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Huh, that last Holy post seems eerily genuine, and makes good points I guess. Hmm.
What I'm still not really convinced is this
However, you don't try and rationalise it as a townie that is under attack and just has no time to play
I think I can get that stuff, but after I made my "case". Before that I don't really get it. I.e your actions and stuff.
Yes, I read your previous games and instantly saw it's be pointless since your play is different here. Here you are indeed more "focused", and post less, etc, than in either your previous town or scum cases.
It does make sense you have little time to play in this game (so makes your previous games irrelevant). But the real question is: are you a scum with little time to play, or a townie with little time to play?
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EBWOP:
Yes, I read your previous games and instantly saw it's be pointless since your play is different here. Here you are indeed more "focused", and post less, etc, than in either your previous town or scum games.
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Holy, can you vote Foolishness before leaving? :3
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On January 23 2014 04:03 gonzaw wrote:
Hmm, I actually thought him getting replaced would actually force our hand into lynching him, not letting him go. Why do you guys think the opposite?
From my perspective, that post of his right now basically means he won't post anymore. He won't contribute anymore, nothing. We can't get any info whatsoever from him or his spot until after D1 ends. That would be different if he was just AFK, where we do get info (i.e he's lurking), or if he comes back and does anything else. By having so many suspicions on him, town sentiment against him, by straight up doing that he forces us to lynch him without a second thought, or completely ignore him from now on.
However, if we do the 2nd one, it'd introduce way too much chaos into town, specially if there is not much time before the day ends. Town would have to find new suspects and lynch candidates, etc. It opens a weak spot for scum to influence the lynch or for us to straight up fuck up. Doesn't that basically mean, that we have to lynch him?
With Holy we know we're getting someone new and that person has the opportunity to completely turn around Holy's image. If that can avoid a mislynch, then great, otherwise if he is mafia, then his replacement can be lynched. I found a few things scummy about Holy's play, but most of my final decision was going to come down to his future posts. If we know they're not coming, I don't think it warrants a lynch.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of individuals that are wait and see with the lynch coming closer. I certainly shouldn't be leading the vote right now. That's for sure.
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Back and in the procress of catching up. Two posts that caught my eye (before I get to the last page)
On January 23 2014 02:55 marvellosity wrote:
yuh huh. you've been giving me the jeebies all game. but you're too active to lynch today in the end.
Agreed. I also sort of saw something in your read of me.
##Unvote
On January 23 2014 02:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't know man, the catchup posts seemed disingenuous, but I'm afraid I'm biased. Based on the posts I'm more willing to admit that I could be wrong about Prome, and yes the alternatives are looking better.
The thing about Prome is that there's no POP to his posts - when he's town, when he thinks he's found something suspicious something clicks and his confidence shoots up and you can see it in his posts. I didn't get that feeling when he was posting about you. But again, I'm not sure how much of it is my own bias speaking.
Foolishness/Sandroba/HolyFlare are three targets who are, in my opinion, well equipped to prove their worth D1 if they're town. That none of them has been able to do this is troubling to me.
My problem with Prome as well is contained in here (regarding the POP, as well as the other players who should have...done more?), but I do feel good about the stream-of-consciousness reads as he caught up. I don't feel he was disingenuous.
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Vote Count - Deadline at Wednesday, Jan 22 10:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
Foolishness (2): VisceraEyes, gonzaw, marvellosity, kitaman27, gonzaw
WaveOfShadow (1): Foolishness
Kitaman27 (1): Promethelax, WaveofShadow
HolyFlare (1): marvellosity, kitaman27, gonzaw VisceraEyes
Promethelax (0): VisceraEyes
Sandroba (0): kitaman27, kitaman27
Hapahauli (0): VisceraEyes
VisceraEyes (0): Hapahauli, kitaman27
Not voted (6): Austinmcc, Sandroba, HolyFlare, Haupahauli, kitaman27, WaveofShadow
If you notice a mistake, please let us know!
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On January 23 2014 04:01 austinmcc wrote:WoS, you around? Gonzaw, I don't think we can be sure what nobody defending HolyFlare means, but I think in the bigger context of this game, we can't get too much from that. Nobody is defending Foolishness either (I might, yeah, think I will), nobody really popped up to defend WoS or Prome while they were getting more attention, and for the most part it's people dropping off "x is scummy" after they've posted more, not actively pushing "WoS or Prome super town." Just not a ton of defending this game in general, imo. Gonzaw, 2 question to start off since you're active right now. Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 03:10 gonzaw wrote:
You know, I'm kind of serious with this Foolishness stuff. Does any one of you have anything to say about him?
Basically:
1)Voting WOS, wanting to lynch other guys, but never change his vote and goes AFK
2)Seeming contradiction, since he almost thought I was scummy scum because I "did" something similar
3)People seemed to find him town because they agreed with him. But right now, apparently town sentiment against WOS and Prome dropped, so what makes that post of him townie now?
4)Remember the time he made a horrible entrance to the game making a scummy vote, pointless post and unfounded reads? You keep poking at Foolishness's past games. Do these things, dinky votes, horrible entrances, pointless posts, fit with scum Foolish? Also, honest question, if someone did these things vs did NOTHING, no votes, no real posts to be scummy or townie, etc, which player would you find scummier?
austin, it's not time for you to make pointless questions to me + Show Spoiler +really? Why would I explicitly make that meta case against him, and explicitely MENTION THE POSTS THEMSELVES, if I didn't think the "scummy vote, pointless post and unfounded reads" makes him scum Foo? Have you read my posts at all?
You've been waffling around ever since I remember austin. I'm not comfortable with that.
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Not the tone - the act itself. Like, if he were town I feel like rather than do a stream of consciousness thing, he would read and have actual suspicions and post those.
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On January 23 2014 04:01 austinmcc wrote:WoS, you around? Gonzaw, I don't think we can be sure what nobody defending HolyFlare means, but I think in the bigger context of this game, we can't get too much from that. Nobody is defending Foolishness either (I might, yeah, think I will), nobody really popped up to defend WoS or Prome while they were getting more attention, and for the most part it's people dropping off "x is scummy" after they've posted more, not actively pushing "WoS or Prome super town." Just not a ton of defending this game in general, imo. Gonzaw, 2 question to start off since you're active right now. Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 03:10 gonzaw wrote:
You know, I'm kind of serious with this Foolishness stuff. Does any one of you have anything to say about him?
Basically:
1)Voting WOS, wanting to lynch other guys, but never change his vote and goes AFK
2)Seeming contradiction, since he almost thought I was scummy scum because I "did" something similar
3)People seemed to find him town because they agreed with him. But right now, apparently town sentiment against WOS and Prome dropped, so what makes that post of him townie now?
4)Remember the time he made a horrible entrance to the game making a scummy vote, pointless post and unfounded reads? You keep poking at Foolishness's past games. Do these things, dinky votes, horrible entrances, pointless posts, fit with scum Foolish? Also, honest question, if someone did these things vs did NOTHING, no votes, no real posts to be scummy or townie, etc, which player would you find scummier?
Yup. What's cookin'?
Random unrelated thoughts:
I'm bothered by the fact that I'm not bothered by marv this game. Every game I've ever played with him he's been town and I often don't trust him for a while before he calls me dumb and then I do, but this game it hasn't happened. Can't tell if it's because marv is lurkier and done less than usual and/or because he has no need to 'take over' in a game like this with multiple people who can lead.
Regarding the Holy replacement: I REALLY WISH people would not talk about being replaced in thread---it essentially artificially makes us give up what may or may not be a valid lynch target today and messes with the game.
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Does someone feel like lynching austin?
Or at least put him into the lynch table. I mean, nobody wants to lynch Foo, everybody is baffled about lynching Prome or whatever, so why not?
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On January 23 2014 04:19 gonzaw wrote:
Does someone feel like lynching austin?
Or at least put him into the lynch table. I mean, nobody wants to lynch Foo, everybody is baffled about lynching Prome or whatever, so why not?
I'd consider it.
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On January 23 2014 04:15 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 04:01 austinmcc wrote:WoS, you around? Gonzaw, I don't think we can be sure what nobody defending HolyFlare means, but I think in the bigger context of this game, we can't get too much from that. Nobody is defending Foolishness either (I might, yeah, think I will), nobody really popped up to defend WoS or Prome while they were getting more attention, and for the most part it's people dropping off "x is scummy" after they've posted more, not actively pushing "WoS or Prome super town." Just not a ton of defending this game in general, imo. Gonzaw, 2 question to start off since you're active right now. On January 23 2014 03:10 gonzaw wrote:
You know, I'm kind of serious with this Foolishness stuff. Does any one of you have anything to say about him?
Basically:
1)Voting WOS, wanting to lynch other guys, but never change his vote and goes AFK
2)Seeming contradiction, since he almost thought I was scummy scum because I "did" something similar
3)People seemed to find him town because they agreed with him. But right now, apparently town sentiment against WOS and Prome dropped, so what makes that post of him townie now?
4)Remember the time he made a horrible entrance to the game making a scummy vote, pointless post and unfounded reads? You keep poking at Foolishness's past games. Do these things, dinky votes, horrible entrances, pointless posts, fit with scum Foolish? Also, honest question, if someone did these things vs did NOTHING, no votes, no real posts to be scummy or townie, etc, which player would you find scummier? austin, it's not time for you to make pointless questions to me + Show Spoiler +really? Why would I explicitly make that meta case against him, and explicitely MENTION THE POSTS THEMSELVES, if I didn't think the "scummy vote, pointless post and unfounded reads" makes him scum Foo? Have you read my posts at all? , it's time for you to find someone to lynch this D1. You've been waffling around ever since I remember austin. I'm not comfortable with that. Not pointless. You want to lynch Foolishness, either a bunch or to a decent degree.
You've got some problems with his play.
Looking at Parallel Worlds, i do not see the same stuff there as here. scumFoolishness there wasn't trolly, dropping dumb votes, etc. At the very least, I take issue with 1 and 4 above in your summary of bad things about Foolishness. 3 is a perfectly legitimate question for anyone who was townie on Foolishness because of his reads in particular.
I don't want to lynch Foolishness today. The second question is REAL, because I'm looking elsewhere, and I want to talk. This will go somewhere. If nothing else, I'm here and posting and you want that so please answer and let's chat.
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On January 23 2014 04:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Not the tone - the act itself. Like, if he were town I feel like rather than do a stream of consciousness thing, he would read and have actual suspicions and post those.
I disagree. I could swear he's done this specifically as town before (as have I) but I'd have to check which is kind of difficult for me atm. Either way he's given me enough that even were I able to be convinced before his return (which I kinda doubted) I certainly won't be voting him today.
Like I get the we 'expect more' but is it not possible that Prome simply hasn't gotten to his 'POP' case yet? I don't allow this defense for people like Foolishness/Sandroba because they haven't actively been here.
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That post of his is really bad. Total waffle fluff about Holy and WOS, then a completely pointless question. Like really pointless:
Also, honest question, if someone did these things vs did NOTHING, no votes, no real posts to be scummy or townie, etc, which player would you find scummier?
Don't see how me answering this question at this point has any bearing at all with what's going on, and more importantly with what that post he quoted. It's like a fluff question Hapa or WOS would make early D1, not a question you'd make very late D1 when you have so much other stuff to choose from (you can filter dive me to get info if you want), and there is basically no lynch set in stone.
It's some speculative question that doesn't do anything. You want me to answer "Oh, if Hapa did NOTHING, made no votes, no real posts to be scummy or townie, yes he'd be scummier!"? What will you do with that answer?
You keep poking at Foolishness's past games. Do these things, dinky votes, horrible entrances, pointless posts, fit with scum Foolish?
This proves you haven't been reading the thread at all then? This is literally answered in that huge post I made 20 hours ago.
I also don't remember him taking a stance on anybody. I think he FoSed Prome? He FoSed Holy at some point, or he agreed with Hapa's post or something.
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PAGING MARV
Small game, not overly themed. You were shot N1 by Sandroba in the game. Scum team was Sandroba/ShiaoPi/?. I was a watcher, watched you N1, saw Sandroba shoot you. On D2 I tried to buddy up to Sandroba rather than dunk him as mafia. This caused some problems later on in the game for me.
Name that game!
On January 23 2014 04:19 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yup. What's cookin'?
Random unrelated thoughts:
I'm bothered by the fact that I'm not bothered by marv this game. Every game I've ever played with him he's been town and I often don't trust him for a while before he calls me dumb and then I do, but this game it hasn't happened. Can't tell if it's because marv is lurkier and done less than usual and/or because he has no need to 'take over' in a game like this with multiple people who can lead.
Regarding the Holy replacement: I REALLY WISH people would not talk about being replaced in thread---it essentially artificially makes us give up what may or may not be a valid lynch target today and messes with the game. LET US BEGIN TO CHAT! YES? (I will have to pause shortly for an interview thing, but oh well)
Anything OVERTLY scummy from marv, or just the general worry?
I don't share your worry about Foolishness right now, but I do about Sandroba. Working on that, because there are very few scumgames but the town filters I'm reading are much more involved, except generally more involved as far as planning and policy and whatnot is concerned, less him being very involved in reads and discussion (so not perfectly applicable to this game).
The only worry I have on Foolishness is his putting Sandroba up at townie-neutral for getting active, when Sandroba was really just posting on one subject and it wasn't a boatload of new thoughts/info.
Anyway, you should also ask me some questions. I know I only have the one about marv here right now, but poke me!
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On January 22 2014 01:41 gonzaw wrote:(as scum) Again, it doesn't seem that's Foo posting, but another more "trolly" player. He's abrasive, and makes little effort in appearing helpful. He doesn't explain himself, seemingly makes posts without thinking about them beforehand, makes baseless accusations, and basically trolls and goofs around. Pair Liar Game and Personality 2's filters on one hand, and the rest, and you can easily see some differences and similarities. But yes, at some points, town foo can get a little carried away (like in Personality), and at times scum Foo "try-hards" into making fluff posts. But those don't usually happen, and even if they did, you can still get a read on him. Now, when I see posts like these: Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 15:41 Foolishness wrote:On January 21 2014 10:39 WaveofShadow wrote:
Welp, gonna go with my usual opener.
I think the only difference here is for the first time I'm actually relieved to roll town. I'd be pretty terrified to go up against this town as scum.
One of these days I will have another scumgame; it seems that day is not today.
Holy! Where you at? I've never played a non-voice game with you before. Let's do something.
This game just got a whole lot easier. ##Vote: WaveOfShadow Show nested quote +On January 21 2014 15:45 Foolishness wrote:On January 21 2014 15:43 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 21 2014 15:41 Foolishness wrote:On January 21 2014 10:39 WaveofShadow wrote:
Welp, gonna go with my usual opener.
I think the only difference here is for the first time I'm actually relieved to roll town. I'd be pretty terrified to go up against this town as scum.
One of these days I will have another scumgame; it seems that day is not today.
Holy! Where you at? I've never played a non-voice game with you before. Let's do something.
This game just got a whole lot easier. ##Vote: WaveOfShadow o.O Welp, don't know what to make of that, so I'ma ignore it for now. Welcome to the game Foolishness? Wait. Wait. If you are going to ignore it, why did you respond to it? It's not hard to see which one of those two different attitudes it reminds you of. Doesn't explain himself, makes baseless accusations, etc. He also makes some seemingly "casual" response, like the "Wait. Wait" thing. That's not the way I see town Foo posting. It's a small thing, but it does add a sense of "this is wrong" to his post. When Foo starts posting and you get that feeling, he is likely scum.
This literally answers your question austin.
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Austin, let's not chat. Tell me who you want to lynch. We need a lynch, YOU need a lynch (if you are town).
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On January 23 2014 04:32 gonzaw wrote:
Austin, let's not chat. Tell me who you want to lynch. We need a lynch, YOU need a lynch (if you are town).
lol Austin I was actually going to 'ask' you along the lines of the same thing. Who is scum? would be my question.
(As far as marv goes, I don't have anything specific I can pick out from him, so probably 'usual' suspicion. I also haven't looked into him in any detail however)
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On January 23 2014 04:23 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2014 04:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Not the tone - the act itself. Like, if he were town I feel like rather than do a stream of consciousness thing, he would read and have actual suspicions and post those. I disagree. I could swear he's done this specifically as town before (as have I) but I'd have to check which is kind of difficult for me atm. Either way he's given me enough that even were I able to be convinced before his return (which I kinda doubted) I certainly won't be voting him today. Like I get the we 'expect more' but is it not possible that Prome simply hasn't gotten to his 'POP' case yet? I don't allow this defense for people like Foolishness/Sandroba because they haven't actively been here.
That's the thing though, we don't "expect more" we expect actual thoughts and opinions. Having suspicions of someone, and succinctly explaining them, takes actually LESS effort than doing a stream of consciousness catch up thing. It's that I expected LESS. Like, I don't know, it's hard to explain. But I'm not voting for him so ultimately it doesn't matter much.
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EPT
