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Desert Mini Mafia - Page 38

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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
September 12 2013 22:26 GMT
#2939
On September 13 2013 07:16 Clarity_nl wrote:
I never said you ruined the game. I'm just saying fakeclaims should be used sparingly.
I'm saying you disrupted town flow and although I can't prove that it made things worse for town, it probably did.
Just my opinion.

Yeah i understand you, but look it at my perspective (the D2 start):
- I am a veteran
- Doctor / his target does not get a notification of being hit
- Someone breadcrumbs veteran
- Someone claims being hit, roleblocked, and veteran

What do i think?
"No fucking way that guy is a vet. I AM THE VET! There is 1% possibility of 2 vets for town".
I admit i should have thought about it.
"Hmm.. What does that mean? Is he scum or what the hell? Is he fakeclaiming if doc's target was hit? wtf is going on?"
I didn't. I just assumed "no fucking way debears is a vet, he is fakeclaiming, easy fakeclaim for scum, the dude is scum! I cc him, even if he is not scum mafia thinks there is a SK"

Bad decision, but can you see why i did what i did? I had my reasons. And the outcome could have been worse. What if i get hit on N2? I claim vet. rofl, me or debears gets lynched. Whoever gets lynched the other one gets lynched the next day because of lying. ^_^
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
September 12 2013 22:58 GMT
#2942
bleh.. why do i even try to explain anything when people are not even reading..
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
September 12 2013 23:31 GMT
#2945
On September 13 2013 08:04 Clarity_nl wrote:
Here's the thing. In each case the fakeclaim wasn't really necessary and was very reckless. If Oats was scum (and don't tell me you were 100% sure) you would've lost the game for town.
If you can't convince town to not lynch oats, a fakeclaim will delay it for a cycle but he'll likely get lynched anyway and you will be under more scrutiny as well. As for the vet claim, you could have simply claimed vet, rather than claiming to have been shot.

The sk claim was fine although not really believable, worth a shot.

Could you explain to me better.
How is it worse for me to save Oats (true, i did not know he was 100% town - but i was pretty damn sure) over a lurker lynch? A lurker lynch is most likely to be town anyways (because scum can easily take a town!lurker and push it to them - even if there was a scum!lurker). Why does that most likely lose the game for the town if Oats is scum (which was not the case - i would NEVER fakeclaim to save anyone who i don't have a 99%+ read on)? If Oats started playing so that other people could see he was town - HELL HE COULD HAVE CLAIMED COP ON D2 AS HE WAS A FUCKING COP - why would he get lynched on D2? It's not like "rayn's fakeclaim got Oats lynched on D2".

Why is claiming only vet better than claiming vet + shot?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-12 23:45:16
September 12 2013 23:45 GMT
#2947
On September 13 2013 08:34 Dandel Ion wrote:
Clarity is a doo-doo

claiming vet with BP up is colossal amounts of stupid

If you want to give constructive critisism could you even look at the situation and my pov?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
September 13 2013 00:56 GMT
#2954
On September 13 2013 09:45 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Rayn

Regarding fakeclaims (since that seems to be the discussion topic)... they're not good.

I understand the individual short-term objectives behind each of your claims (saving Oats, etc), but that analysis fails to take into account the much more important long-term ramifications of your actions. The main one being your in-game perception.

Towns often want to sheep level-headed town leaders, who they perceive as both in-control and objective. When you start fake-claiming at the drop of a hat, you come across as emotional and spazztic. It's no coincidence that people weren't listening to you in the early game - because your play in the early game (exacerbated by the fake claims) didn't project a "town leader" persona. It destroyed a lot of the credibility you had in the thread, which is a shame because you're a damn good player when you keep your emotions in check.

In regards to the individual claims themselves, I think the justifications behind them begin to break down when you start to analyze more of these long-term ramifications:

Show nested quote +
On September 13 2013 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Here is it:

My mason claim:
- To keep Oats, obvious townie alive. Definitely helped town, would have helped more if Oats was not a retard and would have realized he should go with the plan. Mafia could have shot me (because scum don't want confirmed town alive). Even if i was scum Oats should have gone with it, because if he get's shot that will point fingers on me as he'll flip non-mason.


Yes you saved Oats, however the claim was so sudden and confusing that it pushed the town to lynch a random lurker (FirmTofu) and removed a lot of potential vote controversy and information. The claim was one of the huge factors in destroying the possibility of a productive Day 1 lynch.

Furthermore, Oats ended up getting lynched anyway the next day. Your claim only temporarily saved Oats and created a ton of confusion (bad) in the process.

Show nested quote +
My getting shot claim:
There was a possibility scum hit doc's target and debears was making a big play. I could not believe he was a vet as i was (and i was correct lol). Bad decision, but whatevs. Me claiming to be shot lead me after marv on D2-D3 start. HE was very eager in knowing what happened with the shots N1 and N2. Scum tend to want to know if there really is SK or not. Town doesn't care so much, they need to kill any anti-town.


This wasn't too terribly bad on a macro level, however it was still a huge mistake. Firstly, claiming veteran is a really bad idea in general, even when you get shot. You basically tell scum exactly what happened with their KP, which they wouldn't know otherwise.

Also, your claim actually created an information advantage for the scum here. Scum knew they had 1KP. Town (and myself) ran around for a while trying to figure out where a 2nd KP came from that never existed. It's small (and was ultimately inconsequential), but creating information advantages for scum is generally a really bad idea.

Show nested quote +
My SK claim last night:
I tried to fake i am SK so that Onegu would think he loses unless he shoots me. :D


This was OK.


I can see your point on Mason claim. I discussed with this with marv already, and as i told him i had a point, not only to claim.

The real point (besides the "no fuck you are not lynching town!Oats") was Oats to go with the claim, and get me shot on N1 (as i was vet, why not shoot "confirmed townies" as scum). Oats however did not go with it, i dunno why. :/
Yeah, i see the point, it was probably bad.

Actually me claiming i was shot did not create an info adv to scum imo. Tell me if you disagree here:
- I claimed AFTER debears (scum already know what happened).
- When i claimed (i am not scum), scum go, "wtf?? 2 KP? vigi? SK?"
- I had reasons to believe debears is not a real vet (as i was, 2 vets lol?)
- I wanted to know if he was scum fakeclaiming or something else (we would find out that later)

What did that do; Most people didn't believe my claim, except scum. :D
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
September 13 2013 01:03 GMT
#2957
Okay really, i am unable to explain myself. I see how fucking terrible my last post looks like. I have a game to play, i am learnign. Thanks for your input, especially people who said more than "you are fucking terrible, go home" :D
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
September 13 2013 01:04 GMT
#2958
I mean, especially Hapa & marv. <3
gg, Hapa listen to me earlier next time. I need to listen to you too^^
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
November 07 2013 17:38 GMT
#2980
rofl..
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