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On January 22 2014 09:22 Foolishness wrote:
All my posts and every word I write has a distinct purpose. I don't have time to waste.
I hope you have some more time to waste on me, because I'm keeping my vote on you until I'm convinced you are town or that someone else is more likely scum than you. You could try expanding more on Holy for example, maybe with new stuff that makes you think he's scum.
You can also start by answering some of the stuff I asked you about (those which you haven't answered already).
W need Prome and WOS in here...
...and VE. Where the hell did VE go?
I'm not entirely sure where you guys get your town read on him. He's, at best, unreadable to me. Can't really figure out how some of you can get that much of a town read on him.
Hapa, marv, etc, can you back some of your stuff up with posts from his previous games or something perhaps?
For example, this...
On January 22 2014 08:27 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 13:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
I think if he's town he's biased and it's bullshit to be so biased already, but whatever. It makes him more likely to be scum to me, but no, I'm reading him as town presently. This is a mentality spot on for a townie who thinks he's being unfairly tunneled. Very genuine, and something I'd expect from a town VE.
...doesn't really convince me.
For instance, ever since this post ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=15#293 ) he hasn't had a single suspicion on anybody, yet had 1 more page in his filter of posts (he backs out of his Prome scum read)
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Holy's defense almost convinced me to stop pushing him.
But....some stuff still doesn't make sense. The "story" he's weaven seems consistent perhaps, but still doesn't make sense overall. Why "tunnel" me like that? Like he fixates on me for quite a while when I (imo) made a reasonable case on Foo (or at least enough justification for me going against him) and clearly said I couldn't read the thread (cause I was at work).
His Hapa stuff still doesn't make sense, how the hell can you have that kind of reaction to this "lovely pro town hapa" that's clearly faulty.
He defends Foolishness over and over even when he posts stuff about him that's suspicious (like the first part of this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=16#318 ).
He doesn't mention anything about anybody else. No WOS, no Prome, no sandro, no austin, no VE, etc. Nothing. He just "tunneled" Hapa, went against me, and is now defending himself. He hasn't contributed anything else at all
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On January 22 2014 09:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm here, what's the beef Gonzaw? Where have I backed out of my Prom scumread?
On January 22 2014 01:38 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 11:47 Promethelax wrote:On January 21 2014 11:41 Hapahauli wrote:
Or rather, it is policy, but certainly not discussion. You got so close to making that case on me. So close. And yet so far. It is policy and we could discuss it, I just assume no one will disagree with it so there is no discussion which will stem from it. The discussion comes from me posting things which you can call me town on or base a case on. That is what generates discussion, not policy we all agree on. Since you are, so far, the only person interrogating people on the shit they post I'm choosing to believe you are town for the moment. Since I am town that means you and I shall discuss other people. In this case VE and this post: On January 21 2014 11:22 VisceraEyes wrote:
If we're talking meta, pressure won't mean anything to sandroba. He'll either play or he won't, and if he's town he'll probably find some scum. People like kita voting for him as a joke will probably not pressure him as much as you seem to think. You see VE knows how to say things. But this post doesn't say things. This post, when the fluff is removed says that we should let Sandroba do his own thing because no matter what he'll do his own thing and that Sandroba may or may not catch scum. It shows such a lack of curiosity that I am disturbed. Do you, Hapa, agree? y/n? Will you go on a date with me y/n? This was a terrible reasoning for suspecting me in the first place, but to be fair it looks like a conversation starter more than an actual accusation, which can and does come from both alignments. However as a conversation starter, I do notice a distinct lack of calling me scummy or suspicious, only "disturbing". Could be benign icebreaking, or malicious doubt-weaving. Who can be so sure so early? I think it's suspicious because I think the rest of his play following this has been suspicious to me.
This, coupled with you never mentioning Prome again, can only logically make me think you backed out of your Prome scumread.
If you didn't.....wtf are you doing then?
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You posted quite a few times, and you are here right now and when you posted earlier.
You are content in doing nothing until he comes back? That doesn't seem too townie VE.
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On January 22 2014 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
I can't recall ever seeing gonzaw as scum either.
You mean except those 3 times we played together and I was scum and you town?
Well VE, we have 3 scum among us in a pretty insane ratio (almost 40% of players are scum), and we are struggling to find even a single one to lynch right now. Do you want to give us reasons for making that guy you?
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So VE, WOS, is Foo's entrance the Return of the Jedi, or the Revenge of the Sith?
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On January 22 2014 10:18 VisceraEyes wrote:
Good things and bad things happened in both of those movies. What are you asking gonzaw? I still find Foolishness a little suspicious, but think that Prome is a better lynch right now.
Dunno, it sounded good in my head
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That's unfair, I never appear on the left side of those pairs!
I demand an explanation!
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I appear at the left side of the pairs! F*** you WOS I beat you!
Anyways.....lol? Dunno how to react kita, seems everybody is throwing new guys into the lynch table each minute
Although I was almost going to joke about sandro lurking his way into victory as scum or something before lol.
....meh.
I was going to say "I'll wait till Prome gets here and contributes", but I know exactly what he'll do. He'll jump on your case and lynch the lurker sandro, based on his "we policy lynch the lurker no matter what" thing.
You seem to not mention Holy, why is that?
Speaking of marv, I see him playing like he did in MTG Mini Mafia 2. His inaction makes you want to think "He's not lynching the whole scumteam, so he must be scum no matter what", but well....he's just lazy town marv likely, like in that game.
Apparently serious marv plays as FiveTouch, but lazy marv plays as "marvellosity".
Considering that previous experience with him (where he was like 1HP from dying before the game ended), well....I'd like you to check that game out (or just take that knowledge into account) and tell me if it changes your read on him or not.
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I'm still not convinced on Foo's posts. A "big meaty post" is not what makes Foolishness town, in any of the games he plays in, in my mind.
More recently, he didn't act like it in Personality 2, and didn't in Liar Game either. I.e Foo is not the scummy guy who revindicates himself with that big post. At least that's the picture I get from reading his filter those games.
Like Hapa said, "big meaty posts" can and usually do (even if it was just once) come from scum Foo instead.
His second post "seemed" townie...but then again he just sheeped my Holy read, and biffle-waffled on WOS a little bit.
It's also pretty funny how he says something like this...
On January 22 2014 09:22 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 08:00 gonzaw wrote:I thought my previous sexy posts already made me town by then kita  Hmm, okay, I think we might get a little bit off track with all the discussions, questions, and shit going on. Personally, I want these: 1)Foolishness to do something more (I'm not very much convinced by his post. I read the Champion's Game as well marv). Notice how there's a lack of defense for his "horrible" posts. 2)Get some consensus on Holy based on what I posted 3)I guess some real talk about who to lynch this D1, not just fleeting questions and suspicions. All my posts and every word I write has a distinct purpose. I don't have time to waste.
...yet he makes posts like this:
On January 21 2014 15:45 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 15:43 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 21 2014 15:41 Foolishness wrote:On January 21 2014 10:39 WaveofShadow wrote:
Welp, gonna go with my usual opener.
I think the only difference here is for the first time I'm actually relieved to roll town. I'd be pretty terrified to go up against this town as scum.
One of these days I will have another scumgame; it seems that day is not today.
Holy! Where you at? I've never played a non-voice game with you before. Let's do something.
This game just got a whole lot easier. ##Vote: WaveOfShadow o.O Welp, don't know what to make of that, so I'ma ignore it for now. Welcome to the game Foolishness? Wait. Wait. If you are going to ignore it, why did you respond to it?
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On January 22 2014 13:28 gonzaw wrote:
You seem to not mention Holy, why is that?
Nevermind I don't know how to read apparently.
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Im at work.
Seems well likely rush into a lynch candidate 20 minutes before deadline if this continues.
So marvy, are you so convinced Foo is town because of his posts? If so could you try to convince me of it?
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Id expect town foo to not make horrible unfounded one liners to then afk for example, and to be a little more engaged with the thread...other than just making those 2 posts.
Hell you can even compare it to sandro, who at least engaged the thread a little bit wven if he lurks
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Well...yeah i think sandro looks better than Foo (i mean im voting foo not sandro lol)
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Although Prome is looking worse by the minute by not showimg up.
Maybe we should follow his advice and policy lymch him?
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Kay I'm back.
Arg, now Prome reads town to me. What to do what to do.
Also kind of forgot austin was playing this game, I'm eager to see his lynch push of the day.
There's something weirdly interesting about the Holy issue. It seems contradictory in a sense.
First, okay, yes, he did scummy shit; but that's irrelevant to my point. What happened, is that basically everybody is suspicious of him or accusing him. Not a single soul is defending him.
I counted myself, marv, kita, Prome, Hapa and Foo basically saying "yeh he likely scum", and nobody else is defending him, just saying "I dunno" or "maybe I could vote for him".
It's weird, in the sense....that if he's scum somebody would defend him, right? But then comes the other interesting part: he has not a single vote on him.
I mean, think about it. I basically straight up called him scum. Hapa too. kita now does too. Foo said "Gonzaw's catch on Holyflare's contradiction is really damning and I'm almost ready to pull the trigger just on that". Prome agreed with Hapa and mentioned other stuff. Yet, not a single one of those (myself included) put a vote on him yet. Not only that, not a single one of the other people "not sure" or whatever put a vote on him either.
I can imagine 2 scenarios: There is scum in those guys I mention, and there is scum in the guys NOT mentioned (like sandro, austin, WOS). If the guys I mentioned are scum, and Holy town, then surely they have an easy target right? They can park their vote on Holy, and be totally fine since 80% of the thread is against Holy (unless they don't want to be the first ones to do it or some shit).
If the other guys I mentioned are scum (or rather, there is scum among them), then wouldn't this also be a good chance to park a vote on Holy? All the town "heavyweights" (who are pushing Holy) agree with a Holy lynch, so if you are austin scum, or WOS scum, or maybe sandro scum, or VE scum, etc, wouldn't you be VERY comfortable parking a vote on him? It's much more easier to pick Holy than to act "clueless town" and basically engage the thread in discussions and the like.
So, why is nothing like that happening?
I think this can make it more likely Holy is scum, based on how the thread is interacting with him. That would make sense, the townies find him scummy, and the scum are slightly bussing him (since Holy isn't even voted yet), or leaving the door open to bus him (if, for instance, VE or WOS are scum).
I'll see what you guys think. I think a Holy lynch might actually be a good D1 lynch....but then again I think a D1 Foo lynch seems good too, and I don't want to "save" a scum Foolishness from today's lynch (if he is indeed scum).
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Actually, coming back to Foolishness, another funny thing:
On January 22 2014 07:19 Foolishness wrote:
Gonzaw is only questionable and not mafia because of his recent vote on me. As kitaman properly pointed out, gonzaw brought up a lot of new information about the case on me. That's good and productive. But as he also pointed out, gonzaw just kinda did nothing with it. "Oh here you go I did some research, now don't mind me anymore let me go be trolly and lurk some more" is that kinda vibe I got from that.
I wanted Foo to clarify this, but since he didn't (figure that out), I'll just basically guess what he means, on basically the only thing that makes sense for him to think.
So, I called Foo scum, but didn't vote him until later right? Foolishness mentions that I was mafia to him, until I voted. I can only take this means that he finds it very scummy that someone accuses someone else, but doesn't vote him, and just keeps talking about shit.
So far so good? Okay
Now we come back to these:
On January 22 2014 09:22 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 07:42 marvellosity wrote:
Foolish I'm curious if you've looked at any of WoS's meta at all? Yes I did that yesterday when I first accused him. However I did not find anything really damning on that front. He's only had one game as mafia here and there weren't any glaring similarities to that. For example, when WoS was mafia he swore a ton (just skim through his posts and you will see that) but when he's town that kind of attitude is absent. Also feels like he might be slightly more trolly when he's mafia. I'm still suspicious of him and want to clear the air on him now and not later because as I said in my previous posts he made a lot of generic statements and had opportunities to answer questions and instead only gave more questions to the thread. And a part of me does feel that his interaction with Promethelax says that at most one of them is mafia. I may be reading into that too much. Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 08:00 gonzaw wrote:I thought my previous sexy posts already made me town by then kita Hmm, okay, I think we might get a little bit off track with all the discussions, questions, and shit going on. Personally, I want these: 1)Foolishness to do something more (I'm not very much convinced by his post. I read the Champion's Game as well marv). Notice how there's a lack of defense for his "horrible" posts. 2)Get some consensus on Holy based on what I posted 3)I guess some real talk about who to lynch this D1, not just fleeting questions and suspicions. All my posts and every word I write has a distinct purpose. I don't have time to waste. At this moment I feel that Promethelax or HolyFlare should be lynched today. Gonzaw's catch on Holyflare's contradiction is really damning and I'm almost ready to pull the trigger just on that. HolyFlare's defense did feel a bit contrived and forced? He did bring up some good points but at the same time I don't feel like he said all that much. That may just be confirmation bias at this point though. I had HolyFlare on my question mark list since yesterday because as I said it felt like he was here posting but I couldn't remember anything he did and that is troublesome. Gonzaw I brought my arguments against you when you brought forth the analysis against me and I still stand by what I said. However I would not lynch you since you are actually here and posting and bring new information to the thread (and not just information about Holyflare either). There's no reason to doubt your alignment at this point especially if this posting rate keeps up. Same with Austin as well. I still stand by that marvellosity is a big mystery this game. He's not our lynch today but everyone should have at least one eye on him.
It's funny how he thought I was almost mafia for not putting my vote on him (i.e I was mafia until I did vote him, then I became less suspicious), yet he's doing exactly the same thing.
Here is his vote, if you remember:
On January 21 2014 15:41 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 10:39 WaveofShadow wrote:
Welp, gonna go with my usual opener.
I think the only difference here is for the first time I'm actually relieved to roll town. I'd be pretty terrified to go up against this town as scum.
One of these days I will have another scumgame; it seems that day is not today.
Holy! Where you at? I've never played a non-voice game with you before. Let's do something.
This game just got a whole lot easier. ##Vote: WaveOfShadow
He says he wants Prome and/or Holy lynched, yet his vote is from 18 hours ago on a guy he biffle-waffles and doesn't even want lynched.
Yet he himself apparently thinks that is a mafia trait, since he used that argument against me (again, I'm assuming that's what he meant by his "scumread" on me). Scummy contradiction much?
...can we please lynch him? Pretty please? :3
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On January 23 2014 02:36 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 02:29 gonzaw wrote:
Kay I'm back.
Arg, now Prome reads town to me. What to do what to do.
Also kind of forgot austin was playing this game, I'm eager to see his lynch push of the day.
There's something weirdly interesting about the Holy issue. It seems contradictory in a sense.
First, okay, yes, he did scummy shit; but that's irrelevant to my point. What happened, is that basically everybody is suspicious of him or accusing him. Not a single soul is defending him.
I counted myself, marv, kita, Prome, Hapa and Foo basically saying "yeh he likely scum", and nobody else is defending him, just saying "I dunno" or "maybe I could vote for him".
It's weird, in the sense....that if he's scum somebody would defend him, right? But then comes the other interesting part: he has not a single vote on him.
I mean, think about it. I basically straight up called him scum. Hapa too. kita now does too. Foo said "Gonzaw's catch on Holyflare's contradiction is really damning and I'm almost ready to pull the trigger just on that". Prome agreed with Hapa and mentioned other stuff. Yet, not a single one of those (myself included) put a vote on him yet. Not only that, not a single one of the other people "not sure" or whatever put a vote on him either.
I can imagine 2 scenarios: There is scum in those guys I mention, and there is scum in the guys NOT mentioned (like sandro, austin, WOS). If the guys I mentioned are scum, and Holy town, then surely they have an easy target right? They can park their vote on Holy, and be totally fine since 80% of the thread is against Holy (unless they don't want to be the first ones to do it or some shit).
If the other guys I mentioned are scum (or rather, there is scum among them), then wouldn't this also be a good chance to park a vote on Holy? All the town "heavyweights" (who are pushing Holy) agree with a Holy lynch, so if you are austin scum, or WOS scum, or maybe sandro scum, or VE scum, etc, wouldn't you be VERY comfortable parking a vote on him? It's much more easier to pick Holy than to act "clueless town" and basically engage the thread in discussions and the like.
So, why is nothing like that happening?
I think this can make it more likely Holy is scum, based on how the thread is interacting with him. That would make sense, the townies find him scummy, and the scum are slightly bussing him (since Holy isn't even voted yet), or leaving the door open to bus him (if, for instance, VE or WOS are scum).
I'll see what you guys think. I think a Holy lynch might actually be a good D1 lynch....but then again I think a D1 Foo lynch seems good too, and I don't want to "save" a scum Foolishness from today's lynch (if he is indeed scum). I agree with what you said above and below the line ##Vote: Holyflarewhat now?
EHmm...we lynch Foolishness? 
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I dunno actually, I'm in some sort of standby. I think my own argument up there is convincing, and if Foo wasn't in this game with my read on him I'd have voted Holy a long time ago.
But then again, there is Foo, who is not doing anything to make me think he's town. I also have this "urge" to always catch a scum Foo.
Like, in Obs QT and the like, I catch a scum Foo, but everybody else in the game ignores him. Then I yell at them "BUT HES OBVIOUS SCUM WHY DO YOU KEEP HIM ALIVE!?". I have that same feeling of "catching" him, albeit slightly less (mostly because he has done less and made less posts and the game isn't fully developed).
I don't want to be hypocrite, and let a scum Foo live until LYLO or some shit, when I KNOW I want to lynch scum Foo right now.
But maybe it isn't optimal town play perhaps...I dunno.
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On January 23 2014 02:42 marvellosity wrote:
Optimal townplay is simply lynching mafia, don't overthink that shiz
how much is "slightly less"? actually slightly less? no sarcastic response, you earned such a question :p
Well, the more you guys give Foo town reads, tell me he's a bad lynch, or basically stalk me for going against him (looking at you Holy), the less sure I get
@kita: You have the strange habit of "sheeping" reads and votes, without actually addressing the reasons you are sheeping them?
marv agrees with my post, I mentioned a reason for Holy being scum. You sheep marv...but you don't care about that post I made, which is basically what made marv vote Holy just now?
Something similar happened with your vote on Foolishness. marv voted Foo because he made a horrible unexplained vote and entrance. Then you sheep marv as well, but ignore that fact, and spout some other stuff about activity
What gives?
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EPT
