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On January 07 2014 02:26 chinstrap wrote:Ok boys and girls I am back from work and ready to Sherlock Holmes this shit up. Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 01:16 suki wrote:
Hi Chyz,
Can you share your thoughts on Dragoon/BigDad for me as well? I would very much like a answer to this question with a reasonable level of depth and thought if possible as I think it is important.
Seriously I think this is super mega important.
While we wait:
@Suki Who are your top TOWN reads - I realise you said you left but even a short answer on a phone would be great
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And since we're porbably waiting for Suki as well...
@Derrida The reason lists can be distracting is because you can spark discussion around neutral people that just wastes time as there is no case there in the first place. As you came in late and read the thread in its current entirety (I assume) you have a slightly different view point to everyone else. Could you please expand on WHO you think we SHOULD lynch today and why?
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On January 07 2014 03:45 Asuna wrote:
Who knows, maybe they are masons and aren't evil buddies, but I definitely do feel like he's hiding something like Dragoon said.
The fact that the game contains an innocent child makes the likelihood of there also being a mason pair highly highly unlikely
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around 1.5% if my math is any good
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Ok I'm going to actually put my confirmed town status to good use and level with you guys on my current town reads because I feel like a lot o the discussion is going down rabbit holes.
Bigdad, Suki, TheChyz and JonnyLax are all acting in a very pro-town manner by openly producing coherent analysis and conclusions of their own. For that reason I do not think they should be day 1 lynch targets. This does not mean everything they say is gospel it means I do not want to lynch them day 1.
My personal lynch target who I will tunnel into later is ##Vote: theDragoon
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Oh my god vote sniped by OWB
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So @balla24, how do you feel about my town reads?
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Are you you want to be putting cards like that on the table now?
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Also just going to randomly throw out there, if theres a serial killer out there I'm betting the house on OWB
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'If he turns out to be town we get no info' is the worst no lynch logic I have ever heard.
Lynch the scummiest target because they are scum.
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Bed time for me guys.
Looking forward to a good ole hanging tomorrow!
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I think we have the correct Day 1 lynch, I also think that everything that has been posted about the lynch since ~martyr post has been completely superfluous and should not be read into regardless of what colour theDragoon flips. The day basically ends there in my mind.
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I also think that this discussion about lurkers is outrageously counterproductive and gives (or is) a great scum distancing ploy so please drop it.
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On January 07 2014 17:33 Day_Walker wrote:Ok Dragoon seems more or less done talking, and I want to hear Balla's take on my thoughts. Let's talk about lurkers. dnyarri+ Show Spoiler +Three total posts. I flagged his first post as potentially scum, and given his follpw-up it looks even worse to me now than it did then. His second post switches his lynch vote from TheChyz to Dragoon: On January 06 2014 23:43 dnyarri wrote:Actually I have changed my primary target of suspicion from TheChyz to TheDragoon mainly because of this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434723¤tpage=16#316TheDragoon stated that Day_Walker seemed like innocent even though Day_Walker had only posted one list and nothing else. Day_Walker's only vote is against TheChyz which doesn't mean much since TheChyz is easy bandwagoning target. TheDragoon's post give me the impression that he wants to slow voting down by defending (random) people while going to TheChyz-bandwagon and attacking nobody else. TheChyz is confusing but I'm not sure if it's carelessness or risk taking. My logic for calling him scum was somewhat faulted too I think. ##unvote ##vote: TheDragoon This feels like rather weak reasoning to me, and I'm not sure the part I bolded - which seems to be sharing his thought process from evidence to vote - even makes sense. On one hand, it's hard to call him a bandwagoner because he placed to first vote on Dragoon. On the other hand, between dnyarri's first and second post we had the IC retract his Chyz vote, and BigDad label me and Dragoon as scummy. The wind was definitely blowing away from Chyz and towards Dragoon before dnyarri changed his vote. Dnyarri's last post is fine, and I agree with a lot of the content, but it was prompted by an accusation by Balla of rehashing and not talking about enough people. A fine post, but one that was prompted, rather than spontaneous. Three posts the first day. Two of them are spent agreeing with Balla, the last one gives the consensus view of OWB and Chyz. Comes in late on the second day and drops this: On January 07 2014 10:44 sidesprang wrote:Been away most of the day sry. Skimming through the thread now. Came to this. Voting for yourself make it an autovote for me. If you are town please fight for your life, we have everything to gain. If town we will hopefully see it, if scum we will hopefully be more sure you are scum after your defence. ##Vote theDragoonShow nested quote +On January 07 2014 07:21 theDragoon wrote:On January 07 2014 07:11 Balla24 wrote:Eh, you are misjudging us if you think we're experienced players... we are just experienced with noob games  But rest assured, if you're new we are and SHOULD be taking it into account... but explicitly stating "I AM NEW PLS DONT LYNCH ME MY READS MIGHT BE BAD" is NOT helpful whatsoever. Catch my drift? /offtopic:Yea i get it. I just felt like a lot of people look into my posts too much thinking there's some sort of link or slip or whatever when in reality i just don't know WTF I'm doing. /ontopic: I'm gonna ##Unvote onlywonderboy and ##Vote theDragoon. There's no way to get out of this mess, you're all really looking at the wrong guy. I guess without me fucking things up for the town, you'd be better off but this is going to be 2 down for mafia after the first night. I have to head out, I'll be on later. I'll be catching up for a bit, if anyone have any questions feel free to ask I'll be around for a bit. But gonna use some time catching up as a lot have been posted. What's this? An autovote that absolves him of any need to justify hopping on carriage #9 of the lynch train? How convenient. Any desire to make a substantive comment on the day that he missed? Apparently not. Here is my last post on him: On January 07 2014 11:41 Day_Walker wrote:
@Suki @Balla24
Here is my line of thinking on OBW:
After day 1, his filter had three posts. One cautionary comment about reading Balla, one good point about the IC and a promise to be a good townie, and one question about policy debates and scum hunting.
All fine things to post, and he gets some good feedback (e.g. my list). But these are also very safe posts, and that's all we get for the first 24 hours. I can read this as a scum thinking "great, said some things, got people to like me, now I can let them argue about Chyz for a day". This was the point at which I suggested OBW as a possible lynch target.
His posting for the next day starts with the first big reaction to the me + Dragoon scum pair idea that BigDad brought up, and then he basically rides that idea for the rest of the day.
So the meat of his contribution over the last two days is one read which I know (although Town doesn't) to be false, and it's a read that came served on a platter. From my perspective, OBW's actions makes a lot of sense as scum. I'll just add to this by noting that OWB placed vote #3 on Dragoon. I've said nothing about Dragoon's behavior. I don't think I have to. Based on the actions of other players, I'm fairly confident that we just saw the mafia run a bandwagon. I'm not dismissing the reads of suki and Jonny (the only two people who have made substantial arguments for lynching Dragoon). But if Dragoon is scum, we can get him later. He is at least willing to be around and talk with the Town. And most importantly, we have better lynch targets. I ordered the lurkers from most to least scummy, and I think that either dnyarri or sidesprang would make a solid lynch. ## Vote dnyarri
I just wanted to comment on this. I actually find this whole post suspicious regardless off theDragoon or dnyarri's alignment. Its basically a lot of nothing analysis which could all be deleted and replaced by 'I want to policy lynch lurkers'. The motive behind the whole post feels outrageously Mafia. I don't like it at all.
At no point is there anywhere near a strong case for 'better lynch targets'. I seriously do not like this post at all
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Can someone with some critical thinking skills PLEASE READ the my post quoting DW and this follow up (he can't have read my post before he replied like that 100%) from a DW mafia perspective and tell me that it doesnt all make sense?
##Unvote
##Vote: Day_Walker
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Rationale being that whatever alignment theDragoon is (90% sure he is still scum) DW clearly knows otherwise he could not possibly draw these conclusions off a neutral read in my opinion.
Again with either Dragoon alignment this is a very solid mafia DW play
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If i could lynch DW theDragoon and sidesprang now we would be in a mafia free game imo
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What the fuck is a lurker read?
dnyarri is lurking yes. That does not make him scum candidadte #1 it makes him a lurker.
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On January 07 2014 21:38 sidesprang wrote:
Only way that post makes sense if Day_Walker is mafia is if thedragoon is mafia. With 9 votes on a player, why would you try to change the vote in any way if you were mafia, unless the person with the 9 votes were your mafia buddy.
Atleast that is what pops to my head first when trying to see it from a mafia perspective.
Bandwaggoning is the obvious mafia play now. The vote is incred 1 sided, voting for theDragoon doesn't buy towncred now, defending him actually kind of does because you are sticking your head out for no good reason.
The way DW has gone about it though is HIGHLY suspicious, he doesn't target people for any real reason. he just makes a epic long post that says nothing but I want to lunch lurkers cause they lurk even though I dont have a town read on theDragoon.
It is bad free towncred grab.
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EPT
