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On September 19 2013 00:40 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 00:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 19 2013 00:27 Grackaroni wrote:On September 19 2013 00:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 18 2013 23:58 Grackaroni wrote:On September 18 2013 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 18 2013 23:50 Grackaroni wrote:On September 18 2013 23:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 18 2013 23:36 Grackaroni wrote:On September 18 2013 23:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Grackaroni actually after re-examining the end of D1 your vote-switch is fucking suspicious. You have your vote on scum. Then you sheep Pandain (your former scumread) to someone else because "he made some good posts and you think he is town". Because he had valid points and confidently expressed them. The manner in which Oats/WoS/Umasi planted their votes on BH at the time and then disappeared when nobody was pushing hard for his lynch with a well-written case made me think it was more likely that some players in that group were scum just pawning off their vote and that it was not a scum lynch. First of all it was me/Umasi/WoS who voted for OP at thet time. Oats had voted earlier, and gave reasons for his vote, the reasons were good. You also did agree with me earlier on when i talked about OP! What you just said is simply not true. ...as for OP, most of my reasoning is coming from Rayn but I did say before my dislike of OP's posting and added in my own points. Then there is this: On September 14 2013 06:51 Grackaroni wrote:
I'm voting Zealous. Pandain is town and he has good points. What exactly were those good points Pandain brought up? you voting for OP wasn't a suspicious vote because you had already started the case on him earlier in your filter. Oats kind of pushed him earlier but not nearly enough to convince others to vote for him. The big post Pandain made about the votes falling in on OP too easily and the lack of people vocally defending OP. And you bought that at face value given that: 1) You were suspicious of Pandain 2) Pandain was right there defending OP 3) At early on in the game when i voted for OP and gave my reasoning (which was in fact exactly what made people vote for him in the end) there were a lot of people arguing against OP being scum. Makes sense how? 1 and 2) Scum basically never come out like this and start hard defending a teammate this vocally. They think it will make them appear too scummy. 3) I don't remember anyone arguing that they thought Op wasn't scum except Koshi. Okay this is the chain of events in chronological order: You change your vote on OP and give a reasoning for it. Oats makes a case on OP and votes for him. Then me/Umasi/WoS vote for OP. You have a scumread on SnB and Pandain. SnB starts a wagon on Zealos. Pandain joins the Zealos wagon and says "there is no resistance to OP lynch". What do you do after that? You agree with you scumread on a wagon that's been pushed by your other scumread! for what, "because there is no resistance on the dude's lynch i think is scum, besides the other two dudes i think are scum". What do you need, do your town reads need to oppose a scumlynch for you to think the lynch is in fact on scum? Your voting behavior on D1 makes absolutely zero sense. I even indicated earlier that Zealos was scummy and that I was going to consider switching on to him. Pandain's post and the easy flow of unexpected vote were enough to make me uncomfortable with the lynch and prompted me to switch. What doesn't make sense? It doesn't make sense that you have three scumreads. OP, Pandain, SnB. You switch from your scumread to another person who is pushed by both of your other scumreads, while the wagon you were on has zero scumreads of yours.. The reasoning is "noone is agruing against OP lynch". :p ugh, It's so obvious that I wasn't suspicious of Pandain anymore because of the posts he was making when I switched on to Zealos. I'm pretty sure I even directly wrote that guy is town. i think even you agreed that Pandain was likely town from those posts pushing people off of the BH wagon.
lol no, i thought he was town because of how he argued with me on SnB. I think he looks terribad from his voteswitch and his reads change on N1.
You say you were not suspicious of Pandain any more. I asked your reasoning. You pointed out the post where he pushed out people from voting for OP. I dunno how you can drop your scumread on him based on him defending BH. Your scumread is defending your scumread, he gets a town read from you based on that. What gives?
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On September 19 2013 00:42 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 00:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 19 2013 00:38 Pandain wrote:On September 19 2013 00:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 19 2013 00:29 Pandain wrote:
Actually your right, if Vayne was role blocked he couldn't have shot. Doesn't change the fact that Zealos is still the best lynch.
Don't understand how you can defend someone who's play so drastically differs from his town play in previous games. Zealos isn't a town lurker, or at least a town non contributing person. He's a mafia one, etc mtg mafia.
Why would you go off worse reads when blue roles will provide us more info later on Zealos might be SK but i want to lynch scum now because it gives us better connections to the last scum. Zealos is not mafia because of D1 votes. If you think Zealos is sk then lynch him to lower kp. He also can clearly be mafia to day one votes and you ignore context otherwise. Okay so Zealos is mafia and Blazinghand last minute switches to lynch a scumbuddy instead of lynching town!blubbers? Bullshiiiiitttt.. It's not certain though it might point to him then being SK. I have devoted already too much of my time to this, if you can't see regardless ignoring meta hat Zealos is the best lynch the. I don't have time to convince you.
I am not going to vote for Zealos. You need to convince others.
What do you think about what i wrote on Grackaroni?
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On September 19 2013 00:48 Oatsmaster wrote:
this game just got really stupid.
Elaborate please.
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On September 19 2013 00:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
Pandain is pushing town. Rayn and others are pushing town.
Whats going on Rayn? Why not kill VA?
Because there is a bigger chance of Grackaroni being scum.
Do you usually give town reads to people because they are your scumread and defend your scumread?
Then you go on and vote with them on a case that's pushed by another scumread of yours?
And your reasoning for all that is "nobody was defending the original wagon"....
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On September 19 2013 01:03 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 00:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 19 2013 00:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
Pandain is pushing town. Rayn and others are pushing town.
Whats going on Rayn? Why not kill VA? Because there is a bigger chance of Grackaroni being scum. Do you usually give town reads to people because they are your scumread and defend your scumread? Then you go on and vote with them on a case that's pushed by another scumread of yours? And your reasoning for all that is "nobody was defending the original wagon".... town do do that. Also scum fakeclaims vet for what reason exactly? To draw out the real vet?
no, town don't do that.
yes, or to draw out SK. Lynching SK gives them town credit.
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Seriously, look at the last moments on D1:
From this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=427569¤tpage=58
Pandain: "lynch kush, lynch kush, rayn why wouldn't you vote for your townread! OP is town! SnB lynch kush. OH shit, kush is not happening, lynch Zealos, lynch Zealos, one more vote to Zealos! ##vote: blubbers"
Grackaroni: "Lynch OP, i still think he is scum. Oh shit, Pandain is town! He's making good posts and SnB is pushing Zealos (lol, at this point Pandain was advocating kush lynch)! SnB is my scumread, but WTF! Let's lynch Zealos! ##vote: zealos"
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On September 19 2013 01:12 Sn0_Man wrote:
Hows claiming vet draw out the SK?
If it did somehow do that, please enlighten me so that we can lynch him.
I talked about this already.
Scum hit does not go through on N1. They know who they hit. Scum fakeclaims vet. Koshi's response was obviously a blue (vet) claim.
1) Scum hit Koshi - Koshi is vet, no need to roleblock him on N2, just kill him dead.
2) Scum hit other then Koshi - Koshi is still a vet, roleblock and kill him on N2. The person scum hit is either SK or was docced (50%).
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On September 19 2013 01:16 Sn0_Man wrote:
If they were both scum they'd buddy up on zealos or blubb and mr OP wouldn't have to show himself by voting.
I just about flamed you but then I didn't wanna get modkilled.
Its fairly clear that at least 1 scum was AFK @deadline
Maybe BH was afk as they did pile up on Zealos. Pandain switched at the last second.
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On September 19 2013 01:20 Sn0_Man wrote:
Oh. nvm gotcha.
Still, Grack/Pandain scumteam isn't possible as mentioned.
I am not really sure i understand you. Why is that not possible?
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On September 19 2013 01:22 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 01:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 19 2013 01:12 Sn0_Man wrote:
Hows claiming vet draw out the SK?
If it did somehow do that, please enlighten me so that we can lynch him. I talked about this already. Scum hit does not go through on N1. They know who they hit. Scum fakeclaims vet. Koshi's response was obviously a blue (vet) claim. 1) Scum hit Koshi - Koshi is vet, no need to roleblock him on N2, just kill him dead. 2) Scum hit other then Koshi - Koshi is still a vet, roleblock and kill him on N2. The person scum hit is either SK or was docced (50%). haha ok I'm not really going to even bother debating with you at this point. If you think I'm scum and I fake claimed in order to pull off this intricate play and catch the SK then I don't know what to tell you. I would never do that lol, I just wanted to get night killed... Also you do realize the person I'm pointing to being the SK is you lol. So I guess that hypothetical makes you the SK.
You saying i am SK does not make me SK. That's dumb argument.
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Grackaroni you fakeclaimed in order to get killed during the night. Then you retract from the claim before the night.. Right..
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On September 19 2013 01:26 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 01:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 19 2013 01:20 Sn0_Man wrote:
Oh. nvm gotcha.
Still, Grack/Pandain scumteam isn't possible as mentioned. I am not really sure i understand you. Why is that not possible? Because Grack and Pandain could have just decided on either zealos or blubb and forced the lynch through without OP revealing himself by voting zealos. Only one of the people who were around at lynch can reasonably be scum (apart from OP) because if both were around there is no situation where OP has to reveal himself. Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 01:22 VayneAuthority wrote:
as an aside, I think everyone has posted by now so town doesn't have a roleblocker unless they just don't wanna out themselves, but that would be fucking dumb right now when we're so close to solving this.
this means roleblocker in this game is scum and they wanted to see if I was SK. anyone remember who was saying I was SK? I was saying it 
No they couldn't. Because Pandain did not have blubbers as scum. Grackaroni has already switched from blubbers to OP (meaning OP is better lynch than blubbers for him).
Votes are 6 on OP, 4 on blubbers.
If BH is afk, and both of Pandain & Grack switch on blubbers, that will be the most obvious scum vote switch ever. Pandain has never had blubbers as scum, he has been advocating kush lynch. Grack has just switched to OP (when there was no much support on that lynch) with reasoning "this is better than blubbers lynch", blubbers is even voting for OP himself. Notice that when Grack switches to Zealos, his reasoning is "Pandain looks town from his recent posting". But Pandain is still telling people to lynch kush, not Zealos. Smells like a strategy from scum QT.
Also notice that at this point the votes are Zealos 4, OP 4, blubbers 4. Assume BH is still afk. OP was the first one with 4 votes and therefore to set lynched if nothing changes. Another lynch candidates (blubbers - has his vote on Zealos, Zealos - has his vote on kushmasta) might swap, at least Zealos. If Zealos switches to OP that's it, and Pandain looks fucking bad. What will blubbers do, will he stay on Zealos? Well for sure he won't vote for himself.
I do not think it's far fetched at all. In case OP comes in (or is not in fact afk) and votes for Zealos, what happens. "yo guys, we just lynched town with last minute wagon with all the fucking scum in it!". Looks good right?
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EBWOP: Neither of Pandain / Grack could have possibly justfy their vote switch in case they switched to blubbers.
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On September 19 2013 01:46 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean, pandain DID last second swap to blubbers
If BlazingHand is assumed to be afk he HAS to do that, because otherwise BH get's lynched!!
Zealos will not get lynched if he comes back, because he has his vote on kush. He's gonna vote for blubbers/OP to save himself. He never switched, and to me that proves he is town.
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On September 19 2013 01:50 Sn0_Man wrote:
I know zealos is town...
And I want to lynch pandain
But grack aint his scumbuddy.
Okay let's make this easy. These are the people who opposed the OP wagon (i don't mean didn't vote for him - but switched off of were against it):
blubbdavid, Koshi, SnB, Pandain, Grackaroni.
We know the three first of them are town by flips.
OP did not do anything to defend himself. Him not defending himself makes it likely for him to be afk. Do you think only one scum defended him? Only one scum defends him, and goes "fingers crossed, let's hope at least 5 townies make a stupid decision". I don't see that likely.
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Grackaroni, do you think there was zero influence by scum in D1 mislynch? Do you think a lot of townies just fucked up majorly? Scum Godfather is going to get lynched, do you think scum just sat on their asses, did nothing and hoped for townies to fuck up?
Do you want to lynch Pandain?
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On September 19 2013 01:57 Sn0_Man wrote:
I was against the OP wagon. So was Dibbers I believe as well as vayne.
Yeah but;
Vayne was afk. debears did nothing to draw votes off the wagon, neither did you.
The three of you voted for people and held on to it. You did not go crazy over vote shenanigans last second while you were there (i mean you were, vayne was not, debears idk).
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On September 19 2013 02:03 Sn0_Man wrote:The issue at hand is that the only thing i'm decently sure of is that pandain is scum. However, I don't want to lynch scum I want to lynch SK. But all my town reads could actually be SK, I'm just calling them town because I have deduced that they aren't scum. 
The problem is if we do not lynch scum/SK we probably lose. SK is much harder to find than scum because they can genuinely scumhunt.
On September 19 2013 02:02 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 01:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Grackaroni, do you think there was zero influence by scum in D1 mislynch? Do you think a lot of townies just fucked up majorly? Scum Godfather is going to get lynched, do you think scum just sat on their asses, did nothing and hoped for townies to fuck up?
Do you want to lynch Pandain? there probably was scum influence involved in the lynch. Not sure if I want to lynch Pandain right now, I don't know why he made that switch from Zealos to Blubbers if Zealos is not scum as well. And Zealos voting kush actually doesn't make sense if Zealos was scum.
Well who is the scum influence to the lynch?
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On September 19 2013 02:07 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 02:03 Grackaroni wrote:
Scum cannot be afk for deadlines? I didn't know this was a rule. This. Rayn is convinced that the shenannies that happened were by scum but that simply isn't true. If all the scum were around the shenannies wouldn't involve OP since his buddies could fix everything. I'm willing to believe pandain was scum (or maybe u grack but dubious) but not both. No chance. Scumbuddy actually looks like dibbers/vayne. Grack/Vayne scumteam isn't impossible, and fits with the vet-claim then RB wifom but I'm not very convinced of that. And realistically thats almost the only way vayne is scum
That's why i want to lynch Grackaroni over Pandain.
It is possible that Pandain just had a really strong town read on OP (which makes no sense to me). Also the fact that BH voted for blubbers and not for Zealos is a bit contradicting towards Pandain being scum with BH unless BH was in fact afk before the last second.
I refuse to believe both of Pandain/Grack are not scum, and i think Grack has far better chances of flipping scum than Pandain.
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EBWOP: Also the fact that BH voted for Zealos and not for blubbers is a bit contradicting towards Pandain being scum with BH unless BH was in fact afk before the last second.
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EPT
