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[I] [S] Shadow Mini Mafia - Page 151
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Just for the lulz to be honest. But nobody was around so I knew we couldn't do it (only me+kita's votes were up for that). Damn...that would have been funny as fuck. EDIT: Maybe not THAT close, but the thought ocurred in my mind. Specially when Wave asked me if there were going to be shenanies. I instantly thought "lol let's lynch Toad at the last minute" | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On February 02 2014 06:52 Toadesstern wrote: Marv didn't play MTG Yeah...again, don't make me remember it again >_> But the sentiment is the same. Feeling betrayed, without hope ;_; RIP Ned Stark | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
(to a lesser extent) the players of this game to get better at the game. (and have fun, well all games are but this one more than most) Its also true that anyone simply watching can also use it highly profitably as a learning exercise. I did. So thank you. As a counterpoint (a contra example of what the game wasn't) There is a, rather too often appropriate, cartoon around about mafia and pants on head, and the mob mentality. Reading other games to learn, all the pants keep getting in the way. While reading those kind of games tells me a lot about mafia and fashion sense, that is not the game I came to learn to play. One thing I learned from this game. As this is true.... On February 02 2014 04:34 austinmcc wrote: So as long as other people do...easier to point to things, it becomes much easier to push lynches on OTHER scummy players. So yeah none of the mislynches were totally terrible, I had itchy feelings about (almost) everyone in the game at some point. Then this,.... who Marv (and others voted) day 1 was IMO given way too much weight in peoples decision making. On February 02 2014 03:56 Toadesstern wrote: .... and marv was unlynchable the first 3 cycles because he voted Sandroba. And if that's the only mafias left in the game then yeah stuff like VE, Foolishness and Prome happens. I know the one time I played scum and had any idea what I was doing, who I voted D1 would have had little merit as an indicator of my alignment. However I agree for Marv to actually get lynched(not just suspected), every OTHER actual towny would have had to play their socks off. Foolish coulda done it, but only if he had started from a similarly 'yeah fool must be town' too place in thread sentiment. I need to go back and reread the game, but I think VE's actual towny reads, were challenged and VE considered scummy at least in part because VE didn't weight the D1 vote enough. I know reading VE as not the lynch of the day D2 was hard but for me, it was the mislynch I think I wouldn't have been on. The other thing Id try to learn is at the end of D1, Gonzaw, was righteously and townily stoked to have lynched scum with a shennanie. I suspect that while that is a good thing, it was not constructive for the future thread interactions with other players, notably VE. Not going to suggest what if anything Gonzaw ought do about that, (that is a complex personal thing apart from the respect I have for gonzaw as a better player than me) However what it does raise for me is the possibility of getting tunneled by the positive. "I am hyped we lynched scum vibe", when I used to play badminton this is what we called getting a rush of blood. Rather than methodically driving home the advantage, you try and slam the shuttle cock into the the opponents court. The usual result is oops. Normally tunneled, is an OMGUS based negative interaction, I have learned I need to watch myself for the other kind as well. | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On February 02 2014 03:56 Toadesstern wrote: + Show Spoiler [the TLDR bits] + there wasn't anywhere to go though. I was pretty much confirmed town and marv was unlynchable the first 3 cycles because he voted Sandroba. And if that's the only mafias left in the game then yeah stuff like VE, Foolishness and Prome happens. Marv kept people busy by talking a bunch and getting people to talk about him and prome because we knew that with me around even if there was some change of opinion Marv would never ever be lynched before Prome (as it did turn out, heck we even lynched Austin for shitz and giggles) and I had easy play to look like the most townie town that ever towned a town because I could just sit back and look like a lost puppy outside in the rain that people want to embrace and safe from this brutal world. With all the talk being about Marv&Prome no time for people to reevaluate me and I was basicly holding town hostage with my one vote they thought they'd need to get mafia lynched. If there ever was such a thing as strategy involved in this, that's the gist of it. I have seen people with 'ideas' of scum strategies, mainly they seem pretty bleh to me. This has two critical aspects that make it for me a 'next level' scum strategy The first is little esoteric and is embodied in "If there ever was such a thing as strategy involved" which is in and of itself part of the strategy to me. The second is more clearly strategy "that's the gist of it" (referring to the details in the spoiler.) What makes it next level for me, is how many(few) finger prints it leaves behind. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
The whole thing revolved on trying to figure out possible scumteams, and super busses, and whatnot, because, well, lots of people found Foo and Prome "scummy", while others found them "townie", so it become a thread-fest of speculation. "Oh, Foo and Prome must be scum together!" "No! Foo and Toad are scum together!" "No! They must be town together, in which case Toad and VE are scum!" "NOOOOO. Prome is scum with marv pushing town Foo!" Their alignments were a mystery until it was too late (N3...and well endgame). I think maybe we could have lynched Foo or Prome on D2. It could have made more stuff clear, to get a better read of the game by D3 (not that it would guarantee town to play better though). D2 was the "town fucked up" point basically. People that needed to post were AFK (Foo, VE, Prome), it was just the same guys posting over and over (me+marv+Wave). There were some bad pushes (like Foo's on Wave) that didn't give much info, and the VE lynch was basically a policy lynch so nobody really got any good info from it (e.g Prome and marv just voted him out of nowhere I believe, without a case or anything). Meh | ||
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AxleGreaser
Australia1154 Posts
On February 02 2014 01:19 marvellosity wrote: + Show Spoiler + On February 01 2014 23:51 Crossfire99 wrote: I think a lot of it comes down to that playing in a game is so much different from just observing it. It isn't even about not having the obs qt or not. You have no real investment as an observer and can be "neutral," but while playing there is a lot more opportunity to be swayed be emotions and be caught up in thread sentiment because you're playing with these people not watching them play. Basically this. Like I actually agree that I think in general I should be fairly easy to spot. Yet in game... things consistently turn out differently. edit: it's *always* the people *out* of game who think I'm fairly obvious scum. Which is fine. I probably am :D But somehow, almost never people in the game think that way. + Show Spoiler + On February 01 2014 21:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Such a whiner. You have no idea. Artanis is being quite kind ^_^ There is an incredibly strong effect that can produce this, and unless observers apply, serious due dilligence they will naturally lie to themselves, + Show Spoiler + (not a criticism of the people, its fact about the human species observing things and having an extremely strong pattern matching tendency)AKA I promise the above is true and based on formal scientific knowledge. I have repeatedly observed and measured my brain lying to me after the fact in hindsight. Hindsight is 20 20 for very good reason, it lies to you and me. Unless the observers who tell you, after the game "yeah I knew you were scum", also tell you "and I wrote it down here on my one and only list of reads that I made before lynch Dx" (aka they effectively voted for exactly one lynch dujor, or made exactly one lynch priority list, while observing. Then what they really have told you is they remember thinking you might be scum and thinking it lot. Whats lot harder is to remeber to list everything else they thought and at what time. Personally I was 100% right on scum, I thought everyone was scum at some point in the game, (although i never thought it about Gonzaw much) so yeah see, ... go me I caught marv... well maybe not. In truth, as an outside observer, most of the time, Marv was higher on my list of scummers than most people playing the game seemed to think. However if I was invested in the game, I think the option of lynching Marv the day after mislynching foolish wouldn't seem real clever. (Courage of my convictions would hence be another thing to learn.) TLDR: Observing game from outside and reaching >>>valid conclusions<<< is IMO an altogether different skill set that only partially overlaps playing the game from the inside. While its valuable tool: Handle with caution. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Actually, stuff on Toad was mostly missed or forgotten. I don't remember anybody's stance on Toad, other than austin vehemently calling him town because BRAINZ, and Wave getting angry at him (before D3 at least). | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On February 02 2014 07:45 gonzaw wrote: I think my problem in this game is that I tried to keep tabs on almost every single thing that I missed a lot of details. For instance stuff to press people on (like what Toad said above, that he didn't read any of Foo's cases. Could have easily been caught by just asking him "What do you think of the cases on Foo?"). Actually, stuff on Toad was mostly missed or forgotten. I don't remember anybody's stance on Toad, other than austin vehemently calling him town because BRAINZ, and Wave getting angry at him (before D3 at least). yeah the funny thing is Marv didn't realize that either and only knew about Austin giving me a strong townread. He was suprised that "suddenly" everyone had me as town when I saw it comming a lot sooner. Sure I was suprised that it was such a strong townread from everyone but I was certain I'm doing quite good all along [except for those 10 minutes when you voted me Gonzaw] and Marv was so suprised he said that maybe we should send me into lylo instead of him. There were actually situations like you mentioned as well. When WoS asked about that one post to look up a couple hours prior to endgame. I said it's a post from Marv and I actually found it, I really didn't know if it's the one he was referring to because I had no context so I just told him I can't find it. That's what I meant with "let other people do things as well and let them post". You just can't keep tabs on everything and if you intend to you're just missing out and doing a poor job with it (imo). | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Dunno, maybe stuff would have gotten better by just letting things flow. I just get the feeling that if I stop posting nothing will happen at all (e.g remember the start of D3? Exactly like that) | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 02 2014 06:28 Keirathi wrote: I just think it was off. If he wants to make fun of me for it, that's fine, and if he wants to ask what I'm talking about, or why I feel so strongly, or something like that, it's fine. But that question itself was something he knew the answer to, and the answer had nothing to do with anything. As either alignment I'd believe what I was typing, so it's not alignment-indicative of me, and it's not alignment-indicative to marv about Toad (whether he's town OR scum), so it meant nothing. But it wasn't a joke or mocking, it felt like he was legitimately asking this absolutely useless question.@austin: that question that you called marv scum for was probably the "towniest" thing he posted all game :o Edit: Which is weird in itself, of course. But it was probably the most forceful/aggressive post he made in the entire game, and his town game is consistently full of quips like that. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
...you won't like it most likely  | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 02 2014 11:00 gonzaw wrote: Oh, no. I take the non-sarcastic reading.Austin...read obs qt for my take on that "question" ...you won't like it most likely marv is more than happy to tell me i'm being an idiot, or that I'm entirely wrong on something. Usually he does that in a more colorful way (austin is my cat, austin has been put here to challenge me, etc. etc.) generally, when he's trying to mock me for being super right about everything, he does so in a more playful/colorful way, he enjoys the process. a dry question is not what i expect from mocking or sarcastic marv, at least not with any kind of colorful followup | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Okay, you can say that "scum sarcastic marv" is less playful/colorful than "town sarcastic marv". But the point remains that THAT was a sarcastic response. So either it's "scum sarcastic marv" or "town sarcastic marv", and yes use meta whatever to try and determine which one. But...just don't say it was a legitimate serious question or something >_> I had you as scum in the obs qt for quite a while because of the stuff you said austin lol | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On February 02 2014 10:52 austinmcc wrote: I just think it was off. If he wants to make fun of me for it, that's fine, and if he wants to ask what I'm talking about, or why I feel so strongly, or something like that, it's fine. But that question itself was something he knew the answer to, and the answer had nothing to do with anything. As either alignment I'd believe what I was typing, so it's not alignment-indicative of me, and it's not alignment-indicative to marv about Toad (whether he's town OR scum), so it meant nothing. But it wasn't a joke or mocking, it felt like he was legitimately asking this absolutely useless question. No, it was sarcasm  | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Not that I blame you, we all had derp moments (except kita I guess; kita's awesome). | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
THIS one's sarcastic, so we know the other really wasn't sarcasm, and ... he was caught. Certainly. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Tell me if the next sentence is sarcasm, or not: This sentence is sarcasm If you can't answer correctly, I'm afraid we'll have to send you to the Mafia Rehabilitation Center Psych Ward. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On February 02 2014 12:49 gonzaw wrote: The only correct answer is that, based on the punctuation, that post only contains two sentences, the little bit more and then asking me to identify a future sentence as sarcasm.Okay austin, let's test you a little bit more. Tell me if the next sentence is sarcasm, or not: If you can't answer correctly, I'm afraid we'll have to send you to the Mafia Rehabilitation Center Psych Ward. So...I guess I just wait for "the next sentence"? I am fully aware that I'm unconvincing here, and I'm trollish in some responses, but serious that my marv read really changed based on that question, right or wrong. I promise not to tell any shadows or newbies to do this. EDIT: MWAHAHAHAHAHA | ||
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