EPTMarv's weakest day is day one. He is the anti palmar.
[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia - Page 2
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Promethelax
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Marv's weakest day is day one. He is the anti palmar. | ||
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On January 21 2014 19:25 marvellosity wrote: You don't think Prome is being typical arch-bullshitter as per usual? Sometimes it worries me that you and I know each other so well when it comes to this game. Sometimes it makes me warm and fuzzy. People I don't like: Foolishness (total lack of justification and his total dismissal of VE/Hapa as townie v townie, both of them are totally capable of what they have done so far as scum and to just not be interested in them at all is scummy) Kita (said "I don't call people scummy early because it makes people listen to me less later" which isn't true and so totally wired that it rings scummy since I cannot figure out what it gives a town Kita while it does provide some benefit to a scum Kita.) People who are Gonzaw but haven't posted Gonzaw like posts after fluff o'clock : Gonzaw | ||
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On January 21 2014 22:52 marvellosity wrote: Prome, tell me you and Hapa aren't the two players in the game most likely to magic crap out of nothing at the start of a game... ^^ gonz why do you want to concentrate on me if I happen to be voting the person you seem to want to lynch? Is every one of your posts so far a sham? D: I know it and don't disagree with it. I was just pointing out that you are the only one who picked up on what I was doing being easy early game pressure based on very little to get the game moving versus serious scum accusation which I believe with all my heart. On January 21 2014 23:04 kitaman27 wrote: snip So one of your strongest reads currently is based off a joke post? snip Yes, the game is early and you posted something which feels wrong to me. And yes it was in a joke post. But, eh, in my one read through that stuck out to me as concerning. On January 21 2014 23:14 Holyflare wrote: There is clearly more than 1 scum in this game. If he has found 1 why has he got the intention to not read to find another? Will follow up on this as I read but this post stands out on my so-bad-it-has-to-come-from-town radar. The post so deeply misunderstands how to play mafia as a whole and places pressure so fully away from anything resembling clear thought that it does nothing. I cannot expound enough on how poor I think this line of thought is. But I don't see it coming from a scummer since my memory of HF is that he doesn't suck at scum and wouldn't post something so totally awful if he was concerned about how other people read him. | ||
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On January 21 2014 23:16 marvellosity wrote: Maybe Hero mafia gonzaw I bussed Adam because Palmar caught him red-handed and if I didn't bus him we were both going down Gonzaw, I don't know how much you want my insight into this but I talked with marv a lot during Hero mini and he explained his thought process to me. He is willing to bus early if the player is a detriment to his team but because marv cannot be the lylo player for a scum team (due to the lynch marv at lylo meta) he refuses to bus early without reason. He needs to set up his scum-buddies for the end game, not set up himself. On January 22 2014 01:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Morning guys. Marv no, I don't think it's the same kind of Prome that I'm used to seeing. What it reminds me of is that game I was the mayor and lynched the piss out of Prome D1. He was a lurky little shit that game, but I caught him on something very similar to what I noticed this game. Like I think it's awful that I have to ask this, but did you read my post on him? That being said, I at least dig one of his targets. I asked Foolish about his thoughts on this same matter and what I got is "lol you and Hapa townies" which is definitely NOT what I was after. He answered my question as if he'd read the exchange between us, but left me with a feeling that he hadn't actually read anything at all. If I see one more person say they're going to ignore my posts, I won't be responsible for the outcome. You have been warned. I totally disagree with the similarities to that game (LX, I think) though to each their own. You can keep reading me and it should become rather obvious that I am town within a bit as it always does. On the subject of Foolish though: I really can't stand what he did there as it seemed totally disconnected from anything within the thread and more like someone dismissing two players that they had not read. I find foolishness scummy for it but the last time he rolled town he did play in a similar manner (personality II) and lurked, got called scummy and helped wreck the game. I want to assume that foolishness is still the town player I fell in love with reading the first aperture game but I don't know if he is. Does anyone know Fool's current abilities as town? I know they aren't bad but are they the same as his heyday? On January 22 2014 01:50 kitaman27 wrote: How much time did you spend looking into Foolishness's history gonzaw? Additionally, what is the point of posting a guide on how to read Foolishness? If you point out his scum qualities before he has any actual posts, do you expect him to read your guide and then get caught anyways? Do you think this was an efficient use of your town as a player who hasn't even read the thread? When I think of a player that gets off to a trolly start as town, Foolishness is one of the first people to come to mind so I disagree with your assessment based on the posts that you have cherry picked. I'm still content with my vote on him however based on activity. This kind of post is why I feel all hinky about you Kita. Rest of the thread: this post adds nothing to the discussion, doesn't do anything but castigate Gonzaw (a player who, based on length of post alone looks townie) and tries to throw doubt everywhere. It reminds me of a Kita scum game with WBG where the two of them got in the thread every time a lylch they didn't like was discussed to talk shit about the lynch by attacking the guy who was leading said lynch. Can anyone remember said game? Either way, that is with or without that meta, this rings of scum to me enough that I am comfortable laying down a ##Vote:Kitaman On January 22 2014 01:55 marvellosity wrote: you have a lot of funny questions in your filter kita. why are you so much more succinct than I am? Jerk  On January 22 2014 02:04 VisceraEyes wrote: Stop responding and start reading. Kita didn't even care, he's still voting for Foolish. Thread. Read. But that is the thing, no? Kita is attacking the case on Fool while voting for him. He says that trolly starts are a fooolish M.O. but is voting Fool off of said start. My brain is thoroughly wrinkled. Can you help VE? Show me how Kita's thoughts are consistent. On January 22 2014 02:21 VisceraEyes wrote: Making up bullshit justification is totes fine, and not at all out of character for Prome, you're probably right. I think you are being sarcastic but, uh, yeah, it is not out of character for me and is totes fine. The game was not moving and needed to be moving. I found a way to get us to make cases and discuss each other instead of sit around and twiddle each others' thumbs. I don't find it terribly convincing but it was worth bringing up even more so because I knew it would start discussion which had totally stalled out the gate. | ||
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On January 22 2014 03:33 austinmcc wrote: *dancing queen blares through the stadium* GOOD LORD, THAT'S HIS MUSIC (how could I not find a clip of this or something similar on youtube?) I'll give you two thoughts and then you can ask me whatever. (1) I think your specific point against prom is the...most specific point against anyone. Lotta "doesn't quite feel right" or "is asking vapid questions", but I wholeheartedly agree that these two posts do not lead me to this justification from promWoS's "question" doesn't concern sandroba, or sandroba play, and is a throwaway silly question anyway. I currently have the score 1-0 VE on the issue of whether Promethelax justified his treating your posts and WoS's posts on Sandroba differently. (2) I think all this Foolishness stuff is ... foolishness. He's typed 4.3 words. A big discussion of his alignment based on 4.3 words feels very filler-y, and like nobody can build any particularly strong read on the guy or his play this game. So I don't care about foolishness for now. Bro bro, bro. BRO! WoS asked Hapa a question in a 'tone' that seemed curious to me. Which didn't do. That made VE more worth pressuring than Wave. It isn't a big point. It doesn't say a lot but I happen to believe that the question WoS posed Hapa is more likely to come from a town WoS than a scum one. So I went after VE. Along with that attacking VE was more likely to generate content in the thread which was my real goal since WoS is more likely to have a reasonable conversation with me while VE is more likely to do silly things and go crazy. Crazy VE says crazy things. Those things can cause thread interaction to happen which is good. Two reasons to accuse VE over WoS 1. VE seemed slightly more suspicious because WoS said one thing I liked while VE said 0 things I liked. and 2. VE is more likely to respond with OMGUSes and strange ideas which would, I hoped, jumpstart the thread. On January 22 2014 05:00 austinmcc wrote: Okeedoke. Maybe we're working in two directions here. I'm mostly poking at the VE/Prome interaction, not a WoS/Prome interaction. VE asks Prome why Prome kinda on VE's case about saying you're not gonna respond to pressure, bla bla, whatever, but is NOT on WoS's case when WoS says you're not gonna respond to pressure, bla bla, whatever. Prome saysIf you don't think WoS cares about you, and I pretty much agree that he's not racking his brain for magical Sandroba thoughts, then you think Promethelax is manufacturing his distinction, given that WoS isn't actually curious about you or anything? Or you simply don't care about this Prome/VE interaction at all, or don't care about Prome's reasons, or any other "I am Sandroba and I don't really put much stock into this VE/Prome stuff" I'm not looking at WoS with this, or WoS/Prome, so much as I'm trying to zero in on the singular post by Prome where he says WoS asks this curious question which I cannot find. because I was pressuring VE who felt wrong and not WoS who did not feel wrong. I really don't understand what it is that I need to explain more. WoS had the same thoughts as VE but had a thing that made me think he was WoS there was nothing to suggest that it was VE and not VE so I pressured VE and not WoS. /logic okay, I'm done responding to this point because I think I've explained it enough for you to get. If you have another reason to accuse me I'm happy to hear it but this one is played out either you buy my explanation or you don't. I can't explain it more because I've done it two or three ways already and, well, that is all I've got. If you don't believe me lynch me and if you do believe me stop trying to lynch me over this. Find something else worth lynching me for or don't. On January 22 2014 06:00 Hapahauli wrote: This is such a strange question. 1) Why are you talking about him spending so much time on foolishness, when you haven't addressed any of his arguments? Especially... you know... the largest post in the thread currently? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=18#359 2) What is relevant about gonzaw's style so far? He's posted the most content in the thread and has done the most scumhunting of anyone. I don't know how you could raise any questions about his style given what he's posted. 3) Your attitude on Foolishness makes no goddamn sense. In this post, you're deflecting attention from him and puzzled on how gonzaw could spend time on him. ...yet in your posts addressed to me, you repeatedly call foolishness sketchy, scummy, and are generally suspicious of him and his sparse posting. What gives? I was writing up a thing but I'ma just +1 this post instead. Right now, no order within the lists: Hapa Marv WoS Gonzaw VE Sandroba Austin Kita Holy Fool | ||
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I left out Fool's 'case' as I want to address it on its own. On January 22 2014 07:05 gonzaw wrote: The thing is, that when it comes down to Foo', his 3-4 posts are indeed alignment indicative. I also feel, that if Foo is town, unless there is a huge town mob against him they wouldn't really think about going against him. I mean, Town Foo is Town Foo, he'll get those scummers. Would you, as scum, freely go against a Town Foo, for Town Foo later to catch you and crucify you? If Foo is somehow town, then he did leave himself open for scum to have "good material to post on", but I don't think a scummer would feel so confident on going against him like he'd do any random lurker from any other random game. Also, at the very worst, follow this maxim: Sheep marv  Anyways....I kind of feel biased towards this whole "scum Foo" thing, maybe with my VE and Holy reads as well (which interestingly are related to the Foolishness thing as well). I would appreciate new takes on those 2 from other people. I like the idea of this post but I don't agree with it. Gonzaw: there isn't one town player here who is incapable of bringing the pain to a scum team. In a game where you and I are on the bottom rung in terms of ability there isn't an easy player to go after. In fact Foolish may be one of the easiest since he is lurking so far and is known to do so as scum. If foolish is town I would expect scum to be all over that. They get to lynch a powerful townie (one of those top rung bastards) and appear involved and active. Were I scum and I knew Fool to be town I would be on him this game. On January 22 2014 07:57 marvellosity wrote: although apparently i'm the only one who has a hardon for gonzaw right now :/ I do too. Loving his posting so far and I know he can't keep it up as scum (look at LIX) so I'm pretty confident that he is either town or about to reveal himself as scum. Much more likely town. On January 22 2014 09:41 gonzaw wrote: I hope you have some more time to waste on me, because I'm keeping my vote on you until I'm convinced you are town or that someone else is more likely scum than you. You could try expanding more on Holy for example, maybe with new stuff that makes you think he's scum. You can also start by answering some of the stuff I asked you about (those which you haven't answered already). W need Prome and WOS in here... ...and VE. Where the hell did VE go? I'm not entirely sure where you guys get your town read on him. He's, at best, unreadable to me. Can't really figure out how some of you can get that much of a town read on him. Hapa, marv, etc, can you back some of your stuff up with posts from his previous games or something perhaps? For example, this... ...doesn't really convince me. For instance, ever since this post ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439137¤tpage=15#293 ) he hasn't had a single suspicion on anybody, yet had 1 more page in his filter of posts (he backs out of his Prome scum read) With Gonzaw on this one: it is indicative of a player who thinks they are being unfairly accused over another player but I've seen it from both scum and town. | ||
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On January 22 2014 10:27 Holyflare wrote: I don't feel comfortable at all just posting names without elaborating the why's. It was originally you and gonzaw though but that has been dropping down and down based on replies. I honestly am very limited on time in general (all my posts are from my phone since the start) so when i have to defend myself the elaborating drops a lot. Promise to do it in the morning though. Just putting this in my filter to remind myself to keep an eye on guilty promises. I hate this kind of post and if Holy is alive later in the game someone needs to hold him to his promises. Promises of things to come always rub me the wrong way and this was no exception. On January 23 2014 00:05 kitaman27 wrote: Prom, are you going to be posting a lot within the next hour? If so, I'll move on to Holy and come back to you. Yea, posty posty lemon roasty. I'm around for a while. Not to sure on when I'll stop being around since I get a snow day from school and my fiance gets a snowday from work I may just vanish into the thin air of actually going on a date. | ||
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On January 22 2014 07:19 Foolishness wrote: Here's what I think is going on this game. There are quite a few questionable people in this game, but by eliminating some obvious town players things start to make more sense. Towniest of towns Hapa VE Kitaman Hapa is by far the most town person in this game? Why, put simply if you read his filter he is here, he is active and he is pushing pro-town agendas. This is seen because he is generating conversation, trying to organize the town and get everyone on the same page, and questioning suspicious players where appropriate. This is not a matter of debate if you have read the thread. Kitaman is similar in matter and this has already been brought to light by a few players. Actually when I started reading the game yesterday his posting reminded me a lot of myself. Slight trolly attitude to try to get things moving, but when push came to shove he was there to call people out on their shit. Now, if you want to read into that and say, "But Foolishness, Kitaman is usually a strong analyzer, posting paragraphs of information and analysis about a person's behavior and actions" I got nothing to say back about that yet. Though I'm sure time will confirm what I think here. The thing with VE is that yes, on his own some of his posts are suspicious. This one in particular made me raise an eyebrow: + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2014 01:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Morning guys. Marv no, I don't think it's the same kind of Prome that I'm used to seeing. What it reminds me of is that game I was the mayor and lynched the piss out of Prome D1. He was a lurky little shit that game, but I caught him on something very similar to what I noticed this game. Like I think it's awful that I have to ask this, but did you read my post on him? That being said, I at least dig one of his targets. I asked Foolish about his thoughts on this same matter and what I got is "lol you and Hapa townies" which is definitely NOT what I was after. He answered my question as if he'd read the exchange between us, but left me with a feeling that he hadn't actually read anything at all. If I see one more person say they're going to ignore my posts, I won't be responsible for the outcome. You have been warned. where the first two paragraphs seem really out of place and forced, though the last two sentences of the post read very town. However I think if you just read through his filter and analyze it as a whole there's nothing to be afraid of. Is he pushing any sort of mafia agenda? No. Does it feel like he doesn't have the town's best interest in mind? No. Does it feel like he's actually trying to figure things out? Yes. Now I can see why some people have shed some suspicion on him (unlike anyone calling Hapa or Kita mafia), but he just does not feel mafia, and he's definitely interested in the game. Questionable players Austin sandroba marvellosity Holyflare Gonzaw This is roughly in order of most to least town. Austin and sandroba might as well be afk until 3 pages ago, but since coming to the thread both have had strong appearances. I'm okay with them right now because they have brought things to the thread, and it is also obvious that if they continue their activity then they are town. If they keep going afk for long periods of time then start to worry. But I don't feel like that will happen. The following 3 people are all in the ? category. Marvellosity and Holyflare in particular because for all that they have said I don't feel they have really contributed much. Even as I'm writing this I'm thinking back, "what has marvellosity or holyflare done this game", and I cannot remember a single post they have made. That's a bad sign. Anything mafia indicative off the bat? No so much, but then seem to be here without actually being here. Gonzaw is only questionable and not mafia because of his recent vote on me. As kitaman properly pointed out, gonzaw brought up a lot of new information about the case on me. That's good and productive. But as he also pointed out, gonzaw just kinda did nothing with it. "Oh here you go I did some research, now don't mind me anymore let me go be trolly and lurk some more" is that kinda vibe I got from that. mafia Promethelax WaveOfShadow I will go into a little more detail here. What about this post is good? He says generic things that anybody can say. Also the "Let's do something" seems incredibly forced. What does he hope to accomplish by saying that? I don't know (most likely he's mafia) and it feels like he's trying very hard to sound like he's vested in the game (when all he would have to do is just post whatever his thoughts are). And then there's this post as well. Which fails to do nothing but ask more questions of which he never followed through on (neither of them really followed through on to be honest), when he could do have done something like actively push Promethelax to say something of substance. The thing about Promethelax is that his first post is a big pile of words and nobody said anything about it besides WoS which was just a passing remark. Here's the post again: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2014 11:35 Promethelax wrote: Okay broskis, this is just silly. We know how to start a game and it isn't this Mafia Scum inspired baseless lynches shall we discuss policy? Why yes we shall because you all will actually have to commit to something. Since we aren't the run of the mill hokey dory TL types I think its time we set a few ground rules: there should be no discussion of policy lynching lurkers. We simply lynch them. If everyone is good enough to be shadowed everyone is good enough to play the game and we cannot tolerate lurkers. It is my hope that this particular policy doesn't come into play since, obviously, we are the best that TL has so we should play the best as well and lurking simply isn't the best. We are all good enough to carry a town and I would like us all to be that good this game. Play your hearts out gentlemen. I would also like a non-aggression pact. That is we all agree to play nice since I'd rather like to be good role models for our newbies. And yes, I know I'm scummy for posting this, does someone want to come out and say it so that I can defend myself and we can move on with this game and make actual cases on each other and find scum. Unlike WoS I was excited to roll scum in this game, I figured I'd have an excuse to be steamrolled but if I did a good job it would be a huge accomplishment but no, I'm town, I have to figure things out. I would much rather lie to you all but fuck me, I don't get to lie to you. I gotta work for my money. So get it together boys, we are policy lynching lurkers, we aren't going to be mean to each other and we are going to catch scum. And we'll start with Hapa making a case on me, why? Because its tradition is why. Promethelax even admits that his post is awful and that we should call him out on it. Sounds great to me! This kinda bait is definitely a mafia trait and if he thinks he's posting bad then we should definitely lynch him for it. The reason being, if he knows his post his bad why is he making it in the first place? His initial post accomplishes nothing and says nothing and only adds fluff to the thread. I am also bothered by his most recent thread post: Because all his reads feel very convenient. There is nothing in his filter that gives us new information or his original thoughts. I'm leaving my vote where it is for now, honestly Promethelax is the best lynch right now because the case on him is the strongest, but I need to hear opinions on WaveOfShadow while we have the time. Who we are lynching today: Promethelax, WaveOfShadow. If they died probably not a huge loss: marvellosity, HolyFlare, Gonzaw Everyone else deserves to live another day at the least. There isn't much to address in this case. Which is why I got all snarky and called it a 'case' in my earlier post. Fool doesn't like that my early game play was early gmae-ish and, since I have addressed my reasoning for that play and I still believe it was both good and the right play I can't say much about it here. Yes my first post was bad. It always is. Which is why I'm aware of it. Foolish has played at least one and maybe more games with me and should know that a bad first post is as much my meta as calling VE a butt licker is (I"m sorry WoS! I know I said I'd be nice but I had to slip one in). I do find Foolish townier from this post since his reads are generally good but his lack of sight when it comes to Gonzaw is worrying. He places Kita and VE waaaaaay too high and Gonzaw much too low in a way that has me worried since, as Supersoft once said to me, when you are in a game with a bunch of good players you can tell the scum because he is the one whose reads don't line up with everyone else'. I also don't see the reason to attack WoS and just as Fool thinks my targets were easy so were his. He went for the lynch d'jour (me) and the one guy he had called scum earlier (WoS). It seems almost too easy a big post and his lack of other contribution means that while he has taken himself off the table as a good lynch he has not in any way convinced me of his townieness. | ||
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On January 23 2014 06:03 Foolishness wrote: No, but Marvellosity is known for getting things done on day 1. I keep wanting to think you are town but you come up with bullshit like this that isn't even remotely true. I cannot believe that town foolishness actually believes these things as they are not remotely true. ##unvote ##vote: foolishness I simply cannot connect the idea of foolishness being a good town player and him being town while saying things so blatantly false about so many players in this game. | ||
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On January 23 2014 06:51 gonzaw wrote: Is there ANYBODY who believes Holy might be a good D1 lynch? Even if you don't believe he might be a good lynch (because of replacement stuff), did that last post of his convince you he's town? Did it have an impact on your read of him? If so why? marvy, you said you would be thinking about Holy after you come back.....so? You are just focusing on Foo now. Yes I think holy is a good lynch. My good lynch list is: holy, fool, Kita, sand, Austin. Unfortunately none of them are making me jump out of my skin and scream: scum! They are all scummy to the point of being willing to lynch them. | ||
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On January 23 2014 07:04 austinmcc wrote: How do we know sandro is replacing out? Did i miss something? Gah! This fucking post. Austin is so disconnected from this game. I know it consolidation time so I don't want to start a new thing on Austin but fuck do I want to lynch him based on this post. | ||
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On January 23 2014 07:26 marvellosity wrote: So Fool and sand are both on Prome i don't like that lynch very much. In the part of Prome's filter where he attacked Fool and then voted kita which didn't make very much sense to me given he was apparently suspicious of Fool earlier, but now he's back voting Fool which makes more sense. Kinda confusing actually It's because I'm kinda confused. It is what sand is pulling out in my filter. In pyp I had to do something to move town in the right direction (and had 140 pages of thread to work with) and things popped out to me. I had sheep to lead and scum to find. Here no one has made me really hard for their lynch. Although sand bringing in meta from my strongest ever town game is a little funny, I wish I was that good all the time. | ||
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On January 23 2014 07:32 Hapahauli wrote: How is this comment at all alignment indicative? Missing something in the thread is far from a scumtell. Because I misread it. I thought he was misunderstanding the holy sub out. But he was commenting on an offhand post about sand being force replaced. Is sand scum for his vote on me: sadly not, sand can be this bad as town. He is worth lynching as a total lurker who has done nothing but not for his vote on me. A town sand is perfectly capable of being bad. | ||
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On January 23 2014 07:38 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh man and he comes in in the eleventh hour too. Unreal. Prome is sandroba scum for that meta thing? Is anyone scum to you? No one is above a four. Sand is more 3.5 along with kita/holy. Fool is a four. | ||
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On January 23 2014 07:39 austinmcc wrote: So would that move me off your list of peeps to lynch? Or I'm still there but don't move up? I can't tell. I haven't liked your play but I'm not if that makes you scum. You aren't near the top of my lynch list at least. | ||
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On January 23 2014 07:41 VisceraEyes wrote: What ranks him higher than sandroba who is A) a lurker and B) trying to get you lynched? Is it just the fact that he's set to be lynched? I find fool likelier scum than sand. Sand pulls this shit as town while fool hasn't done so in my experience. I wouldn't be unhappy with a sand list, it isn't my preference but I wouldn't hate it. | ||
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On January 23 2014 07:45 Hapahauli wrote: Ya know what, I'm retarded. ##Unvote ##Vote Foolishness I still want your reasoning on me being scum, even for five seconds. What is going on in that pointy little head of yours? And why fool over me? | ||
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I would like to think that at least one scum is on my lynch right now, since I know I'm town and I haven't come out of the gate terribly strongly. Gonzaw: if you want me to lynch sand over fool I'll do it. I trust you right now and if you feel terribly strongly about that lynch over the case you've been pushing all day I can follow you on it. | ||
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