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On January 07 2014 06:39 chinstrap wrote:
Yes
It's already out there tbh. If they weren't already adapting they are now. It may have been a bit early to bring it out but hey, if that's how someone is going to scumhunt i'm not goign to stop them.
I want OWB to prove that he's doing what he says he is. He's notorious for not being confident and hiding his thoughts as town, and as scum he barely put any effort into scum hunting. He can be very good at being analytical but he needs a push.
I don't mind having them adapt to mistakes they might have made atm... but yeah, normally I wouldn't bring this kind of analysis out until AFTER we have a scum flip, but it's kinda too late for that haha.
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@Balla, could you expand on: "not really suspicious of him anymore, especially after i get past the WIFOM of his opening play. He seems to be genuinely worried about how some people (derrida) reacted to it so that's good," especially with regards to what part you thought of his opening was WIFOM and why being worried about other people's reactions is an indicator.
I've been asked both by TheChyz and Balla about why I thought TheChyz was not scummy. I just re-read through his filter, I still don't think he is scummy. It is a tough question to disprove him not being a scum though, isn't it? Not fair.
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Also just going to randomly throw out there, if theres a serial killer out there I'm betting the house on OWB
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@Asuna, I missed you out in my list. What do you think about me?
By the way, I would like to re-iterate this point by Balla: "Anyways, since we have a huge timezone gap for some people, we need to consolidate on a few lynch targets TODAY, so that the people who can't be around here for the deadline will be able to hopefully make their votes meaningful. This means I want everyone's votes out on someone by the end of the day, obviously not final." While I do not like the attitude, I do like the idea. When would a tentative deadline be, for example? Oh and Balla, what do you mean by "people like BigDad"?
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@Balla24, Yea, my first reaction after reading Derrida's post on Day_Walker was "LOL really a green light that easily". I just didn't post it, I guess I have to get used to posting everything I'm thinking because it's looking really bad for me right now. After reading through this again:
wow, some really good reads by this guy. Certainly gave me a lot of insight and I can clearly follow his line of thinking and argumentation, no bullshit so far. Still, I might be susceptible to manipulation due to my inexperience
I'm putting Derrida higher up on my suspicious people list. Your concerns about Derrida giving certain people a green light easily are definitely valid. This is mafia, nobody should ever be green lit so easily, especially after one post. I myself don't have anyone green lit.
I admit it looks like I'm changing stances rather quickly but that's what happens when you read everything too quickly. I'm definitely getting more familiar with the game though.
/offtopic: I know this is a newbie game but a lot of people here seem to have a lot of experience playing the game. JonnyLaw in particular seems to hate the "I'm new to this" type of post. And I think the more experienced players here are looking far too deep into what some of the newer players are posting.
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On January 07 2014 06:44 Derrida wrote:
@Balla, could you expand on: "not really suspicious of him anymore, especially after i get past the WIFOM of his opening play. He seems to be genuinely worried about how some people (derrida) reacted to it so that's good," especially with regards to what part you thought of his opening was WIFOM and why being worried about other people's reactions is an indicator.
I've been asked both by TheChyz and Balla about why I thought TheChyz was not scummy. I just re-read through his filter, I still don't think he is scummy. It is a tough question to disprove him not being a scum though, isn't it? Not fair.
Sure, but first off i don't remember asking you why you thought Chyz was not scummy? Can't really find it in my filter either haha i'm lunching T_T...
Refer to my analysis of the Chyz opener here:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2014 14:39 Balla24 wrote:
Gotta agree with that,it definitely fogs thing up, but it also gives us something to talk about.
However, let's think about it from both perspectives... From a scum perspective, 2 options: 1. You accidentally got yourself in a hard to get out of situation, so instead of trying to reason your way out of it you call it fake to backtrack. 2. You are deliberately putting yourself under suspicion to ultimately gain weak town cred.
From town perspective: You are deliberately putting yourself under suspicion to scumhunt.
Both scum situations seem really weird to do... #1 because it should be really easy to reason your way out of the situation he is as scum (at least imo) or at least backtrack by admitting fault etc.. #2 just seems weird... it's like..."ima be scummy so that i can try to discredit a townie and by doing so become more townie myself"
Town perspective also seems weird... for me, the small amount of scumhunting he's done to follow it up (so far) makes me lean more towards scum on him rather than town, but we'll have to see how he follows it up more. For example though, I have no real idea why you chose Day_walker to go after rather than the other's who went after you, like suki, myself, sidesprang etc...
On January 06 2014 17:18 Balla24 wrote:
The situation with chyz is super wifomy, circular logic stuff that is better to avoid rather than to dwell on. that's the reasoning I expected you to use... you can't easily come up with a conclusion around it so why bother... until something more conclusive comes up surrounding him he is best left at a neutral read...
why do you dislike his vote on day walker? his reasoning? the omgus?
It's WIFOM because there's no 100% way we can confirm whether or not he was lying. So if we think too hard about it we end up just going in circles. Might not exactly be the definition of WIFOM, but it's the kind of situation where you want to just AVOID thinking about it because it's too hard to come to a conclusion about it.
As far as him being worried about people's reactions... sorry I don't really get what you mean here? It's just basic scum hunting.
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United States23745 Posts
On January 07 2014 06:36 Balla24 wrote:
So you don't find it suspicious that he was so enamored with Day_walker and that he came up with a NULL read on you?
What about his read on me, you're becoming more suspicious of me so is what he said aligned with your thinking?
@OWB: Was Day_walker/Dragoon the only connection you found? Let's hear anything else in regards to connections like that since that was how you seemed to be hunting. I found a few more weak connections, but i'd like you to prove that you were actually hunting and you didn't just find ONE thing to latch onto.
I know it's not the answer you want to hear, but that's the only real pair that stood out to me. I didn't start hunting with the goal of finding pairs, that one just sort of happened. I'm glad you think I'm capable of doing good analysis, but nothing else really stood out to me (or at least nothing that hadn't already been said). Don't think I didn't take my time to formulate my analysis on Day_Walker and Dragoon though
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People like bigdad = people in different timezones who aren't going to be around for the deadline... he's in australia so that's kind of a large time difference. I think 5pm est is 7am Australia time so yeah...
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On January 07 2014 06:52 theDragoon wrote:
/offtopic: I know this is a newbie game but a lot of people here seem to have a lot of experience playing the game. JonnyLaw in particular seems to hate the "I'm new to this" type of post. And I think the more experienced players here are looking far too deep into what some of the newer players are posting.
It's what this game is all about. The more experienced players will quickly want to get rid of the "noob card" for people to play, because it's annoying to think about.
I mean just try it lol... whenever somebody says "well i'm new to this so i'm not sure about: xxxxx" like what are you supposed to think? "Dang this guy's new so i better cut him some slack for having no confidence...?" No we can't do that... because that allows mafia players to play that card...
Basically, it's similar to lists, similar to lurking, similar to using RL excuses: The noob card is not something you want to play as town BECAUSE it sets a standard for mafia to be able to use it and then from there it's circular logic. Just nip it in the butt.
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@theDragoon I think you are over-reading into my "warning levels," I'm not "green litting" anyone. I thought that in a tabula rasa environment, I would start reading the thread with assuming everyone was townies, and elevate "danger level" if I thought there was any suspicious activity. The other option is to start assuming everyone is mafia, which is just paranoid and counter-productive.
@Balla, with your definition of WIFOM, the whole thread (in the eyes of a townie) becomes WIFOM because of the information asymmetry, especially in Day 1 where s/he KNOWS (not deduces/interprets) nothing. That's why I thought TheChyz's 'opener' was no scummy in relation to any other opener.
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On January 07 2014 06:55 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 06:36 Balla24 wrote:
So you don't find it suspicious that he was so enamored with Day_walker and that he came up with a NULL read on you?
What about his read on me, you're becoming more suspicious of me so is what he said aligned with your thinking?
@OWB: Was Day_walker/Dragoon the only connection you found? Let's hear anything else in regards to connections like that since that was how you seemed to be hunting. I found a few more weak connections, but i'd like you to prove that you were actually hunting and you didn't just find ONE thing to latch onto.
I know it's not the answer you want to hear, but that's the only real pair that stood out to me. I didn't start hunting with the goal of finding pairs, that one just sort of happened. I'm glad you think I'm capable of doing good analysis, but nothing else really stood out to me (or at least nothing that hadn't already been said). Don't think I didn't take my time to formulate my analysis on Day_Walker and Dragoon though
What do you think of Derrida giving Day_Walker the green light and have COMPLETE TRUST in him? You label Day_Walker and I as scum because I "seemingly trusted and turned by back on him so we can distance ourselves". I don't think you're reading my posts at all since I have never trusted Day_Walker ONCE. I'll know when you start reading my posts when you remove that vote on me. I still want you to prove the part where I gave my trust in Day_Walker and pinpoint the exact moment where I try to "distance myself" from him.
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Hm okay, so it wasn't you who asked me about my TheChyz interpretation. It was TheChyz and Dragoon. My bad.
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Maybe I shouldn't have use the term WIFOMy cause you're right, it's not actually WIFOM, but I would handle this situation similarly to how i would handle real wifom, by just thinking about it a little bit and then ignoring it if i cant conclude anything from it.
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On January 07 2014 07:02 Balla24 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 06:52 theDragoon wrote:
/offtopic: I know this is a newbie game but a lot of people here seem to have a lot of experience playing the game. JonnyLaw in particular seems to hate the "I'm new to this" type of post. And I think the more experienced players here are looking far too deep into what some of the newer players are posting. It's what this game is all about. The more experienced players will quickly want to get rid of the "noob card" for people to play, because it's annoying to think about. I mean just try it lol... whenever somebody says "well i'm new to this so i'm not sure about: xxxxx" like what are you supposed to think? "Dang this guy's new so i better cut him some slack for having no confidence...?" No we can't do that... because that allows mafia players to play that card... Basically, it's similar to lists, similar to lurking, similar to using RL excuses: The noob card is not something you want to play as town BECAUSE it sets a standard for mafia to be able to use it and then from there it's circular logic. Just nip it in the butt.
I think it's something to consider, though. A noob should be making mistakes all over the place, and mistakes shouldn't be the reason they get lynched. I still don't like how JonnyLaw wanted to lynch Asuna because of inexperience when there are far bigger threats out there. You will all see when I get lynched tomorrow that this "distancing theory" is completely dumbfounded and you will all be back to square one.
It does allow mafia to play that card and makes its a lot harder for town to play but an experienced player should be able to tell if someone is telling the truth about the noob card or if they are bluffing because the noob will make a lot more mistakes.
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@thedragoon, you just leaped from an /offtopic discussion to an /ontopic demagogy by your "You will all see when I get lynched tomorrow that this "distancing theory" is completely dumbfounded" line. This is somewhat suspicious.
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Eh, you are misjudging us if you think we're experienced players... we are just experienced with noob games 
But rest assured, if you're new we are and SHOULD be taking it into account... but explicitly stating "I AM NEW PLS DONT LYNCH ME MY READS MIGHT BE BAD" is NOT helpful whatsoever. Catch my drift?
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On January 07 2014 07:11 Balla24 wrote:Eh, you are misjudging us if you think we're experienced players... we are just experienced with noob games But rest assured, if you're new we are and SHOULD be taking it into account... but explicitly stating "I AM NEW PLS DONT LYNCH ME MY READS MIGHT BE BAD" is NOT helpful whatsoever. Catch my drift?
/offtopic:Yea i get it. I just felt like a lot of people look into my posts too much thinking there's some sort of link or slip or whatever when in reality i just don't know WTF I'm doing.
/ontopic: I'm gonna ##Unvote onlywonderboy and ##Vote theDragoon. There's no way to get out of this mess, you're all really looking at the wrong guy. I guess without me fucking things up for the town, you'd be better off but this is going to be 2 down for mafia after the first night. I have to head out, I'll be on later.
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Is martyring as awful in forum mafia as it is in rl mafia?
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United States23745 Posts
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It's pretty awful... really wasn't expecting that, especially this early T_T I was just pressuring... I need some fresh opinions on this though cause I don't know what to think.
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EPT
