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[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia - Page 3
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
[b]##unvote ##vote sandroba[b] | ||
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Promethelax
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Promethelax
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Yes. I find sand likelier town than fool but I'm not confident and Gonzaw who has been convincing in his foolish case says he sees sand as scum. | ||
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Promethelax
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Yes you see I had a policy I was hoping not to enact because we are all better than this. You see? But we had to lurker lynch, it ended up being right but I'm pissed at sandroba about it. I wanted a high quality game with crazy good scum and town play. Scum (or anyone else) getting lurker lynched d1 is disappointing to me. | ||
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Promethelax
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On January 23 2014 08:09 kitaman27 wrote: I think the biggest thing to consider is whether or not sandroba was the sacrificial lamb in an attempt to save Prom/Foolishness. I think sand would actually be a better late game scum player than either of us. I don't have a strong scum game and fool doesn't have an excuse to be dumb while sand has had bad town games recently. It wouldn't be a worth while sacrifice. | ||
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Promethelax
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On January 23 2014 09:04 Foolishness wrote: I don't think that's actually possible. Look at the order of events. Starting at this point where there are 6 votes on me and 3 on Promethelax (keep in mind this is 12 minutes before the deadline): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=41#820 The six votes on me are (in order of when they occurred): VisceraEyes, gonzaw, WaveofShadow, Promethelax, marvellosity, Hapahauli. Now there is definitely some analysis to be done on how these votes accumulated on me but I will save that for later. At this point gonzaw started the switch on sandroba. Austin immediately joined in. Now only gonzaw was voting on me so I'm still winning by a landslide. It's possible that they did this thinking there is no way a bandwagon on sandroba would start, but I highly doubt they would have that attitude. That is, entertain the thought for a second that gonzaw/Austin are actually mafia. They could just hammer the vote on me to ensure a town lynch (incredibly easy for gonzaw to do, Austin could just toss his vote on Promethelax or somewhere else). But that didn't happen. Then marvellosity switches his vote as well. At this point I have 4 votes and Promethelax and sandroba both have 3. Hapa and Promethelax also follow shortly after. It's definitely clear that the switch to sandroba was started and enforced by towns. This was not mafia bussing each other. The big question to answer here is: what reason would mafia have for switching off of me onto sandroba? If I'm town, there's definitely no reason to. I'm hovering around 50% of votes (HolyFlare's vote isn't going to count), it'd be so easy to just ensure that I got voted. The only scenario where the mafia would have reason to switch is if I'm also mafia (which isn't true). But that scenario, however absurd, would be reasonable, thinking that I'm more valuable to the mafia than sandroba is at this point. Thus I am in the belief that the votes on sandroba were mostly, if not 100%, town. Including my top suspect Promethelax. This seems to make a lot more sense given how that went down. What does this all mean? Mafia could have ensured I was lynched if they were on the vote switch, so why bother vote switching in the first place? No, mafia did not vote switch. What's more likely is that the mafia were voting for me but not on the switch (VE, WoS) or the mafia were all voting for Promethelax (me, sandroba, kitaman). Note that kitaman was going against sandroba during day 1. Remember that assuming Promethelax is town, mafia were in a great position at the end of the day. Town Foolishness has 6 votes and the runner up at 3 votes is also town. This is great for them cause they get to decide who's getting lynched. If I'm mafia why is there not more votes on Promethelax and where is my team to defend me? Sure I got kitaman pushing for Promethelax but I was in a desperate situation there. Things wouldn't have unfolded the way they did if that was the case. So instead this means that mafia were likely already voting for me. But they wouldn't want to go with the vote switch since that was on a mafia. VE is the only person that fits this bill since he was strangely absent during lynch time (and he posted 15 minutes after the lynch). WoS would be gone but I did feel his vote on me was questionable (will look into that later don't worry). Mafia were voting for me and were sitting comfortably, and when a vote switch happened they weren't around for it. I really really like this post . I'm hammered as shit though so I'm not sure how good my reading skills are. So drunk my fiancé is puking in the shower. Everything is awful. Like foolishness, though.thinking right. | ||
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Promethelax
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Lynch VE I think. No interest in lunch. Also: maybe WoS? He thinks I could be s um with what in my mind was hammer vote. I think you'll agree that me+fool =/= scum pair so if I was scum I could have left my vote on fool and lynchedvhim overs and. | ||
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Promethelax
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VE isn't interested in the lynch, let it go with even votes, just doesn't seem right. Which is why he might be scum. WoS keeps pressuring me after a lynch that should look really good for me. He isn't terrible (though he isn't top rung in this game in particular) and so he should know that hammer voting scum d1 usually indicates town. And yeah, I didn't actually cast the deciding vote but I thought I did. | ||
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On January 23 2014 08:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Please stop posting. Final Vote Count - Deadline at Wednesday, Jan 22 10:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Sandroba (5): gonzaw, austinmcc, marvellosity, Hapahauli, Promethelax, Promethelax (3): Foolishness, Kitaman27, Sandroba, Foolishness (2): VisceraEyes, WaveofShadow, gonzaw (1): HolyFlare Kitaman27 (0): WaveOfShadow (0): HolyFlare (0): Hapahauli (0): VisceraEyes (0): Not voted (0) If you notice a mistake, please let us know! Sandroba is set to be lynched. So from this I'd say at least one scum is not on sandro and if a scum is on sand he isn't around at deadline. Since all votes on sand were at deadline only Austin/Marv could be scum voters since they'd be the ones believing scumdroba wouldn't be lynched and getting credit from it (assuming fool is town, not a great assumption though) think Marv is better at reading thread sentiment and would know that the switch was going to happen moe than Austin. Gonzaw, me, Hapa are town from lynch. Gon/hap town already anyways so I don't learn anything here. Marv and Kita look bad for unvoting scum. Kita more than Marv. I think. Not sure. I would not be shocked if last two scum are in WoS, VE, holy, fool Kita. I need to looking to possible pairs. I think VE is best .ynch of those. Going to reread sand now. | ||
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Promethelax
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On January 23 2014 07:15 sandroba wrote: Sup. I'm 95% convinced prom is scum. I could go on and explain my absence etc, but I won't. Let's talk about important things instead. Getting past the openning post that has already been discussed, his come back post with the kita vote does not make sense for town prom: This is clearly a total misconception of what kita is trying to acomplish in his post which was question gonzaw in his motives when making an useless post about foolishness early meta and move the thread off an issue he deemed unimportant at the time. Not only that, the reason he he votes for him is because it "reminds him of a game in which he did something simillar" and was scum. Not only this already smells of total bullshit, this already makes sense from the backward logic scum normally has of first deciding who to vote for and later trying to justify it, twisting it to suit their needs. If you are not convinced take a look at how prom presents his vote in the recent pyp game as town: You could go on and compare both filters from these games and notice how different his tone and assertiviness are a lot different this game in a mafia oriented way. In this game his play is totally reactive and comes from a defensive position, where in the game he was town, even replacing in a slot that had a fair bit of suspicion on it he promoted discussion and basically took over the game. The man is scum. ##vote: promthelax To the bolder: hohoho. Scum calling out their own tactics. Sand defends fool, Kita. Attacks prom, gonzaw Buddies WoS Between me/fool I'm trying to think of who I'd see as an easier target from a scum perspective if both were town. I think I'm harder to lynch thn fool since I have more thread or essence and a better excuse to be bad while fool has poor thread presence and less excuse to be bad. Thing is I'm pretty sure sand is one of those player who has a vet hard on and would know fool way better. Than he knows me (though in three games with him I've voted him d1 twice when he was scum and bossed the fuck out of pyp once). Still think he'd respect fool more than me so I'm not sure his choice to attack me over fool is deeply enlightening. | ||
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Promethelax
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On January 23 2014 16:28 VisceraEyes wrote: I was making dinner. I was interested, I just was frying fucking porkchops and that's labor intensive. Like, I don't know what else to say. I even asked you why you preferred Foolish over sandroba, you can't say I wasn't interested in the lynch. I just had other shit going on. No no, VE was totes interested guys, he just couldn't be assed to participate in shennanies (VE COULD NOT BE ASSED TO PARTICIPATE IN SHENNANIES!!!! I cannot stress the oddness enough) but he could come in here to discredit my findings on his play. Yet he hasn't looked back at the lynch in an attempt to find scum while my drunk ass did. What VE is doing is needlessly defending himself without providing any useful content. Town VE at least tries to get things done. This VE is just doing nothing. Would lynch. Gonzaw, buddy, shall we dance? There are 9 hours left in the night phase I think. You and I could catch entire scum team in that time. | ||
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Promethelax
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Gonzaw: Sandro's filter isn't a waste. He defends foolish and Kita in interesting ways I'm not sure they are scum based on that but it is interesting. I still like WoS and VE for scum over fool and Kita though. Ordering of my lynch candidates from scum to less scummy VE WoS Toad/Kita Fool | ||
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Promethelax
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On January 24 2014 01:02 kitaman27 wrote: I'm starting to look back now, but one question you can answer while I do so prom: If I was your leading lynch candidate up until page 30, and the only thing I've really done since then is push a lynch on yourself, rather than swapping to the flipped scum player sandroba, what makes me drop from number one on your list to four? Other people did scummier things. VE and WoS jumped up the list due to their behaviour around a scum lynch. I also know them better which gives me more insight into their play while i know you can do shit that seems scummy as town. The fact that the main reasoning for my change isn't obvious to you is pretty worrying though. | ||
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Promethelax
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I didn't find it totally impossible that town sand would come out with an ass backwards awful case on me. Syllo did the same thing in chronotrigger and the two of them are one person in my mind. He was never town in my head but he was scummy for lurking not for anything in particular. I don't think you know how to read though buddy. When I said that sandro was capable of bad play as town I meant he was capable of bad play as town not that he was, in this case, bad town. He deserved a lynch for being a lurker not for posting a bad case. | ||
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Promethelax
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+ Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 10:49 VisceraEyes wrote: I thought Kita was trolling, but I did ask this to myself too. LOL This post stuck out to me early on and I didn't know why. Looking back it just doesn't jive with town VE. And the thing that doesn't jive is "LOL" He is trying too hard to joke and be buddies with Austin, I don't like what he is doing in terms of buddying or in terms of interacting with kita and Sand, all of it feels too forced and his LOL doesn't add anything to his game besides letting us all know how relaxed he is. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 11:22 VisceraEyes wrote: If we're talking meta, pressure won't mean anything to sandroba. He'll either play or he won't, and if he's town he'll probably find some scum. People like kita voting for him as a joke will probably not pressure him as much as you seem to think. Again people have already commented on VE's early defense of Sandroba but it is worth bringing up again now that Sand has flipped. This preemptive defense of Sand's play seems a little too aware; while Sand could do this as both alignments if I were scum with him this game I'd be worried that he would play his usual shitty scum meta (as he ended up doing) and would be hyper aware of people talking about it. I know this has been discussed by better meta readers than myself but when VE goes caps crazy he is usually scum trying too hard to match his townie silliness: + Show Spoiler [VE's caps] + On January 21 2014 11:46 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay okay okay. So let me get this straight. EVERYONE is suspicious..because we started the game...without you? ##Unvote ##Vote Promethelax OMGUSM (OMGUS MORE) On January 21 2014 11:50 VisceraEyes wrote: COUNTERQUESTION PROMETHELAX! WHY HAPAHAULI AND NOT VE, WHO POSTED THE FUCKING POST IN QUESTION?!?!?!?!? + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 12:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Nothing VE has said has been relevant so far. There are no objectives in his gameplay beyond cracking "witty" 1-lined responses. VE's gameplay so far gives me the impression that he's more interested in irrelevant small-talk than finding a read, pursuing an objective, or even promoting discussion. Hell, Isn't it strange for someone with 10 posts this early not to have said a single damn relevant thing? I'll say something when there's something worth saying. Anything objectively scummy in my play? Bring it up Hapa. This is subjective, and it's VE we're talking about. Note how VE says here that he hasn't said anything because there isn't anything worth saying. Yet just afterwards he is voting for me because of something that happened before there was nothing worth commenting on. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 13:01 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm voting for Prome because he immediately asked you a question about me that applied to Wave equally, and then made up some nonsense reasoning as to why it applied to me but not Wave. That's not odd to you? That is a scum justification for a vote, not a townie attempt to find scum. The two are distinct in many ways and the reason VE is voting me is that I had done something which he tries to ask Hapa "does it seem odd to you?" something which 'seems odd' is not 'is scummy' + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 13:16 VisceraEyes wrote: I think if he's town he's biased and it's bullshit to be so biased already, but whatever. It makes him more likely to be scum to me, but no, I'm reading him as town presently. So this post happened. VE thinks I am biased and that makes me more likely to be scum. And yet, for no reason, I am town to him. Hapa said he thought this was indicative of a townie who was bothered at being accused for something that didn't make him scum but I see it as just as likely to come from a scum mad at a townie calling him scum for a reason that he feels could be equally applied to a town player. The above having been stated I don't think WoS and VE can be scum together because if I was right to call VE scum for something that WoS did too and both were scum it would be a valid read on both of them. If VE flips scum I'd say WoS is not scum. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 13:57 VisceraEyes wrote: Here's my problem with Promethelax in full. Some stuff had happened up to the point Prom had made his entrance post. It had NO content whatsoever, BUT I'LL LET THAT SLIDE. When confronted about this fact, rather than say he had nothing to say, NO suspicions, he said he was suspicious of EVERYONE. Why? We can't all be scum right? He's obviously NOT suspicious of everyone regardless of his alignment. My problem was with his tone of defensiveness. It's not "I'm not suspicious of anyone because nothing has happened yet" it's "I'm suspicious of EVERYONE so you can't say I'm not contributing!" THAT was the reasoning for my vote. Then he goes on to ask you Hapa about one of my posts. Some bullshit about it being fluffy, I don't really know what his problem with it ultimately was...but the thing is that WoS had posted something extremely similar in the post EXACTLY above mine. So why am I scum rather than WoS? You asked a question, and we both answered. But look at the language Wave uses versus mine...I've bolded what I think is an apologetic tone, like he feels bad even for entering discussion. And goes on to ask a completely irrelevant question of Hapa...I mean, I'm not sure exactly "fluffy" means as it pertains to finding scum, but Wave's post seems to fit the bill more than mine does in this particular instance as far as I can see. But this was Prome's response to the "why" of it: so remember how I was town after all this stuff happened? Do you? VE doesn't. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 14:01 VisceraEyes wrote: Let me know if any of this is unreasonable and I'll just stop - but I'm perturbed that I'm AGAIN the first SERIOUS scum candidate in a veteran game and I'm sick of this shit. VE was so not mad in the champions game when he was called scum early on. He had fun and fucked around, had a claim that was silly didn't get lynched d1. It was a good time. VE is mad here in a way I don't expect from a town VE. See when I get called scum in the beginning of every game ever I don't get mad, I know I'm town and that I'll get through it. VE's early game, as we've seen above is full of inconsistencies and scummy flipping and flopping. VE doesn't know who he wants to lynch or why. Now, in the end of day one while we were lynching scum what did VE do? Nothing let's take a look shall we? The lynch deadline was 0800 TL time. On January 23 2014 06:48 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm willing to vote him - I'm just hesitant. And Foolish looks like he's trying to manipulate me and it hurts my soul.  The him in this post is me. I feel like Fool is town and VE is working to set up one of us as the mislynch following the first lynch. Look how we are both scum no matter what and both need to be voted, that way which ever one flips the other can still be the next day's target. On January 23 2014 07:41 VisceraEyes wrote: What ranks him higher than sandroba who is A) a lurker and B) trying to get you lynched? Is it just the fact that he's set to be lynched? VE is here, nineteen minutes before lynch to question me on voting Fool over Sand and yet he doesn't have an opinion. He doesn't care where this lynch goes between me and Fool. At this time Sand is being discussed but isn't likely to be killed. His total focus during this lynch is on me and Fool, he never mentions Sand as a possibility and is totally disinterested in Sand as a lynch candidate. On January 23 2014 07:38 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh man and he comes in in the eleventh hour too. Unreal. Prome is sandroba scum for that meta thing? Is anyone scum to you? And this shit too. I was pushing for a fool lynch during this time and clearly had him as scum but as I've shown all VE can do is focus on me. His read is all based on early play which he later discounted. This is not the evolving read of a townie looking for scum but the justification of a scummer looking for a mislynch. Conclusion: VE is scum and should be lynched. | ||
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Promethelax
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On January 24 2014 01:51 gonzaw wrote: You just called him town there. Not scum = town. Or are you going with that weird "if he is scum, then the reason for him being scum is not his vote on me" reasoning there? If it's the latter it was worded badly It is the latter. He is not scum for his case on me. Sorry if that wasn't clear, I thought it was. | ||
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