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On January 07 2014 04:14 Derrida wrote:
@Balla,
Balla's read: You first pressure Dragoon about his usage of "random accusations," which I interpret as a tactic of making him talk more. I am not the type of person that dwells on specific usage of words or concepts as long as I can get a feel of the general argument. Therefore, your pressuring of Dragoon on his word choices seemed unnecessary to me. I don't think you have any other reads than this unless I'm missing something?
You correctly say that it's a tactic to make him talk more, but it's also just trying to keep people in check for things they say. He said something about random accusations, which I did not see.. therefore we had a differing opinion and he clearly disagreed with some of the accusations put out, I wanted him to come forth with his reasoning as to why he claimed there were random accusations going about.
I don't see how that's unnecessary?
But no, sorry you're right. I thought I had written a more comprehensive post about him last night  which I will do now
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On theDragoon:
On January 06 2014 14:45 theDragoon wrote:
Acting scummy on purpose is a bit of a stupid plan for a townie, all it does is put a target on your back and force you to defend yourself early, you might get a little insight into how people are reacting to it but it's a really risky move. A risk that a regular townie with no powers should be willing to make.
A mafia putting his name out there this early is a bad plan if enough people jump on the bandwagon. I'm conflicted, all TheChyz has done is create confusion. If enough people get off the bandwagon and he turns out to be a mafia, then he's won and the risk he took with putting his name out there would be totally worth it.
Whether or not it's true that TheChyz was telling the truth about the whole act like a scum thing, all it's really done is create confusion among the town.
##Vote: TheChyz
I thought this end was pretty scummy. He admits that he can't decide whether or not he was telling the truth or not, and basically says "man even if this guy is town I would still lynch him".
On January 06 2014 15:49 theDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 15:30 JonnyLaw wrote:
Excuses, bandwagoning and self doubt in one line.
I'm down to lynch Asuna or OWB at this point.
Dragoon and Chyz read more as if they're trying but misguided.
That's enough of a reason to lynch Asuna? I don't see that as good enough to suspect Asuna of being mafia, unless you know more than what you've said there. Those 3 things you listed there is just a sign of an inexperienced player, it has nothing to do with being a scum.
This post was odd for me... to me Jonny was pretty clearly trying to pressure both Asuna and OWB and dragoon undermines that pressure by defending Asuna already. He goes off on Jonny for having weak reasons to lynch someone, so I asked him who HIS top scum reads are, because there isn't really much reasoning out there. He dodges. I ask again later, and he dodges again. That's REALLY odd. If you're going to call someone out for not having good reasons to lynch someone, then you need to provide a counter...
It's pretty clear that AT THAT POINT in jonny's thinking, that's who he wanted to lynch, not who he will lynch at the end of the day.
Couple that with the possible slip that I just pointed out, and I think he's scum:
##unvote
##vote theDragoon
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@Balla:
To your last sentence: Because a scum would want to kill blues.
Yea... I know. If I'm questioning his decision to lynch Asuna with me thinking Jonny had a blue read. Then what am I saying here? If I don't think Jonny had a blue read, then what am I saying about him?
Anyways, since this isn't going anywhere.. why did you dodge the "top 2 scum" earlier?
Because at that point I wasn't sure who my top 2 was, even though I did vote TheChyz earlier, but a lot has happened since that post. Also, I wanted to call out the two who haven't posted anything.
You've been implying that you think Jonny is scum, yet you very seemingly call him town here and don't even consider it from a scum perspective.
I never implied Jonny is scum or Asuna was townie. I defended Asuna because I did not like Jonny's reason to lynch him. It does not mean I trust Asuna nor does it mean Jonny is a scum.
@Derrida:
TheChyz has basically painted a target on his back and a lot of people have jumped on him, including myself. Why would you put your trust into him so easily? Even TheChyz himself thought it was a bit weird for you to think that way.
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Alright, well a lot has happened since then clearly, so let's hear your top scums now? Or are you still unwilling to because you're still not sure?
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Day 1 vote count:
Balla24 (0): chinstrap
TheChyz (0): chinstrap, suki, theDragoon, dnyarri
JonnyLaw (0): Balla24
Day_Walker (0): TheChyz
onlywonderboy (0): Balla24
theDragoon (2): dnyarri, Balla24
BigDad (1): suki
dnyarri (1): TheChyz
Not voting (9): Asuna, onlywonderboy, Derrida, BigDad, sidesprang, Day_Walker, JonnyLaw, chinstrap, theDragoon
Currently, theDragoon is set to be lynched.
Deadline is Tuesday, Jan 07 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) (in ). Voting is mandatory!
If there are errors, please let us know.
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On January 07 2014 02:19 Balla24 wrote:
I'm really not too fond of dnyarri atm..they just came into the thread, found the 2 most suspicious people and rehashed why they are suspicious without saying anything about anything else... It makes this game really hard now because there are so many suspicious people FMPOV, and they are all on similar levels. I can agree with almost every case out there... EVERYBODY is fluffing it up.
So Dnyarri, why do you think dragoon is sketchier than some other people in the game.. what do you think of suki/jonny/me etc etc etc...
It is true that I pretty much collected and rehashed what other people said. I have only done so to express my opinions about certain players. They have already said what I think and my opinions are mostly based on what the've said.
Small correction: In my first post I actually mentioned why Day_Walker is suspicious too (rehashed again).
Since Balla24 asked my opinion, here's my list (minus TheChyz, Day_Walker and TheDragoon):
My opinions about suki are based on the simple reason that suki has suspected the same players as I have, TheChyz and TheDragoon. Suki also unvoted TheChyz, like I did.
sidesprang is so quiet that I barely noticed them. Wouldn't mind lynching sidesprang but I'm not convinced sidesprang is scum. After all, I'm pretty quiet too.
JonnyLaw is seems to talk much and say nothing. Hasn't voted and their accusations (which are mostly oneliners) seem pretty wild to me. I don't like JonnyLaw but wouldn't lynch them just yet.
BigDad would seem Mafia to me. It was this post by BigDad that made me notice how suspicious TheDragoon was:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434723¤tpage=19#366
If both BigDad and TheDragoon were in mafia, why would BigDad attack TheDragoon so much? Since I think TheDragoon is scum, I have no reason (for now) to lynch BigDad
Asuna is somewhat suspicious to me, but not on top of my list. Asuna's reasoning for accusing JonnyLaw seem pretty weak, like Day_Walker said and Asuna doesn't elaborate on that which seems like Asuna doesn't want to say anything that could be used against themselves.
About you, Balla24. You seem to be very active and have very much control. However, all accusations against you seem to be quite bening so I can't draw good conclusions. My question to you: What is your opinion about BigDad? Do you think BigDad is scum?
Onlywonderboy hasn't said anything for long time so I'm ready to lynch them but let's see if they become more active before night. First onlywonderboy defends Balla24, which I find moderately suspicious. Onlywonderboy hasn't said anything meaningful
Derridan is suspicious to me because Derridan gives RED for sidesprang while giving Onlyboywonder ORANGE even though both have been very quiet. Also I don't understand why Derridan rates Day_Walker's list so high.
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@dnyarii ATM, without re-reading... I really do like suki's case on him... BUT I am cautiously giving him an unconfident town read atm... would not lynch.
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If you're going to call someone out for not having good reasons to lynch someone, then you need to provide a counter...
I like to think innocent until proven guilty, not the Phoenix Wright way of guilty until proven innocent AND you find who's guilty. How you prefer to play this game isn't always how other people will play the game.
I'm not good enough at this game to get scum reads from forum posts. If you REALLY want me to give my top 2 most suspicious people are:
Day_Walker: If I don't buy his town read on me, why should I believe his other reads. I've got the most votes on me right now and I want to see if Day_Walker still thinks I'm a townie.
suki: "Okay then, lets get back to scumhunting :D". A bit too eager to go scumhunting there, don't ya think? Not really a good reason to call him mafia.
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Just a note for everyone: suki is a she
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Yes, please refer to me as a girl, I would appreciate it!
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But Dragoon, other than her dissapearing after the "let's get back to scumhunting" what is wrong with her FMYPOV?
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United States23745 Posts
On January 06 2014 11:22 Balla24 wrote:
Ok, seems reasonable that i'm overthinking it and it's not an attempt to pocket me but more him actually being disappointed with the IC's play so far.
Anyways, him attempting to pocket me isn't really something i see him doing from my experience with him.
I'm not familiar with the term pocketing. I didn't realize he was joking so I defended you. We've played with some confrontational players in these last few newb games so I thought he was just being super aggro.
I'm not comfortable with a Derrida lynch Day 1 just yet. I think his inexperience is showing more than his scumminess. He was gone for a large portion of the day and was trying to make up for his inactivity by posting a lot of information. Unfortunately it's really easy to sheep when there has already been so much discussion prior to posting.
Although now that I refresh the page I see that the discussion has sort of shifted away from Derrida. My main scum reads at the moment are Dragoon and Day_Walker. They seem to be interacting a decent amount, which isn't inherently scummy, but they go out of there way to distance themselves from each other.
Dragoon says "For the record, I want to make it clear that I never said I completely trust Day_Walker,"
Then Day_Walker says:
On January 06 2014 21:03 Day_Walker wrote:At the risk of playing into the "Day_Walker and theDragoon are protecting each other because they are both scum" read, what do you make of theDragoon standing up for Asuna? Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 15:49 theDragoon wrote:On January 06 2014 15:30 JonnyLaw wrote:
Excuses, bandwagoning and self doubt in one line.
I'm down to lynch Asuna or OWB at this point.
Dragoon and Chyz read more as if they're trying but misguided.
That's enough of a reason to lynch Asuna? I don't see that as good enough to suspect Asuna of being mafia, unless you know more than what you've said there. Those 3 things you listed there is just a sign of an inexperienced player, it has nothing to do with being a scum. Off the top of my head I can think of only two scenarios where this is consistent with theDragoon scum AND Asuna townie: 1) Scum are protecting some townies to make things harder to read. 2) Scum are trying to make it easier to play the "I'm a newbie" card.
I understand wanting to get out ahead of these accusations, but that doesn't mean we should ignore it simply because he pushed Dragoon slightly. These just seem like they are trying to distance themselves early so if either if them go down we don't suspect them as a scum pair.
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That's exactly how i was thinking OWB... however i'm trying to avoid thinking about scum pairs atm, as it IS day 1 and we have no confirmed scum yet. It is good to note though.
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On January 07 2014 05:11 Balla24 wrote:
Just a note for everyone: suki is a she
Me too. Thanks for giving me an opportunity to put that in without derailing xD
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United States23745 Posts
On January 07 2014 05:28 Balla24 wrote:
That's exactly how i was thinking OWB... however i'm trying to avoid thinking about scum pairs atm, as it IS day 1 and we have no confirmed scum yet. It is good to note though.
Yeah, I realize I might be jumping the gun, but I saw a chance to present some new analysis so I took it. That said I'm comfortable voting for Dragoon.
##vote theDragoon
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How do you like Jonny so far?
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Ok I'm going to actually put my confirmed town status to good use and level with you guys on my current town reads because I feel like a lot o the discussion is going down rabbit holes.
Bigdad, Suki, TheChyz and JonnyLax are all acting in a very pro-town manner by openly producing coherent analysis and conclusions of their own. For that reason I do not think they should be day 1 lynch targets. This does not mean everything they say is gospel it means I do not want to lynch them day 1.
My personal lynch target who I will tunnel into later is ##Vote: theDragoon
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Oh my god vote sniped by OWB
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United States23745 Posts
I'm thinking town at the moment. He had every right to push me based on past games and pushing Asuna prompted a spirited response that showed more insight on her than we had before. I really, really hate his arrogance when he said "I'm not going to be lynched today so don't waste your time trying asuna," but I think he was right for the most part. He was kinda of aggro last game when he was town so nothing seems out of character. Especially where he calls out people for using "I'm new" as an excuse, he hates that.
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United States23745 Posts
EBWOP: ^ in regards to JonnyLaw
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EPT
