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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
On December 11 2013 23:53 Plutarch wrote: I find it incredible that you are casting suspicion on two of the most clearly town people in the game. Also typical of my style. See every game in my filter ever. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
On December 11 2013 23:51 Plutarch wrote: This is a good point actually. I read through that game and spag appeared to be clearly town. This game he is scummy as shit. That game (and note that I've already stated this and you didn't like that I did) I had a very strong read. Out of my five previous games I'm pretty sure last one is the only one in which I caught scumsign that early. Thinking that one datapoint a trend makes is particularly wrong in this case. I'm usually under fire for being active but not having strong reads. If you are who I think you are Plutarch, you know this (meant for Plutarch only, if it's inapplicable, ignore). | ||
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Spaghetticus
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On December 12 2013 00:03 JarJarDrinks wrote: Wait, so you agree that they're "two of the most clearly town people in the game"? I agree that pluto has established his towniness well, but I'm also thrown into wifom by who I think he is. I don't think Kush is established at all, but rayne has also done a fairly good job establishing himself prior to this. Assuming we're talking about Pluto and Rayne, I agree that they are both established as town, but I don't think them strongly town (thought they were initially in my reads). | ||
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Spaghetticus
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Kush is either town or way better at impression management than I give him credit for. I void any of my initial reads on Plutarch based on this, but his responses are interesting to me. | ||
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Spaghetticus
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Maybe if you twist my words just a little I'll just come out and say "I'm scum" There is a difference between who I think is town and who I think others think are town. That this is what sways your vote is disappointing. Why not look at Pluto's meta-case, that's a lot more convincing. Srsly, I'd FOS you bit I'm running out of fingers. Logic plz. | ||
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Spaghetticus
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Spaghetticus
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He had the opportunity to annihilate me but didn't. He's actually interested in who is town or not. His vote would have been the absolute nail in the coffin. If he were scum, he'd want me lynched over the current contender (slam). This shouldn't mean anything to you yet. Write a note! | ||
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Spaghetticus
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Spaghetticus
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No, the thought was genuine, but I never expected it to get anyone lynched. That it generated discussion was part of my intention, but I truly did think these things. @JarJar He wasn't being pressured. By 'shit got real' I mean that something meaningful was happening. Look at his position. My case wasn't even intended to pressure, and he has the two most established town at his back. There was zero pressure, he came forward voluntarily once he saw something that he thought was important. | ||
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Spaghetticus
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I have that feeling you get when you've got the active players against you, and everyone currently afk is about to walk in and lynch according to who is unpopular, rather than actually go through the process themselves. Five hours until lynch and I want people to be well informed. What are your thoughts on me? Let me defend myself~! | ||
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Spaghetticus
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I'm sick of your mindless aggression. At least I go through each of my motions. | ||
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Spaghetticus
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I know that not making cases as scum is bad. I learned my lesson. If I were scum, there'd be nothing stopping me from posting a case, I'd just shit one together and tunnel to my hearts content. I've been given enough material to make a case (refer to when I pointed out to Corazon that it would not go well for him if I did), but I don't have any reads that I believe enough to put my name on. It would be so easy to shit up a case, but I don't want to be the guy at the head of a mislynch. As scum I have no reason not to post cases. As town I do. | ||
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Spaghetticus
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On December 12 2013 01:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: No it's pretty simple. All people wanted from you was to tell who you think is mafia. You have not done so. Instead you have made everything else that contributes nothing to the game. That's it, that's why you are mafia. I have said who I think is mafia, to the degree I think them mafia. Are you so ego-centric to think there are no people in the world less confident than you? | ||
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Spaghetticus
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 12 2013 00:16 Plutarch wrote: This is actually bullshit. I just went and look through your previous two town games and the quality of your posts and scum hunting were much better than in this game. [g]Town[/g] LXIII: This post was very solid and made at the start of day one. [g]Town[/g] NMM XXXIV: This post and This where both very solid and made early day one. In this game you have done nothing but appear active. Firstly, the easy dismissal: LXIII: This is the exception I’ve been claiming. This is the time that I was able to catch scumsign early, grabbed a hold, and stayed on it until I was blue sniped N1. It turned out VA was an assassin, but I don’t differentiate between the two as town. Also worth noting to all you others that are attacking me, is that VA was considered the townest town. He was elected mayor even after I tried my hardest to tear him down. Telling me that I don’t attack people that are established town is bullshit. Being confused by what I mean between who I think is town and who I think is established town is bullshit, as this game, which everyone here is referring to, is clearly evidence that such a distinction exists and that I am correct to draw it. You have no excuse if this is the reasoning for your suspicions (JarJar). Also, the post that he refers to here IMO was solid, but it was not received that way. It was ignored and people continued to find reason to hassle me until Artanis pretty much proved me town (<3). In that scenario I was also starting from behind, and needed to put myself directly into the game. This game I was here from the start and had a continual interaction. NMM XXXIV This is more damning, but the evidence is mixed, and I think eventually comes out in my favour when I show you what lead up to my lynch. Read the posts Pluto linked. I think the worst thing, other than the discrepancy in length, is this My standard play is to actually post cases day one. My play last game was non-standard because through a mixture of laziness and curiosity, I attempted to get through day one by both being active and not scum hunting. It did not work. While I expect I will continue to tinker with this element of the game, I have scaled down my experimentation for the sake of my self-esteem (and town win-rate). You already know most of my meta from XXXIII. I am highly analytical and loathe posting accusations that imply a reality I do not believe. I adhere to theory over empiricism, which gives me difficulties with the more aggressive players. I play for the long game, and think little of the chance of day one scum lynches. I try to encourage town play through indirect means. I emphasise original content, and am strongly averse to bandwagoning and recycling opinions. I try to keep a flexible understanding of the game, but am having difficulties converting flexible thinking into anything but WIFOM (hence the LAL update). As this contradicts everything I have said this game. This looks bad, awful even, until you take into account that I was then lynched this game for not scumhunting (I was cop). It appears, that just as in this game, I started by talking myself up, and then failed to meet my standard of contribution. It’s a pattern of optimism when it comes to effort. The following is worth reading if you are interested in seeing people’s perception of me some time after the post which Pluto posted. It is long, but rich in information, and important for you to read if you want to avoid a mislynch. See the parallels in the attack? They reflect my actions after that post that has been praised up as the exemplar of my town play. You don’t have to read all of it, but a browse will definitely do you good. Here is the post that killed me: + Show Spoiler + On January 08 2013 02:07 zarepath wrote: Okay, was waiting before I posted this but running out of time: Why Spag is scum: + Show Spoiler + This is broken into several pieces. First is consistent non-contributions: + Show Spoiler + First real post is a list with resources, and a plan to pursue "more standard play" which involves not being as passive. On Day 1, the majority of Spag's posts are lists (people who played last game), theory (lying town, LAL), the fact that he has null reads on people, comments on the weather, and more theory, and more theory, and even more theory. What happened to standard play with case analysis? Instead he goes off on lurkers, talks about TeMiL being a lurker, and then doesn't actually end up voting for him. Read through Spag's filter Day 1 and just look at the number of posts he made that contributed literally zero to forwarding analysis on any single individual. The only real analysis he does is to suspect-but-not-suspect Mocsta and OE, and retaliations to Mocsta for going after his soft townie claim. He condemns the countries thing (easy), too. Now look at everything since then. More theory and numbers and probabilities, talking about talking about coaches (when he's already done it himself), most of his analysis is about TeMiL and the potential possibilities depending upon who he is, which involves zero analysis because he hasn't even posted -- talk about easy prey. Asks if there was a second role block, all of the possible setups, if others have seen blue slips -- so on, et cetera. It's not that these are necessarily bad things, but these are all things that are very, very easy for mafia to do. After saying he was going to do standard play, he hasn't made any compelling cases, just theorycrafted and said "great post" to other people's analysis. His latest post isn't analysis, but the people who could be persuaded to vote for. Mafia love bieng persuaded to vote for people; they don't have to make the case. He casts suspicions without putting himself out there for it -- very carefully crafted non-suspicions that are still suspicions: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2013 03:53 Spaghetticus wrote: @OmniEulogy I get a scum read off you... but... I am not going to pursue you if I can help it. Your process is so alien to me I can't really fathom your motives. I would like other people to apply scrutiny while I look elsewhere. I just can't see you as not scum, but this was true in XXXIII and you flipped town. Please people, before you attribute a scumbuddy relationship here... ... ... ... this is too high profile and obvious. My contribution will be substantial elsewhere, I genuinely feel my objectivity is compromised entirely when dealing with Omni. This is town motivated and too bold a risk for too little a reward to be a scum ploy. I have reasonable town motive, I don't want this post to haunt me. On January 03 2013 23:01 Spaghetticus wrote: You have also been leaping on irrelevant details (from my perspective), inflating them beyond their importance. Soft claiming 'not scum' is far too crass a move for my style and you know it. I can see that you are doing everything you can to promote town activity, and I believe this is within what is reasonable to expect from you, so I won't call scum read on this. I would like to point out however, that picking on small and probably* meaningless discrepancies is a great scum tactic for promoting confusion, and so would suggest you lay off the UberHolmsing On January 05 2013 03:12 Spaghetticus wrote: That being said, I approve of your suspicion of Mocsta's final words before bed. I have scrutinised this action and it comes off as RL problems, but I could be biased. Is there any more that you wish to add to concerning Mocsta's scummy behaviour? It does remind me a lot of your scummy tunneling in XXXIII. Mocsta may seem untouchable now but anything you can force from him when he does make a slip such as now could be vital later on. Note that anything someone ELSE could do to find Mocsta scummy would be great -- because Spag just might be biased. On January 05 2013 03:12 Spaghetticus wrote: Just so you know, I have a note in my word pad about your efforts to preserve lurkers. To Corazon -- again, no real analysis, just a cast suspicion. Maybe fairly innocent here, but what is the town motive for this post? On January 05 2013 12:31 Spaghetticus wrote: @Mocsta I actually did not promise to make a case against Omni, I distinctly stated that while I feel he is scummy, I do not want to be the one making the case, as I have massive bias. I have been directing attention to him as nobody seems to be picking up on his loose play. In the absence of a case, I will likely make one, but I am busy and have other people I would like to pursue. If Corazon feels up to the task, this would be optimal from my perspective. Note that he explicitly asks Corazon to take up the case, a now-confirmed townie. If he can get Corazon to push the OE town flip and take the blame, two birds, right? Especially upon being called out for the soft town claim on the QT thing, he was very defensive, which only seems odd in comparison to the lack of rigor in his analysis in the rest of the thread. What is consistent is his emotions, which is much easier for mafia to do than actual analysis: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2013 11:52 Spaghetticus wrote: In regard to your 'soft buddy claim' on me, this is shocking. I honestly feel helpless in regard to this. I'm sorry to wash my hands of you in such a way On January 03 2013 23:01 Spaghetticus wrote: You have also been leaping on irrelevant details (from my perspective), inflating them beyond their importance. Soft claiming 'not scum' is far too crass a move for my style and you know it. I can see that you are doing everything you can to promote town activity, and I believe this is within what is reasonable to expect from you, so I won't call scum read on this. I would like to point out however, that picking on small and probably* meaningless discrepancies is a great scum tactic for promoting confusion, and so would suggest you lay off the UberHolmsing His first defense to the soft town slip; very defensive, and tries to undermine the town's most contributing member in the process, and make it about his own reads instead of everyone else's reads on him. Note that between this and his comments on OE, he makes a big deal about his own non-reads -- the people he suspects but doesn't currently think are mafia. On January 04 2013 00:45 Spaghetticus wrote: With respect, you are not listening. I just don't like that tone -- I don't think it benefits town. Not a lot by itself. On January 08 2013 00:35 Spaghetticus wrote: I've never use the phrase before. I was trying it out. Faaaark. A better response would probably be "Just a slip of words." Really? NEVER used the phrase "closing out a game?" On January 06 2013 09:28 Spaghetticus wrote: @Mocsta Omni's post you quoted was ridiculous, and made me epic mad. The fact that you decided to support it makes me both confused and furious. ...WTF? On January 07 2013 21:06 Spaghetticus wrote: Is this sarcasm? You are allowing the imagination to go almost anywhere with your provocative comments. I know what an NK is, or do you think Omni's insight superior? Treating an NK as anything but what I called it Would be absolutely fracking retarded. It does not take a scum to know that this is how an NK works, it doesn't even take a particularly well informed town. How do YOU think we should think about NK's? Am I wrong? Do you think it beyond my intelligence to infer this much with both my penchant for theory crafting and the abundance of guides laying around? You don't even know whether I use coaches or not and you assume that I don't know what an NK is? This is like the umpteenth time you have either uncharitably appraised my motive or been incongruous in your understanding of my thoughts. This is the first time it's sounded like you might want to make a case. Your thoughts on me are required anyway, as either you me or Syl die tonight. On January 07 2013 22:48 Spaghetticus wrote: F5ed to find yet another arrogant response. Wanna know why I think you are overconfident? BECAUSE ITS NOT A QUOTE FROM ME. LOOK AT THE FRICKING AUTHOR. You are playing fast and lose, and you're making some big mistakes. I know that if I talked to a coach, he'd tell me I need to play less conservative with my reads, but you are batshitcrazyliberal with yours and I think this sort of play will end with a loss for town. All of the above just seem way too over the top to produce any kind of positive town discussion. He has also consistently asked for information or operated mistakenly based on what he assumed was information in the OP, which again a townie might do if they're ignorant,, but he makes a big case out of not being ignorant. These strike me more as efforts to discuss fringe details that wouldn't be worth teh discussion if he actually wanted to know the answer and just read the OP: + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2013 09:48 Spaghetticus wrote: Wait what? am I reading the OP correctly? is a tie a no-lynch? I swear I second checked it to make sure it was plurality? On January 06 2013 09:04 Spaghetticus wrote: Shit I thought we had more time. On January 05 2013 00:28 Spaghetticus wrote: Ew. I didn't realise how little time we had. I don't like Mocsta's absence, as it both deprives us of a valued player and Really? They tell you every single mod post how close we are to the next deadline, and I think it was you who asked for everybody's time zones, and it was you who called for everyone's testimonies before the end of the night. How could you possibly miss that deadline? On January 03 2013 13:25 Spaghetticus wrote: @Corazon or Zare Do scum get access to their private thread immediately or do they have a period of non-communication. I have seen a scum chat before but this detail eludes me. Are scum able to communicate right now? The first soft town claim. Still very suspect even though discussion about it has been dropped. On January 04 2013 19:59 Spaghetticus wrote: Is the following question allowed? Do not respond until I have an answer from mod. Jampi. You claim to have talked to a coach that was not quick to respond. Tell me when you posted and when the response came. For someone so concerned with all of this readily available information, he doesn't go to much effort to actually find out -- he just wants the credit of contribution without contributing. He's also said a lot of things that simply aren't good logic. I can see this in a townie for sure, but here it just means that his only contributions are simply bad contributions. + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2013 10:31 Spaghetticus wrote: Basically, unless we have very bold scum, I believe there was at most one scum voting for StiX. Wow, that carries a lot of assumptions that a genuine townie probably wouldn't want to make. If only it were that easy. On January 06 2013 20:25 Spaghetticus wrote: I remember reading in some guide that reductive lists and town reads are counterproductive on Day 1 -- by far it's better to make proactive analysis cases, which Spag hasn't produced at all. All of his "reads" have been reactionary and off the hip. This is more of that assumption-led logic that he had above.I think everyone should make a reductive list of who they won't be pursuing day two. I won't be pursuing:- On January 05 2013 13:00 Spaghetticus wrote: The honeypot is a ploy where a town seduces a scum into revealing himself by making an obvious minor blunder. If someone tries to come in and inflate the minor mistake into a major one when this is outside your read on them, then you have likely found reason to suspect them. A mafia wants to put emphasis on irrelevant or clumsily executed arguments, rather than ones that actually contribute to catching them. If this style sounds familiar, that is because I claimed this exact ploy earlier when explaining my 'slip'. My honeypot was more improvisation than anything, as I actually wanted to know about the mafia QT, but it was a honeypot none the less. Why did no analysis come out of this honeypot, and he was extremely defensive for it at the time? Sounds like a band-aid for an earlier mistake while also spending tons of thread space on THEORY. On Day 2. On January 07 2013 20:07 Spaghetticus wrote: @Mocsta. I change who I pressure a lot, I do not change my vote a lot. So far I have voted TeMiL, and switched to StriX in day one, and voted for TeMiL in day two, though this could change as well if he'd show up and defend himself. Ummm, he switched OFF of TeMiL day 1, condemned Corazon for wanting to lynch TeMiL on day 2, and then talked about how it would be best for us to leave him be. Now Day 2 he wants to lynch TeMiL again. There is no rhyme or reason, but tons and tons of theory talk. Here are all of Spag's soft town claims that, together, just seem too convenient: On January 06 2013 09:17 Spaghetticus wrote: My will loses a lot of credibility due to me not posting it before the deadline. This is damn unfortunate. No duh! If you were town you would make darn sure it was posted before the deadline. If you were mafia there's not as much pressure. On January 03 2013 13:25 Spaghetticus wrote: @Corazon or Zare Do scum get access to their private thread immediately or do they have a period of non-communication. I have seen a scum chat before but this detail eludes me. Are scum able to communicate right now? Covered earlier. If this detail eludes him, he would either read the OP -- and if he were really after the answer, he'd put the question in green for the mod (which he does later to a different soft-claim question, but not this one). On January 04 2013 00:20 Spaghetticus wrote: I have never been scum, and I’ve always assumed they had immediate and direct communication . In between this game, and last, however, I came across some information that implied that scum were alone to begin with, and got the QT come night. He never answered my question as to what that info was, or where. He's explaiend multiple different reasons for his soft-claim at this point -- this weird honeypot idea which he didn't take advantage of at all if he used it, he was simply lazy in the moment, he came across a mysterious piece of info that led him to believe otherwise, and yet he still wasn't sure enough to know but not curious enough to find out but still curious enough to ask the thread but not curious enough to ask the mods directly. On January 06 2013 09:11 Spaghetticus wrote: GG well played Corazon. Thank Christ you managed to post a will on time, as I thought I still had 10-15 minutes, and Mocsta was a no show. This is a little bit like praising the medic. Oh, phew! So glad you got that out! On January 04 2013 19:59 Spaghetticus wrote: Is the following question allowed? Do not respond until I have an answer from mod. Jampi. You claim to have talked to a coach that was not quick to respond. Tell me when you posted and when the response came. Implicit here is the idea that he also has communicated with a townie coach, and can verify whether or not Jampi had access to one or not or is lying. Also here is him conveniently not reading the OP (whereas elsewhere he is incredibly defensive about the idea that he wouldn't read the OP or Mafia guides) so he can take credit for a move forward in analysis that doesn't actually exist, or is even legal. A for effort and all that. On January 07 2013 21:06 Spaghetticus wrote: Your thoughts on me are required anyway, as either you me or Syl die tonight. Of course he'll die, because he's contributed so much and is a townie and the mafia would love to take him out! what luck that he survived! /spoiler] The final piece here is an analysis of his voting: + Show Spoiler + He made such a big deal about LAL all day, but flung his vote to StriX when Mocstra and myself suddenly went for OE, essentially assuring that StriX would be lynched when it was possible that there'd be a bandwagon lynch of OE. Day 2, who is he talking about again? TeMiL. It seems to me that the only person he wants to talk about is the person who's contributed the least, but the person he actually votes for will be done without clear, building analysis. Now I discounted Spag because I thought he responded well to that first slip, but now that I look back on it, I was mostly impressed by his rigorous defense (read: length of defense) and his general thread presence. But after looking at his actual thread presence, I'm convinced that it is not helping town at all, and persuaded that all of the factors that I've outlined above lead to a clear read of Spag as mafia. I will be busy for most of the rest of the day but will try to check in on this thread as much as possible, but from here on out I am pushing Spag hard. ##Vote: Spaghetticus | ||
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Spaghetticus
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