EPTNewbie Mini Mafia L - Page 5
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
"I have a nuetral opinion on Storr, early on he didn't say much but recently I like his cases and questions against people. He also had good answers to the questions I had for him earlier." Storr's response to your questions: On November 03 2013 04:28 StorrZerg wrote: 1. why don't you read my filter and then tell me why. I stated why i didn't move my vote. I could just copy and quote my reasoning, but it seems you didn't bother to read my filter so i wont. 2. I'd like to work on that, want to give me 2 people to start on and then ill tell you my opinion on them? And to say i haven't been posting reads is a lie. Just because i don't say "this person is scum" And as far as "who might be with Nyx" i can't answer that because he seems to be like a black sheep. I can however try and read other people and give my opinion on them. If there are only 2 mafia, and even 3 mafia its still a bit hard to try and nail out the scum team with so many people still alive. That convinced you? "I think Storr might be scum, his filter feels somewhat like OWB to me. He has barely done any reads at all. All he is doing is trying to lead town and blending in. He was the very first person to vote for July, he voted for him as a pressure vote to get him to post since he didn't post yet but never took it off after July started posting which I don't see why cause July didn't seem that scummy at that point. Besides that all he really does is try to lead town but never does any reads or scum hunting himself." Was your suspicion on him. The fact that Storr barely does any scumhunting barely changed; he attacked me and nyx only after we attacked him first. Meanwhile his opinions were pretty inconclusive on most anyone else, and he continued to blend in by talking about non-scumhunting topics. How did that manage to convince you so much? I feel like you're too defensive of Storr considering what's happened. Making me believe in the you/Storr pair more. Also, with regards to killing Jonny: I don't think that's a reason to feel less suspicious of Storr. First post after Jonny died Storr mentioned that the kill may have been an attempt to frame him; when I see that, I suspect that Storr killed Jonny to make us think Storr's just being framed. Mafia knows we're gonna be analyzing the kills like that; they could either kill their accusers or not since they could try and persuade town that it was framing. Like with the previous kill, I'd prefer looking at Jonny's arguments/logic rather than the simple fact that he died to evaluate whether or not his reads were right. (Before Storr comes in to rage again: yes, you're allowed to talk about stuff besides "who's scum", but when you barely hunt scum at all and only attack when you get attacked while making meh posts about most everyone else it's more blending in than trying to be helpful) | ||
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
I can't think of any towny related motives for talking about blues like that, and the fact that he backed off makes me think he couldn't either. Well, I've kinda wondered what blue roles we might have since they've had little impact so far, but I've just been focusing on scumhunting rather than relying on blues. The comments are more scummy on average. I'd rather just ignore the stuff poofter said at the end, since he knew he was going to flip scum soon. I don't know how he'd expect us to react to anything he says, so I can't really tell his motives for saying stuff. I mean, he called Jonny scummy, and lumped me, owb, and "owb's savers" with him, while he gave solid town reads on Balla, Storr, and Odin. He lied about Jonny; he's probably telling the truth about Balla (and definitely at least one of his townreads is town, there aren't that many scum). I honestly don't know how we can use this information at all. | ||
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
That drunk posting argument is weak speculation. I hope you know that Vonthin. It supports your case if everything else is convincing, but not by much and by itself it's near worthless. I'm pretty sure sure Odin switched to July because people were pushing him to secure it, in case scum switched off their scumbuddy or some shenanigan like that. Sounds reasonable enough when Odin has nothing better to do with his vote. I mean, he was trying to pressure Jonny with it, but he realized pretty quickly that it wasn't going to work. I also notice that he did basically the same thing in White Flag Mafia, where he was town and voted one guy for pressure or something even though everyone else was definitely lynching someone else. I agree that Odin shouldn't have much reason to vote you over Jonny if he thought you two were scumbuddies, with you deflecting off Jonny. I also don't really buy the deflecting off Jonny argument; it's more than possible for people to have different priorities. Perhaps he just thought he'd get a lynch on you easier, which is a reasonable switch if he thought you two were both scum, but it's pretty confusing. Oh yeah Vonthin, please make sure not to dismiss people who call you out on your failure to call owb scum in your case. I don't care much about earlyish votes, but the fact that you never come to the conclusion that owb is scum looks bad. That might be why Odin thought you were deflecting rather than focusing on someone you thought scum. It may or may not have been a mistake on your part, but no one else can tell if it's actually a mistake or you wanted to avoid committing until you realized your non-committing was noticed. I didn't read through every single post of Odin's filter, so I'll just trust you that he didn't say why he disliked you or why he liked a poofter kill. I'll let him wreck you if you're lying. In that case, he was likely sheeping on Balla's suspicions on you or everyone else's suspicions on poofter. After reading the case and considering Balla's point about poofter choosing not to vote the easier kill Odin D1, he could be scum. ...this doesn't seem quite as relevant anymore, but I had this mostly typed out anyways. | ||
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Balla can you summarize your discussion with Jonny which concluded that owb couldn't be scum with Vonthin or Storr? I'm having a bit of trouble finding it. Pointing me at the page where it starts getting on that topic would help too. I wanna talk about Storr's case on E00e right now. On E00e: Thanks Storr for finally showing some initiative in scumhunting. Way too late, but I'll consider E00e. So Storr's case starts with a summary of some of the points E00e makes in his first post. I have no idea why this is here, it's not analyzed and the E00e's opinions there are reasonable. Jonny's case on Van was crap and suspicion on me was reasonable. ...is this first half of the post part even a case? This stuff doesn't look suspicious on E00e at all. I'll assume, Storr, that you're just summarizing his action for convenience and move on. What a waste of time. Moving on to his day 2 vote. I guess he wanted to try and switch the lynch to owb over poofter, I don't like that since it divides town. Looks sketchy, yeah. Overall: I dislike the inactivity and the vote. Otherwise I actually like the intent in his posts. He scumhunts when he can, and his posts tend to be logical. Worthy of suspicion, not worth a lynch. Sure he's not that useful, but it's not a good enough reason to use a lynch imo when we have more scummy suspects. (Storr, owb, vonthin, maybe even odin) | ||
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Also, the scumhunting you've done is recent and came only after a lot of prodding. There's a limit to the props I can give you for finally caving under pressure. -Now on to quoting E00e's posts. | ||
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
On October 31 2013 06:17 E00e wrote: Leaving my reasons off the table do you agree with me or not? Why I thought they where inconsistent in my mind obvious. Jonny already explicitly said it about july: They state they only want to make on point posts but dont do it. and I already wrote about Jonny: They said we should form a plan to hunt Mafia but then dont form one, make a strange remark about dismissing Storr and a forced accusation. You should not jump to the conclusion that Im not willing to talk (even though it was correct at that time) when I dont respond immediatly. I dont live in this thread. Explains why he's suspicious of Jonny and July. I don't think I've actually heard the one about Jonny's plan inconsistency from someone else, and it's decent reason to suspect. On October 31 2013 21:04 E00e wrote: If only my opinion mattered I would lynch Odin now. A lot of their posts seem so much over the top and look like how I imagine someone very nervous in a real conversation. Also I dont like some of their posts that just distract. This is not a super strong mafia read and I know we have to get a majority and I will most likely be able to be reading the thread near the deadline Btw I cant help but read Odin's post where every new sentence is a new line like poem and it makes them sound funny in my head. Clearly states his feeling on Odin, and eventually backs it up with a vote. Odin being chaotic/distracting is a reasonable opinion, and while the "nervous" thing is more of an instinctive feeling it's one that I can imagine him having. Plus, he's considering scum motivation: Odin could have been scum lashing out due to nerves cuz town wouldn't have been nervous in Odin's position. On November 01 2013 18:19 E00e wrote: Odin, I said I would vote on you before Jonny made his accusation. I then voted not because of Jonny but because of my own reasons when Balla asked me to. My reasons for your were not a simple misunderstanding. I left my vote on you because my opinion did not change and it enabled the possibility to lynch you. If July was missing one vote and no one else was near being lynched I would have changed my vote to them. I tried to convince people by refuting the two accusations on me. Remaining was a bad feeling about me which I did not believe I could change that day, but the next day. More on that Odin thing: he sticks to his scumread. He admits when he's suspicious, instead of being overdefensive about it. On November 02 2013 02:26 E00e wrote: I dont think Jonny is mafia. He makes some bad arguments and takes part in pointless discussions but his anger seems genuine and he puts out information. I feel like Mafia would have pushed for me and July. One of the people who did that is Vonthin. I still dont like their accusation one me and it looks like they tested out who could be lynched the most easily out of July,Odin,e00E. I like most of his opinions here even if he doesn't justify them here. Mafia pushing him is reasonable, especially considering how nyx and owb voted him at virtually the same time; that was sketchy. He examines Vonthin's actions and finds potential scum motivation for it. On November 03 2013 05:42 E00e wrote: Cakeman's last 12 posts or so seem strange to me because I feel like there is a conclusion missing. There are a lot of questions and responding posts to other people but the only pattern I see is pushing Storr and nothing is really done with the information cake receives. I'm guessing he know that mafia like to fake contributions: looking like they're helping, without making solid conclusions that can hurt them later. He's seeing that pattern and calls it out, and I'm pretty sure he was the only one to do so here. Of course, the lack of reasoning a lot of the time and general inactivity make him look worse, but I'm usually liking what I see. | ||
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
of course, this is based on Balla's claim that he and Jonny worked out that you and owb can't be scumbuddies. I haven't actually gotten around to finding that conversation yet, but I can't imagine him getting away with blatantly lying about something verifiable like that. Anyways I gotta sleep. Post any questions you want, promise I'll get around to them if reasonably possible. | ||
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
At the very least, the roleblock helps alleviate my lingering paranoia about Balla. He was telling the truth about the rb unless he planned this all out to clear himself, and I don't see a need for him of all people to need such clearing. He'd probably let a scumbuddy get cleared this way instead. Lemme think about the lynch, I'll hold off on my vote since there's over a whole day left. Owb's a solid enough vote, but I might as well use the time and consider things through. | ||
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Also, if owb is scum, his team could have declined to roleblock and let him claim to have been roleblocked. I'm not really sure how to analyze blues, but from what I've read E00e fits the bill better. owb is kinda just flying under the radar without helping, while E00e actually tries to help without posting too much and drawing attention to himself. Seems like the former is more scum than blue haha. In summary, I don't want to draw too many conclusions from the rb (owb being scum on his own merit is a different story). | ||
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Storr barely pushed E00e imo and it could just be appearing to contribute by picking on a quiet guy. At this stage though I can see just about everything Storr does as a caught mafia trying to avoid getting lynched. He's just seemed so scummy to me for long enough, and he's been pushed enough, that it could be possible. I'm not sure anything would clear him from suspicion save solid facts from his or owb's flip. | ||
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
As for better reasons, I think Storr is more scummy than owb in that Storr has done more of the scummy "make easy posts without actually contributing". Plus I don't like Storr's defenses to his accusations. I actually prefer how owb just admits when he looks scummy (admittedly, you're supposed to follow that up by being helpful to town, so it doesn't help much). But Storr decided to focus on trying to shut down valid accusations and calling his attackers scum, which is far worse imo. I've already explained why I thought Storr's defenses were bad. + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2013 04:54 cakemanofdoom wrote: Addressing Storr: I was kinda buying this for a while, but I can't say I agree with this much in the end. Yeah, you can do other things in mafia that are helpful, but nothing's on the same level as finding scum and accusing them imo. Town wins by killing the mafia. Yup, you'd push your common sense as any alignment. So why not do something towny if you're town? I don't think you were so busy as to be unable to be town for so long after the game started, especially if you were able to post your common sense. Even Odin was able to form some opinions on people, and his rl looks like a total mess. No, after some more thought, I don't think it's stupid after all. Simply not trying hard doesn't mean much in a newbie game when we have several people being lazy/weak posters. Trying hard to fake contribute is scummy. Now, we can debate over whether or not you were fake contributing or actually contributing. I maintain that almost all your contributions throughout the game were "fake" and designed to make yourself look good rather than help town win. I'm not sure I can go into this part more than I already have. Too many of your posts had gone by without you doing the most important thing: catch and push lynches on scum. Meanwhile, those posts would have been really easy for scum to make to look good; you yourself say that you'd make those posts regardless of alignment. You ended up following town on July day one, before going back to your common sense posts. Now, you're pushing nyx. I had thought he was too nooby to tell if he's scum or just noob town. I'll admit, with his recent posts his lack of explanation is really grating on me. Regardless of his alignment I want more, though I'd imagine the mafia qt would shout at him to stop making posts lacking in reason? I am getting more comfortable with a lynch on him, though I think there's still too decent a chance that he's just being nooby. I like that you push him, though, and that you've stated a solid opinion now. If you live, I hope you continue with that. That said, ##Vote: StorrZerg I'm not particularly inclined to give you more chances right now. I thought you were a decent lynch yesterday, but I decided to give you more chances to contribute since you seemed busy. Since then, though, you've only counter-attacked people who pushed you first. I still don't see much initiative to try and find mafia. I'm not sure Storr ever addressed the core of my points. He had this: + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2013 03:34 StorrZerg wrote: Bad pints against myself, and other scummy behavior as well yes. You realize nearly everyone has asked me to say something, or have said something about me... A bad point your bringing up. "Took to long" Sorry if my approach to the game is different than yours.... on the note of "taking to long" Yeah lets just disregard half the town now because they have been inactive on Halloween. People live outside of this game cake, and im not one that usually cares to bring my RL into this game. I have reasons for being "inactive" and sometimes other people have pointed out why i am "inactive" How about you stop looking at arbitrary crap that has nothing to do with scum or town. I prefer to post, and do things in the game, rather than explain my inactivity from outside events. The inactivity was NOT my accusation; as I'd later pointed out my complaint was TOO MUCH activity without some scumhunting to go with it. Excessive barely-useful and easy activity is the scum move of blending in. And then Storr later lashed out at town again for accusing him of inactivity, but that time he just said he wasn't inactive instead of implying that he had good reasons for inactivity. Inconsistent responses while misrespresenting of an argument against him? Scum trying to look better at all costs. + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2013 05:33 StorrZerg wrote: EBTWOP (meant to click preview) btw no duh town wins by killing mafia. And saying right now that im not scum hunting is a blatant lie. You have said, i have taken "too long" to make my reads" I have given an opinion on pretty much every person in this game so far. You are not attacking my reads at all, you are attacking me because i was "slow" to come up with them. Yeah, it's obvious that town needs to kill mafia. That's why Storr wasn't contributing! He was barely hunting mafia! yet he at some point said he was contributing more than I said he was. Then Storr dismisses my attacks as saying that he was just too slow to come up with reads. --That's bad! Considering that he was definitely active early on, being so slow to come up with reads, and only on major attackers or people he was specifically asked about, seems like he was avoiding having to come up with opinions. Plus, his comment about "right now" is misdirection: yes, he had begun to post more productively. That does not in any way erase his scumminess from earlier, which is what he seemed to be trying to make us think by brushing past his terrible start (and it's a bit inaccurate to just call it a start, Storr's unhelpfulness lasted pretty long) Oh, also: there's a difference between people addressing him and him being asked about specific people. He had to be asked about specific people to give reads on them (fairly inconclusive ones at that, iirc). He seemed to imply at one point that he could only address people who had addressed him first. I'll give him that, but it doesn't change the fact that he could and should have formed opinions on people who hadn't been brought to his attention with specific questions or with a case on him. I can't even accept being bad or not caring enough to look as his excuse. He obviously cares, since he responded so vehemently to attacks on him. Also: + Show Spoiler + On November 05 2013 05:09 JonnyLaw wrote: disclaimerThis post looks long but there's not a lot of actual reading. Please look over it. This post reads incredibly scummy. He's "pressuring" poofter while at the same time he's really trying to alleviate our fears about him. Oh, this is why he COULD be scum but I don't think so. Like really? A few short posts before this he tried to say cake and I are a scum team and should be lynched. Why don't you follow up on this read when no one else latches onto it. Well, Obzy does on me but that's different. Nyx and owb are playing badly. I'll eat my shoe if they're a scum team together. All of these posts combine keep pressure away from poofter, vonthin and odin. Check page 6 of storr's filter he's still riding cakeman. Cakeman was poofter's final vote as well. Why explain why those two are town? I don't know if they are. Why not look for someone who is not town? He's trying so hard to lynch lurkers on day 2. Lynching a lurker day 2 is so risky when we've made a solid case for poofter already. You're fucking right it's a bonus. It worked for July why not for nyx? Storr wanted to lynch nyx then votes owb. IT WORKED FOR JULY WHY NOT FOR OWB AS WELL! Storr then goes on to vote poofter and unvote him then revote him. No shit you are. This is at @owb No one wanted to vote for cakeman except poofter. DING DING DING Who went on myself and cakeman day 2? I'll answer that question. Storrzerg! It looked like I was going to implode with obzy and balla so it was easy pressure. He quickly backs off of questioning me at all when it's clear balla and I are having a good ole time scum hunting. This was Jonny's last case on Storr. You can wonder what scum were doing killing Jonny all you want, but townie logic is townie logic and should be seriously considered if the logic itself is sound. And I like at least some of Jonny's logic here; that weak pressure on poofter does look a bit suspicious. Also, Storr's response only mentions the vig comment, looking like Storr just wanted to discredit the case by attacking the weaker points. And then as soon as Jonny dies Storr comes out talking about how scum could have been framing him. We can't know exactly what mafia was thinking. But if the result is that Storr's trying to use the death to get suspicion off himself, it makes me think that's what the kill was intended for. Also: + Show Spoiler + On November 05 2013 05:09 JonnyLaw wrote: disclaimerThis post looks long but there's not a lot of actual reading. Please look over it. This post reads incredibly scummy. He's "pressuring" poofter while at the same time he's really trying to alleviate our fears about him. Oh, this is why he COULD be scum but I don't think so. Like really? A few short posts before this he tried to say cake and I are a scum team and should be lynched. Why don't you follow up on this read when no one else latches onto it. Well, Obzy does on me but that's different. Nyx and owb are playing badly. I'll eat my shoe if they're a scum team together. All of these posts combine keep pressure away from poofter, vonthin and odin. Check page 6 of storr's filter he's still riding cakeman. Cakeman was poofter's final vote as well. Why explain why those two are town? I don't know if they are. Why not look for someone who is not town? He's trying so hard to lynch lurkers on day 2. Lynching a lurker day 2 is so risky when we've made a solid case for poofter already. You're fucking right it's a bonus. It worked for July why not for nyx? Storr wanted to lynch nyx then votes owb. IT WORKED FOR JULY WHY NOT FOR OWB AS WELL! Storr then goes on to vote poofter and unvote him then revote him. No shit you are. This is at @owb No one wanted to vote for cakeman except poofter. DING DING DING Who went on myself and cakeman day 2? I'll answer that question. Storrzerg! It looked like I was going to implode with obzy and balla so it was easy pressure. He quickly backs off of questioning me at all when it's clear balla and I are having a good ole time scum hunting. This was Jonny's last case on Storr. You can wonder what scum were doing killing Jonny all you want, but townie logic is townie logic and should be seriously considered if the logic itself is sound. And I like at least some of Jonny's logic here; that weak pressure on poofter does look a bit suspicious. Also, Storr's response only mentions the vig comment, looking like Storr just wanted to discredit the case by attacking the weaker points. And then as soon as Jonny dies Storr comes out talking about how scum could have been framing him. We can't know exactly what mafia was thinking. But if the result is that Storr's trying to use the death to get suspicion off himself, it makes me think that's what the kill was intended for. ##Vote: StorrZerg Please guys? Can we lynch Storr first? owb is scummy too, but he shouldn't be too troublesome to kill if Storr somehow flips town. Storr feels a lot scummier to me, and I want the highest chance of a scumflip. | ||
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
After calming down and rereading it (and thinking some more) though, it's become easier to imagine Storr being town. Thinking from a town perspective, it's not too unreasonable for Storr to act like he did. Point is, I'm more comfortable waiting for owb to flip before I worry about Storr any further. Plus owb really is scummy, he barely posts anything helpful in the rare times he does post. His last point about Storr might be worth considering if he flips town, but otherwise it seems more like last minute misdirection. owb, please try and give us whatever you can. We'd value the logic with trustworthy intentions if you do flip town. ##Unvote ##Vote: onlywonderboy | ||
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Wait does this clear Storr if the owb/Storr pair is highly unlikely? ...yeah, I think it probably does unless I remember something wrong. Sorry for the heavy tunneling Storr. I'm probably an idiot. | ||
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
Aside from that I don't see anything helpful we can get from roleclaims in the night. | ||
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cakemanofdoom
336 Posts
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