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On January 31 2014 10:51 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2014 10:47 WaveofShadow wrote:I actually understood to some degree what austin was getting at at the time to be honest. I also don't find the line of thought scummy in any way, really. He dropped when you explained it the best, here. On January 29 2014 07:14 marvellosity wrote:
Because day 3 is not day 1
Are you being purposefully obtuse?
You can find plenty of games of mine where I day 1 shenannie. No games where I am not voting my strongest read day 3. It's exceptionally simple to understand I basically found it suspicious because it seemed so obvious what I was talking about, and it shouldn't have to require me shouting the really obvious context at him to make him stop going down that path. Apparently if you empathised and understood at the time, then it wasn't quite correct for me to find it that off. Ok.
Is there anything else?
Do you think the final scumteam is austin and prome?
Is Toad involved?
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On January 31 2014 10:54 marvellosity wrote:
Well don't do anything superdumb like not post definitively in resolution period (assuming we get that far trololol etc), because, ya know, it's not unlikely you'll be shot, methinks.
If Prome is on the scumteam I likely won't be shot.
If you're on the scumteam I DEFINITELY won't be shot.
If you're NOT on the scumteam I think it would be incredibly dumb to shoot me above you were I scum, but hey that's just me.
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On January 31 2014 10:57 marvellosity wrote:
how do you see austin's posting on the holy/toad slot this game Wave?
Notably absent in recent times, I believe.
Austin, the man makes a point.
Care to elaborate?
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On January 31 2014 11:01 austinmcc wrote:Above is in response to Show nested quote +On January 31 2014 10:54 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 31 2014 10:51 marvellosity wrote:On January 31 2014 10:47 WaveofShadow wrote:I actually understood to some degree what austin was getting at at the time to be honest. I also don't find the line of thought scummy in any way, really. He dropped when you explained it the best, here. On January 29 2014 07:14 marvellosity wrote:
Because day 3 is not day 1
Are you being purposefully obtuse?
You can find plenty of games of mine where I day 1 shenannie. No games where I am not voting my strongest read day 3. It's exceptionally simple to understand I basically found it suspicious because it seemed so obvious what I was talking about, and it shouldn't have to require me shouting the really obvious context at him to make him stop going down that path. Apparently if you empathised and understood at the time, then it wasn't quite correct for me to find it that off. Ok. Is there anything else? Do you think the final scumteam is austin and prome? Is Toad involved?
Oh god the brainz question again?
Can you remind me where that ridiculousness stems from?
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On January 31 2014 11:01 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2014 10:54 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 31 2014 10:51 marvellosity wrote:On January 31 2014 10:47 WaveofShadow wrote:I actually understood to some degree what austin was getting at at the time to be honest. I also don't find the line of thought scummy in any way, really. He dropped when you explained it the best, here. On January 29 2014 07:14 marvellosity wrote:
Because day 3 is not day 1
Are you being purposefully obtuse?
You can find plenty of games of mine where I day 1 shenannie. No games where I am not voting my strongest read day 3. It's exceptionally simple to understand I basically found it suspicious because it seemed so obvious what I was talking about, and it shouldn't have to require me shouting the really obvious context at him to make him stop going down that path. Apparently if you empathised and understood at the time, then it wasn't quite correct for me to find it that off. Ok. Is there anything else? Do you think the final scumteam is austin and prome? Is Toad involved? If I were simply to lynch 2 individuals right now, it would be Prome and Toad. I just need to get my head around this: Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 23:42 Promethelax wrote:On January 21 2014 23:14 Holyflare wrote:On January 21 2014 23:12 marvellosity wrote:On January 21 2014 23:07 Holyflare wrote:On January 21 2014 22:51 gonzaw wrote:
Fluff o clock just happens to be at the same time as my foot massage time Promy prom
Im at work. Skimmed and theres too much blablabla ill ignore.
Ill gladly focus on foo and maybe marvy when i get home. But right now, marv is right, unless anything more interestong happens foolishness should be D1 lynch. WHY CANT YOU BE TOWM FOO I REALLY WANT YOU TO!!
Im scared of kita since he seems to have that umreadable type of attitude when playing and pressuring. Doesnt help he gets into fluffy discussions and shit. Why Foolishness over sandroba? They have both posted nothing. Your goal is clearly to lynch a lurker today so why are you going to ignore the rest of what has happened on day 1 when your intentions are already set in stone? The wording of this question doesn't make sense, because the red follows logically from the green, no? There is clearly more than 1 scum in this game. If he has found 1 why has he got the intention to not read to find another? Will follow up on this as I read but this post stands out on my so-bad-it-has-to-come-from-town radar. The post so deeply misunderstands how to play mafia as a whole and places pressure so fully away from anything resembling clear thought that it does nothing. I cannot expound enough on how poor I think this line of thought is. But I don't see it coming from a scummer since my memory of HF is that he doesn't suck at scum and wouldn't post something so totally awful if he was concerned about how other people read him. to make them into a team. It doesn't make it impossible for sure, but it makes me frown thinking about it. It would be Prome's best play of the game I think. It could be a "i'm drawing attention to this so that I'm not drawing attention to this" sort of thing.
Why is that hard to do as a scumteam?
That's an easy townread, and says more about a scum Prome than it does about a mafia Holy/Toad. If anything it makes Holy's theoretical scumplay more impressive to set Prome up for that easy townread.
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On January 31 2014 11:00 austinmcc wrote:
That's more or less kita's question.
I don't think it's a scum-marv comment. He's not scum because he said that. He's scum for general feel, for the brainz question, for his willingness to sit in the backseat this game EVEN AS THE GAME GOES TO ENDGAME (look at foolishness's posts on kita/toad/prome, kita's post on Sandroba's willingness to bus, and compare that to anything that marv has put forth). That comment just made me go look harder at his D1 voting, and also just...fight with him about it but it's not a town/scum battleground. He just got really bristly and I don't like the bristliness, or the fact that there's no ground given by either of us over whether the comment allows for a D3/D1 difference.
It's a long time back, but in Movie Mini marv gets to mid/middish game and goes nuts trying to hunt a scum roleblocker because that's the only way for town to POSSIBLY win. In champions he has a burst of activity in late midgame, trying to get things on the right track for town. Even when marv isn't LEADING, marv wants to SOLVE the game.
We're one day from endgame and marv still wasn't even convinced on prome, for the longest time today, and he's still not voting and doesn't appear to be fully convinced. Foolishness and Kita put in legwork, I ... opened LX in another tab and have not looked at it much, and marv is just content to fret over who might or might not be scum. Except not really, because he's not taking any stances, he's not burst of activity-ing. He's just sort of here to say that maybe some folks are mafia.
....then why continue to push it? >.<
As for the rest, yup, I get it and have gotten it all game. It's not a really far cry from marv's towngame though but maybe this is what was enough to set off my radar earlier in the game?
I also have to go look at a couple of specific points during the game where I said 'This is town-marv,' and re-evaluate to see if the reason for those was good enough.
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On January 31 2014 11:07 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2014 11:00 austinmcc wrote:
That's more or less kita's question.
I don't think it's a scum-marv comment. He's not scum because he said that. He's scum for general feel, for the brainz question, for his willingness to sit in the backseat this game EVEN AS THE GAME GOES TO ENDGAME (look at foolishness's posts on kita/toad/prome, kita's post on Sandroba's willingness to bus, and compare that to anything that marv has put forth). That comment just made me go look harder at his D1 voting, and also just...fight with him about it but it's not a town/scum battleground. He just got really bristly and I don't like the bristliness, or the fact that there's no ground given by either of us over whether the comment allows for a D3/D1 difference.
It's a long time back, but in Movie Mini marv gets to mid/middish game and goes nuts trying to hunt a scum roleblocker because that's the only way for town to POSSIBLY win. In champions he has a burst of activity in late midgame, trying to get things on the right track for town. Even when marv isn't LEADING, marv wants to SOLVE the game.
We're one day from endgame and marv still wasn't even convinced on prome, for the longest time today, and he's still not voting and doesn't appear to be fully convinced. Foolishness and Kita put in legwork, I ... opened LX in another tab and have not looked at it much, and marv is just content to fret over who might or might not be scum. Except not really, because he's not taking any stances, he's not burst of activity-ing. He's just sort of here to say that maybe some folks are mafia.
This post is grossly unfair. I believed Foolish was mafia (and was the first not to dally after his epic posts) and the game was built around that. And I pushed it and I got Foolish lynched like I wanted, that was to be my crowning glory this game, and I damn well made sure it happened. Except he was town and everything fell around me and how I viewed the game simply didn't really exist anymore. Pretty much I don't feel bad for being a bit unsure today in light of this. Pretty sure you're being pretty bad and wrong with this whole post because of this.
But there's notably someone who else who had viewed the game as 'all wrong' from the start, and he started to re-evaluate early on. Hell even I started to re-evaluate Foolishness before he was lynched, because that is what townies do. I'm not saying everything austin pointed out here screams scum, but there are problems with your play here, and those problems ARE fair. Especially in considering how a lot of the competing thoughts and opinions were shut down that maybe would have made 'the way you view the game' a little less rigid and thus prevent things from 'falling down around you.'
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On January 31 2014 11:09 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2014 11:01 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 31 2014 10:57 marvellosity wrote:
how do you see austin's posting on the holy/toad slot this game Wave? Notably absent in recent times, I believe. Austin, the man makes a point. Care to elaborate? ? As far as what I think about the toad slot? NUMBER ONE THOUGHT - HE'S TOWN SO I DON'T CARE NUMBER TWO THOUGHT - His response to me asking what he found scummy about marv is VERY townie to me. Why? The final scum NEEDS a mislynch. He NKs someone, he needs a mislynch between the remaining two. The final scum needs to be painting people as scummy, and CONVINCINGLY so. All he has to do is convince Guy A that Guy B is scum, at least more than Guy B can convince Guy A that final scum is scum. Toad, when asked what mafia agenda (i hated using agendas and I'm using agenda as plural here) marv has pushed, doesn't make anything up. He doesn't go FIND places where marv has encouraged votes on townies, taken mafia stances, whatever whatever. He doesn't make any attempt to bolster a case against marv. He just says marv has been pushing him and THAT is a scummy agenda. I find toad town. If he's mafia, he just has to keep me convinced you or marv is mafia. And he put ZERO effort into painting marv as mafia. That is, to me, the opposite of what mafia would have responded to that question with. If he were mafia, he had a chance to make his endgame SLIGHTLY easier, and he utterly failed to take it in a dismissive way. NUMBER THREE THOUGHT - HOLY CRAP HOW DOES HE NOT KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE LEFT IN THE GAME WE ARE 1 DAY FROM ENDGAME AND HE'S JUST...BARELY FOLLOWING ALONG? HOW CAN THIS BE? NUMBER FOUR THOUGHT - As mentioned before, the times I've seen scum toad, he's gotten himself caught EARLY, because he does silly things or he's too outspoken. The scumToad that I know LOVES to cause chaos, be very visible, essentially sac himself to fuck with the thread. In Chrono Trigger he was very visible early. In Pokemon PTP he was apparently visible early, I replaced into the game after he'd already died, but he was a D1 or D2 death iirc. Toad here is NOT causing chaos. He's doing...very little. And he's not the last guy left. Up until recently, toad was more suspicious than prome. If THEY are a mafia team together, I would except mafia Toad to be unable to resist the desire to just fuck with the thread, cause chaos, and try to set prome up. It's not like everyone isn't slightly suspicious of everyone in this game, it would have taken very little work to just push everyone and everything. But instead, he's just passive and often a non-factor. That's not the scumtoad I know.
Unless extremely conclusive (like that brilliant kita-->sandroba find recently) I don't like looking to meta so I'm not really taking into account how 'scumtoad usually plays the game.' I think the kind of play that would benefit the scumteam the most right now is exactly what they've been doing; have one active member to do the legwork (ie marv/you/me) and have one sit back in the shadows and avoid shit (toad/prome). Now obviously the prevailing theory is marv/prome so this works nicely, but Toad and any other one of us could technically fit just as well, depending on whose viewpoint we're standing at. I don't think Toad NEEDS to push an 'agenda' at this point, and even then, pushing an agenda (if marv is in fact scum) doesn't seem to be doing the scumteam much good anyway. Not fantastic reasons imo...what's the one where he doesn't know how many people are left?
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On January 31 2014 11:12 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2014 11:06 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 31 2014 11:00 austinmcc wrote:
That's more or less kita's question.
I don't think it's a scum-marv comment. He's not scum because he said that. He's scum for general feel, for the brainz question, for his willingness to sit in the backseat this game EVEN AS THE GAME GOES TO ENDGAME (look at foolishness's posts on kita/toad/prome, kita's post on Sandroba's willingness to bus, and compare that to anything that marv has put forth). That comment just made me go look harder at his D1 voting, and also just...fight with him about it but it's not a town/scum battleground. He just got really bristly and I don't like the bristliness, or the fact that there's no ground given by either of us over whether the comment allows for a D3/D1 difference.
It's a long time back, but in Movie Mini marv gets to mid/middish game and goes nuts trying to hunt a scum roleblocker because that's the only way for town to POSSIBLY win. In champions he has a burst of activity in late midgame, trying to get things on the right track for town. Even when marv isn't LEADING, marv wants to SOLVE the game.
We're one day from endgame and marv still wasn't even convinced on prome, for the longest time today, and he's still not voting and doesn't appear to be fully convinced. Foolishness and Kita put in legwork, I ... opened LX in another tab and have not looked at it much, and marv is just content to fret over who might or might not be scum. Except not really, because he's not taking any stances, he's not burst of activity-ing. He's just sort of here to say that maybe some folks are mafia.
....then why continue to push it? >.< As for the rest, yup, I get it and have gotten it all game. It's not a really far cry from marv's towngame though but maybe this is what was enough to set off my radar earlier in the game? I also have to go look at a couple of specific points during the game where I said 'This is town-marv,' and re-evaluate to see if the reason for those was good enough. I push it because we seem to fight a bunch and we both always want to be right. In this case, I think the statement Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 06:25 marvellosity wrote:
no austin, you should be lynching the absolute strongest read, period. is a blanket statement. Not a D3 vs D1 thing, no room for error, "Are you lynching? If yes, lynch strongest read." He is saying this applies on D3 but not D1. ALL I REALLY WANT IS FOR HIM TO SAY "YUP, MY COMMENT SHOULD BE AMENDED TO SAY THAT THIS APPLIES FROM D2/D3 ONWARDS It's not even about votes or anything. It's just an absolutely stupid fight over whether marv believes in the statement as written, or in that statement as amended.
So this has nothing to do with marv's alignment then? Did it have something to do with his alignment at some point? Marv sure seems to think the argument has a thread-relevant point beyond being a stupid fight.
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Oh and as far as 'he's town so you don't care,' austin, what if it's me you and Toad at LYLO?
You sure as hell better care then.
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On January 31 2014 11:16 marvellosity wrote:
btw, brilliant austin.
toad is town because "he's not doing anything and he's not pushing a case on his mafiaread in any way". Wonderful.
Nah marv, I see his point. I was pretty tempted to be lazy as fuck for the rest of the day, not even bother doing my read and waiting until Prome flips red to start working. It's not like anything particularly interesting is going to happen before then.
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On January 31 2014 11:18 marvellosity wrote:
Anyway screw you all for being active right about the time I need to be in bed. 2:20 so I am heading there immediately.
kk will you be around to talk tomorrow?
I will actually be pretty active for most of the day up until usual time pre-deadline.
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On January 31 2014 11:37 austinmcc wrote:
I was already fully decided on Toad so I didn't care much about Foolishness's post on Toad.
But....since some of the early comments on Prome seem to have gotten lost in the aether, Foolishness has a whole bit on why HE thinks toad is town, and also Foolishness didn't flip mafia. Maybe it does something for people, maybe it doesn't, but you can trust that post more now than you could when you thought Foolishness was mafia.
lol austin your reads are cray cray, you're going to have to teach me how to explain retarded reads so when I make them people don't think I'm scum for it.
As far as marv pooping on you from space, I remember agreeing with him at the time too about the 'brainz' thing, but I suppose you have a small point regarding the timing and the fact that marv sort of dropped it at an odd time. I don't really value that as a scumtell nearly as much as you do though, because I feel that's just a sort of a 'marvy' thing to do when he thinks something is dumb and he's re-reading parts of the thread.
You can keep your reads though. Have fun with them.
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On January 31 2014 12:02 austinmcc wrote:
Does the genesis of my townread on Toad make...more sense?
I know me going "it reminded me of this other feeling i had this one time" is not a good basis to convince anyone of marv.
But I don't think my thoughts on Toad are ridiculous, except maybe the final bit on brainz, but I find that shorthand to refer to the whole thing.
I didn't have as much of a problem with your Toadread as marv did, so let him respond to you. I'm decently okay with it for now, but again, in the middle of massive re-read so if I have more questions for you that go back on anything I've said, don't be surprised.
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Happy pre-birthday Austin!
Can your present be to win this game with me rather than on your own?
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On February 01 2014 03:42 Toadesstern wrote:
I kind of have the feeling that mafia is going to shoot me and have you two + marv in lylo considering WoS' comments about you recently. Can that be your birthday present from me?
48 hours of argueing with WoS about why you might or might not be town sounds fun to me. Good thing I don't have to go through that.
Yeah fuck you, I'm not looking forward to it either, but I hope you realize your chances are just as good at being stuck there with me imo.
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Man, I show up an errrybody disappears
So disappointing.
Why are there no baby seals yet?
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I thought that Prome was going to try and convince me.
I actually really like that he wrote that because it basically means exactly what Toad was talking about (and I've been thinking for ages) is true. Hell Prome even referred to me as 'one of the weaker players' earlier on in the thread---I imagine they're banking their entire game now on me fucking up somehow, and they figure I can be convinced one way or the other.
And boy I'll tell ya, if there was one person who's pretty good at convincing me of stuff, it's marv.
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Jesus Austin.
You're the one putting so much effort in now and I'm sooo laaazzzyyy
Can I call you town based on effort? 
+ Show Spoiler +I know I actually can't 'cause it's you, Mr. PTP: Dr Who
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On February 01 2014 04:52 austinmcc wrote:
Next game I play with Toad, I just want to post a bunch of entirely irrelevant anime pictures, or ones with fake captions.
+1
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EPT
