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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=437262
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7448 Posts
November 25 2013 11:03 GMT
#1901
On November 25 2013 19:52 Aquanim wrote:
@Alakaslam

Suppose I label the corners of a triangle in order of their acuteness. If I was to look upon you with the eyes of your vaunted chupazi, which corner would I see?

The third triangle, which is totally unique?


Good Morning everyone!! or rather is it night...
lol, clueless in The Prism!
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7448 Posts
November 25 2013 11:03 GMT
#1902
On November 25 2013 16:06 thrawn2112 wrote:
Chezinu, who is the dragon? Who is the sun?

That is for the police marshal to know.
lol, clueless in The Prism!
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7448 Posts
November 25 2013 11:09 GMT
#1903
Sometimes being too good with your reads can get you killed. That happened to me one game. Town was all like, your reads are too accurate all day. You mafia die!!!! Yeah.. that really happened. true story.

The police hate the fact that I would not place my hand against my own brother. It shows that I'm unique and am an individual - not a robot. The soundness of illogical, these robots do not understand. They mock the idea the the Chezinu Rule for they can not compute. The Chezinu Rule has never failed. It's accuracy in experimental trials has been 100% so far. Yet, it still requires faith to follow despite its proven past. Some think logic is more important, much like the robots. But I say, faith>logic.
lol, clueless in The Prism!
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
November 25 2013 11:10 GMT
#1904
On November 25 2013 20:03 Chezinu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 19:52 Aquanim wrote:
@Alakaslam

Suppose I label the corners of a triangle in order of their acuteness. If I was to look upon you with the eyes of your vaunted chupazi, which corner would I see?

The third triangle, which is totally unique?


Good Morning everyone!! or rather is it night...

That rather depends on your perspective.

I have a question for you, Isunizehc.

Is it your opinion that this game is composed entirely of the brown and its component colours, or that there might be other, darker shades exerting a corrupting influence?
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7448 Posts
November 25 2013 11:18 GMT
#1905
On November 25 2013 20:10 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2013 20:03 Chezinu wrote:
On November 25 2013 19:52 Aquanim wrote:
@Alakaslam

Suppose I label the corners of a triangle in order of their acuteness. If I was to look upon you with the eyes of your vaunted chupazi, which corner would I see?

The third triangle, which is totally unique?


Good Morning everyone!! or rather is it night...

That rather depends on your perspective.

I have a question for you, Isunizehc.

Is it your opinion that this game is composed entirely of the brown and its component colours, or that there might be other, darker shades exerting a corrupting influence?

oh yeah, this game totally isn't basic. That makes this game hilarious.
lol, clueless in The Prism!
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 11:31 GMT
#1906
On November 25 2013 20:09 Chezinu wrote:
Sometimes being too good with your reads can get you killed. That happened to me one game. Town was all like, your reads are too accurate all day. You mafia die!!!! Yeah.. that really happened. true story.

The police hate the fact that I would not place my hand against my own brother. It shows that I'm unique and am an individual - not a robot. The soundness of illogical, these robots do not understand. They mock the idea the the Chezinu Rule for they can not compute. The Chezinu Rule has never failed. It's accuracy in experimental trials has been 100% so far. Yet, it still requires faith to follow despite its proven past. Some think logic is more important, much like the robots. But I say, faith>logic.

So Unizehc is statign he is scum with Sciberbia.

& Sciberbia is telling him what to do in the scum QT.

Awesome.
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
November 25 2013 11:37 GMT
#1907
I have another question.

Earlier in this game, the fate of Rayn fell from the heavens to the grave, precipitated by this post and those which came after.

What do you think the attitude of the red was to the fate of Rayn? Jubilation? Direct support? Indifference?
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
November 25 2013 11:39 GMT
#1908
EBWOP: Bear in mind the washing away of all cases which had come before.
sciberbia
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1359 Posts
November 25 2013 12:26 GMT
#1909
@cDgCorazon
I don't really like the idea of formalizing a town circle. I think that our efforts are better spent scumhunting than discussing who we will let into our town circle and what we will do together. Also it seems kinda douchy lol

But I do agree that we were stalemated D2 due to our needing the lurkers to post in order to make progress, combined with the lurkers not posting. It was frustrating. I'm in favor of applying more pressure with votes on D3. Not only does it focre lurkers to delurk but it also forces people to take a stand with their vote.
sciberbia
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1359 Posts
November 25 2013 12:30 GMT
#1910
Can anyone tell me what does C.B. stands for? Mocsta keeps using it.

Looking at Onegu now.
sciberbia
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1359 Posts
November 25 2013 12:31 GMT
#1911
EBWOP nevermind just got it
CB = confirmation biased
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7448 Posts
November 25 2013 12:40 GMT
#1912
On November 25 2013 21:26 sciberbia wrote:
@cDgCorazon
I don't really like the idea of formalizing a town circle. I think that our efforts are better spent scumhunting than discussing who we will let into our town circle and what we will do together. Also it seems kinda douchy lol

But I do agree that we were stalemated D2 due to our needing the lurkers to post in order to make progress, combined with the lurkers not posting. It was frustrating. I'm in favor of applying more pressure with votes on D3. Not only does it focre lurkers to delurk but it also forces people to take a stand with their vote.

I see mostly lurkers posting lately.
lol, clueless in The Prism!
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
November 25 2013 12:56 GMT
#1913
Am I going to get an answer to that last question Chez?
sciberbia
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1359 Posts
November 25 2013 13:03 GMT
#1914
On November 25 2013 14:22 Mocsta wrote:
Q for you Scibs.

My interpretation of that list post from Onegu. Do you think that is flawed logic.

I have to admit, reading your cases on Onegu made me doubt my read -- which is concerning to me.
+ the whole act of sole tunnel on me is reminding me of how i played scum in personality 2 (where I tunneled Corazon into infinity and let the thread believe i was just that C.B.)


@Mocsta
Ditto what Aquanim said regarding your list post. I don't really understand your argument so perhaps you should rephrase it.

Reading Onegu's D2 filter especially near the end, is enough to make me feel a gut town read on him. Posts like this just feel really genuine to me:
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 25 2013 10:44 Onegu wrote:
You all better vote me or mocsta.

And when you lynch me actually read the fucking case on mocsta, I stayed up until 5am writeing that thing and all of you dont even read it.

Also cora when he links shit for slam to read he didnt even link my mocsta case.

And I didnt cherrypick anything, read the damn case, then read mocsta filter and tell me what relevant info I left out.

Back to sleep

##lawlaiddown

On November 25 2013 11:32 Onegu wrote:
This lynch is going to end badly, its my own damn fault, If I could push my scum reads becaus I myself are scummy, or say things clear enough where people will actually read the case.



I can really empathize with his emotion here. If he is scum that is some damn fine acting.

Tunneling in and of itself isn't scummy. You have to look at how/why he is doing it. I think his infinity tunnel would be suspicious if
(1) he kept repeating the same few points over and over even after you had addressed them
(2) he didn't actually try to push your lynch, or
(3) he used his tunnel as an excuse not to address anything else in the thread

Point (3) may partially apply, but I don't think (1) and (2) do at all. In fact he keeps bringing up new points on you despite your lack of addressing his old ones. And he even got 3 votes on you yesterday.

Also I'd appreciate it if you could actually respond to some of his points instead of just dismissing them. Some of them I thought were valid. Thinking particularly of his points about your jamp read on D1.
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7448 Posts
November 25 2013 13:05 GMT
#1915
On November 25 2013 21:56 Aquanim wrote:
Am I going to get an answer to that last question Chez?

oh, didn't know that was directed at me. I didn't read the thread from before I joined really. I'm a reactionary reader.
lol, clueless in The Prism!
Mocsta
Profile Joined December 2012
Australia9388 Posts
November 25 2013 13:09 GMT
#1916
If I'm alive I will respond to his case scibs.

I don't think a single thing is valid - mainly cos I know my role PM.
He may have picked out bad play, but I always had towns intention at <3

Looks like the jampi/Chezinu lynch is full go tomorrow anyways
sciberbia
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1359 Posts
November 25 2013 13:27 GMT
#1917
I feel a bit lost right now because between JJD flipping town and Onegu looking townie to me there suddenly aren't that many people that I feel good about being scum. Cora has been looking much townier to me since the start of day 2. And even Slam is making me doubt my read on the Rean slot. So here's where I'm at

probably 0-1 scum in here {Aquanim, thrawn, Bereft, Cora, Onegu, Mocsta}
probably 2-3 scum in here {Slam, Chez, HF}

I'm finding it really hard to believe 2 people in the upper bracket are scum. Meaning at least 2 of the replacements are probably scum and that's where we should be focusing our efforts tonight and tomorrow.

I really liked this post by Mocsta on jampi
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 25 2013 17:00 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:42 jampidampi wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 17:33 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:29 jampidampi wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 20 2013 17:24 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?

Hi jampidampi,

Help me out please.
Firstly, I assume you have read the whole thread, thus consider this post to be significant enough to warrant being your introduction post?

Secondly, Are you querying Rean for information about Rean or Sciberbia?

I'm asking him about his thought process.
I find that "held back" is a very interesting way to describe Sciberias play up to that point, imo he was one of the most direct poeple at that time.
OK, thanks.

Have you read the whole thread?

Is it safe to assume that because you are "intrigued" by Rean, you are in any agreement with Aquanim case on Rean?

Yes I have read the thread once for a sense of game flow. Rereading now with actual thought.


Aquas case has some merit to it if Reans reasons for thinking Sciberbia was "held back" are not good. If Rean had good reasons to think Scib was "held back" then it kinda falls apart.

So originally Jampi likes Aqua case on Rean (with a caveat)

Then..
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 00:22 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 18:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
jampidampi, have you noticed the elephant in the room?

It's over there >>>>>

What do you make of it?

Assuming you mean your case on Aquanim. I like it. I especially like how it applies to Aquas play even after the case.

##Vote: Aquanim
+ Show Spoiler +

Here's some more evidnce against Aquanim:

On November 20 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote:
Well, it looks like Jampidampi has run off without adressing the elephant. I'm not sure whether to be insulted.
He'd better offer some more constructive opinions when he gets back, though.

Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 18:22 jampidampi wrote:
@Sciberbia: My read on Corazon is not conclusive aka null. Slightly on the town side of null.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I took a shower. Sorry for not wanting to smell bad.

Moc, I'm quite concerned that you have already used up >25% of your "self-allotted posts". If you're going to start spamming, it's going to be a problem.

Now to my goals/early game statements:

1. I'm not gonna make any meta crap posts. TBH I don't remember anyone's meta and it's ridiculously stupid logic. I'm not going to stand for it and I don't think you guys should either.

2. I'm voting for the scummiest person. My last game was Titanic and it came down to 3-4 days of "X is scum, Y/Z/Q is scum as well". That led the town way off of the path and allowed my scum team the easiest scum win in a very long time. I don't care if they're not on the two lynch trains that are going to form. It's not instant majority so as long as I feel like I'm voting for the scummiest person in my opinion, I'm going to be happy with my vote.

3. I'm going to do my best to not be just an onlooker. I'm gonna try and facilitate discussion and ask a lot of questions instead of just answering questions and throw my ideas out there and just create more chaos.

On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.


Don't like this post. Doesn't say anything with a substance.

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present.

He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others.

This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it.

This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.

Don't understand what he is trying to say with this. If "us" refers to Scib and Cora, how does he come to the conclusion that Scib can "sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others" if Scib is tunneling Cora?

On one hand Cora could be a townie caught in a emotional tunnel. This falls in line with his tone when directly responding to Scib. On the other hand he could be scum. Reserving judgement until he returns and properly answears Sciberbias case and this post.

@Jampidampi: This reads to me like two quotes demonstrating why you don't like Corazon's play so far. How does that leave you on the town side of null? I think you need to flesh this out some more.


This post is odd. It feels like Aqua really wanted to say the first paragraph and inserted the second one to make a post with more substance. If Aqua wanted to address my post with the second pararaph, why wait nearly two hours? Since the motive of this post clearly wasn't to adress my post, it must lie withing the first paragrapgh. The first paragrapgh is just throwing some dirt onto me without stating explicit suspection. The motive behind it is to make me look worse. That, ladies and gentleman, is a scum motive.

@LoneMeow:
Could be more specific about what makes you think Aqua is town? What do you think about the case on him?
Firstly, I take "even after the case" to refer to Thrawns case on Aquanim (rather than Aquanim case on Rean) though I don't think this changes my concern.

Secondly, lets look at what the points of Thrawn case was that Jampi liked.
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2013 16:31 thrawn2112 wrote:
Aquanim is scum. + Show Spoiler +
I just read through all his posts and concluded that he is not looking for scum and is not suspicious of anything. I don't want to make a big post full of quotes so I'd like you to read his filter and then read this post.

He starts the game by asking the "are you scum" question. When questioned about this he says he has a slight town read on Mocsta. In his next post after giving Mocsta the "teeny tiny town read" he expands upon the reasoning for said town read with way more words than are needed. Later in that post he comments on things that aren't related to scumhunting. He ends that same post with a question to Corazon but the question is not framed in a way that it looks like he is suspicious of Corazon. He then asks rean a similar sounding question, and posts another question for Corazon. None of it looks like scumhunting because I don't sense any hint of accusation behind any of the questions. After those series of questions comes a larger post where he gives me a townread, and says he doesn't like Corazon's case but he doesn't call Corazon scum for it. Then there's another non-accusatory question to rean, and he asks a nonsensical and completely useless question about vig shots. He asks who would mocsta shoot, but says that this doesn't mean he's asking for a scumread. What use is a vig shot other than to shoot a scumread? It doesn't make any sense at all and I don't see how he was trying to help town by asking it.


So what is his filter comprised of? Town reads, overly lengthy explanations for things that aren't important, weak questions that don't look like he's actually looking for scum, and a completely useless question about vig-shots.

##vote: aquanim


How is jampidampi PoV applicable if Aquanim made a case on Rean that jampi acknowledged potentially decent.

Further look again at how Jampi explains why Aqua case could be meritable
Show nested quote +
Aquas case has some merit to it if Reans reasons for thinking Sciberbia was "held back" are not good. If Rean had good reasons to think Scib was "held back" then it kinda falls apart.
This is a strawman argument that is completely open to vague interpretation allowing jampi multiple outs.

The main reason I find this scummy is due to how jampi adjusts his scum read based on thread sentiment.

Later on Aquanim is off the noose and we get:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2013 23:09 jampidampi wrote:
Rean
On November 21 2013 03:04 Rean wrote:
...

On November 20 2013 17:20 jampidampi wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:19 Rean wrote:
On November 20 2013 13:14 Bereft wrote:
he wasn't actually calling mocsta scum. just you.

i don't see the distinction between mocsta's explicitly stating and sciberia's "window looking". how were they different? could you expand pls?


He means that Mocsta is going around calling people scum or town straightup, unlike Sciberia who is more held back.


At this point, what in Sciberias posting came to you as held back?

That he, compared to Mocsta going around calling people "confirmed town" and naming scumteams 5 posts in, seemed to be taking it easy and more the "is most likely to be scum" route. In hindsight held back is probably not the phrase I'm looking for but you know what I mean.

That is like saying Scarlett is bad when compared to Jaedong. Doesn't explain how "held back" is the phrase that came to your mind when thinking about Sciberbias early play.

Hasn't scumhunted very much.

Might consolidate onto him.
Guess, he gets the answer to "held back" is not satisfied, but leaves his vote on aquanim the whole cycle even though it made the case of merit.
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2013 11:59 ObviousOne wrote:
cDgCorazon (0): thrawn2112, Mocsta, sciberbia, Onegu, thrawn2112, sciberbia, Holyflare
Aquanim (2): thrawn2112. Mocsta, jampidampi, cDgCorazon, Rean, raynpelikoneet
Rean (0): Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, raynpelikoneet, Bereft, Mocsta, thrawn2112, raynpelikoneet
Onegu (0): sciberbia, thrawn2112
Bereft (0): raynpelikoneet, raynpelikoneet
Mocsta (0): raynpelikoneet
raynpelikoneet (8): thrawn2112, Mocsta. Aquanim, JarJarDrinks, Bereft, raynpelikoneet, cDgCorazon, thrawn2112, thrawn2112, raynpelikoneet, thrawn2112, Holyflare, sciberbia, raynpelikoneet
jampidampi (0): raynpelikoneet
Mocsta (1): Onegu, raynpelikoneet
JarJarDrinks (0): raynpelikoneet
No-Lynch (1): cDgCorazon

raynpelikoneet [blue]is currently set to be lynched.

jampi posted many times whilst Rayn went AWOL including giving him a calm/calculated town read:
Show nested quote +
[B]On November 22 2013 00:14 jampidampi wrote:
On November 22 2013 00:07 Mocsta wrote:
On November 22 2013 00:03 jampidampi wrote:
I need some time to make any sense of this rayn mess, give me a moment to reread.

hmmmm

<I am going to the QT to talk to Rayn about how to best perform damage control>

Rayn has some weird things as town in the past, though mostly related to fake claiming (Nuclear Winter for example).

For a guy that displayed shrewd analysis with the corazon read (i.e. immediately being able to identify emotional tunnel etc) its disconcerting how hard you are holding onto this Aquanim line of questioning.

The original query to you was "fair game".
You wrote he was leaning town (slightly) yet identified two quotes that you said had no substance. The message is unclear -- yet you keep trying to shit the thread with this.

Both you and Aquanim need to read more carefully. First of all, I highlighted one post that "didn't say anything with a substance". My point about Aqua is about the motive behind his post, and he seems to continue missunderstanding that. He has yet to refute my actual point, instead trying to make my point appear to be something which it isn't and refuting that.
Yet his vote remained on aquanim this whole time contradicting his original stance.

I take ire with this town read further; as even people like Onegu who have extensive experience with Rayn were not able to distill their reasons for Rayn being town as succinctly as that one sentence.

Yes, I do think jampidampi is scum.






Unfortunately, I have no confidence at all in my ability to read Chezinu. I've tried to play his game a couple of times now but he keeps shutting me out. Whether malicious or just because he thinks I'm scum I don't know. I hope the rest of you know what you're doing regarding him.



Have a lot of sleep and work to do. May not be able to post for rest of night phase. If I'm shot please give my filter a thorough reread.
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
November 25 2013 14:01 GMT
#1918
@Sciberbia: If one of the top group is scum who's your guess? Even if you can only narrow it down to two,
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7448 Posts
November 25 2013 14:37 GMT
#1919
I shall unveil more to my story. You see I, yes I, Chezinu the Brown, is the Great rising star. The light of the dawn. The one known as the sun. I must not be devoured. I must win. I plan to bring everyone together, I just mustn't let this get together turn into a disaster.

Now, you know that I am the rising star. I shall state the reason for coming together. Have you heard of the Wisdom of the Crowd? Together we can identify the robots among us.

We just need each person to create a list and state whether they think someone is a robot on a scale of 1-10, where 10 is for sure a robot and 1 is definitely a living individual with feelings that is one with the family. After everyone rates everyone within this room, we will tally the scores and see who has the highest robot rating.


Not even RoboCop can skew these results.
lol, clueless in The Prism!
sciberbia
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1359 Posts
November 25 2013 14:37 GMT
#1920
On November 25 2013 23:01 Aquanim wrote:
@Sciberbia: If one of the top group is scum who's your guess? Even if you can only narrow it down to two,


Tough question. Can I have 3?

Mocsta - if it weren't for you and thrawn telling me he is def town I probably would have put him in his own group in the middle
Onegu - towniness confined to one part of his filter; possible he just put on a great act for 12-24 hours
Bereft - don't know how to explain this.. just feel like there aren't any super strong town-tells

OK now I really really have to do some work. closing thread
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