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I didn't look townie that game  But ... BC? i think, had a red check on geript so he got lynched over me on D2, and the game ended after D3 basically, either that or it was D3/D4.
There was no pre-planning. I did a crapton of spamming QT alone about how I think crossfire is a bus driving NRA member vet, when trying to figure out who to shoot the night before the final lynch. I spent my whole weekend dealing with an ex IRL and making charts about crossfire and what he might do with his 8 billion stupid townie powers.
I never intended to claim. I thought game was over. Crossfire was a vote thief, and I was brain dead enough after my weekend to think that once he stole a vote once it was stuck where he put it. So I claimed in response to that, thinking there was no way to lose.
No plan. Super tryhard after that, but ... entirely not pre-planned.
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On October 11 2013 10:59 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 10:57 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 11 2013 10:52 austinmcc wrote:On October 11 2013 10:49 WaveofShadow wrote:
Austin I have one question for you.
When you were outed as scum in PTP at the end of the game, did you lie about anything regarding yourself and/or when you attempted to get kita lynched?
If so, what did you lie about? (it's been a long time since that game and I was already long dead at that point---don't feel like rereading again but I will if you make me.) Yeah. We both doctored our PMs. Kita doctors his QT to make it look like he was neutral survivor, I doctored geript and myself in QT to make it look like geript told me kita had claimed mafia-aligned 3P. I also edited OUT any mentions of my mind control power, as it was necessary to my winning. But in general, once I accidentally claimed, I was honest and in an odd way scumhunted kita, trying to convince gonzaw/crossfire that kita was the more dangerous anti-town faction. Otherwise, apart from editing out mind control and rewording a couple geript posts, it's all legit. Truth and healthy healthy amounts of paranoia. Dudes who wait til N23 or N27 or whatever to NK the last townie in a 1-1 scenario are not dudes who let their scumbuddies claim scum. Yeah but that's not what I was getting at. Besides, you claimed scum yourself that game. I was essentially just trying to see exactly how tryhard you played it towards end and exactly how much pre-planning and lying there was involved because I never understood exactly what happened at the end of that game. It turns out quite a lot. It's a shame because all your answer did was show me that no matter how towny you look here, it don't mean shit.  Like the issue is I was trying to see if that 'healthy dose of paranoia' you threw into that game and you had this game are in any way different and it turns out they're not. If you're capable of real paranoia as scum you're certainly capable of faking it here imo, or having it be real as town. Oh, gotcha. I don't think I was pushing kita based on paranoia.
We KNEW he had shots. We KNEW he had claimed a role some rewording of weeping angel, that's a villian in the Dr. Who universe. I KNEW via geript that he was not neutral, or...was like 90% certain, based on what geript had said. So it wasn't preying on paranoia to lynch kita.
I AM paranoid as scum, but it comes out in a different way. Check the last bit of scum QT from PTP4, or from...Aperture 3. I get crazy paranoid over shots, who might have what power, etc. etc. etc. Either one of those highlights my paranoia outlet as scum, I just blabber on in QT about all the possible things that could happen.
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Cheese doesn't join me in wanting to lynch outside the cops. He does consider that solstice might be town, make some comments on that, but I don't interpret his "YOLO" as wanting to join me.
2) His stance on FT, there is literally no way anyone could think he is town -- by Austins methods, CR should have looked way more town than FT OF COURSE there are ways to think someone is town. LOOK AT YOUR POST. I'm scummy because I had a 100% scumread. But I'm also scummy because I thought FT was town, when there's NO WAY that could be the case.
You're arguing FT was 100% scummy AND that I was scummy for finding CR 100% scum.
Do you not see this? The inconsistency between those statements AND the fact that you're arguing that there was no way ANYONE could think a townie was town. You're saying FT played an ENTIRELY scum game, every post, every thought, every read. That's ridiculous.
3) His 100% sure scumread on CR Never participates in the thread. Dumps pre-made posts. Avoids making reads based on posts posts posts, always couches his reads in terms of who looks good/bad from specific actions and branches out from there. Has a nothingread on Palmar, who appears to maybe be scum or maybe be town, but CR wants to save him anyway without actually finding him townie. You can't go FT obv scum, solstice obv scum and koshi obv cop, pandain obv scum, but CR totes not obv scum.
And nope, couldn't distinguish! See my early scumread on Koshi. I was scummy on BOTH of them early on. So yeah, I had a scumread on solstice, who claimed cop, maybe shoulda distrusted more. But I also had a scumread on koshi before his claim. And solstice DOES back up some of his claims with posts. I noted that a lot of his "we checked x" claims were supported by Hiro's posts, not solstice's, but he DID have some support for his actions. Paranoid, I've done dumb stuff before and always assume other people can, etc. etc.
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Just as a side note, I'm going to crack up if cheese is mafia and was trying to signal the other team here:
On October 05 2013 06:24 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
We should totes lynch oats tho. Seeing red flips is so invigorating and DIFFERENT! I love me some random caps, but it's a curious capitalization.
Not gonna lynch or not lynch based on that, but lol if it's a signal. Palmar and Pandain both claim, Cheese signals.
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Again, if the team is solstice/CR/austinmcc, I don't bus them. They bus me. CR busses us and lives.
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On October 12 2013 01:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Austin do you think it's possible for WoS/Vayne to be scum? Yes. VA still worries me, but looking over WoS he didn't as much.
The palmar stuff is still butt, otherwise not butt.
I want to look back through him, but current thought process is this:
He looked scummy in particular for post-oats death. And I get paranoid that him going "Yeah, if we have two lynches, I'm perfectly fine lynching oats --> austin" means he's scum and knows that when it's just VA/austinmcc left as lynches, if he leaves you up you probably lynch me (I also assume this is true for him in reverse). But the way in which we've argued has made me townier on him, I think the points he's making are mostly decent and he's not...reaching.
It's the opposite of why I hated the cheese post on oats, where it feels like cheese's thought process if "I want oats to be mafia, so I need to find some stuff that supports that, here is some stuff." The more I fought with VA, and the more I watch his reads develop, they don't appear to be "I need to come to this conclusion, now I will work out the posts to get there."
But if it ain't cheese, it ends up being VA. A quick read of WoS's early days only popped up a single thing that MIGHT be scummy, and that's a reach to say that all his stuff about TL towns being terrible and town sucking and being awful was a way to signal that he's mafia to the other team. Entirely speculative, means very little, and so apart from his Palmar read, he doesn't stand out to me. Given that he'd be on the other team from Palmar, that wonky read matters less than when he could potentially be on Palmar's team.
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There's a lot of hims and parts where I don't specify.
Second sentence concerns WoS. 3rd-5th blurbs concern VA.
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On October 12 2013 02:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So you do not find these towntells you found from for example FT's posts from Vayne's posts?
I mean, with some people you seem to be working differently than others. FirmTofu had some posts "mafia could not make", same with Pandain. It's not like every single post makes someone mafia. And there are no "townslips". Read Titanic where i couldn't get FirmTofu lynched all game because he townslipped on D1. Funny.. he was mafia. I haven't noticed any while playing through, and almost at this point it doesn't matter.
I DO see very very townie progressions in WoS's filter, and I'm not mafia.
I will read through and let you know once I'm out of this game
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At this point though, I have three options. CC/VA/WoS.
So if it ain't cc, it's one of the other two, regardless of townie play.
I also maintain that, whether he's played townie or scummily, those posts on oats come from the mafia mindset. Cheese has his own mafia mindset post on oats though and now it can only be one person.
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Pausing to respond
On October 12 2013 02:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 02:47 austinmcc wrote:
At this point though, I have three options. CC/VA/WoS.
So if it ain't cc, it's one of the other two, regardless of townie play.
I also maintain that, whether he's played townie or scummily, those posts on oats come from the mafia mindset. Cheese has his own mafia mindset post on oats though and now it can only be one person. No it doesn't. "I don't find the "convincing others" part to be very fun or interesting. I just like seeing if what I am doing is correct. "Whether or not you think this is wise it's a perfect summary of how Vayne plays as town. Unless he has changed his meta a full 180 this is town!Vayne without any doubt. Ya, those posts come from mafia mindset. As far as meta, VA himself seems to love claiming that he has none/changes it/can't be read/etc. etc. You believe that all to be crap? (full disclosure, I do, but at the very least he claims to muddy the waters on his town style)
On October 12 2013 02:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vayne's reaction to Oats confirmation would be a scumtell for most of the people playing mafia, but not to him. He cares more about if he is right or not compared to who is winning or who gets lynched. I already addressed this. It's not about right or wrong on the read. There are two ways to respond to being wrong.- I can't believe I was wrong on my read. Oats's PLAY has been scummy, so I cannot believe he would play like this as town.
- I can't believe I was wrong on my read. Koshi you're dumb for checking oats.
We just avoided a mislynch probably. EVEN IF HE THINKS OATS SUPER SCUMMY, the townie response to being wrong is "Wow, I hate oats right now for playing so scummy as town, cannot believe he's town, but boy howdy thank you Koshi for stopping a mislynch." The scummy response is "WoW, I hate oats right now for playing so scummy as town and Koshi I cannot believe you burned your check on oats, he was probably going to bulletproof as scum, maybe you're wrong, you're probably wrong."
The townie response attacks oats's play, because oats's perceived poor play made him look scummy. The scummy response attacks the cop for taking a "bad shot," and figures out reasons why Koshi was dumb and his check might be wrong.
VA did the scummy response and only like 20-30 minutes later did he finally utter the townie "can't believe oats was town while playing that way."
VA may really want to be right, but he can be wrong and attack oats or attack koshi. His posts indicate he almost blamed koshi for his own wrong read on oats - bad target, oats might still be scum.
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On October 12 2013 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So why does he do that as mafia?
Is it more likely that he wants to claim scum rather than that he cannot believe Oats was town and was angry because of it?
Which is more likely? Why does he do that as mafia? Cuz he wants to respond to the check and possibly undermine it, still get oats lynched. Or just because he wants to respond, feels like he should post about this, and makes a scummy post. Mafia make scummy posts, it happens.
It's not about oats being townie and him being angry. It's about oats being townie and him being angry AT SOMETHING. The something he's angry at is important. People who blame the cop for checking, and do so based on misrepresenting how things probably play out (oats prime bulletproof target as mafia), are more likely to be mafia.
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On October 12 2013 03:15 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 03:13 austinmcc wrote:On October 12 2013 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So why does he do that as mafia?
Is it more likely that he wants to claim scum rather than that he cannot believe Oats was town and was angry because of it?
Which is more likely? Why does he do that as mafia? Cuz he wants to respond to the check and possibly undermine it, still get oats lynched. Or just because he wants to respond, feels like he should post about this, and makes a scummy post. Mafia make scummy posts, it happens. It's not about oats being townie and him being angry. It's about oats being townie and him being angry AT SOMETHING. The something he's angry at is important. People who blame the cop for checking, and do so based on misrepresenting how things probably play out (oats prime bulletproof target as mafia), are more likely to be mafia. do you have like statistical data to back up that last statement? LOL Yaya. 9/10 dentists agree.
No stats, but it worked with ange in ... rock band mini. She reacted in a slightly wonky way to a screwed up claim about 5 minutes before we lynched a mason, and the way she did it showed she wasn't actually thinking about whether the claim was legit or not. That's the only time I can think of that a particular reaction has felt mafia mindset-y to me. I won't claim that 1/1 is equivalent to it being correct all ova da place.
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On October 12 2013 03:16 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ehhhhh
I'm not 100% sure on Vayne (mostly because my recent townread is based on some mind-meld town POV stuff, and every other time I've based reads on like one post this game I've been wrong), but I don't necessarily see how that's a scum reaction.
I'd be WAY more careful as scum to let my anger over losing a mislynch target spill into the thread. Like.,...why would you not fake the joy or go for the townie reaction here?
I 100% would. I get this, rayn is saying the same thing, "Why would he do that?"
It boils down to the options:
A townie had the scummy reaction and attacked the cop for stopping a mislynch, trying to undermine the veracity of the check.
OR
A mafia player posted a scummy post.
Sometimes they slip, sometimes they post too quick, I know I've posted stuff as mafia and gone OH NO NO NO. Other people have outed themselves as mafia through single posts, it DOES happen. And most of the time, if someone accidentally slips, it's going to be when a plan goes awry, something mafia didn't expect suddenly pops up and they react to it.
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On October 12 2013 03:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also can't get past Austin's reaction to CR claiming scum on N4. P'shaw. We'll find out soon enough why he did that, but I still think it's to try and look townie.
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Stream of consciousness Vayne's filter:- Early BH kill suspicion slightly mafia. Never really GOES anywhere with it.
- Conversation with CR after N1 kills gut townie. CR arguing that BH was shot by police, VA probably the most argumentative there, countering each CR argument. Don't see this as a point that needs mafia/mafia arguing over to look good.
- Paranoid minor scum on VA addressing CR's post attacking him. People have poked VA, wanted to policy lynch VA, voted him, but his response to CR is the first time he just goes off on why the person attacking him is wrong, but then also makes no conclusion about CR's alignment. Reads like he's interacting differently with the CR attack than other attacks. However, I actually like that VA also draws reads (WoS town) because of the way folks react to the CR post. Looks more like someone trying to figure out the game.
- Lots of speculation not just on NKs, but on ... cop actions. Hiro gets shot and he's immediately trying to figure out what powers we lost. Possible fishing, not especially scummy on its own given his apprent kill/action bent.
- His push on oats is neutral. I push for his reasoning, he says it's really just oats's inactivity, notes that inactive oats in Nuclear was scum. No attempt to grab any extra reasons.
Apart from those small reactions, here are two large things that stick out to me. One has already been covered ad nauseum, the other is his posts on CR.
On October 01 2013 14:26 VayneAuthority wrote:
alright now I get to tear you to shreds. Let me show you why you're making a grave error here.
1. You say FT looks town because he is going after "good players that aren't considered to be scummy by the majority." I have been doing the same thing by going after grackaroni, palmar, and pandain yet I am somehow scum to you. Contradiction #1
2. You are complaining about my personality and my playstyle, not mentioning things that make me scummy. If it was as simple as people that care are town and people that don't care are scum nobody would play mafia since it would be pointlessly easy. Koshi is a townread because he isn't even trying to look town yet I get flak for simply bullshitting with other players that are also bullshitting? Contradiction #2
3. I'm being active without any obligation. I could easily just lurk like half of this game right now but I'm not. Seems to make austin a town read but not me...Hm. Contradiction #3
I could do more but I think that is sufficient. If you need help from your scum team on not making easy posts to debunk then ask them in the QT. if you are town then stop bothering me. Null.On October 05 2013 03:06 VayneAuthority wrote:
all I know about CR is that he has never rolled scum here before and Coag said he plays scum well on the other site they play together. I don't find him townie at all really but I guess im alone. more on that before night ends.
In short, it seems like he is using me as leverage for the lynch tomorrow, so that he has an excuse to already vote me tomorrow without doing much of anything again. Not townie.On October 06 2013 01:54 VayneAuthority wrote:
if anything im going to be pressure voting CR tomorrow. fuck this lurking shit when i dont know anything about the guy Pressure vote, no clear read.On October 08 2013 12:07 VayneAuthority wrote:
I don't really care at this point if he's scum or not, just bored with these mega lurkers that make the game impossible if they are alive at endgame, which could happen On October 08 2013 12:14 VayneAuthority wrote:
assuming im wrong about one of pandain/austin he would be my filler choice. Still not sure on the 3rd really ever since oats got confirmed. No idea who the last banger is. Cheesecake? bad. I dont know man. Don't care/he's scum if other reads are wrong.
He doesn't get a read on CR for CR's early attack on VA. He never really bothers to address CR at all, despite CR somewhat attacking VA in thread and despite CR being a legitimate topic of discussion at times. Even the posts that read like he DOES have thoughts on CR, they're never really explicit. "I don't find him townie at all" without explanation, "I don't really care", "He's my filler scum if I'm wrong on x or y." There's never a reason he's scum, or a reason he's not scum. Sort of halfway mentioning CR while never actually addressing him reads as scummy to me.
Overall, he stays where he is for me, scummier than WoS but townier than cc.
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You shoulda ordered a hot dog, WoS. Woulda made this whole thing easier.
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On October 12 2013 04:05 VayneAuthority wrote:
in what universe is calling grack/pandain/palmar scum not going anywhere with the BH kill? On September 30 2013 07:37 VayneAuthority wrote:
So I have no idea why anyone shot BH or what this means. The only people that trusted him even remotely were pandain, grack, and palmar. Everybody else tried to throw suspicion on him or said he was scummy. He died though so we know it wasn't a cop kill. Sooo wtf is going on here.
Palmar/Pandain probably come off looking the worst from this since palmar gave him a town read and visa versa and pandain is trying to lynch FT through his dead body. Grack has some sort of boner for BH where he looks up to him so that is a potential fear kill.
No need to reply to this post, I won't read it You explicitly state you don't know what it means. You say 2/3 of those probably come off looking the worst, but not that they do. You say BH is maybe a potential "fear kill" for grackaroni.
You're straight up saying you don't know what to make of things and you DON'T explicitly call them scum. Not when you're initially poking around.
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On October 12 2013 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2013 03:06 VayneAuthority wrote:
all I know about CR is that he has never rolled scum here before and Coag said he plays scum well on the other site they play together. I don't find him townie at all really but I guess im alone. more on that before night ends.
In short, it seems like he is using me as leverage for the lynch tomorrow, so that he has an excuse to already vote me tomorrow without doing much of anything again. I actually find this very townie post. That thing with Coag <--> CR is from Noir and i remember it aswell. I think it was not worthless to point out. Pointing it out cool, pointing out things --> getting reads on people cool.
But IF he has a read here, it's slightly murky as "don't find him townie", not committing to finding him scummy. And the read never continues, it doesn't progress, it's never commented on, etc.
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On October 12 2013 04:12 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 00:46 VayneAuthority wrote:
after reading all filters those are the 3 that were most likely to dispose of BH austin just refuses to stop lying all game, im lynching him first. You have a quote that says you don't know what to make of it. You have a quote that these three are the most likely to dispose of him. They either conflict OR you think those three are the most likely to dispose of him but don't actually know what to do with that thought.
And there's no attempt to go "these are the people most likely to dispose of him, which one is the MOST likely." If you come to a conclusion, your conclusion is "These are the people that might have wanted to kill BH and they're all scum." To me, that's a part of the progression of you thinking about the NK, but not the end. Throwing out the names without digging to see if you like one in particular, or think that these 2 might be on the same team because of x, and therefore BH was probably killed by that team, etc. etc. You pause at "here are some dudes."
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EPT
