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I guess in thinking about that question I've come to the conclusion that I don't really like pm games because of this issue.
Paraphrasing is awkward, but if you allow direct quoting (even without timestamps) then it seems unfair to scum.
Yes, scum COULD forge pms in the writing style of the townie who died but then you're not playing mafia anymore.
Obviously not allowing any mention of pms just makes the game awkward because people will have reads based off of pms that they can't really act on, which in itself makes pms useless to begin with other than maybe coordinating power roles.
So if I had to pick I guess I'd go with paraphrasing.
Plus everyone just plays worse in pm games because they scumhunt less. =/
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Quote convos as you wish (no screenshots). Forging is easy.
No quoting host PM's, not even role PM's.
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On September 17 2013 09:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Quote convos as you wish (no screenshots). Forging is easy.
No quoting host PM's, not even role PM's.
Forging is not easy once people can directly quote pms.
When this is made possible suddenly I am spending time scrutinizing someone's writing style and mannerisms and comparing them to the pms that were just posted to see if they were forged (or to forge pms). I don't want to do that.
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On September 17 2013 09:24 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 09:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Quote convos as you wish (no screenshots). Forging is easy.
No quoting host PM's, not even role PM's. Forging is not easy once people can directly quote pms. When this is made possible suddenly I am spending time scrutinizing someone's writing style and mannerisms and comparing them to the pms that were just posted to see if they were forged (or to forge pms). I don't want to do that.
Disallowing direct quoting does take away the option from a mafia team that does want to do that however. Sure, paraphrasing could do the same thing, but it lacks the wow factor that a full set of fake logs could provide.
I think that perfectly emulating a writing style isn't really necessary unless it is someone with an incredibly distinctive posting style or someone with questionable English, which is pretty rare.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 17 2013 05:16 Clarity_nl wrote:
I guess in thinking about that question I've come to the conclusion that I don't really like pm games because of this issue.
Paraphrasing is awkward, but if you allow direct quoting (even without timestamps) then it seems unfair to scum.
Yes, scum COULD forge pms in the writing style of the townie who died but then you're not playing mafia anymore.
Obviously not allowing any mention of pms just makes the game awkward because people will have reads based off of pms that they can't really act on, which in itself makes pms useless to begin with other than maybe coordinating power roles.
So if I had to pick I guess I'd go with paraphrasing.
Plus everyone just plays worse in pm games because they scumhunt less. =/
Deception, lies, and trickery?
Sounds like mafia to me
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On September 17 2013 19:46 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 05:16 Clarity_nl wrote:
I guess in thinking about that question I've come to the conclusion that I don't really like pm games because of this issue.
Paraphrasing is awkward, but if you allow direct quoting (even without timestamps) then it seems unfair to scum.
Yes, scum COULD forge pms in the writing style of the townie who died but then you're not playing mafia anymore.
Obviously not allowing any mention of pms just makes the game awkward because people will have reads based off of pms that they can't really act on, which in itself makes pms useless to begin with other than maybe coordinating power roles.
So if I had to pick I guess I'd go with paraphrasing.
Plus everyone just plays worse in pm games because they scumhunt less. =/ Deception, lies, and trickery? Sounds like mafia to me
Eh, I get that. But if the meta would somehow drift into every game being a pm game and forging pm logs at an acceptable level was normal, I'd probably enjoy mafia less. Maybe it's more of a stylistic grievance for me, dunno.
I don't remember what game is was where someone screenshotted them playing dota to prove that they weren't around, and someone commented it was not in the spirit of the game and I kinda get that. Maybe it's not quite the same as forging pms, but once the game becomes "you gain an advantage by being able to forge documents that prove things" it just becomes a different game and one I probably would not want to play. (part of that scenario was my fault cause I questioned the guys claim of playing dota by the length of his dissapearance, so meh)
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Generally speaking in mafia I'm a fan of both sides having options.
And I don't think TL Mafia is showing any particular signs of games becoming predominantly PM with forgeries whizzing about either, so I wouldn't worry too much, babycakes
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You know I'm an idealist. Can't help myself.
Anyway I'm not calling it wrong, I'm just calling it "not to my liking"
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Well, idealistically, one might argue that convincingly forging PMs/conversations is a height of scum play.
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In theory mafia should not need to forge PM's. But it's fun. :D
I ahve actually never forged conversations as mafia, only time when i have done that is when assumed mafia wants town -- town logs and i want to make them hit who i want to. ^^
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On September 17 2013 20:33 marvellosity wrote:
Well, idealistically, one might argue that convincingly forging PMs/conversations is a height of scum play.
Hmph. Yes, it would be the height of scumplay if direct quoting is allowed. Which is why I don't like it 
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I mean, if you need to forge PM's as scum you are probably already in deep shit.
It's like kita said, the wow-factor when something like that succeeds!
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 17 2013 20:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mean, if you need to forge PM's as scum you are probably already in deep shit.
It's like kita said, the wow-factor when something like that succeeds!
don't see why that has to be the case at all tbh
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On September 17 2013 20:41 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 20:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mean, if you need to forge PM's as scum you are probably already in deep shit.
It's like kita said, the wow-factor when something like that succeeds! don't see why that has to be the case at all tbh
Because as scum you should be pushing your agenda in PM's so that you don't get caught even if the logs come in public.
In Sicilian Ver had a point in "why post logs after someone has died, because they can't be verified to be true most likely".
In GoT i made sure whatever PM's come into the thread they do not incriminate me. I PM'd with my scumbuddies when it was allowed (when Chrom was a lord). I think that's far better as scum to play like that compared to playing it risky and hope you can forge PM's if needed.
I mean, obviously at the last night i claimed scum to Risen, but that didn't matter any more because he knew i was scum already. :D
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I think the idea behind forging pms is usually that when a townie dies and someone asks for logs between you (as scum) and him, you can change his reads post mortem to suit your agenda.
edit: so forging pms definitely has benefits even if you're already winning or whatever
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On September 17 2013 22:43 Clarity_nl wrote:
I think the idea behind forging pms is usually that when a townie dies and someone asks for logs between you (as scum) and him, you can change his reads post mortem to suit your agenda.
edit: so forging pms definitely has benefits even if you're already winning or whatever
There is a problem though. What if he has been PMing someone else who is town?
I understand what you are after but it's not a good idea unless you can be sure it's only you who the dude has been PMing with and the forgery does not contradict what the dude has been saying in thread.
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PM games are generally ass
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On September 17 2013 23:44 Ace wrote:
PM games are generally ass
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On September 17 2013 23:44 Ace wrote:
games ass
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On September 17 2013 23:44 Ace wrote:
ass
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EPT
