[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia - Page 8

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VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 19:20 GMT

#1460

You never said what you think of my post regarding Prom's "attacking" sandroba.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 19:21 GMT

#1461

On January 24 2014 05:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
Gonzaw you say Prom went after Foolish but here he calls Foolish townie

Show nested quote +

On January 23 2014 00:52 Promethelax wrote:

On January 22 2014 07:19 Foolishness wrote:
Here's what I think is going on this game.

There are quite a few questionable people in this game, but by eliminating some obvious town players things start to make more sense.

Towniest of towns
Hapa
VE
Kitaman

Hapa is by far the most town person in this game? Why, put simply if you read his filter he is here, he is active and he is pushing pro-town agendas. This is seen because he is generating conversation, trying to organize the town and get everyone on the same page, and questioning suspicious players where appropriate. This is not a matter of debate if you have read the thread.

Kitaman is similar in matter and this has already been brought to light by a few players. Actually when I started reading the game yesterday his posting reminded me a lot of myself. Slight trolly attitude to try to get things moving, but when push came to shove he was there to call people out on their shit. Now, if you want to read into that and say, "But Foolishness, Kitaman is usually a strong analyzer, posting paragraphs of information and analysis about a person's behavior and actions" I got nothing to say back about that yet. Though I'm sure time will confirm what I think here.

The thing with VE is that yes, on his own some of his posts are suspicious. This one in particular made me raise an eyebrow:
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 22 2014 01:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Morning guys. Marv no, I don't think it's the same kind of Prome that I'm used to seeing. What it reminds me of is that game I was the mayor and lynched the piss out of Prome D1. He was a lurky little shit that game, but I caught him on something very similar to what I noticed this game. Like I think it's awful that I have to ask this, but did you read my post on him?

That being said, I at least dig one of his targets. I asked Foolish about his thoughts on this same matter and what I got is "lol you and Hapa townies" which is definitely NOT what I was after. He answered my question as if he'd read the exchange between us, but left me with a feeling that he hadn't actually read anything at all.

If I see one more person say they're going to ignore my posts, I won't be responsible for the outcome. You have been warned.

where the first two paragraphs seem really out of place and forced, though the last two sentences of the post read very town.

However I think if you just read through his filter and analyze it as a whole there's nothing to be afraid of. Is he pushing any sort of mafia agenda? No. Does it feel like he doesn't have the town's best interest in mind? No. Does it feel like he's actually trying to figure things out? Yes.

Now I can see why some people have shed some suspicion on him (unlike anyone calling Hapa or Kita mafia), but he just does not feel mafia, and he's definitely interested in the game.

Questionable players
Austin
sandroba

marvellosity
Holyflare
Gonzaw

This is roughly in order of most to least town. Austin and sandroba might as well be afk until 3 pages ago, but since coming to the thread both have had strong appearances. I'm okay with them right now because they have brought things to the thread, and it is also obvious that if they continue their activity then they are town. If they keep going afk for long periods of time then start to worry. But I don't feel like that will happen.

The following 3 people are all in the ? category. Marvellosity and Holyflare in particular because for all that they have said I don't feel they have really contributed much. Even as I'm writing this I'm thinking back, "what has marvellosity or holyflare done this game", and I cannot remember a single post they have made. That's a bad sign. Anything mafia indicative off the bat? No so much, but then seem to be here without actually being here.

Gonzaw is only questionable and not mafia because of his recent vote on me. As kitaman properly pointed out, gonzaw brought up a lot of new information about the case on me. That's good and productive. But as he also pointed out, gonzaw just kinda did nothing with it. "Oh here you go I did some research, now don't mind me anymore let me go be trolly and lurk some more" is that kinda vibe I got from that.

mafia
Promethelax
WaveOfShadow

I will go into a little more detail here.

On January 21 2014 10:39 WaveofShadow wrote:
Welp, gonna go with my usual opener.
I think the only difference here is for the first time I'm actually relieved to roll town. I'd be pretty terrified to go up against this town as scum.

One of these days I will have another scumgame; it seems that day is not today.

Holy! Where you at? I've never played a non-voice game with you before. Let's do something.

What about this post is good? He says generic things that anybody can say. Also the "Let's do something" seems incredibly forced. What does he hope to accomplish by saying that? I don't know (most likely he's mafia) and it feels like he's trying very hard to sound like he's vested in the game (when all he would have to do is just post whatever his thoughts are).

And then there's this post as well.

On January 21 2014 11:41 WaveofShadow wrote:

On January 21 2014 11:35 Promethelax wrote:
Okay broskis, this is just silly. We know how to start a game and it isn't this Mafia Scum inspired baseless lynches shall we discuss policy? Why yes we shall because you all will actually have to commit to something.

Since we aren't the run of the mill hokey dory TL types I think its time we set a few ground rules: there should be no discussion of policy lynching lurkers. We simply lynch them. If everyone is good enough to be shadowed everyone is good enough to play the game and we cannot tolerate lurkers.

It is my hope that this particular policy doesn't come into play since, obviously, we are the best that TL has so we should play the best as well and lurking simply isn't the best. We are all good enough to carry a town and I would like us all to be that good this game. Play your hearts out gentlemen.

I would also like a non-aggression pact. That is we all agree to play nice since I'd rather like to be good role models for our newbies.

And yes, I know I'm scummy for posting this, does someone want to come out and say it so that I can defend myself and we can move on with this game and make actual cases on each other and find scum.

Unlike WoS I was excited to roll scum in this game, I figured I'd have an excuse to be steamrolled but if I did a good job it would be a huge accomplishment but no, I'm town, I have to figure things out. I would much rather lie to you all but fuck me, I don't get to lie to you. I gotta work for my money.

So get it together boys, we are policy lynching lurkers, we aren't going to be mean to each other and we are going to catch scum. And we'll start with Hapa making a case on me, why? Because its tradition is why.

I don't think lurkers will be an issue in this game.
I'm really confused by your opener though...you want to discuss policy and then you state right after that you don't want to discuss it? Like...discussion of policy on its own isn't scummy imo but why did you go about it so awkwardly?

I do agree with the non-aggression thing, but no offense---I'd imagine you'd have to be one of the primary people to agree with that (and it seems as though you have?)

Now onto more important details: why specifically Hapa? Do you two have a history?
Is he going to want to make a case on you at all, never mind find something specific in this post of yours in order to make one?

Which fails to do nothing but ask more questions of which he never followed through on (neither of them really followed through on to be honest), when he could do have done something like actively push Promethelax to say something of substance.

The thing about Promethelax is that his first post is a big pile of words and nobody said anything about it besides WoS which was just a passing remark. Here's the post again:
+ Show Spoiler +

Promethelax even admits that his post is awful and that we should call him out on it. Sounds great to me! This kinda bait is definitely a mafia trait and if he thinks he's posting bad then we should definitely lynch him for it. The reason being, if he knows his post his bad why is he making it in the first place? His initial post accomplishes nothing and says nothing and only adds fluff to the thread. I am also bothered by his most recent thread post:

On January 21 2014 22:42 Promethelax wrote:

On January 21 2014 19:25 marvellosity wrote:

On January 21 2014 13:17 VisceraEyes wrote:
It's just one of those things that may or may not end up adding up to something. Prome's thing is worse to me because he literally made up reasoning to respond to me. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. Fluffy? What does that even mean?

You don't think Prome is being typical arch-bullshitter as per usual?

Sometimes it worries me that you and I know each other so well when it comes to this game. Sometimes it makes me warm and fuzzy.

People I don't like:
Foolishness (total lack of justification and his total dismissal of VE/Hapa as townie v townie, both of them are totally capable of what they have done so far as scum and to just not be interested in them at all is scummy)
Kita (said "I don't call people scummy early because it makes people listen to me less later" which isn't true and so totally wired that it rings scummy since I cannot figure out what it gives a town Kita while it does provide some benefit to a scum Kita.)

People who are Gonzaw but haven't posted Gonzaw like posts after fluff o'clock :
Gonzaw

Because all his reads feel very convenient. There is nothing in his filter that gives us new information or his original thoughts.

I'm leaving my vote where it is for now, honestly Promethelax is the best lynch right now because the case on him is the strongest, but I need to hear opinions on WaveOfShadow while we have the time.

Who we are lynching today: Promethelax, WaveOfShadow.

If they died probably not a huge loss: marvellosity, HolyFlare, Gonzaw

Everyone else deserves to live another day at the least.

There isn't much to address in this case. Which is why I got all snarky and called it a 'case' in my earlier post. Fool doesn't like that my early game play was early gmae-ish and, since I have addressed my reasoning for that play and I still believe it was both good and the right play I can't say much about it here.

Yes my first post was bad. It always is. Which is why I'm aware of it. Foolish has played at least one and maybe more games with me and should know that a bad first post is as much my meta as calling VE a butt licker is (I"m sorry WoS! I know I said I'd be nice but I had to slip one in).

I do find Foolish townier from this post since his reads are generally good but his lack of sight when it comes to Gonzaw is worrying. He places Kita and VE waaaaaay too high and Gonzaw much too low in a way that has me worried since, as Supersoft once said to me, when you are in a game with a bunch of good players you can tell the scum because he is the one whose reads don't line up with everyone else'.

I also don't see the reason to attack WoS and just as Fool thinks my targets were easy so were his. He went for the lynch d'jour (me) and the one guy he had called scum earlier (WoS). It seems almost too easy a big post and his lack of other contribution means that while he has taken himself off the table as a good lynch he has not in any way convinced me of his townieness.

Show nested quote +

On January 23 2014 07:22 Promethelax wrote:

On January 23 2014 06:03 Foolishness wrote:

On January 23 2014 05:53 WaveofShadow wrote:

On January 23 2014 05:51 Foolishness wrote:

On January 23 2014 05:47 WaveofShadow wrote:

On January 22 2014 07:50 marvellosity wrote:

On January 22 2014 07:45 Hapahauli wrote:

On January 22 2014 07:37 marvellosity wrote:
ok he can stay for now

##unvote

Would this suggest that you agree with Fool's reads, or do you just think his post is a town-tell?

Do you think he's capable of faking those kinds of posts as scum?

I think his post looks reasonable townie and there's a lot of effort. I'm not sure how much i agree with his reads atm
kita lower, prome higher, marv much much higher, WoS ??, gonzaw higher
But his reasoning feels townie - putting me where I am because I'm forgettable, while ego crushing I like it as an angle to take, it's non-routine

i think he's capable of these posts as mafia, especially after the champions game, and the way he made a list at the end was actually eerily similar to how he made lists at the end of those posts :p but overall the meat of it made sense. and he's trying

Yeah...I'm in agreement with a lot of marv stuff from his filter, and the timing at which he posted stuff. One thing that stuck out is the above.
I'm wondering why marv gave me a ??? at that point considering it seems likely he thought I was town before that from his attitude towards me.

Meh..maybe not.
And then this comes after my return

On January 23 2014 02:49 marvellosity wrote:

On January 23 2014 02:43 kitaman27 wrote:

On January 22 2014 22:53 marvellosity wrote:

On January 22 2014 22:49 kitaman27 wrote:
I'd much rather hear who marv is considering voting, rather than defending a player he thinks is town.

Wave looks better, for obvious reasons

Could you expand on this, even if it's brief? I didn't pick up on the obvious reason. Mine read was more based on the lack of anything wrong, rather than an abundance of anything he has done that is helpful.

Also, could you justify your Holyflare vote for me with specifics? You mention that you thought gonzaw's points were good. Is that what you're going by or is the vote mostly due to his absence from the thread?

I currently don't have a strong preference between sandroba and Holyflare and it seems like sandroba hasn't been inspired to rejoin the thread. I'll vote with you for the time being.

##Unvote
##Vote Holyflare

Wave is waffling earnestly at length as I'd expect him to. Although he's only got one scumgame, I'd very much expect him to be more direct than he has been if mafia. I've been suspicious of him in two reasonably recent games for being slow and waffly (##, LXIV) and now it just seems it's how he opens day 1 as town. So maybe not obvious after all. I just think his thought process is transparent. Like he's posted a lot of his thought process, where's his agenda?

Mainly with Holy that he seems angrier than was justified. But most of all it's the constant niggling at Hapa, especially with his last post(s) when Hapa was by a large margin the towniest guy in the thread. It's just not natural at all. Tbh I don't make a massive amount of his absence, I believe he'd be here posting as either alignment, so not that alignment indicative.

I guess I expect marv to know...I dunno...more about me? Maybe why I was shocked he found me scummy in those games because I don't believe i've shifted my meta all that much in between games, and town-marv always seems to find me town eventually for all the right reasons.

Yeah....would not lynch, but marv you left me high and dry---our palaver did not quench my thirst for you this game. (And it's basically become tradition at this point)

I'm not upset with any of Marv's individual posts, but his overall play so far.

There's a lot of 'overall play' I'm disappointed with atm, Prome included to some degree.
Does it make those people scum?

No, but Marvellosity is known for getting things done on day 1.

I keep wanting to think you are town but you come up with bullshit like this that isn't even remotely true. I cannot believe that town foolishness actually believes these things as they are not remotely true.

##unvote
##vote: foolishness

I simply cannot connect the idea of foolishness being a good town player and him being town while saying things so blatantly false about so many players in this game.

...here is where he actually votes for Foolish...

Show nested quote +

...here is where he's all about a HolyFlare lynch, and places him on his lynch list AHEAD of Foolish, where his vote is presently...

Show nested quote +

...here is even more consideration of others besides Foolish, in this case a semi-lurker...

There are a few posts here where he starts looking at sand....

Show nested quote +

...and here he ranks fool likelier scum than sand. Yet his VOTE ended up on Sand. Saying "He went after Fool, they obviously not a scumteam noob LOLOLOLOL" is.....unfair. Grossly.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 19:23 GMT

#1462

Like, and he was last on the wagon - whether it was a minute or 10 minutes, he voted last on the wagon and was NOT the hammer vote on sandroba.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 19:40 GMT

#1469

On January 23 2014 03:08 Holyflare wrote:
I don't get why people are picking up on me attacking hapa who "looked towny", he had contradictions in a thought process that I picked up on and questioned.

Either way, I apologise for my lack of playing this game. I fully expected to be able to contribute time but my circumstances changed on the day the game started and so each and every single one of my posts has been posted from my phone, I was just picking up on points that I thought were contradictary and the such, no "aggression" is intended it's just how I post (Hogwarts I got called out for being aggressive as scum so there is no way I would ever try and look like that in a game again as scum).

Either way, my initial read was on gonzaw being scummy because of his time allocation, that subsequently changed based on his responses and although I mention the repeated bastardisation and misconstruing of my posts that increasingly (as he kept doing it and still is) looks more and more like a tunneled towny and so I used my time to defend myself from him so as to divulge my thought processes and vindicate myself to the person that I think is towny (from the people that I have focused on). I thought hapa was looking scummy because of his contradictions but his response to me made me back off of that.

I can't delve into quotes and things like I normally would but please please look at when gonzaw posted that "case" (that I said was heavily misconstrued) on me. The responses that meekly followed that said "yeh, that's true" and "hmmm yeh I can see that" should be heavily scrutinised as they were, like was just said, not backed up by votes.

Like I said at the start, you shouldn't let people who get better later "sandroba AND foolishness (although he has posted now)" sit back, they should be entirely pressured. Sandroba even went so far as to get a good ++ (I think?) from foolishness??? despite his less than 1 page filter with nothing contributary in.

Either way, I've asked to be subbed out so have fun.

This is Holy's last content post. I very seriously doubt that, as scum, his last act was to bus Sandroba before replacing out.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 19:41 GMT

#1470

On January 25 2014 04:36 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

the thing is, if foolishness is mafia that explains why he didn't vote Sandro despite being a very shady explanation. If Sandro and Foolish are mafia together Foolish has nothing to lose, it's either him or Sandro to get lynched, might as well just do nothing and hope that in the confusion of voteswitches Prome (assuming he's town) gets into a more favoreable position to be lynched.

If Prom however is mafia as well, so saying it's Sand - Foolish - Prom, that unwillingness from Foolish to vote Sand makes no sense whatsoever. He has nothing to get out of not voting Sand except for a 1-1 trade with Sand which doesn't change a thing for him. Voting Sand however gives him the chance to get some towncred out of it and he WAS around, he could have certaintly voted Sand.

It just doesn't make sense if Prom and Foolish are both mafia.

This makes sense to me. Thank you Toad.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 19:48 GMT

#1473

On January 25 2014 04:45 gonzaw wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 25 2014 04:40 VisceraEyes wrote:

This is Holy's last content post. I very seriously doubt that, as scum, his last act was to bus Sandroba before replacing out.

Hmmm.
What made you think that he was scum earlier? You know, when you voted him.
Is this the only reason that made you change your mind about him since then?

I'll tell you but you're not going to like it, but please refrain from going "SEEE I KNEW IT SCUUUUMMMMMMM!!!!"

I was in the process of making dinner and was ATTEMPTING to get in on the shenannies. It was at the part where I was waiting for oil to heat up so I had a couple of minutes so I came back, saw your case on him, was like "Ehhhh that's reasonable enough I guess" and voted for him. Then he requested replacement so I was like "Well fuck, I guess Foolish it is then" and then the oil was heated up. I tried to come back a couple of times (interactions with Prome, one of the other leading candidates and a person of interest specifically to me) but never made it back to actually join in the fun. Once the oil is heated up it's frying time.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 19:49 GMT

#1474

I was making porkchops.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 20:06 GMT

#1478

Have you ever prepared a meal for an entire family and consumed it and cleaned up in LESS than 5 hours? If so hat's off to you I guess, but it takes time for me to do shit. The oil was heating up at the time of my vote. What do you want me to say?

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 20:08 GMT

#1479

On January 25 2014 04:53 kitaman27 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I think I need proof. Please provide a sample so that I can verify.

Is it bad that I went to see if there are leftovers I could picture? Alas there weren't, VE's cooking OP.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 22:08 GMT

#1486

On January 25 2014 04:29 kitaman27 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Do you think it's likely that scum sandroba moved the lynch from 2-3 to 3-3 onto a scum Prom?

I mean if it was his last act in the game then I don't see why not - especially if you're talking about the 2-3 vote being onto prom, as if this is plurality lynch then the other guy would have been voted off anyway.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 22:12 GMT

#1490

On January 25 2014 07:12 marvellosity wrote:

Show nested quote +

the point is, Foolishness exists

I don't get your point. I'm not allowed to think both Prom and Foolish are scum.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 22:15 GMT

#1495

I have a general idea of how they went down. I know Foolish was up for lynch, and Prom and sand both were possibilities. I was thinking about switching to Prom but felt like Foolish was manipulating me and so I stayed on Foolish.

Like, it just seems like people are putting WAAAAY too much stock into VCA. That hardly ever happens here, and I'm starting to see why.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 22:16 GMT

#1499

Not that I think they're meaningless, but I know that at least I'm town and I wasn't here and my vote was NOT on the scum lynch so it's at least going to be a little inaccurate FMP.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 22:19 GMT

#1503

On January 25 2014 07:17 kitaman27 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'd expect him to read it at some point due to the need to see if cases against him are legitimate, but if he is using his time on other stuff I'd not entirely concerned.

If he's town then how can the cases against him be legitimate?

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 22:20 GMT

#1505

Like, presumably he knows his own alignment, why can he not just be confident enough in his own ability to look townie without having to answer for the Holy cases?

I don't know, if he's scum it's not because he didn't read Holy's filter imo.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 22:22 GMT

#1507

The difference is that WileE recanted his claim. He's no longer a claimed Named VT, he's now a claimed Vanilla Townie.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 22:22 GMT

#1508

Motherfuck.

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 22:27 GMT

#1511

But the principal is the same marv - you're telling me that a townToad who knows he's town and knows that Holyflare is town could NOT read the thread and anytime he sees a Holyflare post say "Welp no scum here, moving on" and just not read the post?

Are we talking about the same Toad?

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 22:27 GMT

#1513

On January 25 2014 07:27 kitaman27 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Is there a reason you find it necessary to say this so many times?

Because if I say it enough people might finally believe me!

VisceraEyes

United States21170 Posts

January 24 2014 22:30 GMT

#1518

On January 25 2014 07:29 kitaman27 wrote:
I got excited because you used the phrase 10 times between Mad Men and Nomination as mafia, with most of the town games using only once, but then I came across The Game which you used it a bajillion times and actually were town.

I was also being unfairly called scum by Ace for something I'd only do as town.

OH SHIT I'M BEING UNFAIRLY CALLED SCUM BY GONZAW FOR SOMETHING I'D ONLY DO AS TOWN IN THIS GAME!!

Kita, you're my hero! ^^

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