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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On October 04 2013 00:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
BH if you are still thinking i am scum ask me what do you want to know now please.
I'm still catching up on the thread, i haven't read everything yet. HOW CONVENIENT that you're leaving now!
So. Why the sudden activity burst? Is your only excuse for posting tons of crappy oneliners that you somehow couldn't post? How were you planning to help town for the first 3/4 of D1 with your level of activity? Why shouldn't I lynch you?
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On October 03 2013 21:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 21:53 marvellosity wrote:On October 03 2013 21:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 03 2013 21:49 marvellosity wrote:On October 03 2013 21:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 03 2013 21:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok HF is like confirmed town. Cool shit.
Rayn, it is a random lynch.
No it's not. It is not. If you know the target before you say if you agree/not with a random lynch it's no more a random lynch. I was about to tell you you're being silly, then I suddenly understood what you meant. The fact that I was confused for a moment suggests to me that there isn't that much to be made of the point, though. Now do you think Blazinghand is stupid enough to not know this in the first place? As he proposed the shit. I don't think that much of it. It *is* a conversation starter, and what was the agenda? Random lynches never go through. Generally I find random lynch stuff really null, because I never really get any decent reads out of either the proposer or the followers. You know, to me it did not look like a conversation starter. BH never said it was, at least before someone else (Clarity) said so. To me it looked more like "let's gun for Oats as he was randomed" and then BH developed a shit read on Oats.
the #1 way to kill a conversation starter is call it a conversation starter (just like calling a vote a "pressure vote" makes it much weaker). town 101
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On October 03 2013 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 22:01 marvellosity wrote:
rayn, why are you going after Holy now when you've shown no incliniation to go after him before he came back to the thread?
I don't understand. Because i tend to interact with people who are in thread. I'm impatient to wait for answers for hours, i have a train of thought and i want to disclose it with quick back and forth discussion. That's what i always do.
this is like kinda literally not true given that I've posted and quoted a game (link) (link) in which although you do some back and forth, you're writing big cases as well. Big posts. serious reads. strong plays up front. Plays like this:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 16 2013 20:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 13:48 slOosh wrote:
Hey guys.
If people are unsure about how to mason, they should just avoid using it. Worst thing we can do is have all the discussion going on in PM land and nothing to go off of someone's alignment other than their mason's read on them.
While Vayne made a personal choice not to mason, you seem to be directing people to avoid using it. Do you have an inherent motivation to discourage people from masoning? A discussion in "PM land" doesn't prevent discussions from happening in thread. I can't see why you would recommend people not to mason at all. I actually second this. Sloosh answer. This is really stupid, everyone should mason. There is no reason not to. Why do you think there is? ##Vote: slOoshAs for Hapa's questions: + Show Spoiler +On July 16 2013 13:17 Hapahauli wrote:
Hey all!
Regarding PM usage, I think a very good early use of PM's is to try and establish the alignment of someone you know very well. For instance, I already used my first mason on Yamato77, who I'm very adept at reading and is a pretty good town player. Through these efforts I will slowly build a scum-hunting circle of awesomeness.
I'll admit I'm a tad worried about the post-count restriction and our ability to jumpstart Day 1 reliably, especially if spammy players are concerned about the post-limit. As a result, perhaps a good 'ol fashioned questionnaire might be best to kick things off!
1) What are your views on PM usage? How and when should they be used?
2) Are there any policy lynches around the posting-limit we should consider? (i.e. if someone doesn't use all their posts, they get lynched, etc)
3) Who are players you feel you can read very well and reliably in this game? 1) To find scum. Not going to be more specific, but i want to know why are you so eager to know this from all the players? 2) No, lurkers should be vigged asap. If someone wastes their posts on bullshit we lynch them. 3) Oats. Vayne. Both town. DrH, please if you are town. Do not waste your posts arguing with Vayne. His argument is more likely to come from a townie than from mafia, and you are just wasting posts into that. Vayne will prove his alignment later for sure, but he is probably town. FirmTofu, What was the purpose of your first post? You yourself said "it should not be considered alignment indicative", and basically everything you said i disagree with, or the statements / "advice" is obvious. Why would you make a post that does not help us finding scum or figuring out your alignment? VE, explain your vote on DrH, how does that make him scum? Do you think he is intentionally wasting his posts? Malongo, yes i'm a Finn. Now do something that finds us mafia? On July 17 2013 03:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 20:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 16 2013 14:05 FirmTofu wrote:On July 16 2013 13:48 slOosh wrote:
Hey guys.
If people are unsure about how to mason, they should just avoid using it. Worst thing we can do is have all the discussion going on in PM land and nothing to go off of someone's alignment other than their mason's read on them.
While Vayne made a personal choice not to mason, you seem to be directing people to avoid using it. Do you have an inherent motivation to discourage people from masoning? A discussion in "PM land" doesn't prevent discussions from happening in thread. I can't see why you would recommend people not to mason at all. I actually second this. Sloosh answer. This is really stupid, everyone should mason. There is no reason not to. Why do you think there is? ##Vote: slOosh Show me where I said no one should mason. I meant you are discouraging people to mason if they are unsure of what to do with PM's. That's dumb. Why are you telling people they don't need to mason anyone if they do not want to? Of course they do, because it helps town. If you are unsure of what to do with your PM's and therefore do not mason, don't listen to slOosh, he should know better.
Mason me and i'll tell you what to do. FFS you can ask your mason partner how you should use your PM's, and tell the thread what he said. Be creative and not fall into this dumb "i'm so bad in off-thread comm, i ignore it" bullshit.I will lynch you if you ignore it, because off thread comm helps town more than it helps mafia. It gives the town opportunity to make plans and catch scum in different ways. And don't give that bullshit "what if you mason mafia or are wrong about your read". That'll come clear eventually, or you out your logs and someone else might be able to see it. TLDR;Everyone needs to mason 2 people, not necessarily at the start of the game. If you dont know what to do with PM's, mason me.
gumshoe explain to me how you reached your conclusion in the DrH/FirmTofu exchange? On July 17 2013 03:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 20:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 16 2013 14:05 FirmTofu wrote:On July 16 2013 13:48 slOosh wrote:
Hey guys.
If people are unsure about how to mason, they should just avoid using it. Worst thing we can do is have all the discussion going on in PM land and nothing to go off of someone's alignment other than their mason's read on them.
While Vayne made a personal choice not to mason, you seem to be directing people to avoid using it. Do you have an inherent motivation to discourage people from masoning? A discussion in "PM land" doesn't prevent discussions from happening in thread. I can't see why you would recommend people not to mason at all. I actually second this. Sloosh answer. This is really stupid, everyone should mason. There is no reason not to. Why do you think there is? ##Vote: slOosh Show me where I said no one should mason. I meant you are discouraging people to mason if they are unsure of what to do with PM's. That's dumb. Why are you telling people they don't need to mason anyone if they do not want to? Of course they do, because it helps town. If you are unsure of what to do with your PM's and therefore do not mason, don't listen to slOosh, he should know better.
Mason me and i'll tell you what to do. FFS you can ask your mason partner how you should use your PM's, and tell the thread what he said. Be creative and not fall into this dumb "i'm so bad in off-thread comm, i ignore it" bullshit.I will lynch you if you ignore it, because off thread comm helps town more than it helps mafia. It gives the town opportunity to make plans and catch scum in different ways. And don't give that bullshit "what if you mason mafia or are wrong about your read". That'll come clear eventually, or you out your logs and someone else might be able to see it. TLDR;Everyone needs to mason 2 people, not necessarily at the start of the game. If you dont know what to do with PM's, mason me.
gumshoe explain to me how you reached your conclusion in the DrH/FirmTofu exchange?
With back-and-forth, serious on-topic pushes, clarification, and a clear delineation of reads. That's not what you've been doing until now, as the deadline approaches, after I laid smackdown on you. How is this not scum rayne? How can anyone look at your town play, and look at this game, and say "oh this is some not seen before variation on town rayne"
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On October 04 2013 00:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:wtf are you trying to say. I am not following you. You ask me "why am i not posting in the first 3/4 of the day". I told you why. What's this shit BH?
I'm not asking why you haven't posted, I'm asking why you haven't posted content. You've clearly been in and out of the thread. IRL is no excuse. Your cases, such as they are, are bad:
first case, after I call you out: (link)
this isn't even a case. this is a worthless list post. What is this? How is this useful? Like, sure, you give lots of reads, but most of what you write is about how my RNG is bad, then you say dirk is scummire and BH is unreadable, but BH is also you third bust scumread, and you vote dirk without a lot of explanation. You r next case (link) is on holyflare who you considered less scummy than both me and sloosh (?) but are still willing to vote over us and dirk (though this case, albeit nonsensical, seems internally consistent), then you move back to dirk without a lot of explanation (link) and honestly it just looks like you're throwing crap at the wall and seeing what will stick.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Man if sloosh is the other serious wagon I guess I should develop a better idea of whether or not I'm willing to lynch him today. work work work
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Man I'm just gonna throw this out there but we don't have a cop or a vigi this game right? How good are you gonna be with that oats read Marv? cause, well, as you, me, rayne, and clarity know, towns have been burned before for letting Oats live to lylo.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
I guess I'm happier with this new more active Rayn and would be okay letting him live for a day since we need to get together into a majority in the next ~8 hours or we no-lynch. I can't really justify lynching him, even if he's pretty damn scummy, over Oats when I'll be able to get a more solid read on Rayn over time (if he's scum he'll screw up). Then again, Oats doesn't seem to be happening either. fack.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Man, I kinda like this sloosh lynch. I do see what's being said about him changing his mind between here (link) and here (link) and why that's a bit suspicious. I will say that there are a couple mitigating factors. 1, he initially was reacting to a case and said it wasn't too compelling. Risen's case didn't directly address the point that sloosh brought up later, so it's possible sloosh was a lazy ass and didn't actually read clarity's filter. 2, there's an in-between post that actually imo makes this ok:
On October 03 2013 11:10 slOosh wrote:
Ohh BH, thoughts on clarity?
it looks to be like slOosh may have been changing his mind on clarity then, at 11 (at 10, he was null or town on clarity. at 12 he voted clarity). Perhaps he was rereading the filter, and the thing popped out at him, so he popped into the thread to ask me a question. I find this a reasonable explanation of sloosh's actions.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On October 04 2013 01:18 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 01:17 Clarity_nl wrote:On October 04 2013 01:16 Blazinghand wrote:
I guess I'm happier with this new more active Rayn and would be okay letting him live for a day since we need to get together into a majority in the next ~8 hours or we no-lynch. I can't really justify lynching him, even if he's pretty damn scummy, over Oats when I'll be able to get a more solid read on Rayn over time (if he's scum he'll screw up). Then again, Oats doesn't seem to be happening either. fack. Could you condense your read on oats for us? Rather than going "welp my lynch aint happening, bummer" Agreed with this. If you're really convinced Oats is the best lynch, then argue coherently for it.
Man I'm really not which is the problem. Like, I think oats a dick and a liability, but I'm not convinced he's scum from his posting. I wouldn't mind lynching him since I'm not sure I'll be able to get a read on him all game, and he loves to fuck things up at lylo, but if I had a case I'd be posting it and yelling at you guys to vote with me.
I think we're not lynching Oats today.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
In any case, a sloosh lynch is a lynch for the same reason I thought rayne was a good lynch. Sloosh has been effectively inactive. Taking a look at his catch-22 filter, though, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=417453&user=slOosh&view=all he's clearly capable of this play as town. Though, that time, he questions DP and pushes other people for info before dropping his (without case) vote.
OK, so I take it back. Sloosh lynch is lynching sloosh for being sloosh imo
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
I will say this: sloosh this game is playing less aggressively than he did in C-22. He doesn't push clarity for info really. But his low activity style with the not terribly well explained vote is the same. I'd consider him town (as in, a townread) if he had prodded other players and developed his clarity read more seriously before the vote. I don't consider this departure from sloosh's C-22 play significant enough to warrant a lynch though.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On October 04 2013 01:27 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 01:25 Blazinghand wrote:In any case, a sloosh lynch is a lynch for the same reason I thought rayne was a good lynch. Sloosh has been effectively inactive. Taking a look at his catch-22 filter, though, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=417453&user=slOosh&view=all he's clearly capable of this play as town. Though, that time, he questions DP and pushes other people for info before dropping his (without case) vote. OK, so I take it back. Sloosh lynch is lynching sloosh for being sloosh imo That leaves who for your choice of lynch? Risen?
Hm.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On October 04 2013 01:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So BH, who do you actually want to lynch? You've now given 3 target all of which you have retracted from...
Yeah, I have huh. I'll reread Dirk and see if there's a good reason tehre, and since clarity's on my dick he deserves a reread as well.
For now? I guess I'm actually gonna have to go with you, or Oats if that gains traction (since we need 5 votes). This departure from your normal play is still huge, even if you claim mitigating circumstances, and I think I can make a decent case that we need to lynch Oats eventually anyways.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Hm okay actually Risen is a great lynch
##unvote
##vote Risen
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
So basically despite his mondo case I don't see Risen as actually trying to get clarity lynched in a legitimate way. What am I saying here? Well okay check dis shit out
Oct 03 3:33 Risen posts case (link). I think we can generally agree that this case was, whether Risen is town or scum, written AFTER he decided clarity was scum. Most of this shit is just innocuous crap that clarity wrote and Risen saying "HAHA JUST LIKE A SCUMMER" or something like that. Now granted, we all tunnel and write bad cases from time to time. Not even I am immune from this! But tunnelling and overlooking bad evidence isn't something you do by accident as a townie. It's something you do because you really genuinely believe your target is scum. You are so blinded by the "fact" that he's scum that you overlook evidence that he's town. You tunnel him. You try to get people on his wagon. You drive the wagon, but it is because you are DRIVEN. you believe.
Risen does not believe. This is his followup:
On October 03 2013 05:41 Risen wrote:
And so the cycle continues where I accuse someone of being scum and they're immune to lynch.
On October 03 2013 12:50 Risen wrote:
I would like more people's thoughts on my case on Clarity and Clarity's response.
2 and 9 hours later, respectively. And it's been 12 hours since then, for almost 24 hours now.
He doens't care about his clarity case, hwich doesn't match up with "risen tunnels clarity". You either don't care about the case, or you do. It's not "I care about it enough that i'm blinded by my fervor, but somehow am not gonna attempt to actually convince people of it"
that isn't a case, that's a fucking excuse for his vote.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On October 04 2013 01:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay i don't like BH at all..
yeah well rayn there's a non-trivial chance you're scum so NYAAAAA
On October 04 2013 01:33 marvellosity wrote:
I'm super-curious how BH is gonna justify the Risen lynch when he defended the slOosh lynch on meta.
Best include Risen's recent town meta too.
too much effort. my analysis is good
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On October 04 2013 01:37 marvellosity wrote:
yeah he did that in Noir, BH
what of it?
yes, Noir is a good example of town play we should use that to determine people's metas.
brb 24 hours not posting
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On October 04 2013 01:37 marvellosity wrote:
Further, why aren't you using meta in your case on someone, when you keep defending people with meta?
too lazy
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EPT
