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On September 01 2013 14:11 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2013 14:08 Oatsmaster wrote:geript town guys. Not voterigger, some role that switches all the votes on you to another target. lol BH again victim of the lynch  Which totally explains why my vote on SHiaoPi was moved. Thanks for your contributions as always Oats.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 01 2013 08:38 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2013 08:37 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm not saying you have to think I'm not scum-- I'm just saying, don't oppose AG's plan because you think I'm scum. Instead, explain to him whatever risks you think you percieve that he does not. Don't just say "I don't want the plan to happen" because you can't really stop me from following the plan. You can stop AG from using his power, but you have to explain why you, with your somewhat more limited knowledge of his role than what he has, think it's risky. Then, he'll take that info you've given it and combine it with his private knowledge of what his role does and comes to a decision. If that decision is different than what you'd expect, he probably just knows more about how his role works than the rest of us do, and we have to respect that decision. I am fine with AG's plan for the record. I am just worried about your confidence in going along with it.
So was there a good reason you had your vote on Shioapi right at the end of the day?
When it was already clear you had expressed your preference to Lynch Shiaopi but it was never going to happen?
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On September 01 2013 14:57 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2013 14:56 AxleGreaser wrote:On September 01 2013 14:11 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 01 2013 14:08 Oatsmaster wrote:geript town guys. Not voterigger, some role that switches all the votes on you to another target. lol BH again victim of the lynch Which totally explains why my vote on SHiaoPi was moved. Thanks for your contributions as always Oats. + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2013 08:38 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2013 08:37 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm not saying you have to think I'm not scum-- I'm just saying, don't oppose AG's plan because you think I'm scum. Instead, explain to him whatever risks you think you percieve that he does not. Don't just say "I don't want the plan to happen" because you can't really stop me from following the plan. You can stop AG from using his power, but you have to explain why you, with your somewhat more limited knowledge of his role than what he has, think it's risky. Then, he'll take that info you've given it and combine it with his private knowledge of what his role does and comes to a decision. If that decision is different than what you'd expect, he probably just knows more about how his role works than the rest of us do, and we have to respect that decision. I am fine with AG's plan for the record. I am just worried about your confidence in going along with it. So was there a good reason you had your vote on Shioapi right at the end of the day? When it was already clear you had expressed your preference to Lynch Shiaopi but it was never going to happen? Not explaining it again. Read my filter.
I have.
Originally here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19646000
you said
On September 01 2013 07:27 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2013 07:22 AxleGreaser wrote:On September 01 2013 07:04 WaveofShadow wrote:
I don't think I will be changing my vote so you may have to rely on others.
Is there any reason you want your vote parked somewhere like Shiaopi? Already explained it; first of all I think he's scum but since my vote doesn't matter, meh. I don't want to vote for Geript because while I believe he may be telling the truth, I don't trust the way this setup works and I do not want to allow other people to perform actions on me when I have control over someone's ability to do so.
you said this subsequently
On September 01 2013 08:38 WaveofShadow wrote:
I am fine with AG's plan for the record. I am just worried about your confidence in going along with it.
and in my filter I explained that my plan was fine even if some of the three were scum
yet still even though you "I am fine with AG's plan" you cant swap your vote onto the geript wagon to enable my plan to work? even though I say the thing you are concerned about (BH's confidence in going along with it) is fine.
Playing as town is hard... you have to cooperate with people you only probably think are townies...(in this case me and my plan) its the effort to try and do that I am not seeing. That part of playing as town is also hard to fake as scum.
So yes even though you have explained that in your filter... I could do with you clarifying why some more.
(people reading this exchange ought remember that in my own statistical opinion i tunnel WOS like trojan. So form your own opinions please. Also note I tunnel him in games I am not playing just reading...)
@thread
What I am looking for when analysing what happened when i tried make my plan go down is who acted like a townie would. As the situation (me wanting specific 3 votes was unusual as mentioned earlier in my filter scummers were trying to fake stuff they had never done as townie... aka work out how suspicious as a towny they ought be of my weird arse sounding plan.)
yes its thin, so is trying to read what happened from the votes on someone that never flipped (geript) when he then redirected the lynch onto someone that hadn't even be a contender.
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On September 01 2013 15:02 Oatsmaster wrote:
right ok.
Huh. So I guess we are gonna waste 2 days..
Game with Voterigger is lame GreyMist.
I could argue we might wind up wasting 5 so which 2 days are you referring too?
(game or real days BTW)
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On September 01 2013 08:20 HiroPro wrote:^ what he said.
So what was your reason?
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On September 01 2013 15:51 Oatsmaster wrote:
we are gonna waste day 2 because we lynch geript.
I would have thought someone would try the other option.
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He is also getting to AFK proportions tonight
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EBWOP
On September 02 2013 01:52 AxleGreaser wrote:
He(Geript) is also getting to AFK proportions tonight
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On September 02 2013 01:25 Oatsmaster wrote:
nononono
Geript is playing like a caught scum.
Why else kill the strongest townie in the game?
but OATS he did kill you?
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On September 02 2013 01:54 MrZentor wrote:
I'm extremely suspicious of the following people: Oatsmaster, Dandel Ion, Mr. Cheesecake, Clarity_nl, Koshi, raynpelikoneet, VayneAuthority and their shady attempt to save geript.
We should definitely lynch one of them if a vigilante manages to kill geript.
Tomorrow Id like to hear reasons for those.
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On September 02 2013 02:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Voting for Felkyr was suspicious exactly why?
because seemingly MrZentor knows what geript will flip? and even what Felkyr will flip.
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On September 02 2013 05:22 Dandel Ion wrote:
i explained it better
You left one out
On September 01 2013 04:59 geript wrote:
Ok guys so here's the lowdown of what's happening. BH is getting lynched whether you like it or not. I didn't like how he came in to 'defend' me and Cora. He absolutely loves, as scum, to defend town based on random bullshit meta stuff. Normally, he'd either push me harder to try and get me to show my agenda and alignment while pushing his own preference on Ceph. I don't like Ceph much either and strongly considered lynching him instead, but BH just keeps on giving me the heeby-jeebies. I've had my play planned out from the start of when I read the role and we get a freebie scum lynch whether or not you like my play. So you might as well start discussing the second person you want to lynch because I'm going to keep on pulling shennanies until the fate hits the limit where I turn off.
he claimed scum? Huh?
If geript is town how is him redirecting the lynch after derailing the thread all day by intentionally playing to his scum meta actually a free lynch for his faction(in this unlikely scenario town)
If geript is scum how is him redirecting the lynch a free lynch? I try never to believe anything a scum says but after he flips i strongly suggest people read what he said again. When i read his filter during the day trying to decide his faction it was largely so WTF that I couldnt. I suspect it may make more sense when read with no doubt in your mind. in particular if he flips scum makes sure any disinformation he managed to insert + Show Spoiler +(such as he is certainly the vote rigger)(not if hes scum...then he only might be the vote rigger he might be something else.)
This one worries me too.
Geript: I'm going to keep on pulling shennanies until the fate hits the limit where I turn off...
Q. Even if geript is scum who rigged the Lynch? and how many times might they be able to do that. I posit once? but hey this is GM game so I have no fing idea.
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On September 02 2013 05:55 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 05:46 kitaman27 wrote:
I'm more interested why Zentor waited until night one to start posting. Unavailability? Usually, the amount I post first day is directly proportional to the probability of me getting lynched.
Day 2:
##vote MrZentor
Might i suggest you start posting D2?
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On September 02 2013 09:44 MrZentor wrote:I posted before you on D2, bro. + Show Spoiler +Instead of Stealing, Always Attack Cautiously.
Coool now post stuff where you think about the game so other people can discern your alignment.
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On September 02 2013 09:36 MrZentor wrote:
I'm surprised nobody managed to kill geript.
Meh.
For instance write a significantly larger number of words about why you were surprised.
What you thought might happen but did not.
You could then try and provide any thoughts you derive from that that might be helpful to town.
Such as what it implies for what town should do.
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On September 02 2013 10:01 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 09:59 Clarity_nl wrote:On September 02 2013 09:53 MrZentor wrote:On September 02 2013 04:27 Clarity_nl wrote:On September 02 2013 03:21 MrZentor wrote:
The point of it is to tell everybody that if geript flips scum, we need to lynch somebody in that list.
That's all. The way you decide to do this is to write out all 7 names and call all seven "extremely suspicious". Instead of just saying "if geript flips red we should look at the people who vote felkyr" On September 02 2013 02:33 MrZentor wrote:On September 02 2013 02:20 strongandbig wrote:On September 02 2013 01:54 MrZentor wrote:
I'm extremely suspicious of the following people: Oatsmaster, Dandel Ion, Mr. Cheesecake, Clarity_nl, Koshi, raynpelikoneet, VayneAuthority and their shady attempt to save geript.
We should definitely lynch one of them if a vigilante manages to kill geript. What about me and my completely open attempt to persuade people not to vote geript? Did you read the thread or just the votes? Why would scum try to "save" geript if they knew the votes didnt matter anyway? And isn't trying to "save" geript only scummy if he flips scum? Or do you already know that he will? Yes, obviously there are people who tried to saved geript and didn't vote for felkyr, but they clearly weren't doing their best to save him and therefore not as likely to be scum . So he could wait to use his ability for when it would be much more useful? I should have been clear that I'm assuming geript flips scum. I think it's likely given the circumstances. It's also why I said the some of the people were "extremely suspicious" instead of saying that there were definitely scum in the list. Alright, let's just buy this explanation that you didn't scumslip and you were simply talking about a scenario where geript flips scum. How is trying to push a wagon that is not geript fine, but if it is felkyr it is extremely suspicious. stronganbig has it right. It seems like you haven't even read the game and you just went off the votecount to paint a wide array of people scummy. Not only did you backtrack from 100% certain geript will flip scum to "I dunno what he'll flip but if he flips scum blabla" But then there's this: On September 02 2013 02:47 MrZentor wrote:On September 02 2013 02:20 Clarity_nl wrote:
How the fuck can you be extremely suspicious of 7 people for doing the exact same thing.
Can you narrow down the list, maybe? Because you didn't actually... do anything. I'm purposely not narrowing down the list until geript flips scum, because if he ends up not flipping scum, all the time spent narrowing down the list would be wasted. (Obviously at least half of the people on the list are almost certainly town) This is some class A bullshit. You just explained why you don't wanna waste a bunch of time narrowing down the list, and then you immediately follow it by saying Obviously at least half of the people on the list are almost certainly town. If it is obvious, why would you have to spend ANY amount of time on it? If it is obvious, why do you call EVERYONE on that list suspicious?? I try to make him clarify: On September 02 2013 03:06 MrZentor wrote:On September 02 2013 02:51 Clarity_nl wrote:
If at obviously least half the people on that list are town why are do you even list them or "mark" them as suspicious. Have you not decided which half yet?????? You're kidding, right? Everybody knows which half it is. Zentor is saying everybody knows which of the people on that list are likely town. Then WHY DID YOU CALL EVERYONE ON THAT LIST EXTREMELY SUSPICIOUS. Zentor cannot keep his story straight, which means he's not actually thinking about the game. His posts (especially this votecount analysis without context) are designed to make it look like he's thinking about the game. Therefore Zentor is scum. Clarity, do you still think I scumslipped and gave away that both I geript are scum? I'm no confident anymore that it is a scumslip. But notice how I brush past it in my case too. I guess it's possible for you to say it like that as town, although it feels off. Everything else makes you scum though. You should put some reads in the thread now I mean, I responded to everything you said in your case and show you why it's all townie, but you haven't responded.
please remember how there is problem with people assuming that just because of the words used they assume the speaker is either certain or not certain someone else is scum.....
For the moment assume this.... I think you are town. I am worried other people don't.
In order for me to get you to convince them you are town, I ask you one (or more questions)
Q. You were earlier analysing what happened with yesterdays votes and you did that to work out who was how likely to be scum.
Start with these assumptions (or others if you prefer)
Geript got a scum PM. Felkyr got a town PM. The scum for the duration of the day new they could redirect the lynch at days end.
Considering the following may be helpful too. (maybe not post about them but helpful consider)
Do remember that at some point in the day geript "claimed" he played to his scum meta (all day?) intentionally.
Do you (reading his filter) believe he did that (played purposeful to his scum meta all day)? or is there some point where he said oops and changed plans, or did he from the start get himself targeted to be lynched.
If he did that as a plan all day where and when do you think scum might have voted?
Do note thinking about his as a towny (who does not know who is and is not scum) is harder for scum to fake especially if you post lots of words about it.
I am town, I just checked my Pm again. If you check yours and you are town. Help me help you?
+ Show Spoiler +If you are scum.... wanna dance? paranoia is an old friend of mine. if you are town prudent trust is marvellous thing, and its hard to fake too.
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@oops, my bad. I didnt actually vote in the vote thread when i voted Mr Z earlier.
I have now fixed that by putting in a late vote, then imemdiately unvoting him to reach the correct current state
Too confusing? ignore this.
FYI: PlayersP:
Sorry this out of time synch with when i did it in the game thread
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19655497
which was just before Clarity. but it will show up in the tally as afetr as this is the actual vote thread.
##vote MrZentor
##unvote: MrZentor
See MrZ for the purposes of the previous post I now think your town... help me help you.
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On September 02 2013 11:33 MrZentor wrote:
I don't really think I need your help, Cephiro has already helped me a lot...
yeah and you can help me by doing what I asked, or not?
Do I know Cephiros alignment?
I am not stupid.
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On September 02 2013 12:16 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 12:06 Felkyr wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 02 2013 11:56 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 11:42 Felkyr wrote:
Did you already explain why you tried to dissuade AG from using his power? Please do so.
Yes, I already explained this. Read my filter. Show nested quote +
I also have made no attempt to offer an opinion on geript's alignment. I have thought about it, but everything I could think of has already been said one way or the other. It's complicated and I don't think I could figure it out at the moment. Cakepie might think the same. I find this a useless/weak reason to attack Cakepie. I do not like it.
You're a completely new player in a fairly ridiculous themed game and indicated day 1 that you wouldn't lynch geript. That's understandable. cakepie seems to at least have a moderate understanding of how to play and has played in more than 1 game, had access to coaches, and observed games beforehand. Would it be this? On September 01 2013 08:28 HiroPro wrote:On September 01 2013 08:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
Well I'd like to hear the reasons from each of them respectively Because Blazinghand is almost certainly mafia and viscera is very likely mafia also. His power is obviously not a negative effect as he's openly requesting people to vote for him and doesn't seem concerned about backlash. Giving them any benefit/power is just dumb. It's the only thing I found between a lot of rubble. It's already late and I'm sorry if there is anything else. I find this very weak... AG made very clear that he thought very deeply about the effect of his power. For me, this is a very bad reason to tell him not to use his power. Or you didn't read, or you didn't care. He may have thought it about, but Axlegreaser did not seem have the same opinion of BH/VE being very likely mafia that I did. Furthermore from the posts of his that I read he did seem to indicate that there would be some sort of small risk if there were multiple mafia there: Show nested quote +Why?Does that mean you dont trust them?(BTW I am happy if only two of the three are town) Show nested quote +"Thus unless you mistrust say 2 or more of them then I say (with more knowledge than you) that the plan is pro town and you should help me by allowing the max number of them to swap." Show nested quote +On September 01 2013 09:17 HiroPro wrote:
role!=alignment. The fact that he can rig votes doesn't tell you anything about his alignment, especially not in a game like this -_- You said this... I don't see anything else where YOU form an opinion of geript's alignment. What is your opinion? You have to be kidding, right? Read here: Show nested quote +On August 31 2013 07:44 HiroPro wrote:
I think geript has no idea what he's doing (yes I'm well aware that he's played a number of games). He's seen other people do nothing, antagonize other players in the games, yet not be lynched and thinks that he can do the same. The post where he claims "unlynchable" strikes me in the same vein - it's a joke post just designed to annoy. I don't see anything about his play that suggests specifically that he's mafia other than that he hasn't attempted to scumhunt in any manner (which can honestly be said about half the thread).
Show nested quote +And finally: On September 02 2013 06:49 HiroPro wrote:Father...Father oh where have you gone. All I have left are your teachings and readings. When all I really wanted was your tools. sniff, it's ok. I'M NOT YOU, I CAN BE MY OWN MAN. Legendary, Revolutionary, Insurgent, Suicidal, Scribe, I will avenge you! I have your masks, this game can still be brown! Long Live The New Brown State! ![[image loading]](http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1751/brownflag.png) I suppose you don't want to explain this to me? I'm new and don't know all this metagame stuff. There's no point in explaining. You wouldn't understand without having played in games with Chezinu.
So apart from... simply state
On September 01 2013 08:20 HiroPro wrote:^ what he said.
and when asked reply VE + BH scum.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 01 2013 08:28 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2013 08:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
Well I'd like to hear the reasons from each of them respectively Because Blazinghand is almost certainly mafia and viscera is very likely mafia also. His power is obviously not a negative effect as he's openly requesting people to vote for him and doesn't seem concerned about backlash. Giving them any benefit/power is just dumb.
Did you try to convince me they were scum and it would be better plan to use another 3.
Did you nominate another 3.
Did you try and find out how small the risk and whether in risk versus reward sense i claimed it was Ok?
Did you check if I 'didnt seem concerned' but had instead been deliberately as restrictive as I could in what I said?
Aka as you didnt know if backlash from two was problem did you find out for sure?
As it turns out you were likely wrong about both VE and Bh, did you try and find out why i thought different?
A towny question you could have asked yourself is was I right(you wrong) I wrong(you right) or scum?
Did you check out just how analytically I had exactly been in evaluating the entire tree of possibilities.
The way i tell the difference between scum and town is by the intentions behind the stuff they do do. and also
by the stuff they try and do and how well.
So very many towny things you could have tried to do given the mindset you claim to have had
Please show me you trying to do towny things today.
##vote: HiroPro
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My thoughts count
HiroPro(4) < CakePie, debears, Felkyr, Axle (seems popular)
Mr Z(1) < axle Clarity (you are in danger it is plurality)
Cakepie(1) < HiroPro. (OMGUS?)
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On September 02 2013 15:43 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 15:21 AxleGreaser wrote:On September 02 2013 12:16 HiroPro wrote:On September 02 2013 12:06 Felkyr wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 02 2013 11:56 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 11:42 Felkyr wrote:
Did you already explain why you tried to dissuade AG from using his power? Please do so.
Yes, I already explained this. Read my filter. Show nested quote +
I also have made no attempt to offer an opinion on geript's alignment. I have thought about it, but everything I could think of has already been said one way or the other. It's complicated and I don't think I could figure it out at the moment. Cakepie might think the same. I find this a useless/weak reason to attack Cakepie. I do not like it.
You're a completely new player in a fairly ridiculous themed game and indicated day 1 that you wouldn't lynch geript. That's understandable. cakepie seems to at least have a moderate understanding of how to play and has played in more than 1 game, had access to coaches, and observed games beforehand. Would it be this? On September 01 2013 08:28 HiroPro wrote:On September 01 2013 08:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
Well I'd like to hear the reasons from each of them respectively Because Blazinghand is almost certainly mafia and viscera is very likely mafia also. His power is obviously not a negative effect as he's openly requesting people to vote for him and doesn't seem concerned about backlash. Giving them any benefit/power is just dumb. It's the only thing I found between a lot of rubble. It's already late and I'm sorry if there is anything else. I find this very weak... AG made very clear that he thought very deeply about the effect of his power. For me, this is a very bad reason to tell him not to use his power. Or you didn't read, or you didn't care. He may have thought it about, but Axlegreaser did not seem have the same opinion of BH/VE being very likely mafia that I did. Furthermore from the posts of his that I read he did seem to indicate that there would be some sort of small risk if there were multiple mafia there: Why?Does that mean you dont trust them?(BTW I am happy if only two of the three are town) "Thus unless you mistrust say 2 or more of them then I say (with more knowledge than you) that the plan is pro town and you should help me by allowing the max number of them to swap." On September 01 2013 09:17 HiroPro wrote:
role!=alignment. The fact that he can rig votes doesn't tell you anything about his alignment, especially not in a game like this -_- You said this... I don't see anything else where YOU form an opinion of geript's alignment. What is your opinion? You have to be kidding, right? Read here: On August 31 2013 07:44 HiroPro wrote:
I think geript has no idea what he's doing (yes I'm well aware that he's played a number of games). He's seen other people do nothing, antagonize other players in the games, yet not be lynched and thinks that he can do the same. The post where he claims "unlynchable" strikes me in the same vein - it's a joke post just designed to annoy. I don't see anything about his play that suggests specifically that he's mafia other than that he hasn't attempted to scumhunt in any manner (which can honestly be said about half the thread).
And finally: On September 02 2013 06:49 HiroPro wrote:Father...Father oh where have you gone. All I have left are your teachings and readings. When all I really wanted was your tools. sniff, it's ok. I'M NOT YOU, I CAN BE MY OWN MAN. Legendary, Revolutionary, Insurgent, Suicidal, Scribe, I will avenge you! I have your masks, this game can still be brown! Long Live The New Brown State! I suppose you don't want to explain this to me? I'm new and don't know all this metagame stuff. There's no point in explaining. You wouldn't understand without having played in games with Chezinu. So apart from... simply state On September 01 2013 08:20 HiroPro wrote:On September 01 2013 08:14 Cephiro wrote:
Axle, don't use your power please. ^ what he said. and when asked reply VE + BH scum. + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2013 08:28 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2013 08:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
Well I'd like to hear the reasons from each of them respectively Because Blazinghand is almost certainly mafia and viscera is very likely mafia also. His power is obviously not a negative effect as he's openly requesting people to vote for him and doesn't seem concerned about backlash. Giving them any benefit/power is just dumb. Did you try to convince me they were scum and it would be better plan to use another 3. Did you nominate another 3. Did you try and find out how small the risk and whether in risk versus reward sense i claimed it was Ok? Did you check if I 'didnt seem concerned' but had instead been deliberately as restrictive as I could in what I said? Aka as you didnt know if backlash from two was problem did you find out for sure? As it turns out you were likely wrong about both VE and Bh, did you try and find out why i thought different? A towny question you could have asked yourself is was I right(you wrong) I wrong(you right) or scum? Did you check out just how analytically I had exactly been in evaluating the entire tree of possibilities. The way i tell the difference between scum and town is by the intentions behind the stuff they do do. and also by the stuff they try and do and how well. So very many towny things you could have tried to do given the mindset you claim to have had Please show me you trying to do towny things today. ##vote: HiroPro What's the motivation in me even bothering to ask you to hold your power as mafia? geript had said multiple times that votes weren't going to matter at all for the day. If I was mafia, I would know for certain that your power would just be wasted, so why would I tell you to not use your power if I was mafia?
I have multiple scummy reason a person might do that.... Which would be most likely would believe how much misinformation you had swallowed.
0/ You are mafia and stuffed (by not having towny motives see above) when given an unusual choice.
1/ Too look busy.
2/ cant work out how else to respond so you sheep someone...
3/ emotionally speaking .... As mafia there are other things you may not know. Mafia were suddenly left not having the D1 lynch go just how they planned.
4/ I promise I made up N different powers I might or might not have that would all mean i might have done what i did at that time. BTW one of them would be VT....
5/ That I wanted some of mafias best targets to vote for me... might well have meant town had some counter power...
What I don't see is you making towny effort as per above.
Please do towny stuff today.. aka now.
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EPT
