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On August 02 2013 13:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
I liked the minion flash. I started giggling today thinking about it and my wife was what and I was all "........"
lol
Sometimes I try to explain stuff like this to my wife (it's easier when I've set up earlier groundwork for something nerdy that I do, ie something that happened in mafia) and she'll just go "Ok, nerd stuff." but she pretends to be interested.
I love that about her.
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I got a new monitor so I should be able to see ganks coming now guys. Fo real, it's like a different game.
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Ill b on for the. games tonight. will b on my pc tho, so it may or may not be streamless for me. but ill manage.
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Hey guys in upper levels - I have a question for you. I'm under no illusion that I'm a good player. My CS is always horrible, my positioning isn't the best and there's room for improvement in virtually every aspect of my play.
However.
I feel like I should be in at least B3 or B2 based on a few factors, primarily my willingness and ability to work WITH my team. So my question is:
How can I be a team player when my teammates refuse to work as a team?
I've found after watching several of my replays that the game is never won because X fed Y or because the jungler couldn't keep up or because someone outfarmed someone else. Obviously these factors played a part in the losses, but the main factor in the teams I'm on losing is the fact that they never want to coordinate/communicate and they're exclusively interested in getting the most kills on the team so they can talk shit in /all. Is there some super secret method you higher-level guys used to ensure that in spite of having shitty awful teams, you still win the game? And does the refusal to work as a team still come up in the higher leagues?
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1) be the one getting fed yourself
2) dont do exclusively interested in getting the most kills on the team so they can talk shit in /all but do exclusively interested in getting the most kills money on the team so they can talk shit in /all carry hard
3) carry
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This is a topic that people have written essays on in the past. Unfortunately there is no one specific answer I can give you that will fix your problems. I can give you a few points of advice based on my extensive experience playing with much better players than myself and watching their successes however. (Alternatively, this question is answered fairly often over in the LoL subforum; you'd probably have to dig to find it though somewhere.)
Specifically how do you be a team player when your team doesn't work together? The simple answer is:
You don't.
Bronze league (without generalizing TOO much, because I'm sure there are many exceptions) players tend to have a fairly poor understanding of the game as a whole, poor mechanics, or both. As such, oftentimes the easiest way to rank up in Bronze league is to simply be far ahead of the players you are playing with and against, and carry them kicking and screaming to victory. Find a champion that you tend to excel with: one where you can CS decently well, and have a high K/D/A ratio (I wouldn't normally recommend this as it's not particularly important in team play, but since you're looking to carry and not play as a team this becomes more important). Once you have taken a large gold/item advantage and crushed your opposing laner, help out the other lanes and force objectives (ie Dragon, turrets) since the other team will not be able to fight you effectively. Even if the team as a whole has a couple players who do not follow directions, simply being joined by one or two players that DO listen to you, or having the enemy team send 3-4 people simply to stop you is often enough to snowball advantages elsewhere.
Now a lot of this is easier said than done and really requires you to work hard to understand some fundamentals that you may be missing. It also may not work effectively every time. This is only one method of climbing through the ranks and there are many others.
To answer the questions in your final paragraph, another player feeding or losing in farm is a contributing factor to a loss, yes, and is not always controllable. Ultimately you have to strive to be the best YOU can be. Play with/for your team when they seem competent enough to assist you, play selfishly when they don't. As you learn more and more, make fewer mistakes and capitalize more on the mistakes of others, you'll find you will climb the ladder naturally as you improve at the game, just the same as ladder in SC2. As you reach higher and higher levels teamwork becomes more of a factor as people realize how important it is to winning games, but of course there are feeders and people who don't communicate at every level. 
I could probably talk about this for ages and there many aspects that I didn't even get into but this is probably the shortest and easiest to understand answer that I can give. Ultimately it is best to determine what skills YOU as a player need to work on (which is often helped along by coaching or having someone watch your replays/play with you who is at a higher level) and then put those into play.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On August 03 2013 05:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hey guys in upper levels - I have a question for you. I'm under no illusion that I'm a good player. My CS is always horrible, my positioning isn't the best and there's room for improvement in virtually every aspect of my play.
I'm obviously not an upper level player, but from my experience, poor teamwork and the inability to push objectives is part of playing in bronze. Solo queue is especially tough because communication is difficult with a bunch of strangers. Silver is not much better, but you can definitely tell the difference when playing with high gold, platinum, and diamond players.
A few things to try out:
Try announcing what the next objective should be before a team fight begins so your team knows what to do if you win, rather than randomly deciding to take wraiths 45 minutes in.
If a player refuses to stick with your team, then have the team stick with them.
Buy more wards in all roles so you have more vision and the ability to make better decisions.
Keep track of dragon and baron timers so you can have your team prepare for it ahead of the other team.
Like Wave and Dandel mentioned, at that level you have to win the game for your team yourself. If you work on thinks like CS and positioning like you mentioned, you should start to carry games because the other team likely has coordination that is just as bad as your own.
Also, a reminder that we will be playing inhouses tonight at 02:30 GMT (+00:00) so join channel TLMafia if you'd like to join us.
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On August 03 2013 06:07 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 05:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hey guys in upper levels - I have a question for you. I'm under no illusion that I'm a good player. My CS is always horrible, my positioning isn't the best and there's room for improvement in virtually every aspect of my play. I'm obviously not an upper level player, but from my experience, poor teamwork and the inability to push objectives is part of playing in bronze. Solo queue is especially tough because communication is difficult with a bunch of strangers. Silver is not much better, but you can definitely tell the difference when playing with high gold, platinum, and diamond players. A few things to try out: Try announcing what the next objective should be before a team fight begins so your team knows what to do if you win, rather than randomly deciding to take wraiths 45 minutes in. If a player refuses to stick with your team, then have the team stick with them. Buy more wards in all roles so you have more vision and the ability to make better decisions. Keep track of dragon and baron timers so you can have your team prepare for it ahead of the other team. Like Wave and Dandel mentioned, at that level you have to win the game for your team yourself. If you work on thinks like CS and positioning like you mentioned, you should start to carry games because the other team likely has coordination that is just as bad as your own. Also, a reminder that we will be playing inhouses tonight at 02:30 GMT (+00:00) so join channel TLMafia if you'd like to join us.
I know I constantly promote the LoL subforum people, but in that thread you recently signed up for they try to have organized inhouses so you can lane and play against people much better than you, get crushed, and have them tell you what you're doing wrong. It's a really great learning experience but I can understand it might be intimidating or frustrating to play with people you don't know nearly as well. It would be really nice if we could get 10 people to play a full 5v5 inhouse; it's much easier for an enemy player to comment on your play when they can actually see what you do in lane.
If we can only get 5 then my suggestion is listen to whoever the highest level player we're playing with at the time (I guess Kenpachi/kita/me?) and try to understand why we're making the calls that we are. We may not necessarily be right about our calls or make good plays a lot of the time but it will help with your thought processes while in game. Mechanics and CS is stuff that you can just go into a bot game and work on by yourself. 
Edit: Oh and yeah and I should probably emphasize what kita said---we are not upper-level players in the slightest. We may be among the best in this little group (for now) but comparatively it's still pretty bottom-of-the-barrel. We're not better because there are tons of things we don't know either and there are lots of little subtleties and decision-making aspects that we aren't capable of putting into play either otherwise we'd be higher than Silver, of course!
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I'm just trying to get out of B5 guys, your input is valuable and appreciated. 
e: That is to say, stop prefacing your advice with "I may not be a high level player BUT..." because you're all high level players to me.
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Also Bot games aren't any good for CS practice are they? I mean, bots don't try and zone me out when I move in to last hit and shit....
e: Actually nevermind, thinking back I don't miss CS because my opponent is pressuring me, I miss CS because I'm letting minions kill everything. I'ma start playing more bot games. XD
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play mordekaiser, went from bronze 2 to silver 4 in 3 weeks.
ofc then people started buying MR so it stopped being an instawin and i actually found a real main to play. xD
but mostly never give up unless the game is truely hopeless. Always say its okay if somebody KS;s you, becasue you can reap the benefits of free-farming and at the end of the day the most important thing is that the enemy nexus falls.
The IRL friend i duo with has a hard concept of this, he always feels he has to carry the game and basically assumes he should be fed every game. Kills are nice, but not required.
but basically pick 1 champion, do very well with him, and you can basically carry at that low levels. Just always be motivating and saying "its okay" and "we still got this"
thats basically what i always do in ranked, in normals and on my smurf i let the rage flow (forgetting that these people arnt silver 1-gold 3)
anyway im getting on now until probably when we do the in house if anybody wants to get on.
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On August 03 2013 06:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Also Bot games aren't any good for CS practice are they? I mean, bots don't try and zone me out when I move in to last hit and shit....
e: Actually nevermind, thinking back I don't miss CS because my opponent is pressuring me, I miss CS because I'm letting minions kill everything. I'ma start playing more bot games. XD
i basically learned to CS by watching streams, xD that and take the two points in butcher (whatever the 4 bonus damage to minions are)
also use your auto attacks before using a skill to finish them off, the easiest way to explain this is with darius.
DONT:
Use your Decimate(Q i think, the spin slash) and then try to finish off each minion with an individual auto attack, you will probably miss 2-3 of them (or more depending on minions)
DO:
Hit them all with 1 auto attack, then finish off all 6 with a Q. You will hit every CS and the minions wont finish off any because they were never lower then half hp anyway.
you can do tricks like that with most champions. orianna for example too. just hit each minion then do an aoe skill.
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On August 03 2013 07:38 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2013 06:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Also Bot games aren't any good for CS practice are they? I mean, bots don't try and zone me out when I move in to last hit and shit....
e: Actually nevermind, thinking back I don't miss CS because my opponent is pressuring me, I miss CS because I'm letting minions kill everything. I'ma start playing more bot games. XD i basically learned to CS by watching streams, xD that and take the two points in butcher (whatever the 4 bonus damage to minions are) also use your auto attacks before using a skill to finish them off, the easiest way to explain this is with darius. DONT: Use your Decimate(Q i think, the spin slash) and then try to finish off each minion with an individual auto attack, you will probably miss 2-3 of them (or more depending on minions) DO: Hit them all with 1 auto attack, then finish off all 6 with a Q. You will hit every CS and the minions wont finish off any because they were never lower then half hp anyway. you can do tricks like that with most champions. orianna for example too. just hit each minion then do an aoe skill.
This is extraordinarily helpful and something I hadn't thought of - I've chosen Lux as my main and her E is PERFECT for what you're describing. Thx!
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Lux is the only one who can ALMOST pull it off tge wrong way cuz of her passive. but yeah try doing it with lux. Any chance you can hop on right now really quick?
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Nah I'm at work right now - I'll be on around midnight EDT (I work second shift  )
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I'm not too great but I'll play tonight.
My name is MundoDeIlusión on NA
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easiest way to get out of dat elo "hellz"
learn 2 roles (one popular, one not popular)
example: mid/support
another example: ad carry/jungle
get really good at those two roles, know the direct counters (which ads beat who in lane, which jungle beats other one, etc)
focus on winning your aspect of the game
you will climb unless your too caught up in what a random variable ( your team) is doing. Focus on your own play
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On August 03 2013 06:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Also Bot games aren't any good for CS practice are they? I mean, bots don't try and zone me out when I move in to last hit and shit....
e: Actually nevermind, thinking back I don't miss CS because my opponent is pressuring me, I miss CS because I'm letting minions kill everything. I'ma start playing more bot games. XD
The way I learned to cs was to play a custom with just my self in it and then keep repeating them until i could go 10 minutes without missing a creep.
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You goddamn scumbags and your laneswap shenannies.
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On August 03 2013 13:57 WaveofShadow wrote:
You goddamn scumbags and your laneswap shenannies.
My idea. I take all of the credit.
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EPT
