White Flag Mafia

On October 31 2013 11:53 Asinine wrote:
Hello comrades. I will be doing an ASA (Ask Smurf Anything) today. It starts now. I cannot guarantee that I will answer any questions that seem to be fishing for my real TL account.

On November 01 2013 14:24 Grackaroni wrote:
I've seen town Oats. Town Oats would be arguing with me in all caps right now.

On November 01 2013 16:18 Laughing Jack wrote:
No, Are you happy with them? Do you think anyone's vote suck, do you think my vote suck? How would you like the votes to be, who do you want pressured?, is Pandain really your top scumread? Plenty to talk about.

On November 02 2013 02:56 Stutters695 wrote:
Explain your read on Grack please Panda.

On October 31 2013 22:00 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Hey all. First off I'll add my name to the very much against random lynching list for the exact reasons Oats posted.

Also, I'm suspicious of the people pushing for it. Most notably hzflank because he only said he was for it after people brought it up. Like, even though it's only a 30% chance, if I'm scum and someone talks about random lynching my first thought is probably something like "Oh god, what if one of us gets chosen? There'd be nothing we could do." So he makes his post saying he'd be for a RNG lynch to show everyone that he's not afraid of it. Even going as far as sayingHow in the world could his odds actually be worse than random? Even if he had no scumhunting skill whatsoever, it would be @ worst equal to random.

On October 31 2013 23:01 JarJarDrinks wrote:
##vote hzflank

Might as well untill I see a better choice. Seemed like there's a decent amount of support for a hzflank lynch

On November 01 2013 04:15 JarJarDrinks wrote:
OK, you're saying that you were being sarcastic in that post as well as the following one. Didn't understand that's what you were saying. If that's the case then it didn't come across that way to me at all but I can definately see it that way now.

Since that was the bulk of my case:

##unvote hzflank

On November 01 2013 12:22 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I think I'm not liking laughing jack right now. Go look @ his posts. He pretty much attacks me and that's it. Like he tells me my posts are fluff because I don't reach a conclusion about the RNG thing (even though I did). And then when I ask him outright what his position on it is, he dodges the question.

The rest of his posts are him asking other people their opinions.

On November 01 2013 23:30 JarJarDrinks wrote:
So, I think we should lynch a lurker. There's like 7 of em so odds are pretty good that there's scum among em.

Odin and hermeane haven't posted anything so they should probably be exempt.

Mig and fuba have like 2 posts each. And they both went after hzflank which seemed like an easy bandwagon @ the time

tehpoofter, Pandain, Bereft and Asinine can't have posted much either. I'm gonna go through their filters now.

On October 31 2013 23:19 Laughing Jack wrote:
I think we should be one Jarjar less at the end of this day.
##Vote: JarjarDrinks

On November 01 2013 03:09 mkfuba07 wrote:

Actually, I think I'm going to vote for him. He's talked quite a bit, but always ends with a noncommittal statement. He kind of narrates the thread, but doesn't give a conclusion.

As far as his involvement in the rng debate, the apparent inconsistency in his position is the most concerning thing to me, though I'm not even sure there is one. I think rng-ing would be bad play, so advocating for it or opposing it are pretty null. I agree with jjd that he appears to be supporting it in one post, then the next one appears to be agreeing with the first. However, I guess it could be interpreted the way hzflank says he meant it, so overall that just makes me lean slight scum on him.

Altogether, I feel pretty confident with a vote on hzflank.

##Vote: hzflank

On November 02 2013 05:46 mkfuba07 wrote:

dat omgus



My main issue with hzflank has always been that while he was posting a lot, he wasn't coming to conclusions. He was throwing accusatory statements around, then ending with the equivalent of "... but I don't know if he's scum or not." It gets suspicions out there but insulates him from the consequences of a mislynch.

My entire second paragraph was there because I'd spent a bit of time thinking about the rng discussion, and came to the conclusion that it made me only lean slightly scum on him. I often get bitched out for my first posts not being related to the ongoing discussion, and didn't want to sidetrack the thread by not commenting on the silly rng discussion that took over up to that point.

So long-story-short, my main reason for finding him scummy was that he was posting in a scummy manner, and my thoughts on him haven't changed a lot since then.

On November 01 2013 01:58 mkfuba07 wrote:

Would scum, knowingly voting for someone to look good, openly state that they're placing the vote because many others appear willing to do so?

On November 02 2013 06:55 Grackaroni wrote:
I don't think Mig is right Pandain. I loudly pushed Oats and only Laughing Jack jumped on the train and people haven't been very adamant in pushing up other targets of their own. I'd bet mafia are either almost entirely afk or content with a hzflank lynch.

On November 02 2013 07:56 Pandain wrote:
Okay, then do you think the votes are still piling up too quickly? I mean to be frank there are only three votes on him.

On November 02 2013 08:01 Asinine wrote:

I count four.

Honestly, votes pile up too quickly more often because town begins to play impulsively than because scum is piling on the target.

I think we have a classic case of misguided town being led astray by scum (hzflank) here.

On November 02 2013 07:17 Asinine wrote:
I'm still unimpressed with hzflank. His filter reeks of careful posturing which is reminiscent of standard scum play. Pursuing hzflank directly isn't netting immediate results because his posting is so meticulously crafted. However, I'll be leaving my vote on him if I cannot find any more convincing candidates.

I'll filter a few other players. Be back soon.

On October 31 2013 12:53 hzflank wrote:


As a conversation starter. Up until that point only little blue men were being discussed and I am unable to partake in that discussion to to my unfamiliarity with big green or red men. Obviously I did not think that Stutters' post gave a clue to his alignment, but I may not of conveyed the tone correctly.



Due to Stutters reply. As you begin to read his post he appears to care about what I said, then when you get to the end I realised that he does not care. There was no reason to continue that line of conversation with him and I had nothing that I wanted to post, so I decided to spare the poor tl.net servers the effort of adding another one of my posts for a short while.



But my post gave you something to post about and in turn gave me something to post about. Now I can wonder why you commented on my post twice even though that you thought my post had no purpose. You might be mafia looking for something to post about, but obviously this early in the game there is no real need for that. You may be town attempting to move a conversation forward. Or perhaps you genuinely thought I had a clue as to Stutter's alignment two hours into the game when only five people had posted, and felt the need to call me out on that. Either of those possibilities fit in with your second post.



The (rhetorical) question is: did you post that for the sake of posting something? Or did you post that hoping that I would reply directly to you? Or did you post that because when you were reading the thread for the first time you were already looking for scum, and my post was the only thing so far that looked like it might be scum?

I have no flipping idea, but less than five hours into the game and when I am tired, that's the best that I can do at the moment.



Oh, you wanted me to be less serious? Oops

On November 02 2013 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm back, gonna try to catch up but I skimmed that newbie game and I think Hz's play resembles that over Titanic and I'm willing to take a shot on it.

##vote: Hzflank

On November 02 2013 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm back, gonna try to catch up but I skimmed that newbie game and I think Hz's play resembles that over Titanic and I'm willing to take a shot on it.

##vote: Hzflank

On November 02 2013 08:41 OdinOfPergo wrote:
i cant't think the fact asinine having to fight fuba's stance for him 20 mins before the deadline is scummy?

On November 02 2013 08:49 Grackaroni wrote:
I don't think it's hz but fuba could be town too

On November 02 2013 09:09 Asinine wrote:

Check again, Stutter's vote was extraneous and was only placed after it was obvious that fuba would die.

On November 02 2013 08:47 Stutters695 wrote:
##Unvote
##vote: Mkfuba07

I really didn't want to do this because I like the points against Hz and Fuba will be easy to read as it goes on, but I'll give this a shot.

On November 02 2013 07:25 OdinOfPergo wrote:
I didn't like your early post. I'm still not sure how I feel about them now. But at least they are there. Fuba doesn't really put a lot of effort into it. He probably wasn't too worried because I'm pretty sure half the people in this thread expected me to get modkilled. It would of been harder to swing a vote off pandain and or you if myself and hermaene are modkilled.

On November 02 2013 08:50 Asinine wrote:
Alright. I hope we can lynch hz tomorrow. Time to wait for flip!

On November 02 2013 08:51 Asinine wrote:
That Stutters vote is soooo suspicious if fuba flips town. Let's not forget that post.

On November 02 2013 09:01 Asinine wrote:
Where is the night post!!!!

On November 02 2013 09:03 Asinine wrote:
I want to lynch Stutters tomorrow. I'm putting hzflank on the backburner until we lynch this guy.

On November 02 2013 09:12 Asinine wrote:
Oh right, Stutters unvoted as well as voted. Fair enough. I still think he should be looked into, along with tehpoofter,

On October 31 2013 23:19 Laughing Jack wrote:
I think we should be one Jarjar less at the end of this day.
##Vote: JarjarDrinks

On November 01 2013 17:52 Laughing Jack wrote:

Cool, and why would you want to see them spotlighted over others?
I think Odin is a terrible pick really. Since he's not been around, why did you pick him?

On November 03 2013 05:12 hzflank wrote:


Also do not forget the white flag mechanic.

I would avoid thinking too much about the replacement at the moment. There is nothing we can do about that yet.

On November 02 2013 05:07 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I pretty much only have about a 1/2 hour more to discuss before I leave work. I should be able to get on my phone to vote/change vote between then and the deadline but I wont be able to discuss much.

I want to vote for a lurker. Who should it be if not Pandain? I'm thinking maybe fuba?

On November 02 2013 08:33 JarJarDrinks wrote:
##unvote
##vote: fuba

I can't believe people are voting for one of the most active people in the game when the race is between him and someone w/ 3 posts.

On October 31 2013 11:14 Bereft wrote:
i'm back! this being my first normal game i was terrified there would be 100 new pages by now. but there are only 8 new -- albeit extremely high quality -- posts.



is he a Palmar smurf, you think? i honestly thought they were the same person up until yesterday. i hope that's inoffensive for either party - i just have trouble focusing on more than 2 letters or so at a time.

On November 03 2013 06:40 Grackaroni wrote:

Good because I vigged Oats

On November 03 2013 07:17 Bereft wrote:

i think whether they choose to prosecute him really depends on how they're evaluating risk/reward in the scenario. obviously as you and grack were the ones that put hard pressure where none previously existed you are town, unless that was some fucking brilliant play. but to the voters who followed you, no, i don't see avoiding the conflict entirely as the obvious overarching mafia strategy here.

On November 03 2013 07:19 Pandain wrote:
By the way if mafia shoots Grack I'll find your house and kill you

On November 03 2013 07:26 Hopeless1der wrote:
Hi guys. I'm actually headed out shortly so I wont be caught up until tomorrow evening at the earliest. Thankfully its nighttime so I have some time. If you have anything you would like me to focus on when I go to read the thread (I haven't yet) please let me know. kthxbai.

On October 31 2013 13:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
Stutters post about lynching me or Grack is really odd. He doesnt explain why our posts are weird and seems to be just throwing unfounded suspicion on everyone.

On October 31 2013 14:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
I liked it too. Its not really defense, more like a running commentary. Stutters, are you gonna call anyone town?

On October 31 2013 22:23 Oatsmaster wrote:

Not every post has to 'help' town. How does you saying you want to lynch me and Grack help town? It doesnt.
Are you scum?

On November 01 2013 22:00 Oatsmaster wrote:

I wanna know who you would kill NOW stutters.

On November 01 2013 22:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
So are you lynching him because he is scum, or are you lynching him because regardless of the flip, he will provide info. Info that I have no idea about. That so far you have adequately explain.

On November 01 2013 23:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
No, what im asking is how will this 'INFO' help us lynch mafia the next day. What exactly do you mean by info?

On November 03 2013 07:26 Hopeless1der wrote:
Hi guys. I'm actually headed out shortly so I wont be caught up until tomorrow evening at the earliest. Thankfully its nighttime so I have some time. If you have anything you would like me to focus on when I go to read the thread (I haven't yet) please let me know. kthxbai.

On November 01 2013 04:49 Asinine wrote:
Having just caught up to the thread, I see no reason not to vote hzflank. He continues to sidestep accusations and fails to provide any answers to my questions.

##vote: hzflank

On November 02 2013 08:03 Asinine wrote:

All I saw was "mkfuba is apathetic" and a few quotes of his posts.

First of all, apathy isn't a sure-fire scumtell. Apathy is usually an indication of disinterest. While scum are more likely to appear disinterested than town are, you'll need a broader set of evidence to convince me that mkfuba is scum.

On November 03 2013 06:36 Asinine wrote:

1) Here we can see a type of apathy that is reminiscent of scum play. He is saying that he doesn't care who is lynched.

On November 03 2013 13:13 OdinOfPergo wrote:
About Poof lurking, I'm not decided one way or the other.
I'll just say trying to keep up with two games has been pretty difficult for me personally.
This could be the case for him too.
I do have to agree that Oats flipping red makes me feel better about Grack.
I was somewhere on the fence about him but one of my biggest things between Oats/Grack was the drug out argument that just controlled the thread for a while. It gave me bad vibes that one of them could be scum or could just be two townies muling at eachother.

On November 02 2013 08:47 Tehpoofter wrote:
##Vote mkfuba07

I don't like his accusations on hzfanks I think between the two he looks the most scummy in his filter.

I honestly don't like either of the two main lynches but its too close to deadline now. I realize my activity has been shit but as for now I think that Grack is most town to me his aggressive style with his constant pings make me think he is the most town by far and I think on the early grack/oats fight both are just town argueing with town.

As of now town is grack/oats more to come during the night.

On November 02 2013 08:41 OdinOfPergo wrote:
i cant't think the fact asinine having to fight fuba's stance for him 20 mins before the deadline is scummy?

On November 03 2013 07:52 JarJarDrinks wrote:

This post from Mig seems so disingenuous. I can understand him defending himself by pointing out that he was scum hunting. But does he really believe that someone thinking he's scum means that person has no common sense simply because he "put legitimate effort into scum hunting"? Where was Migs common sense when voting for hzflank, who put more effort into scum hunting than most did?

On November 03 2013 14:14 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Please look into Mig some more.

Look @ how Mig avoids actually saying anything while still trying to keep me as possible scum in peoples minds here:
So he thinks that my whole bandwagon vote could be a noob scum move. But it could also be noob town. But for some reason he's leaning town on me. Well why is he leaning town on me? Because he just said the bandwagon vote thing was null. You'd think he's say "I'm leaning scum on JJD because...."

So I thought @ first, well maybe he was liking the fact that I was going after hzflank since that was his main scumread throughout all of day 1. But I reread and Mig made this post AFTER I backed off of HZ.

I would think that if he really suspected HZ then the fact that I pressured him a bunch and then 180ed my opinion would likely make him MORE suspicious of me. Not less.

Like I really can't figure out why he would have had a town read on me @ that point.

On November 03 2013 23:15 JarJarDrinks wrote:
##Vote Laughing Jack

I've been saying all game that his posts have no consistency. Totally abonding his scumread on me for what seemed like no reason. Speaking of which:OK, this post was after he already said that he didn't want to lynch me anymore. He had already posted his diagram and had said that he wanted to lynch HZ or oats.

So when I read that he's going to a party and will try to find some corner to read and vote, doesn't that sound like there's a chance he wont make it back to the thread? So why wouldn't he move his vote off of me and on to someone he does want to lynch just incase?

I think that if fuba wasn't threatened, we would have never seen LJ again last night. It's not a coincidence that he managed to find time to vote right when Fuba pulled into a tie w/ HZ.

And that doesn't even mention the fact that he said he wanted to vote a lurker in that post and voted the super active guy.

On November 04 2013 11:33 Hopeless1der wrote:
Lol like a set of twins over there.

On November 04 2013 11:50 Mig wrote:
If asinine is mafia then who is his scummate? tehpoofter/hopeless/bereft/LJ all voting for him.

On November 05 2013 03:06 Bereft wrote:

but you'll vote for me? in what world is his play less scummy than mine??

On November 03 2013 09:07 Bereft wrote:
i will follow grackapack to victory

##Vote: Asinine

On November 05 2013 03:28 Asinine wrote:
I'm just curious. To all those voting me, who exactly is my teammate? Do you really think my teammate would throw me under the bus when its just me and him left in this game?

On November 05 2013 03:20 Asinine wrote:

I'm not going to reveal my TL ID just because you want it. That defeats the whole purpose of smurfing. The fact that I am town is clearly evident in my filter. If people cannot see it, it is because they are scum or they are not reading my filter. They will be punished after I flip.

On November 05 2013 06:34 Stutters695 wrote:
Well I've read quite a few filters and I'm having a hard time justifying anyone over asinine.

##vote: Asinine

On November 07 2013 12:44 Bereft wrote:
true story.


also pandain i missed this earlier - i joined newbies because i only played a handful of games almost 3 years ago and if this game was any indication i need the practice!

i noticed you had a slight town lean on me after day 1 which transitioned into a hardcore scum read on day 2. i know part of it was due to my absence (i lacked the motivation to fight it out once oats got vig'ed and an asinine lynch was practically a certainty), but was a large part from reading my newbie games??

there seems a lot more meta focus than i remember there being in the past..