EPTTL Mafia LXII: TL Noir
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raynpelikoneet
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Mini's are an exception where i can actually analyze everyone for their behavior/interactions with me. | ||
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On September 20 2013 18:20 marvellosity wrote: it's kinda funny, people are going stir crazy waiting. If i am a dayvigi, i'll shoot Koshi right atthe game start. Just because he has waited too hard.  | ||
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On September 20 2013 20:09 Koshi wrote: Dayvig isn't a role you can fakeclaim this game rayn. Not that it will stop you. lol, right. I have a "different" check on Koshi from N -1!! ^_^ | ||
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##Vote: Koshi! | ||
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This is important! THSISI S O MIPORTANT! | ||
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##Unvote: ##Vote: VisceraEyes EZ! | ||
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That's my case. | ||
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I am waiting on it. I am... like... I WANT TO HEAR IT! | ||
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On September 21 2013 11:56 DarthPunk wrote: LOL. Here is how you read VE. Call him scum and if he is town he will flip shit. So VE is ... ? | ||
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DarthPunk, did i understand you right? You want me and VE tunnel each other? | ||
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On September 21 2013 12:07 DarthPunk wrote: Why not? It would help me read you both, So kind of useful for me. That's fucking idiotic, even i know it... | ||
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On September 21 2013 12:11 DarthPunk wrote: How is it idiotic? Two people going at each other usually leads to heaps of information by which you can make really solid reads. Don't see how it is idiotic. But I don't think it is necessary anymore regardless. You both seem pretty townie to me. Okay. I wanna try somehing this game. Let's scumhunt as a team ok? In case you are scum, you'll fuck up at some point, in case i am scum, i'll fuck up at some point. In case we are both town, HALLELUJAH! | ||
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On September 21 2013 12:22 DarthPunk wrote: I'm not so sure about that part. Cause you know. I always think you are town even when you are scum. But sure. What do you think of what VE pointed out about geript? On September 21 2013 12:07 VisceraEyes wrote: Well, you'll do what a majority of the town wants you to do. Unless you do something I like, I'm going to try and convince them that you should hang...instead of whatever it is you wanted to do...which is nothing, apparently. You mean this post? I don't think this says anything.. | ||
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On September 21 2013 12:24 Koshi wrote: Why even add the option that you are scum? Strange, I dont remember you doing that. For realz I am in bed now. Are you afraid of something? | ||
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One thing i would like to know before: geript: What post was VE in your opinion looking to, and what post he should have instead looked into? What is the post that makes DP scum? | ||
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On September 21 2013 12:28 kushm4sta wrote: um by scumhunting as a team you mean having a conversation between the two of you that no one else wants to read? if so please dont Just make the meta case and stfu before you do so. | ||
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On September 21 2013 11:55 kushm4sta wrote: btw dp i think you are totally metaable and i plan to do it today to assert my mafia dominance over you So..? | ||
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Have a reasonable argument or go home. I can't make anything out of that bullshit. | ||
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On September 21 2013 12:58 DarthPunk wrote: How is my argument unreasonable? He clearly used meta and then flat out denied it. tbh i read blabla than bölalalal then blalansaös. Seemed like a shitfest for nothing. Wanna lynch Koshi btw? | ||
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On September 21 2013 13:02 DarthPunk wrote: Not particularly. Although you are the Koshi master. What is it about him that you don't like? Koshi is devolving in this game. Look at his last town games (in chronological order). Compare them to this game and GoT. | ||
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kush, where i the meta case you promised? Mocsta can you make some sense plz? I dont want to lynch DP or VE, they aret owj, If toyu are town geript, pick it upol. | ||
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Who are you viting ofr geript? | ||
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don't kill geript. I'll read when sober. | ||
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On September 22 2013 06:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: Koshi why did you vote for Mocsta in the first place? | ||
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Special in what way? What's scummy in that? And is he not special any more? | ||
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On September 22 2013 07:18 Koshi wrote: Special posting. And I dont have the mocsta feeling yet. I remember him from Sicilian and GoT, not the same guy. But who knowz? VA best lynch now. How does Vayne's posts make him scum? There are only two posts of his in this game. | ||
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On September 22 2013 07:25 Koshi wrote: Dude. VA can be an useless fuck when he appears to be trying (persona) now we.are keeping him around when he is rping? Vote VA. You should now why. Vayne can be useful as town if he wants to. There is no reason to start a wagon on him now, you know what'll happen regardless of his alignment. I am curious why you planted you vote on him for non-alignment indicative posts? On September 22 2013 07:29 WaveofShadow wrote: Sort of? Ill explain when not on phone (3-4h mebbe?) But I also wanted to be purposefully a litle cryptic to see if anyone else was on the same page as me since nobody has mentioned FT at all yet. The only thing i found odd in FT's post was that he was trying to appear like he was contributing. Then said he has not yet caught up in thread and never followed it up in any way. It's now been 1,5 hours since his post. He should have caught up already. | ||
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On September 22 2013 07:48 marvellosity wrote: Yes. But increasingly these days I see this as a bloody annoying-tell rather than a mafia-tell. Stutters is a well known proponent of this as town in fact Maybe it's a promise to contribute and somehow can't because he's mafia? Obviously broken promises and shit are bad, but also as mafia you tend to try to follow through on simple things like reading and making some bullshit posts. Yeah i am not saying it absolutely makes him mafia. His post just reads to me as "hi, i am now at page 30, and here's what i have gathered so far". Then what, he stops reading and doesn't finish the thread? | ||
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On September 22 2013 07:54 marvellosity wrote: I know rayn. But my reply to you is contained in my quote right there. ^_^ It's bad, but there's nothing else to say about it right now. It's not even that alignment indicative. What will be alignment indicative is what he finally posts. Yeah we are getting nowhere in talking about FT now. What are your thoughts on Koshi? | ||
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On September 22 2013 07:59 marvellosity wrote: I do wish people wouldn't randomly go after coag btw. Makes it hard to get a read on people doing so. Why go after coag when people KNOW he's going to be at least some form of useless, especially on Day 1? Are the people pursuing him really able to say "this is NOT town coag on day 1"? If not, why is the vote on coag, or why is coag on the shit-list other than for being useless? That's right. This is actually my problem with Koshi at the moment. Koshi knows what will happen if he pushes Vayne lynch now. Vayne probably OMGUSes him and that'll turn the thread into a shitfest and for people not knowing Vayne's play (regardless of his alignment) Koshi will look better than him with justified reasoning. That however does not tell anything about either of those people's alignment. Vayne needs to be let doing his own stuff. Regardless of if he is mafia or not attacking him at this point, when he has posted twice, does not help figuring out his alignment. He is capable of good analyses, but if someone attacks him for stupid reasons he'll attack back. If he and his useless posts are left unnoticed he'll have to contribute something useful, otherwise we lynch him. | ||
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On September 22 2013 08:08 Risen wrote: That's an awful scummy post from rayne. You defending two people you know are town? I am not defending anyone, i am asking what makes Coag / Vayne scum. Those are probably the easiest places to place a vote at the moment aside from no-posters. | ||
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On September 22 2013 08:10 Koshi wrote: What if Vayne doesnt break character rayn? lynch. | ||
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On September 22 2013 09:37 justanothertownie wrote: Because in my experience town does it all the time, too. It's not that it doesn't matter but if you want to convince me the dude is scum you should give me more reasons. Yeah you are right. It does not mean he is scum. But it's a post that serves no purpose. It says nothing. You should be by default curious of his intentions for making the post. It helps you getting a better read on him and it helps out people getting a better read on you. Townies should care about finding scum, bad posts should be called out. | ||
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On September 22 2013 09:40 justanothertownie wrote: Yes. Now tell me when I said something different? Your initial answers to OO read me as you were not interested in knowing more about Zaragon. | ||
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On September 22 2013 19:36 Zaragon wrote: I don't read either Tofu or DP as scum right now. The problem with that is, they could both be, playing off each other, as it would be a good time for that. Still, I'm going to assume they're town for now since the other line of thinking is currently not useful. Especially since Tofu suspects VE, who I have had a bad feeling about all game. I don't see any other reasoning for going after DP at this point as scum, I hope DP will elaborate about why he thinks there is. Oh and from earlier: It was a bedtime post. But I'm glad you made some kind of use of it, even if only Rayn comes out looking slightly scum from it, to me. Rayn, would you say that your posts have generally had more substance than the one you pointed out? If we assume that asking what someone else thinks is not substance. Yes i am saying that my posts have had way more substance than the post of yours in question here. How does me saying what i did make me scum? Also what exactly is your read on Pandain / VE and why? | ||
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On September 22 2013 21:12 Mocsta wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=37#735 Oh right. Could you elaborate on the reasoning? Waht makes Sentinel's vote on Coag worse than Koshi's on VA? (I assume you are voting for Sentinel because of his vote as you gave no reasoning for the vote besides a link to his post - am i right?) | ||
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On September 22 2013 21:22 Zaragon wrote: It doesn't make you scum, you have just thrown out a lot of questions and provided few reads apart from a bit on FT. Which gives little material for anyone to read you, which is slightly scummy at this point. Felt like softening his play as scum. Makes sense as town as well, though, it really was the sort of discussion where you can have an emotional reaction about something you might reread later. If he hadn't been a significant part in inciting the emotional part, it would be neutral; as is, suspicious So in comparsion you should be really scummy then? | ||
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On September 22 2013 21:32 Mocsta wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=53#1049 As for why sentinal > koshi Mainly because Koshi has still been responsive to pressure etc; and at times has commented on important thread matters. Sentinals filter just reads as blendy shite; and the vote was over compensated for what it was. Okay. I think you should really consolidate your posts, at least the one's where you vote for people. I really didn't find the reasoning for your Sentinel vote in your filter because it was spread out in three posts. What are the important matters Koshi has commented on and how is Koshi's responses to the pressure townie? | ||
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On September 22 2013 21:39 Zaragon wrote: Yet another question and no substance. I've been giving my reads and analyzing people consistently; yes, I condense my points with little detail--I type slowly and am not going to bore anyone with my medical history. Give me your read on something I have said and I will address it. I ask questions and make conclusions from them. If the questions end up in non-scum conclusion i drop the matter because there is no need to say it ends up in a town/null read. Your analysis and conclusions are all "this guy did this and then that and he could do that as scum or town both". You have ne real conclusions in your posts. I would like you to give some conclusions that actually take some stance on someone. The only thing close to this is when you called me slightly scummy, and that is bullshit. | ||
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On September 22 2013 21:49 Mocsta wrote: I dont believe I said Koshi response made him town. As for the stuff Koshi commented on, it was mainly the back/forth I had with him. Im not against re-raeding Koshi. i plan to do a re-read tomorrow (literal; not cycle). I hosently, cant be bothered filter diving him currently though. Im only posting right now, because you asked me a question. Don't worry, you'll do it when you do it. Here's the thing. You and Koshi went back and forth. After that Koshi voted for you for (1) posting specially, for you (2) faking activity, and for you (3) thinking Kush is scum for caring about rules. Point (3) was proven wrong as your thingy went on. I did ask Koshi later on why he did vote for you. He only mentioned (1), and that is bullshit. He did not mention (2) at all, while that was the only point that actually could make you scum from the reasons he gave. In other words, his vote was totally crap. After that he swithed his vote to VA. Fair enough, he could do that as town, but he had other scumreads at that moment (WoS) and he never interacts with him at any point at the game. After his rant with you he only talks about VA (and he knows that's useless). TLDR; His votes end up on someone with either shitty reasons or they end up on someone easy to plant a vote on. Or both. That's not what Koshi does as town. Look at the last game where he flipped town. After Titanic Koshi has been the shiny beacon of towniness when he is town. Here he is discussing stupid stuff or discussing no stuff at all and voting for an easy target. I think that makes him scum. ##Vote: Koshi Now, Mocsta, when you are able to; I find it weird that you are saying "Koshi has discussed important matters" because that's horribly wrong. I agree with your vote on Sentinel and if he does not improve his posting / give thoughts on something that's easy to hide behind we lynch him. But Koshi looks worse. He's actively posting but not saying shit. | ||
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On September 22 2013 22:11 geript wrote: At least there's a clear causative agent in my retardation. Unfortunately for us, you stupidity is by choice. Do you have any scumreads that's not DP? | ||
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On September 22 2013 22:15 geript wrote: Nah. Just caught up. FT looks like scum and I could join that parade. I still like WoS for scum. Otherwise naw. I'll read after D&D. Could you elaborate on WoS when you get back. I don't share your thoughts on him being scum. | ||
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What do you think about Koshi? | ||
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On September 22 2013 22:26 yamato77 wrote: Also, you should move your vote to Ray, because he is the wagon of Justice. 100% mafia. I have not played with him. Could you elaborate more on what makes him scum? I think Koshi is the best lynch atm because i actually know how he plays as town/scum. | ||
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Yeah i am reading your posts. You don't seem to try to find out marv's alignment, you seem to argue with him about something, you beth tell your pov and then you move on to different things. HAve you found out anything about marv's alignment based on what you have talked with him? | ||
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On September 22 2013 22:40 Mocsta wrote: now that koshi was getting some traction; compared to anyone else. its odd, the timing of yamato post including the "i ignored koshi post" he comes in like a hero.. and isnt even reading the whole thread.. what a douche ##Unvote ##Vote: Koshi Your post is saying "yamato is scum" (as the next post aswell). Why vote Koshi instead? | ||
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On September 22 2013 22:47 DarthPunk wrote: God now yamato thinks I am scum too. Based on me doing something I do as town in many games. Seriously look up ego and mario mini's. If you think me not 'scumhunting' and solely defending myself is scummy based on meta those games will disprove that fact. Clearly though. I have asked questions and scum hunted. I am actually not sure what yamato is saying here because I was pressuring FT on his reads and the consistency of his narrative. Which lead to a thoroughly scummy result. Honestly if everyone is going to call me scum stupidly then I am just going to ignore you all. this is a vast oversimplification of what I have, in fact been doing. I am not playing like a butthurt noob. For the record. I was relentlessly attacked by geript and tried VERY hard to not engage his blatant baiting. Then I had a productive (in my mind) talk with FT in which it became pretty clear to me that he was scum due to the inconsistencies in the claimed reasoning behind his reads. To be honest I am just about done playing with the Yamato's, Geripts and Firmtofu's of the world. Could you look at Koshi and what do you think of Mocsta's recent posting? | ||
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On September 22 2013 22:53 DarthPunk wrote: I have had a town read on mocsta for a while now. After a weirdly funky start he has been questioning and engaged with the thread. And when he says things it seems he has actually read and understood the thread which is more than I can say for most of the people in this game. I still need to read koshi's filter. But he has certainly been a non event in this game. The Key thing is whether that is because he is actually not doing much or because he is flying under the radar. I actually got the opposite feeing of him due to his stance on Koshi a while ago. Then he voted for Koshi and followed it with two posts that say "yamato is mafia". | ||
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On September 22 2013 22:56 Mocsta wrote: Because, a lot of the thread likes Yam; and a case will be required. Koshi, not so much. Okay wtf Mocsta? | ||
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On September 22 2013 23:00 Mocsta wrote: ?? Are you trying to tell me, that if you had two or three scum reads; you just random dip which one you push. Sometimes its based on % to flip scum Sometimes its based on getting town buy-in. Jeez.. stop playing so naieve. Do you really think after the fanfare yam got 12hrs ago, that hes going to be lynched Day1. News bulletin.. hes not; Koshi on the other hand can. This aint rocket science. I thought you were above this "this guy can't get lynched on D1 even if he is scum". Why don't you make a case on yamato if he is most likely to flip scum? Do you, or do you think Koshi is more likely to be scum than yamato? | ||
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On September 22 2013 23:09 Mattchew wrote: has anyone ever seen someone go back and read the thread and provide updates as they go along as scum? and i can get down on a yamato vote for reasons stated above by others or a stutters vote cause hypocrisy What's your stance on Koshi and Mocsta? | ||
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On September 22 2013 23:10 DarthPunk wrote: OK I read Koshi's filter and it seemed to contain a lot of one liners. Wasn't he going away though and stated before the game started that he would potentially be phone posting? If he is limited to phone posting then his filter makes a lot more sense as it is much more convenient to stick to one liners whilst phone posting. Like I am unfamiliar with the standard of play required from Koshi. If it is a high standard and he is usually active and curious and writes good posts then I would be concerned that he was flying under the radar. But if I discounted meta, then I would probably not want to lynch Koshi and here is why. Here he states when questioned about both myself and geript that he does not want to lynch us? Why would a scum that is trying to fly under the radar take that position on both of us? I think as scum it would be far easier and more convenient to just side with one or the other and no one would really care. Saying that you don;t want to lynch either draws attention to Koshi and if we read his filter and decide that he is trying to lay low, taking a controversial position just does not gel with that mindset. Why would scum want to side with one of you two in case; (1) You are both town? (2) One of you is scum? (3) Both of you are scum? | ||
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On September 22 2013 23:12 Zaragon wrote: I dunno what "softening his play as scum" means. I thought it was suspicous because he dropped his read based on my counter-point so easily. What i wrote was my own insight, but certainly also far from fact. I personally was expecting him to hold his point of view, and counter, my counter-point. Unless of course I was that convincing. DP kinda suggested later that may have been the case. Perhaps this point of discussion isn't worth pursuing then. Think it was partly that, partly just him rereading the posts in the morning. After that, it makes sense as either town or scum, just with different motivations. As I said I read the motivation from his posts more scum. By "softening his play" I mean trying to go lower profile and taking less risks. On September 22 2013 21:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: I ask questions and make conclusions from them. If the questions end up in non-scum conclusion i drop the matter because there is no need to say it ends up in a town/null read. Your analysis and conclusions are all "this guy did this and then that and he could do that as scum or town both". You have ne real conclusions in your posts. I would like you to give some conclusions that actually take some stance on someone. The only thing close to this is when you called me slightly scummy, and that is bullshit. Yes, I keep in mind the possibility that someone could be town even if they do something scummy. I'm not scum so I don't know who is town besides myself. I've given reads on what is likely; if you prefer, you can read them as more definite when you interpret me. I currently have no interest in pretending someone is absolutely scum or absolutely town, I have an interest in making links, and for day 1 choosing a good, likely target that yields a decent amount of information. Currently I'd be fine with VE lynch (feels scummy and would give us significant info from the early day events). There are lots of possible backups like LoneMeow, Sentinel, Rayn, Pandain but I don't have a comfortable read on them. I don't care about the lurkers or people posting nothingness, fine for throwaway lynches but mostly irrelevant for analysis. Of course, if we can't pass a lynch on someone else, we do need to get rid of them sooner or later. I have decent town reads on Marv, Tofu, Geript, DP and Mocsta. But the situation suggests at least one of them as scum considering the amount of conflicting reads on each other. Unfortunately I can't tell who, if so.[/QUOTE] Okay so last time. I did something scummy according to you. What is that i done that's scummy? And how is that scummier compared to your own posts. Also what are your thoughts on my case on Koshi? | ||
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Think it was partly that, partly just him rereading the posts in the morning. After that, it makes sense as either town or scum, just with different motivations. As I said I read the motivation from his posts more scum. By "softening his play" I mean trying to go lower profile and taking less risks. Yes, I keep in mind the possibility that someone could be town even if they do something scummy. I'm not scum so I don't know who is town besides myself. I've given reads on what is likely; if you prefer, you can read them as more definite when you interpret me. I currently have no interest in pretending someone is absolutely scum or absolutely town, I have an interest in making links, and for day 1 choosing a good, likely target that yields a decent amount of information. Currently I'd be fine with VE lynch (feels scummy and would give us significant info from the early day events). There are lots of possible backups like LoneMeow, Sentinel, Rayn, Pandain but I don't have a comfortable read on them. I don't care about the lurkers or people posting nothingness, fine for throwaway lynches but mostly irrelevant for analysis. Of course, if we can't pass a lynch on someone else, we do need to get rid of them sooner or later. I have decent town reads on Marv, Tofu, Geript, DP and Mocsta. But the situation suggests at least one of them as scum considering the amount of conflicting reads on each other. Unfortunately I can't tell who, if so. Okay so last time. I did something scummy according to you. What is that i done that's scummy? And how is that scummier compared to your own posts. Also what are your thoughts on my case on Koshi? | ||
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On September 22 2013 23:16 DarthPunk wrote: Because when the whole thread is giving out town/scum reads it is a lot more convenient for a scum who is laying low to say. 'Oh X is scum and Y is town', than to say 'I don't know who is scum or town but I don't want to lynch either of them.' Correct me if i am wrong but i think the only one who gave a strong scumread on either one of you was you? | ||
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On September 22 2013 23:27 DarthPunk wrote: No i think a few people came out over the course of the day leaning one way or the other. I dunno dude. Like you could be right, and I clearly don't have the same grasp on reading koshi that you do. But after reading his filter and because of the other stuff I brought up I certainly don't think he is very scummy. He could be lying low. Or he could just not really be trying. I can't tell which so I think a Koshi lynch would be a bit of a gamble honestly. Town Koshi: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=427569&user=Koshi http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=424349&user=Koshi Scum Koshi: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423047&user=Koshi In addition to what he has exactly posted, which one of the games would you say mirrors his play in this game the best? | ||
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On September 22 2013 23:41 DarthPunk wrote: God damn rayn linking me 23 page koshi filter. lol sorry, it was supposed to start from p1 at every game. :D | ||
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On September 22 2013 23:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: lol sorry, it was supposed to start from p1 at every game. :D Oh, i get what you are saying. Don't read the whole filters obviously. Read the first ~2-3 pages, that's where we are at atm. | ||
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On September 22 2013 23:49 DarthPunk wrote: Well If that is the case I feel like this game is more like his town game. In his town games he posted many one-liners. in his scum game his posts were generally a paragraph in length and he posted far fewer one liners than his town game or this game. Look at how he interacts with people. Even in his one-liners the thoughts are clear and not wishy-washy at all. It's easy to understand what he thinks and why, even when he does not give complete reasons for his thoughts. It's nothing like this game. He does not follow any "game plan" in this game. His thought process is not clear and his reasons change after asked about them. If you want to have more insight of his meta, please read GoT scum QT (the first ~150 posts). Here: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/QABVbtFWtEj | ||
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On September 22 2013 23:53 Mocsta wrote: Keep in mind DP/Rayn, Koshi was heavily coached in GoT. Look, hes a fuckn ballsy player thats for sure. My first game with Koshi was in sicilian, where he was the SK. He then replaced into a newbie, and the difference in play was immediately apparent (granted thats 3P vs town.. so may not be indicative of scum). Fact, if Koshi wants to look town and be useful, he can. Overall, the points rayn made before are quite interesting and do lean scum I feel. Whereas the point that DP raised for townieness, is highly situation (as he admitted later when queried). I think this leads to an overall leaning scum read (not confirmed obviously). That's what i am talking about, because i coached him in GoT! I also know what he would most likely do when he is not coached, and it's what he is doing here. | ||
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On September 23 2013 00:20 Koshi wrote: Sorry rayn, I am just busy. I think I will have 24 hours now that I can be very active in. Am I still scum if you know for a fact I couldnt post more? About thread: I once heard that yamato as scum does 1 tryhard post and then fucks off as scum. But in this game I feel like it is town yamato. That first post wasnt a scummy trying to not get lynched day 1 post. FirmTofu was scum in Titanic and Persona. I dont feel like he is scum here. Need to reread a bit though. Because FT likes to OMGUS himself when he is scum and I thought I read that once. Not sure yet. I am not making a read on you based on what you don't post. What's that question about? | ||
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On September 23 2013 00:37 Zaragon wrote: Deflecting with questions. You've started to contribute more, but you still do more deflecting than giving reads or opinions when someone actually talks directly with you. I have no problem with questions, but when you don't attach much of your own opinion, it's easy for you to pretend you had a different agenda. Especially in a filter later on. Maybe I'm over-reading you, but to me it's enough to say you lean slightly scum. I read up on your meta case on Koshi, I'd say it does make his voting and push for VA more scummy than I had assumed. My problem is, he seemed a lot more interested in his scum game than he is now. Anything to show he's just acting like he's mostly fooling around now? My case on Koshi is not based on meta. It's based on what he has done this game and how it does not make sense to me. There is meta to support my argument, but my argument is not based on meta. Could you elaborate more on why you think it's a meta-case, do you think Koshi's actions this game have been townie aside from meta? | ||
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On September 23 2013 00:58 Koshi wrote: Otherwise rayn wouldnt vote me. His vote is based on it. He thinks I am going after easy targets with flawed reasoning. I think that I voted Mocsta before our little chat. But not certain. If so, that is bad for rayn his case. And VA was explained. I dont have other reads. Maybe rayn is a little rattled after my quick jabs at him the first couple hours of the game. Dnu. You voted for Mocsta in the middle of your argument, at the late-parts of it. Can you respond to the case. | ||
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On September 23 2013 01:18 marvellosity wrote: Not particularly. Has anyone really kinda gone after me though? Full-sized games are different to minis remember. In any case, every time he posts I think he's town, and then my town-feelings kinda slip away again when he just goes afk. What do you think of this set of posts; On September 22 2013 22:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah i am reading your posts. You don't seem to try to find out marv's alignment, you seem to argue with him about something, you beth tell your pov and then you move on to different things. HAve you found out anything about marv's alignment based on what you have talked with him? | ||
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On September 23 2013 01:22 justanothertownie wrote: Why should yamato try to figure out marv specifically? There are quite a few good players in this game. He specifically said that's how he works in games. He finds out marv/(Hapa's) alignments and lynches them or works with them. He also gave me an impression he has tried to read marv's slignment, i don't see him doing so. | ||
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On September 23 2013 01:29 justanothertownie wrote: How is that nitpicking? I am legitimally interested in the reasoning. Also I read parts of that game so I know where rayn is coming from but it was a mini and hapa/marv where definitely the most "prestigious" players in the game. This game however is much larger and there are some really good players besides marv. I get what you are trying to say. It might be the size of the game. However what's bothering me about yamato is that despite Desert mafia being a mini game he was ONLY talking about Hapa/marv on D1 (at the start of the game). In this game he gives ~5 half-arsed scumreads in his big post and then votes for a newbie despite having said "i'm terrible read newbies" earlier on in the game. He is not really trying to read the strong players, while that's how he operates usually as town. | ||
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On September 23 2013 01:45 DarthPunk wrote: Before I go to bed I wanted to discuss this post from Firm Tofu in light of him being quite scummy. Now this is clearly a piece of blue hunting, but notice how he tries to downplay his question? Like he doesn't want to be taken serious in his blue hunting because he has inherent guilt and knows it is suspicious. Thoughts? Why do you think that's bluehunting? I am not following you. | ||
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On September 23 2013 01:48 Mattchew wrote: I blue hunt as town but im not bad enough to post about it... I dont think its scummy, and if that is his intention its super bad scum play Thank yourself there are not some people in this game.. You would get lynched for that. :D | ||
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On September 23 2013 02:23 Coagulation wrote: ok caught up. Can someone explain the VE messup I cant wrap my head around it. also I seen someone ask about chairays play history and I know he has played around 3 games I think on another forum with me and he was scum every time and raped town alive. His play this game looks like its a bit different than those games tho but I could be wrong. wtf, is this true? I did get the opposite feeling from his/Mocsta's interaction earlier (that he is not that good). | ||
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On September 23 2013 02:38 Koshi wrote: So many people want to lynch the stray kitten. I ll reread the james bond game and see if I agree. Elaborate fully on my case on you. Then tell us who do you want to lynch. Otherwise i make sure you'll get lynched. | ||
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On September 23 2013 02:59 VisceraEyes wrote: Well frankly because I can see a town Koshi doing that same thing. That's not alignment indicative to me. Yamato would/should be pushing for his strongest scum lynch right now and he's not and I do NOT expect a town yamato to do that same thing. What you say about Koshi is not right. I mean, i find yamato scummy for that post and for what i said later on, but i want to wait for him to post more before making a final judgement on him. I don't think he is as scummy as Koshi is. Could you elaborate more on this Koshi thing, what makes you think he could do that as town? Can you show me some proof of it? | ||
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On September 23 2013 03:02 Umasi wrote: Because I think he's town. Chairmans just pretty good lynchbait he certainly was last game, and his play so far has evoked an identical feel. on another note, find it annoying how you're like 'umasi hasn't talked enough about the important things in the thread' and then ask me about two one liners. kinda wacky, but I have a town read on you. idk about FT, slightly scummy for me, because of how contrived his pressure on DP felt for a silly reason thank god your thoughts on me basically are 'if he's red, man we have some things to go on' and 'he hasn't talked about important things!' Lynching for information is something I'm a firm disbeliever of, I think it's frequently a scum tool fwiw, I told you guys I'd respond to questions you had for me (and the only one I've seen is mocsta's) mocsta kinda grouped us together as non-contributing-flying-under-the-radar dudes iirc, so you suddenly voting me with THAT shit reasoning is why I'm voting you, because it feels you're like 'quick target the other dude who's in a similar position to me' also there's a vote thread, use it ##vote sentinel This vote is really bad. It's basically an OMGUS with completely twisting Sentinel's case around. That's exactly how i felt when you unvoted LoneMeow. | ||
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On September 23 2013 03:06 Risen wrote: Didn't even see the question. Don't know, seems ok to me. He wasn't in my last game so he really only knows my play from a long time ago, I'm not holding his push on me against him. Football and magic prerelease today. Okay so, you called me out for "defending VA and Coag". Marv did the exact same thing, at the exact same time. Why is he a townread for you and i am (am i?) a scumread for you? | ||
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On September 23 2013 03:15 Coagulation wrote: ok so apparently theres no dirt on ve and thats pretty good cause hes clearly town. yamato threw some dirt on VE along with JAT. That's what i remember. What are you referring to? | ||
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On September 23 2013 03:24 Umasi wrote: Well, let's work through this a bit I'm town, so when I read the thread and see someone who (according to mocsta (who I've kinda considered an influential townie)) occupies a similar position within the thread as me is immediately voting me for that reason, when he's done exactly the same thing? Why IS he voting me instead of someone else in the thread? Specifically, why did he choose me to vote gah I'm not phrasing this very well. basically why am I scummier to him than other people in the thread is my question. also, how is this similar to me unvoting lonemeow, that it's bad play or that it's scum? regardless, I don't think I twisted what he said, I tried to read into what he said. But that's not at all what you said in your last post... | ||
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On September 23 2013 03:31 Risen wrote: He's done more than defend people. He attacked people and give short, concise reasoning for doing so. Yeah but i did not defend anyone. I questioned votes, i never said VA/Coag is town. Is my play somehow scummier than marv's at this point? Why? Do you know how marv operates as scum compared to what he does as town? | ||
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On September 23 2013 03:36 Umasi wrote: if it was what I'd said in my last post, why would I bother saying it? I was expanding on it since you seemed to want expansion on the topic. Ehh.. I called out your reasoning for your vote. Instead of defending your reasoning for the vote you give new/different reasoning for it. Why did you not write that in the first place if that makes him scum? | ||
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Also do you still think VA is scum? | ||
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On September 23 2013 03:45 Umasi wrote: dunno, because I'm bad I guess. Is the reasoning flawed? (because I obviously don't think it is) Your first reasoning was, the latter is not. That's what bothers me in you. | ||
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On September 23 2013 03:47 Umasi wrote: okay. idk if I can help explain it more :| so do you think sentinel is town then? I do not have a town read on him. I think i have said it before. I dunno how he plays as town but if he continues posting as he has, and does not answer you he is a good lynch. Only thing that looks good to me on him was what he said about you regarding LoneMeow, because that was exactly what i thought when you unvoted him. Why did you unvote him btw? Why not continue pressure on him? | ||
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On September 23 2013 03:48 Koshi wrote: 1) I asked if it was similar. imo it is very similar. I will vote for the Stray Kitten, but I am looking into yamato atm. First opinion he is not scum. 2) I never thought VA is scum. You still don't get what I was trying to do? On (2), no, i do not get it. Explain it to me please. | ||
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On September 23 2013 03:53 Koshi wrote: VA is proud about 2 things. 1) he always plays a different style. 2) he doesn't get misslynched as town. Obviously he is doing 1) again, but by piling votes on him he is forced to give out stronger reads / break character to make sure 2) doesn't happen. If he would have continued doing nothing he was probably scum. So why did you not push more votes on him instead of giving up when someone disagrees with you? You got Pandain to vote with you, why is it impossible for you to push your agenda if i disagree with you? That's not town!Koshi'y. On September 23 2013 03:54 Umasi wrote: Well I understand what you're saying rayn, I just don't know how I can help you figure it out *shrugs* I read his vote, went 'this is kinda scummy' then thought about why it was scummy. I expanded on the first point in the second post, as much as to explain to you guys what it was scummy as well as to figure out myself if it actually was. *shrug* if this isn't enough of an explanation go talk to other people in the thread about it I guess Yeah your explanation is enough for me atm. | ||
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On September 23 2013 04:08 Koshi wrote: I wasn't home and enough people already said that it wasn't going to happen. So nha. Who did say that? Me, marv and Mocsta. One of those guys is a dude you had a scumread on. Why can't we be scum defending Vayne? Do you think we were being reasonable? | ||
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On September 23 2013 04:15 Koshi wrote: Pretty sure enough time passed that it wasn't going to happen. It would also look extremely bad if I kept hammering on it. So nha, it wasn't going to happen. Don't be silly, you know it as well. Since when have you been concerned about looking bad as town? I am confused now. Why did you even start that shit in the first place as the outcomes are: 1) Vayne gives no shits about your vote and that doesn't tell anything about him 2) Vayne breaks his character, does that make him town? 3) You end up looking bad when people disagree with you | ||
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##Unvote: ##Vote: LoneMeow | ||
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On September 23 2013 04:39 LoneMeow wrote: How am I supposed to do that when I have no reads and no thread presence? ##Unvote: Okay look. LoneMeow. If you are town you want to convince people someone is mafia and lynch them. If you can't do that, you gotta place your vote on one of the cases and explain why that case is the best (better than others). Voting for yourself serves no purpose because if you are town that vote is definitely not on scum. You do not want to look like a complete idiot who has no credibility and no clue what's going on at the moment. Being wrong is not scummy. But you definitely do not want to say "i wanna lynch this guy but i am probably wrong". If you are voting for Umasi (or anyone) and they are scum they already know you are not confident in your vote and you are easily swayed to somewhere else. Of course you can't know if you are right or wrong, especially on D1. This looks really bad because in case you are town your vote is on the only person you know is definitely town atm. So cut the martyring, find your best lynch and start playing instead of this bullcrap. Please. Noone is a god in this game, you can find mafia aswell as anyone in this game. ##Vote: Koshi Back to the original. You still have not done anything to make me think you are town. | ||
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On September 23 2013 04:47 Koshi wrote: So evul rayn. So evul. I am going back to sauna. Elaborate on your scumreads. | ||
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On September 23 2013 05:18 Koshi wrote: I don't have any strong reads. FT, LoneMeow. One of these my vote will end up. Elaborate on FT. What do you mean by "i would expect more from him"? | ||
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On September 23 2013 05:32 Koshi wrote: He had a discussion with DP and then out of this discussion he had a scumread on VE. It also seemed like he had first a scumread on DP and then in the discussion with DP he ended up with a townread and then decided that DP buddies were scum? Something like that. So what's wrong with that? | ||
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1) Called out Mocsta for bad reasons. 2) When Vayne made a non-alignment indicative post, retracted from the vote on Mocsta and voted for Vayne. 3) Retracted from Vayne because some people called his vote out. 4) Called some random people scum and voted for LoneMeow for martyring. 5) Reasoning for FT being scum is... no, actually there is no reasoning, Koshi just summed up what FT has done this game. TLDR; Bad, useless posts, fear of being called out for his ideas/intentions, summing up what someone said and calling them scumfor it without conclusions. And that's my case, Koshi is scum. | ||
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On September 23 2013 07:22 Koshi wrote: Also people know you want to lynch me rayn. What are your other reads? Sentinel, Chairman Ray, Risen. | ||
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On September 23 2013 07:24 Koshi wrote: Cool. Chairman Ray wants to lynch me. Now look at your townreads. Do they want to lynch me? Is mocsta a townread for you? Is VA? wtf has my townreads / Chariman Ray wanting/not wanting to lynch you have to do with your alignment (or his alignment)? Whenever has VA wanted to lynch you? I don't have a scumread on Mocsta atm, can't say he's town either. Btw when did you exactly drop your scumread on WoS and why? | ||
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On September 23 2013 08:08 Koshi wrote: ... This time he was trying to get a read on DP by posting nonsense. In Persona it was the thing with not talking in N0. Why can't -- in your opinion -- WoS do that as mafia? | ||
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On September 23 2013 09:53 Cephiro wrote: Wow shit. So many pages to catch up on. If I am not mistaken, it should be 4 hours until deadline? I'll do my best to read as much as I can, but I'll try to skim through so I can get a proper vote today. It will be a sheepish vote most likely since I don't have time to make a case. I'm going to be busy during early next week (the next few days), but I will try to be actively on for a few hours at least so that you can get a proper read on me, and that I'm able to pressure some scum properly. (This is what I get for doing irl stuffs and playing too much dota. >.>) FirmTofu / Chairman Ray / LoneMeow are the lynch candidates if i am not mistaken. And then there is Koshi who is voting for someone he doesn't even think is scum but people can't realize he is scum.. | ||
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##Unvote: ##Vote: Chairman Ray I don't think we should lynch FT. This is way more he has done in his last couple of town games on D1. While it's not much, and i disagree with a lot of stuff he is saying, it still is way better and he seemed like trying. I have no fucking idea about LoneMeow, basically a coinflip. :/ If Chairman comes up with something that's really townie lynch Sentinel instead, or Risen. I try to wake up before the deadline, not sure if it happens though. | ||
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Koshi, you need to understand that Chairman Ray voting for you had -- and shouldn't have -- nothing to do with my vote on him. I don't make connection cases pre-flip, there was a possibility that he is scum and you are town, he was my second top scumread. Therefore i voted for him. Mocsta is right in what he says about me, i hold you (Koshi) up to higher standards that you showed us on D1. From your N1 posting you look better. You are not giving a fuck what anyone thinks, you are voicing your opinion. That's not what you did on D1, you were giving bad reasons and instead of doing what you are doing now (being confident in yourself) you were more blendy and non-commital in your reads. Keep that up, makes me feel much better about you. Also your FT vote looks much better now given that CR flipped town (i still don't understand it though -- but overall it looks better as there is a fair chance FT is scum). I want to hear FT's reads too.. | ||
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You are talking about Desert i assume? That was to convince the townto lynch you over a confirmed scum because you are far more valuable to the scumteam. I don't do it on D1, when there are no flips. | ||
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On September 23 2013 19:49 Koshi wrote: That's all fine and dandy. But you went in a tunnel and never came out. Didn't even bother commenting on anything else. So nha, I was easy pickings for you to tunnel and as scum I can completely see you doing just that. I commented in a lot ot other stuff. Then i watched what was happening, tried to convince people to lynch my target, then fell asleep. Yes i did tunnel you, i admit that. But that's what i do. I tunnel the person i think is most likely flip scum. | ||
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On September 23 2013 19:51 marvellosity wrote: No, I'm talking about that game I was town and you tunnelled me relentlessly as part of a 3-man scumteam you'd made up before any of them had flipped. That game. What was that game? I assume it was a long time ago as i don't remember doing that for a long time (as it's stupid). | ||
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On September 23 2013 19:56 marvellosity wrote: Er, Basterd. Only a few months ago. Marv, please. We talked about it after the game (or when i died). It was to get shot and to keep you alive as you were a more valuable asset in that game and certainly not a veteran. It's the exact same thing i did with iamp in Bluelightz game. Obviously didn't work because Vivax couldn't get out of tunneling you after that and since then i have stopped it (because it didn't work out in Bluelightz game aswell -- as iamp claimed mason). I also did the same thing in Ego, where i posted a huge (half incorrect) case on Palmar on last night because i wanted him alive on the last day as i was copping him. | ||
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On September 23 2013 20:01 FirmTofu wrote: Ultimately, the goal is to try and convince a majority of people to agree with me. While this argument may not resonate with you, I think the majority of people can see where I am coming from. You are entitled to your opinion, so I would like to agree to disagree on this issue. Can any of the rest of you chime in on my case on Zaragon? Rayn, is there any reason you've been relatively subdued in this game? What do you mean? I am not going to look into 30 other players and try to analyze them all. I pick a portion of people who to question. If they end up town i pick a new portion, if there is scum, i try to lynch them. | ||
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On September 23 2013 20:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Marv, please. We talked about it after the game (or when i died). It was to get shot and to keep you alive as you were a more valuable asset in that game and certainly not a veteran. It's the exact same thing i did with iamp in Bluelightz game. Obviously didn't work because Vivax couldn't get out of tunneling you after that and since then i have stopped it (because it didn't work out in Bluelightz game aswell -- as iamp claimed mason). I also did the same thing in Ego, where i posted a huge (half incorrect) case on Palmar on last night because i wanted him alive on the last day as i was copping him. Yes, i said you are either scum and i am right, or you are town and won't get killed and because you are actually good at this shit people will realize itand you have a good chance in figuring out the game, better than i do. Am i incorrect? | ||
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Anyways, does that mean anything? | ||
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On September 23 2013 20:17 DarthPunk wrote: Sigh. People listen to you marv. You are usually very good at pointing out that people are about to bathe in shit and then convincing them that bathing in shit is a bad idea and should be avoided. Earlier when I spoke to you you said you didn't want to talk about it because it wasn't relevant at that time. Well it is relevant now and you still don't want to talk about it. In fact you seem to be ok with it happening. Doesn't make sense. DP, look at what geript did in Aperture. "I'm a motherfucking town vote rigger! Therefore i'll draw every single vote on me on D1 by playing stupid and i'll execute BH (who was town) just because". In case geript is town and a vigilante you are not helping yourself by telling him how retarded he is, because by doing that he will 100% shoot you no matter how wise/unwise that is. Do something else instead. I have not seen much scum reads/analysis from you this game, and i honestly think that's a bit worrying. You did enter shitfests with geript/FT, then called them both scum and voted for FT. Who else do you think is scum? | ||
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On September 23 2013 20:32 marvellosity wrote: I felt Koshi was unlikely to be mafia, because I don't think he'd display the rank apathy that he did during a lot of Day 1 as mafia. I think he'd at least pretend to be interested. Why didn't you tell my case was bad and i should look elsewhere then? That's what you usually do. | ||
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On September 23 2013 20:45 marvellosity wrote: I've already mentioned why his case is pretty bad from my pov. Rest of his posts are just bleh Oh right. Yeah i agree with you on that. Another thing that bothers me is his read on me. I generally hate when people point out things i have done, make a long post about it and then end up with a null-read. What FT said was: I'm null on rayn. There are some things he's done that I liked, but there is also a great absence of things that he could have done that he hasn't done. For rayn, he is posting in unnaturally low quantities. When that happens, rayn usually flips scum. However, in this game, rayn has been actively pursuing reads like he usually does as town. I remember a few exchanges he's had with a few people that made me think he was standard town rayn. Of course, he could be deliberately tailoring his play to get us to think exactly that. I'm still hazy on his alignment. "He has done townie stuff, but he could be scum, because he should have done more though". Like what? Why not explain what should i have done then if there is something that makes me scum that i should have absolutely done? He just leaves the read/question open and asks me about it. Wtf am i supposed to answer? | ||
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On September 23 2013 20:51 Koshi wrote: rayn why are you not mad? Why should i be mad? | ||
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On September 23 2013 21:02 Koshi wrote: that I totally wasted your Day 1. Or am I still scum to you? I don't know. I am willing to let you do your stuff. Don't waste it by OMGUSing me. Because if you do so then i will be mad. If you think i am scum fair enough, then give reasons for it. But don't just shit on for no reason. That's not gonna help anyone. | ||
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On September 23 2013 21:13 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn what do you think of marv? How engaged do you feel that he has been? Have you read hapa's case from GSLIII? marv's been less engaged as town lately, especially on D1. That's why it nearly impossible to tell his alignment early on. I am basically looking for what he does as the game goes on, D2 and D3 will tell us a lot more of his alignment. When was GSLIII played? If that's over 6 months ago, i think the meta from that game is useless in figuring out today's marv. | ||
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On September 23 2013 21:20 marvellosity wrote: I'm going to attempt to shut down your case right now, if you're going to use meta. I guess you can take it or leave it, but I probably won't say anything else on the matter. When I play scum, I try pretty hard to fake 'emotional investment' in town, to varying degrees of success. In this game, it's been pretty clear I've been trying to remain emotionally uninvolved as far as possible. Now, perhaps this is a new style of scumplay that I'm trying - I've decided that being cold and analytical will give me the best scumresults. If you believe this then there's not a lot I can do. Simplest and correct explanation is that I'm town, trying to keep emotionally stable and on an even footing as much as possible, and that this isn't my first scumgame ever where I'm actively trying to be UNemotional. This is actually bullshit marv, if you know the differences in your scum/town play you are able to fake it aswell. | ||
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And yeah, his Chairman Ray stuff is weird. Definitely a good lynch. | ||
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On September 23 2013 21:59 Koshi wrote: Ok just a quick recap because I wasn't around and it is somewhat important if you want to look at the votes. So everybody thought there were still 3.5h before the lynch, but then out of the blue the host said that we only had 0.5h left and then 0.5h later he closed the votes. That's it right? yes/no is enough. yes | ||
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On September 23 2013 22:10 DarthPunk wrote: You did it at the start with perfection. then catch 22, then for a while at the start of Persona. And all the voice mafia games don't help. And then this retarded geript tunnel on top of everything else. I'm just not having fun anymore. Ignore it and do something else. If people are being unreasonable towards you you don't win anything by flinging shit back at them. Ignore it and find scum. If they don't stop they are probably scum. | ||
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On September 23 2013 22:29 Koshi wrote: See rayn, you are not really the guy that votes for people because there post look constructed and shit like that. You vote for people because they have a scummy mindset. Can't believe you voted CR over myself if you felt so strongly about me, and while you were not convinced about FT, you decided to vote CR. I simply don't see rayn giving me up so easily, there simply wasn't enough anger and caps to try and lynch me. Problem is I don't see you saving FT like that. Even though you are also not the bussing kind of scumplayer. Even though you like to have conversation with your fellow scummers. Your lynch wasn't going to happen. It was pretty clear. I explained why i did vote for CR over FT. It has to do with his past scumplay and what he did in last game (Desert) when he got mislynched on D1 and what we talked about after that game. I don't have a town read on marv, i have explained that aswell. | ||
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On September 23 2013 22:34 marvellosity wrote: It's funny, because I'd say the players who played in Desert should be the ones with decent townreads on me by now. Why exactly? | ||
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On September 23 2013 22:39 Koshi wrote: Rayn quote me your case on CR. Like everything why you thought CR was scummy. I can't quote anything because i did not make a case on him. I agreed with what yamato said on him. How FirmTofu enters the game as scum is that he calls me scum in this manner; "soon rayn is going to find some bullshit reason to vote for me" and after that he calls my reads bad and calls me bad. That's not what he has done this game. In his last couple of town games he has been afk the entire D1, and got lynched for it. Look at the chat me/him/marv had after Desert. I didn't find him to be the best lynch because in this game he did not discredit me from the game start and he seemed to follow the advice he was given after Desert mafia. While his contributions were not good, they were not normal scum-FT'ish. I do not know if he is scum or not, because on N1 he has shown some characteristics that are similar to his scumplay (for example his really weird read on me). On September 23 2013 22:36 Koshi wrote: Ok that last post wasnt too clear. Fact is this: 1) rayn doesn't buss fellow scummers. However, he interacts with them. Townreads/scumreads doesn't matter. 2) rayn didn't tried to lynch me on the towny rayn way. Not enough caps, not enough times repeating why I am scum, too many times asking people to look at me. 3) I have no clue why rayn voted CR except for the fact he said CR was another scumread of his when I asked. And CR being less scummy than FT because FT did Guess what, saying this that rayn disagrees with is a really good way for rayn to lynch your ass. Also, if FT did more than his recent towngames, wouldn't that make it more likely he is mafia? So rayn gave many (untypical rayn) reasons why not to vote FT, and didn't gave any reasons why he voted CR. Except for "CR is the most scummy except Koshi". So rayn pretty scummy tbh. 1) Incorrect. 2) Incorrect. 3) So what am i supposed to do if the lynch i am pushing is not gonna happen? Vote for my null/townread instead of a scumread from the candidates that ARE possibly gonna get lynched? Waste my vote? wtf? | ||
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On September 23 2013 22:38 marvellosity wrote: Because my play is pretty dissimilar, the way I've asked questions and gone about things is quite different. People in Desert *just saw* my mafia play. There is one "difference" i have noticed in this game compared to Desert but that has to do with who is scum and who is not. I do not know who is scum so that can't possibly make you town, at least yet. I always have my doubts on you, because you are good in this game and definitely able to change your play based on why you got found out in your last scumgame. | ||
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On September 23 2013 22:59 Koshi wrote: 1) correct 2) correct 3) actually say why you vote for somebody. You didn't even say "I agree with yamato" when you voted CR, you just gave shitty reasons why you didn't vote FT. ^ I can't do this all day sadly enough because I am gone in 40 minutes for 48 hours. Bolded part) Well he didn't attack you, he even gave you a townread. But I am pretty sure he came in the thread calling DP scum because of the argument with geript, then went on and said geript was an inbred retard, then went on giving DP a townread, and then said VE was scum for buddying DP. Again, I already summed up that he did that while voting for FT. Can you please explain to me why FT is town for not attacking you but attacking somebody else instead while entering the thread? Why does it have to be you when he enters the thread? Your FT meta-read is: FT attacks me while entering the thread = FT is scum FT attacks somebody else while entering the thread = FT is town How close am I? 1) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=417453&user=raynpelikoneet I was scum with DP and OO. You are wrong. 2) You are not right Koshi. I do not yell á la Titanic / 4 Persona style any more, at least on D1. 3) So what if i didn't say that? Do you think it's wise for me as scum to not say that when i can just say that? That's why i did vote for CR. If you think i am scum for not saying "i agree with what yamato brought up" then i can't help you. geript was acting stupidly, there is nothing wrong with FT saying that. FT went into an argument with DP after that. It was the argument that gave him a townread on DP i am reading his posts correctly. Why can't he do that as town? I agree that his read on VE is based on stupid stuff, but does that make him scum? You yourself didn't think he was scummy for that, yet you still voted for him. No, that's not what my meta-read on FT is. I already said what my FT meta-read is. | ||
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On September 23 2013 23:51 Zaragon wrote: Feels like Rayn is going to be stuck as scum for me after this vote. I already didn't like his play, and now it has gone from slightly scum to solidly scum. Tofu is likely scum. Town is in a bad situation if he isn't, because that means mafia votes are diffused and less meaningful. But I'll assume town is in a good position, and he is. That makes my Mocsta town read go back up to solid. The rest of the scum crowd is then probably distributed between Sentinel, Cheesecake, LoneMeow, Kush, Stutters, Cephiro, VE (my gut right now says Sentinel, Cheesecake, VE) For now I'm willing to believe Marv, Geript and Yamato77 made mistakes for this vote. But Geript is not a town read for me anymore, I haven't liked his play all game so the town feel to his motivations is starting to feel tenuous Mocsta's switching off Chairman Ray easily is not suspect to me from my read on him, but it's personality based Oh and I'm finally getting any kind of read on Koshi, and it's slightly town. Do you base your read on me on what FirmTofu is in your opinion going to flip? Pretty interesting as you had a town read on FT on D1. Your scumread on FT now seems to be based on OMGUS rather than his actions. Why exctly do you think i am scum, and why exactly do you think FT is scum? | ||
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His thought process is really weird. He calls out people who voted for CR already assuming FT is scum while he had a townread on FT on D1. It's really weird also because he himself dropped his vote on somewhere where it did have a zero effect to the lynch at all. I mean, looks to me like "at least i don't look bad, now these people look bad when FT flips scum". A lot of assumptions while not taking any responsibility from the lynch himself at all. | ||
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On September 24 2013 01:35 marvellosity wrote: Someone can shoot Vayne too. Too many people to shoot. No his posts are so funny. ^_^ but for real, shoot the shit out of him.. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On September 24 2013 02:18 Mocsta wrote: Hello, this is my end of night post. Bit early, but I am too tired and won't be around for deadline + first 1/4 of Day2 (if alive). Im not that comfortable with this list, cos i only re-read the game up to p60 with full concentration; and then re-read to p73 tired as fuck. THe rest of the game is going off recollection -> but is the most pivotal part... so these reads will prob be meh.. apologies in advance. 1.DarthPunk 2.Rayn 3.Wave 5.Yamato77 6.kush 7.Koshi 8.ObviousOne 10.FirmTofu 11.Pandain 12.Cephiro 13.CC 15.Coag 16.Stutters 19.Sentinel 20.VE 21.Vayne 22.Geript 23.Risen 24.LoneMeow 25.Marv 26.Zaragon 27.MattChew 28.Umasi 29.JustAnotherTownie 9. 4. 14. 17.Onegu 18. Theres obviously something wrong with my list because I find 4 ppl firmly scummy, and 2 mildly scummy; and 3 to 4 ppl are yet to post. Anyways, light comments on the polarizing reads (1) Kushmaster Im not sure why everyone thinks a town kush gives a shit about the game Day1. The games i played with a town kush.. he hates day1 and is content to throw in comments here and there, and start trying once the play count has dwindled. To me, he genuinely seems like he doesnt know who any scum team is; tahts enough for me to give hima town read. When Kush is wrong, he is town; and when Kush is right, he is scum. (2) FirmTofu In my opinion he is either a scum agent sent to fuck with the thread (a la Blazinghand role) OR retarded town. Im inclined to think retarded town. Im not heavily experienced with firmtofu, but I know based on post-game discussions, that he believes he makes beneficial pro-town decisions -> even when the whole thread is against him. This kinda feels like that. I will admit his posting gives me a zen-like calmness too. Its slow and methodical, but in a good way. I kept the read at null cos the above is just all gut. I dont really have a hard stance on him based on filter specifics. I dont think he is a good vig shot as the chances of flipping town are higher than some other choices in my opinion. (3) Coag Im not familiar with him at all. But I have noticed that he has made an effort to keep up with the game, and when trolling, actually trolls on current matters, some that are obvious and some more subtle. To me, thats definitely a tick in his favour. I believe the scum version of Coag trolling is Risen. (4) Sentinel Right now, if i had to remove a scum read out fo the 4 bold red. Would prob be Sentinel. I dunno, its like he is too scummy to be scum.. fuck i hate that argument. In regards to vig shots. Please dont shot the 3-4 replacements. They need to be pressured heavily. They had a 24hr grace period to read the thread, so should be good to go (or at least close) by start of Day2. Good shots in my opinion {Cephiro / Vayne / Geript} but do what you want in the end. Cephiro -> Because he was (mildly) present, but I cant really recall a thing about him. Vayne -> Its clear he wont stop trolling. Geript -> Its unclear whether hes going to pull his thumb out of his ass.. THis is more a policy vig recommendation though, i dont endorse it on a good play basis. Nite peepz. I agree with a large portion of this. What i do not agree with is: Koshi: Is not necessarily town, but definitely not worth to be discussed as a lynch tomorrow unless he goes back to passive-mode. N1 he has played a lot better than on D1, but i would not call him strong town. ObviousOne: Obviously town imo. Pandain: I would put him into the "black" category. He hasn't posted in the other game aswell, might be that he's busy. I don't remember anything from him besides his weird post about Mr.CC/OO. Definitely worth taking a closer look. Cephiro: I would not vig him. If i remember correctly he posted the first time when there was 1h left into D1. Should be pressured on D2 too. Coag: I remember him playing quite similarly in Catch 22. I think that's the only game i have played with him, so idk really. Null -> leaning town. Marv: I'm not as confindent in marv being town than you are. Zaragon: He is weird. I'd say he's null rather than town. MattChew: I don't remember anything from him. I think he should do more on D2. JustAnotherTownie: I don't have a town read on him. Shoot into Vayne/Stutters/Risen/LoneMeow. More pressure on Sentinel/FT/Cephiro/Pandain/Mattchew/VE tomorrow. Replacements must contribute. Other people i am pretty sure will contribute either way. | ||
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I dunno wtf that means, but that's my read on him atm.. | ||
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On September 24 2013 02:43 justanothertownie wrote: So, am I null to you or do you think I am scum rayn? Cut by you. :p I honestly have no idea. | ||
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On September 24 2013 02:47 justanothertownie wrote: Angry? Are you angry at me? Because I am for sure not angry^^ If you want my opinion on something feel free to ask. Like I said I wont have much time until tomorrow evening so I wont filter dive anyone on my own but if there is something specific you want to know just ask. I've got nothing to ask atm. At one point when i discussed something with you (Zaragon if i remember correctly) i felt like your mindset was "fuck you, what the fuck are you talking about, you're an idiot". I might be wrong but it's not relevant atm. I know you will engage into discussions and be active on D2 so i am not bothered about the fact i have no decent read on you atm, as i have a good portion of people to look into. | ||
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On September 24 2013 02:53 kushm4sta wrote: Lol wtf is the point of all these detailed as Fuck vig lists I seriously hope you start playing decently on D2 aswell, as you are perfectly capable of doing so. | ||
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I dunno if it has to do with me and my playstyle, or what it is, but this seems kinda... idk.. odd. In comparsion to how you answer DP after that; To me your answers are just short one liners with a mindset that to me reads as "wtf are you trying to do", and to DP you give more complete answers with explanation on your thought process. | ||
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On September 24 2013 02:59 Koshi wrote: Rayn. I am not going to do anything on D2. Close to nothing. Even if you are phone posting you will! I know you will if you are town! <3 | ||
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On September 24 2013 03:38 justanothertownie wrote: I still don't have very strong reads. There are a few people I am relatively confident are town but noone I am sure is scum. People that look bad and come to mind are FT (no improvement and the lynch doesn't make him look better), Risen (I have to admit I don't know this guy at all so maybe he is just a player who doesn't give a fuck at all? - really anti town though), kush (as you said he can do better we will see Day2). I am also slightly suspicious of Mocsta because of his voting behaviour yesterday and because he obviously has a quite strong townread on me (I mean there is nothing wrong with it but the last player who read me town strongly while nobody else did was scum). I wouldn't lynch him though. Could you elaborate on the lynch thing on FT? Does that make him look worse? I don't really follow what do you mean by "the lynch does not make him look better". Also what specifically on Mocsta's voting behavior looks bad to you? I agree that his townread on you is weird. | ||
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On September 24 2013 03:51 justanothertownie wrote: If I remember this correctly he switched when ray was clearly in the lead so maybe he wanted to distance himself from the still happening lynch of a townie? No that's not right. Mocsta switched one minute before the dedaline, the votes were at that time CR (6), FT (3) -> Mocsta made them CR (5), FT (4). Both of CR & FT had yet to vote. | ||
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On September 24 2013 04:20 VisceraEyes wrote: 1: DarthPunk 2: raynpelikoneet 3: WaveofShadow 4: gumshoe 5: yamato77 6: kushm4sta 7: Koshi 8: ObviousOne 9: Chairman Ray 10: FirmTofu 11: Pandain 12: Cephiro 13: Mr. Cheesecake 14: Xzavier 15: Coagulation 16: Stutters695 17: Onegu 18: Zenatsu 19: [UoN]Sentinel 20: VisceraEyes 21: VayneAuthority 22: geript 23: Risen 24: LoneMeow 25: marvellosity 26: Zaragon 27: Mattchew 28: Umasi 29: justanothertownie 30: Mocsta Okay this is where I stand going into reread mode. If anyone has any questions for me get them into the thread. I realize there are probably too many red names, but these are where most of my suspicions lie. I'll be doing a mix of filtering and rereading, so I may be delayed in responding. gumshoe, Coag, OO. explain those. | ||
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On September 24 2013 04:26 VisceraEyes wrote: OO just isn't as engaged as I expect him to be at this stage in the game. A lot of stuff has happened, a lot of people have said things they can be held to, and OO isn't prodding/poking people the way I've come to expect him to as town. Most of his posts have stank of "Hi guys, I'm here and reading and am townie just like you!" Coag is mostly a gut feeling. I feel like I'd be further up on his scum list if he were town - I haven't done a whole lot this game and it's raising a lot of peoples' hackles, but not Coag's. gumshoe is the lurkiest lurker. I feel like scum are lurking, and no one is drawing attention to gumshoe like at all. This is suspicious to me, but it's also not conclusive. Again, mostly feels. Okay so what differentiates gumshoe from Xzavier, Onegu and Zenatsu? | ||
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On September 24 2013 04:32 VisceraEyes wrote: Well strictly speaking, nothing...but I feel like I've seen those three names brought by others up more. I might be misremembering, or remembering Xz and Onegu from playing with them before maybe, but that's my reasoning. Again, that read is mostly gut and hard to explain. I don't expect you to like it, only acknowledge it and take it into account if/when I flip. | ||
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Can you quote all of those guys filter to me and tell me why they are not red in your list? | ||
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On September 24 2013 04:39 VisceraEyes wrote: No, I'm not going to do those things rayn...nor am I going to push for a gumshoe lynch tomorrow based on all of this. You asked me and I answered. Get the fuck over it. My problem is this. None of those guys have posted once. All but Onegu got replaced.. Why do you bring up gumshoe but noone else? | ||
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On September 24 2013 04:46 VisceraEyes wrote: I told you already - because based on my (admittedly fragmented and not-quite-completely-reliable) memory gumshoe has been MENTIONED BY OTHERS the least. Okay we are making progress here. Why would mafia mention only their member and not other non-posters in case gumshoe is scum? Or if a townie brings up gumshoe and not the other non-posters, how does that make him more likely scum than the others? | ||
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On September 24 2013 04:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Not by others of their team - I'm saying by others in general. I'm saying that scum would NOT mention their teammates as lurker-lynch candidates...therefor, whoever of the non-posters has been mentioned the least is the MOST likely to be scum. Before you ask, I haven't like cross-referenced the people I've marked as red and found that they haven't mentioned gumshoe or anything, this is all strictly from my memory of the thread from reading it as it's gone along. NOT based on evidence I've found or connections I've drawn between specific players. Okay well, the thing is i do not think anyone of those people have been mentioned by anyone besides "has not posted" lists. I really don't understand where you get this "feeling" you have seen them being mentioned (other than gumshoe).. | ||
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On September 24 2013 04:26 VisceraEyes wrote: OO just isn't as engaged as I expect him to be at this stage in the game. A lot of stuff has happened, a lot of people have said things they can be held to, and OO isn't prodding/poking people the way I've come to expect him to as town. Most of his posts have stank of "Hi guys, I'm here and reading and am townie just like you!" Coag is mostly a gut feeling. I feel like I'd be further up on his scum list if he were town - I haven't done a whole lot this game and it's raising a lot of peoples' hackles, but not Coag's. gumshoe is the lurkiest lurker. I feel like scum are lurking, and no one is drawing attention to gumshoe like at all. This is suspicious to me, but it's also not conclusive. Again, mostly feels. I also strongly disagree with you on OO. Usually in games i could flip a coin and that would tell me OO's alignment more accurately than me trying to read his posts and figure out his alignment. I don't think i have ever been right on him when i have been town, every time i call him town he ends up being scum and vice versa. Me even being able to have a townread on him (and having confidence in it) is why for me he is town. When he has been talking he has been talking about stuff he has imo been talking about important stuff and mirroresd my thoughts pretty well. I don't understand where you get this "Hi guys, I'm here and reading and am townie just like you!" thing. Could you elaborate more on that? I can't say anything about Coag, because my read on him is also a gut feel. I was interested in knowing more about it if you had some new information to offer. Apparently you don't. On the lurkers/gumshoe thingy: On September 24 2013 04:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay well, the thing is i do not think anyone of those people have been mentioned by anyone besides "has not posted" lists. I really don't understand where you get this "feeling" you have seen them being mentioned (other than gumshoe).. | ||
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Who are your scumreads and why? | ||
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At the early stages of the game you said you opened four player's filters. The only thing you contributed about them after that was that you liked the tone of my posts. I asked you about your read on Mocsta and you had a town read on him. Did you get a town read on LoneMeow and Zaragon aswell? What do you think about them now and why did you pick the four people you did in the first place? Also, you said this on N1: i could see a scum team of marv, yamato, firm tofu, stutters, a replaced player, and a lurker Elaborate please? | ||
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On September 24 2013 20:15 Zaragon wrote: Your filter to me reads like this: ask question, gauge reaction, give opinion based on reaction. Sometimes ask multiple questions, give opinion if one leads in the right direction. The few times you went opinion + question at once, it didn't feel substantial to me. Feels like a scum way to play, even if its not an unreasonable way to play as town; as I said you were only slightly suspicious to me at first. Until the end of the day when you felt aligned with FT and voted Chairman Ray, at which point I felt you would be confirmed scum if FT flips scum. That's how you are supposed to play lol. So i am scum because i ask questions and make conclusions based on answers, and because i did not vote for FirmTofu whose alignment you don't even know. that's really weak dude. | ||
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On September 24 2013 21:21 Mocsta wrote: Will provide more when I'm home. Too hard on phone. But in short. His post came about 3 to 4min after night post. Thoughts are too coherent for new Info I think. Consider time to refresh , read post with lots of flavour, and think about outcome, plus type. Pandain admitted to being a slow typed too. I'm saying, his point of view is based on info town did not have. Exacerbated when questioning why yam wasn't shot. For me personally, he wasn't a solid night1 kill. So yeah. Dunno when I will be home. Plus coming from a port tasting night. So to be honest. I'm a touch hammered. On a side note. Vintage port IS incredible. Oh, considering the timeframe Pandain posted in this is a good point. I was curious because when i read the PC post i had same thoughts than he posted. Only wtf moment was BH getting killed. | ||
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On September 24 2013 22:03 Mocsta wrote: pc post? Btw can't tell if u agree or disagree PC post = Day post. I agree with you. | ||
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On September 24 2013 23:13 Mocsta wrote: Rayn, I'm home and here. Im fully caught up on the thread in a "thread sentiment" type of way. But not caught up on all on what it means to me. Direct me. I don't know what you want me to do? I don't understand. I want to hear Sentinel's reads because i think he is scum and i have no idea what he is doing if he's not. I am voting for him. I think your case on Pandain is good and i want to hear more from him. I want to hear more from Mattchew because he has done jack shit this game. I am okay with Zaragon atm (his answers to me). I would love to hear some reads from him that are not "assuming FirmTofu is scum..." because i still think that's bullshit way to present reads, associating one's own reads to an unflipped players alignment. FT could also talk about something that's not Zaragon. There is where i am atm. | ||
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On September 24 2013 23:32 Mocsta wrote: OK, i was trying to do what Koshi said we were doing before (but clearly not) buddying.. i.e. i want you to be my new DP. lets work together. In short, I was saying, is there someone you want me to look into and provide thoughts. P.S. my issue with sentinel as scum boils now to my last night post.. "too scummy to be scum".. do you think a guy that has been called scum by several people would CONTINUE to do the same shit that landed him on heat in the first place - if scum? I'm pretty sure, a scummer would have changed up the gameplay by now (this all considers that sentinel had enough pressure to warrant being threatended... which I am actaully not sure is the case??) I think "too scummy to be scum" is a stupid heuristic that should never be used and i don't believe in it. I believe in what people post and does it make sense from town/scum pov. Sentinel is making very little sense, and while he has posted a good amount, i don't feel like he is trying to find scum. I would like you to look into Mattchew and what he has actually done in this game. Also i would like you to give updated thoughts on FT and one player of your choosing. | ||
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At the end of D1 you voted for FirmTofu. On N1 i see no posts from you that make me think your scumread on him has weakened. Then, at the end of N1 you say this: (2) FirmTofu In my opinion he is either a scum agent sent to fuck with the thread (a la Blazinghand role) OR retarded town. Im inclined to think retarded town. Im not heavily experienced with firmtofu, but I know based on post-game discussions, that he believes he makes beneficial pro-town decisions -> even when the whole thread is against him. This kinda feels like that. I will admit his posting gives me a zen-like calmness too. Its slow and methodical, but in a good way. I kept the read at null cos the above is just all gut. I dont really have a hard stance on him based on filter specifics. I dont think he is a good vig shot as the chances of flipping town are higher than some other choices in my opinion. Now you are bringing up vote analysis from D1 and want marv to discuss them, yet you are unwilling to to discuss FT "because he is not most likely to flip mafia" according to you. What has changed? What in FT's posting has ACTUALLY made you think he is town? And why do you want to discuss things straightly related to his alignment but you are unwilling to discuss FT himself? | ||
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On September 25 2013 00:12 marvellosity wrote: If you replace 'ego' with 'penis', perhaps. I'd bet you say "both 10". Then the question arises. Which one are you lying about? | ||
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On September 25 2013 00:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Am I missing a case on Sent somewhere? FT seems like the obvious lynch to me and I don't get the resistance I'm getting.  Sentinel is making very little sense, and while he has posted a good amount, i don't feel like he is trying to find scum. | ||
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On September 25 2013 00:11 Stutters695 wrote: I'm awake. Going to do some serious analysis today since I've gone from bedridden to just a moderate fever. I'll be fielding questions if anyone has any while I work Are you caught up with the thread? If you are not, when you are, do this. Pick three most important things you find worth discussing at the moment. Make analysis of them and give your conclusions about them. | ||
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On September 25 2013 00:22 Mocsta wrote: I dont get the problem, we are talking about two isolated events. (1) = FT filter (2) = Read outcomes from a FT flip What I wrote end of Night1 *is* my take on FT. Im not going to stop anyone else talking about him, because, im not a god of mafia and clearly can be wrong. Im saying, hes not my focus at all.. a fuck face like that. i coul read his filter 10 times and still not be certain if i want to lynch him. So to answer your questions (1) Indicators for town? - Zen-like feeling in posts. Even though its obviously refined/constructed.. its a different type. - The way he kept stopping himself from reading the thread, by engaging in live convo BUT still ensured he read the thread. *This mimics my play replacing into "the game". I personally think scum replace into the game by either, waiting to read the whole thread and then making an impact.. or forgoing reading the thread all together and just start from the live point (a la DP in personality 2) Sorry.. personal heuristic, whether right or wrong. - Has the guy actually pushed a scum agenda? Yes he is posting as if hes in the town leadership circle (e.g. submitting his own vig list).. but, hes not getting traction, and does it actually read as deceitful? (2)Why do I want to discuss things related to his alignment but not willing to discuss him. I believe this is answered by the above. The q to marv, was curiosity about the information we could gain. I was trying to ascertain whether the best course of action was for an information lynch; or scum lynch. (Obviously bonus points if info lynch gives a scum lynch). (1) My problem is your explanation does not really make sense to me because your interactions towards FT on N1 do not support what you are saying about the "zen-posting". I don't see you thinking "okay, fuck, this guy could be town aswell" from your posts towards FT on N1. Also why do you bring up replacing, FT has been in the game for the whole time, he has not replaced in. (2) So what's the point of discussing things related to his alignment if you don't know his alignment and are not willing to find it out atm? | ||
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On September 25 2013 00:24 marvellosity wrote: you know, rayn, it's much more useful if you don't set "homework" and see if people do useful shit without being prompted. The problem is a majority of players don't do it, even if they are town, and then they get lynched. I would rather get every piece of information out of everyone regardless of their alignment. It also helps out determining their alignment. | ||
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Matt, you don't need to answer me, answer Mocsta instead, that's where i was heading. | ||
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On September 25 2013 01:22 Mocsta wrote: Tru dat. You will have to make up ya own mind. Btw, if you haven't learnt by now. Town Mocsta loves engaging in live convo, often at the expense of not filter diving so a lot of stuff said is based off first impressions. Its a really bad habit/flaw in play. As a replacement, i am not as exposed to this issue, because theres no need to be a thread driver. Only ppl like marv (when at his peak) can maintain thread driving presence AND filter diving presence. Also means mafia dominates life.. so... I tell you though as an aside, if by some miracle you are scum.. I will be devastated. (Srsly) After GoT I made a hoohaa about clear differences in ya town/scum play, and I had a hard town read on you early. so would be embarassing Yeah i get it. I actually do pretty much the same. that's why i misremember stuff. I dislike filter diving and bank more on my memory of what has happened and who were interested in important discussion topics and who were not. When i read filters and find a scummy post i click on the # button and read the post in context. But all in all i miss a fuckton of stuff/people especially in large games. lol at your second paragraph. That was actually very well put about differences in my scum/town play you wrote after GoT, probably closest anyone has ever put it. I gtg to work for a couple of hours. I'm waiting for Mattchew & Sentinel to answer. Interrogate the quiet people if they show up guys. | ||
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On September 25 2013 05:58 deconduo wrote: Wait unless I'm missing something here, how is yamato confirmed? From what I understand, and coag hasn't been that forthcoming with information, coag claimed a vig shot on yamato, and yamato claimed he was protected. Why does that make yamato town? All it means is that coag is semi-confirmed, and a doc saved yamato. Why would a scum lie about being protected, it makes sense for yamato to claim the protection regardless of his alignment. Coag kinda claimed shooting VayneAuthority, not yamato. No sane townie would shoot yamato in this game N1. Read Vayne's filter so you can see why he was shot. | ||
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On September 25 2013 06:12 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I agreed with him, this is when I convinced myself that Chairman was scum and yamato was right. I read the filter that marv told me to read, and his play as town there was pretty much a carbon copy of his play here. So I switched to my other scumread, Stutters. Then later I picked up Umasi, a better scumread at the time, and then yamato. Guess I was wrong about your implication. Like I said, I didn't know if it was your intention, but from your wording it seemed like you would commit to a fault like the townies you speak of. Anyways, my point still stands that you really haven't offered much on Zaragon ever since marv poked holes in your first read. I am a bit puzzled. Did you think yamato was town when you voted for CR? | ||
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FT quick question, what is your read on VE? What was your read on VE on D1? A couple of words is enough. | ||
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On September 25 2013 06:27 FirmTofu wrote: Town, for now. I thought he was scum on Day 1, but his contributions since then have been extremely strong. My read has changed. Interesting. Because Sentinel brought up a very good point. This is what you said about him: Later, he switched to Yamato, who is now basically confirmed town barring crazy shenanigans. No real reasoning provided for this vote switch. Just decides Umasi isn't going to gain steam so decides to vote someone else. The bolded part. How can you bring this up against him on D2? This happened on D1, there were a lot of players suspicious of yamato at that time. Sentinel in fact did bring up his suspicions on yamato earlier on in his posts. Why do you never bring up VE as scummy on D1? Because to me this looks like that you have picked up a player and then start finding out reasons why he is scum. What exactly are VE's "extremely strong" contributions after D1? I feel like his contributions have been even more weak than on D1... | ||
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On September 25 2013 06:41 marvellosity wrote: rayn, FIrm did bring up VE, in more than one post he mentioned him as scummy. Unlike you to miss such a thing. Yes, at the start of the game, never after this: I don't like voting when there is still information to read. While VE is my strongest scum read at page 40, he may not be at page 58. Which is apparently @ page 40. Then FT does not come back before the lynch. This is his next mention about VE: Then we have people like VayneAuthority, kush, and VE. These are people that are capable of strong town games, but are currently either just trolling or posting with a subdued interest. I would say that this group of people becomes more easy to read as the game progresses, hence they aren't the best vig shots. And now VE has apparently made some extremely strong contributions. I want to know why his read on VE has changed. | ||
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On September 25 2013 06:48 FirmTofu wrote: @rayn I had only read to page 40 when I had a scum read on VE. So my read changed after page 40, not after Day 1. AND I JUST PROVED YOU WRONG! ##Unvote: ##Vote: FirmTofu | ||
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On September 25 2013 06:52 FirmTofu wrote: If you want me to quote some posts I liked, I can. Seems like a waste of time, though. VE is in no danger of getting lynched today. We should be discussing scum. Please do. yamato: That's not what Sentinel is saying. He said your case on CR and what marv said about him made him look into CR and after doing so he thought CR was the best lynch. | ||
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On September 25 2013 07:00 yamato77 wrote: Really? I'm pretty sure that's not what he said. Yeah you are right. I somehow messed up with merv telling him to take a look at Coag's games. | ||
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On September 25 2013 07:04 FirmTofu wrote: For Rayn: Posts like these, where he is playing proactively and trying to actively assess the value of the lynch at hand made me think VE is town. He didn't have to do this, but he did. It feels like he's genuinely trying to find scum. So in total of 6 minutes VE finds the game and reads it? You straight up buy it? I don't even need to look into any game of LoneMeow to come into a conclusion that he has 100% sure been more involved in the discussion. You can lynch me straight away if that's not true. | ||
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On September 25 2013 07:04 FirmTofu wrote: For Rayn: Posts like these, where he is playing proactively and trying to actively assess the value of the lynch at hand made me think VE is town. He didn't have to do this, but he did. It feels like he's genuinely trying to find scum. Bullshit FirmTofu! Bullshit! VE posted these things BEFORE YOU HAD A SCUMREAD ON HIM! Therefore it can't be a reason for your townread on him. | ||
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You are making yourself incredibly hard to read by doing this. EVERYONE DON'T FUCKING POST IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE FULL THREAD! /end rant FirmTofu. My point still stands. How does that make VE look town? How is that a good contribution? And still, you labeled VE -- on N1 -- in "people that are capable of strong town games, but are currently either just trolling or posting with a subdued interest". Doesn't sound like a town read to me. + the fact that your only scumread on D1 was apparently based on nothing but false information. You had zero scumreads on D1. Oh yeah, you had the DP scumread that was bullshit. Weak. | ||
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On September 25 2013 07:39 FirmTofu wrote: I'll try not to post when I still catching up in the future. If you don't think those posts make VE look town, I can't help you. I already explained how I thought they made him look town, so you can just try to follow my thought process in that department. Also, why would I make so many read changes as scum and just invite all these accusations? Wouldn't a scum FirmTofu just tunnel VE and DP because then he would remain consistent? What you are saying is that I played badly. Okay. I can accept that. How does that make me scum though? No i am saying your reasons for thinking VE is town are extremely weak and your posts from N1 don't indicate you thought VE is town and now you are saying you thought he was town on N1. That's my point. | ||
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NP. I know like 80% of players do exactly what you do. I have personal issues towards that kinda actions from people. Nothing to be sorry about, i am jsut generally mad because of wasted time that could have been used productively by me. | ||
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On September 25 2013 07:46 FirmTofu wrote: Okay, maybe they are weak. Is town FirmTofu incapable of making weak arguments? I don't see how you automatically arrive at the conclusion that I must be scum because I made a weak argument. I should have been more clear. This: "your posts from N1 don't indicate you thought VE is town and now you are saying you thought he was town on N1" | ||
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I'm gonna make coffee and let's talk. | ||
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##Unvote: FirmTofu ##Vote: Cephiro I liked FirmTofu's responses to me. There are a couple of things that bother me still. 1) His weird contradiction in his read on VE -- in N1 (i talked about it), which he hasn't explain. 2) His list. Especially the "tier 1" which seems to be based only on "these people have accused me" besides Umasi and Zaragon. Anyways, i don't see scum!FT defend Mattchew like he did as either alignment. That being said. I am done with Cephiro. Every single post he makes ends up with "i am soon caught up, then i will prove my towniness and find scum!" and every time he fails to deliver anything at all. He's scum. I don't like Mattchew being scum any more. There were some things in his response that are bad, some things that are good, but the thing that struck me was his response about Stutters. He said "i was trying to make other people talk about Stutters". That to me struck as townie as fuck. In case Stutters is town, that's what scum!Mattchew would want to do, but not what he would want to tell people afterwards. In case Stutters is scum, that's not what scum!Mattchew would want to do (if he wanted to bus he would want credit from that bus instead). Of course he could be lying or he could be really good as scum, but besides that i don't see that response coming from scum. Next, lemme look at Pandain and JAT. | ||
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I have never played with him before so i have no idea what he does as town or scum. I think he is supposed to be a good player no? If he is, lynch. | ||
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On September 25 2013 20:04 marvellosity wrote: justanothertownie? This is a pure meta post. His Titanic (town) filter for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720&user=justanothertownie Going to spoiler it because it'll probably involve a lot of quotes and not a lot of me saying anything :p + Show Spoiler + Here's his suspicions from the first few pages of Titanic: Titanic Mafia Is justanothertownie a suspicious little townie? On July 27 2013 20:13 justanothertownie wrote: Hey guys, just caught up. First impressions: I don't like Paperscraps. First he joins the lurker discussion without adding any content, then he starts to jump on exarezee without any good reason (I'm not really convinced that it was just a joke) and when he gets a little heat for it he totally backs off. I really hate this: So this is not serious at all? Add to this how he didn't post anything since he noticed people getting suspicious. To me he is the scummiest player so far. Also I'm annoyed by CJS. Going through his filter I can't find anything valuable - he just didn't say anything until this point (apart from fluff). This is jat's very first post. He already has a scumread on Paperscraps, and he's suspicious of CJS. On July 28 2013 01:51 justanothertownie wrote: Oats is really doing his best in this regard... So, oats which part of your case do you want me to adress? As for scumreads: Paper still looks scummy to me for the same reasons i mentioned before. You start to look scummy to me because you are killing town atmosphere and keeping tunneling me with that joke of a case. I don't have any other scumreads as of yet. There are plenty of people who didn't contribute nearly enough to really judge them based on their posts. Paperscraps scummy, hz starting to be scummy. On July 28 2013 01:57 justanothertownie wrote: Sigh. Because you try to make it look like you are really contributing and scumhunting while you just repeat the same things all over again without bringing any good points. Let's just assume i was not in the game - who would you want to lynch? Oats' tunnel on jat is scummy. On July 28 2013 20:43 justanothertownie wrote: Yes, my read on you was justifiable at that point but where do you see a lot of posts that would indicate this? Sounds weird to me. I would love to lynch VA for his attitude towards the game but if he always plays like this then there is nothing about him that indicates any alignment. But I would like to know why Vayne thinks Oats voting Tofu is good? Also I'm still not content with Koshis explanation of his reads. So you actually don't have any scumread anymore besides the troll and the lurkers? For now I still think Paper is a good lynch. His reads do not impress me. What? Please explain this. I don't know if we read the posts of the same person... Yeah, that's because you both don't have any real scumreads.... or do you really think Vivax is scum? Or that I am? ##Vote: Paperscraps Jat is also suspicious of Koshi. On July 29 2013 09:19 justanothertownie wrote: fml... I really have to reevaluate most of my reads now. I will do so tomorrow. Vivax doesn't look good for this unvote btw. Can't see a good town reason to do it but scum could try to get town cred. Vivax is suspicous. On July 29 2013 19:34 justanothertownie wrote: But to answer your question: gut-wise and without thinking it through very well the 4 persons I would probably lynch are: koshi, hzflank, maybe stutters/vayne and you Take this with a grain of salt. Suspicious of lots of people. On July 30 2013 08:23 justanothertownie wrote: So, I thought about it and I came to the conclusion that you are absolutely right, hz. Koshi and you are not both scum - it's just you. If I had read Koshis case on you closely before I posted this 4 lynch candidates I wouldn't have put him in there. His case against you makes a shitton of sense and I can and will add content to that shortly. I underestimated Koshi because I read a game he played in where his play was extremely weird and because of his lazy play (lynch-lists with only lurkers) D1. Koshi suspicious. On July 31 2013 03:06 justanothertownie wrote: First there is Tofu who I still don't like (still think he is scum) but to be fair I have to look into what happened last night again before I am 100% content saying he is scum. The same goes for hzflank (in his case there is even more new information to consider). Besides there is this clarity thing. Depends totally on my idea to be correct though. I also have to look into vayne again but currently I have no opinion on him. Firm and hzflank suspicious. Answer to question: yes, yes he is. TL Mafia LXII is jat a suspicious little townie? On September 22 2013 00:07 justanothertownie wrote: Hi guys... Mocsta do you think Koshi is town or scum? Btw. if anybody wants me to comment on something specific feel free to point me to it. Included this just as a comparison to Titanic. On September 23 2013 10:32 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, this is where I stand: LoneMeow: I can see him being discouraged town. The only thing I really don't like is how he just left after voting himself. He is definitely not dumb and knows that this is horrible. But I don't see how it really makes sense as scum either. Ray: I don't get this guy. His posting is extremely unintuitive but he obviously posted like this in his last game, too. I am struggling to form an opinion on him. FirmTofu: This looks so unbelievable to me. There are 2 possibilities (I don't buy his explanation): (1) He is town and to proud to admit he made a mistake. (2) He is scum trying to cover up inconsistencies. He had this weird discussion with DP and he walked us through him reading the thread for a while (a good way to seem active and invested without necessarily doing too much of value). Then he just disappeared. If I was in his shoes and my time was limited I would try to catch up to the thread asap and not comment on things (without presenting some sort of critical information) that happened ages ago and I especially wouldn't try to discuss those comments with people instead of reading the rest of the thread. Of those 3 people I like this lynch the most and I have to vote someone now because I have to sleep. ##Vote: FirmTofu This is halfway down the third page of jat's filter, and is the first time I can find marked suspicion on anybody. And it's because he needs to vote someone before he sleeps. On September 24 2013 03:38 justanothertownie wrote: I still don't have very strong reads. There are a few people I am relatively confident are town but noone I am sure is scum. People that look bad and come to mind are FT (no improvement and the lynch doesn't make him look better), Risen (I have to admit I don't know this guy at all so maybe he is just a player who doesn't give a fuck at all? - really anti town though), kush (as you said he can do better we will see Day2). I am also slightly suspicious of Mocsta because of his voting behaviour yesterday and because he obviously has a quite strong townread on me (I mean there is nothing wrong with it but the last player who read me town strongly while nobody else did was scum). I wouldn't lynch him though. Ok, still suspicious of FT, Risen for being "anti-town", kush "can do better", and Mocsta "although I wouldn't lynch him". Bear in mind this post was prompted by rayn, not given voluntarily. On September 25 2013 09:17 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, I read his filter again and your case. Still the same feeling about it. Sounds logical - guy might be scum. Is it compelling enough to convince me 100%? No, it is not. On the other hand Mattchews reaction to the case is pretty damning in my eyes. He doesn't even try to defend himself or present better targets. Has to be shat on to give a scumread on Mattchew. Originally I read how he posted around here as town, but now, meh. Answer to question: no, it really doesn't look like it. jat never attempts to engage or develop his read on his only other main scumread, Firm, either. Justanothertownie: Thanks for the Titanic compilation, that was what i was supposed to look for today. Remember my read on JAT earlier? It was "angry". It's the odd feeling i got from him in comparsion to Titanic (yeah i thought at some point he was scum in Titanic, but i had never played with him before that). You are right marv, he is very different here in comparsion to this game. Things i especially don't like: 1) His repeatedly saying "if you got questions to me, go ahead and ask". This does not necessarily make him scum but he's not being proactive, and in Titanic he was proactive. 2) His comeback in thread on D2. First there is this: On September 25 2013 01:18 justanothertownie wrote: ... I'm catching up right now. Open for questions as usal. Whe he has caught up this is ALL he has to say: On September 25 2013 02:50 justanothertownie wrote: Risen, as far as I understand the set up there are no goons. We have 6 scummers and the possible roles are RB, GF and Framer. We also had only one player claiming roleblock (as far as I have seen). I think it is pretty reasonable to assume there are Framer/GF maybe even more than one per role. Stupid comment to Risen. On September 25 2013 04:25 justanothertownie wrote: Wow, how come there is nothing going on right now? Kush I am eagerly awaiting your announced contribution. Also I would like to know yamatos, geripts, sentinels, marvs, rayns and kushs current opinion on FT if you have the time (not only because they were on rays wagon but for various different reasons). I mean everyone elses comments are welcome too but the opinions of those people are especially interesting to me. Apart from that - I'm getting tired of saying this but if you want me to contribute so you can read me ask me stuff... I am currently struggling to find useful things to say. I will be here for several hours reading the thread and occasionally a filter. Doesn't seem right to me.. | ||
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I have no idea what he is. What do you make from his answers to me? | ||
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On September 25 2013 12:23 Pandain wrote: Also Rayn, for someone who posts about everything, you've been strangely ignoring Mattchew. Reasoning? One thing is for sure. This guy is not reading the thread with attention or if he is he is scum. | ||
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On September 25 2013 21:19 yamato77 wrote: This is wrong and dumb. VE wasn't a good shot because he did nothing until today. Marv has been passed over for NK many times. I've been shot before him in Les Mafia. WoS was clearly town, and BH was a replacement with the possibility of being good for town (maybe). Saying VE/Marv are worth looking into because they are alive is stupid. That's right. Even i have been shot before marv in at least one game (Basterd mini). In Sicilian marv was what.. endgamed? I dunno, while this could have some merit (i don't mean VE/marv scum -- but about the "vets" in general) to me this seems like an attempt to turn certain people against each other. | ||
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On September 25 2013 21:26 Mocsta wrote: Below is a Ctrl+F "stutters" of Mattchew filter. This ties back to the original. No where does it even state why Stutters is a person of interest. Further, he asks Mocsta, Marv , DP + Yamato for an opinion on stutters. Yet he only asks me after I derailed him on chariman ray... and marv + Yamato are on his proposed scum team... like wtf? Doesn't hold water Rayn. What Mocsta? In every post of those he asks people's opinion of Stutters. Strong people's, no? | ||
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On September 25 2013 21:32 Mocsta wrote: Ask them an opinion based on what fucking foundation? Do you even KNOW why he thinks stutters is a candidate to look into? Fuck me.. yet IM a scum read? Stutters saying "lynch kush" and then saying "why lynch someone who gives us no information" later on. Mattchew does not clearly explain that but it's what i gather from his post you quoted. When have i said i think you are scum? | ||
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On September 25 2013 21:41 marvellosity wrote: Sentinel - Do you have any scumgames since Redux? Seems like the answer is no: Normal Mini Mafia I Town Medic Miller Killed Night 3 Hammer Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Survived Werewolves Invade Teamliquid II Mafia Vanilla Lynched Day 2 TL Mafia LII: JubJub Mafia Town Vanilla Killed Night 5 TL Mafia Area LIII Town Jailkeeper Lynched Day 6 Pick Your Power: Redux Mafia JOAT Lynched Day 1 Roulette Mini Mafia Town Vanilla Lynched Day 4 Nuclear Winter Mafia Town Barrack Obama Killed Night 4 Doctor Who Mafia Town Vanilla Survived Day 6 TL Mafia LVIII Town Vanilla Endgamed Day 3 Smurf Mini Mafia Town Miller Lynched Day 4 | ||
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On September 25 2013 21:44 Mocsta wrote: Anyways, I asked for a replacement. Treat my fillin as confirmed town will you K thnx, bye. ............ | ||
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On September 25 2013 21:45 marvellosity wrote: I'm well aware of this list, why do you think I'm asking? The database isn't that up to date. The last game in the database is Aperture. After that there is Golden Sun (where Sentinel is not playing) and this game. | ||
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On September 25 2013 21:46 Mocsta wrote: I havent quit.. fuck.. i learnt my lesson in GoT.. jeez louise. Guess it was a joke in poor taste. Just wanted to throw out confirmed town. Well it doesn't prove your towniness. Can you look at marv's list and tell what you think about those people? Mattchew is not here and me/marv/yamato have given our opinions already. | ||
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On September 25 2013 21:56 Mocsta wrote: List on what? I dont like pandain at all, never have. Cephiro im against, feels like a lurker lynch. and even if he is scum i think hes being pushed for the wrong reasons. theres 5 others guys, surely they can be found over him. JAT, i filter dived and personally I like him and dont have a problem he wants to be asked where to focus.. i mean, if he was scum.. and mattchew is town (which is what marv is proposing).. jat shoulda jumped all over the mattchew lynch as it was a free ride What do you think about what i said about Cephiro? And didn't JAT jump on the Mattchew lynch a while ago? | ||
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On September 25 2013 22:09 Mocsta wrote: [/b]If by Cephiro you mean this I already said it. Its a lurker lynch.. activity isnt a metric for scum. I dont care for that lynch and will not support it at all for this cycle. but I am only 1 vote of 26. As for JAT, he joined because I kept pressuring him to take a stance. I will admit its odd that he said the case was logical, but would not vote.. but then, yam had the same reaction too. Like i said, i dont have a problem with him, i haven't read titantic, and dont plan to either. The thing with Cephiro is not that he is lurking. It's that he promises something in every post of his and then doesn't deliver. Did you look at marv's post about JAT? There are some relevant quotes from JAT in Titanic. | ||
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On September 25 2013 22:11 marvellosity wrote: Alright, for the people in the thread, and anyone else. Let's play a little game. Open Pandain's filter and try to find coherent suspicions on people. Things I've found: Suspicious of FT, but mysteriously doesn't want to lynch him today, but wants to lynch him later Was suspicious of Sentinel, now less so. I literally cannot find anyone he currently wants to lynch right now. Gogogo! +1 ##Unvote: ##Vote: Pandain | ||
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D1: Sentinel, doesn't push the lynch at all. D2: I would check Shutters, LM, Marv, Rayn, and Mattchew for likely scum. I'm probably going to vote and push for Stutters tomorrow as I think he's actually the best vote choice above Mattchew and Sentinel. Then, about Stutters: "I feel bad because he's probably genuinely sick so I don't know if I want to give him more time. " -- Sounds like a real push. Votes for marv, why? No mention about others. Oh, but Mattchew was "not the best lynch" or "not necessarily scum". To be exact: Definitely feel we can find someone better than Mattchew, that's my goal for tommorow. | ||
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On September 25 2013 22:46 justanothertownie wrote: I am here for like an hour before I have to travel. First: The case on me is just pure meta, no? And you are deliberately using ONLY my very first game on this site where I played horribly. Marv I directed you to look at my last game which is a newbie game and you will see parallels to this game. It weirds me out you did obviously not do that or if you did you did not feel the need to include it in your case. I am pretty sure this is also the game where OO got his read on me. The problem is you did not play horribly in Titanic. Compared to this game your play in Titanic was far better. | ||
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That's fucking awful.. | ||
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On September 25 2013 23:07 marvellosity wrote: This is kinda odd, I'd agree. I'm not used to rayn agreeing with me a lot. I agree with you when i think you are right. | ||
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On September 25 2013 23:13 marvellosity wrote: Wanna explain it to me so I can fool you as mafia in a later game? Well unless you are fooling me this game: :p When you are town you (at last) on D2 take a town leader position. By this i mean you have far more confindence in your posts than you do as scum. When you are scum your cases are mostly -- especially if your scumbuddy is in danger of getting lynched -- "I don't feel this lynch (for reason XYZ - usually "give more time to him or something, you are not really defending anyone"), how about we lynch this guy (usually useless or bad town) instead?". You have far less confidence in your reads and you are more just "going on with the game silently pushing town into wrong direction" rather than being analytical and talking about what YOU want to talk about. | ||
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On September 25 2013 23:20 justanothertownie wrote: Since you are so keen about me posting everything I think about this game. I don't like rayn at all atm. This is not his usual thread presence. He doesn't go around declaring people to be 100% town. As town he always does this. Especially with Koshi. Here he goes after him instead. Like I said he is sheeping you instead of headbutting walls to get his own lynches and opinions through. I can't imagine this to be caused by the size of the game only. Why the fuck should i declare Koshi is town when i don't think he is town? | ||
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On September 25 2013 23:21 justanothertownie wrote: Add to this how he throws dirt on me without any explanation about how the things I said are scummy. If you are unable to read my post i can't help you. I pretty clearly explained why i think the things you have done are scummy.. | ||
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On September 25 2013 23:24 marvellosity wrote: I don't think he's talking about Koshi specifically. Normally you throw around "certain" reads like candy as town. Yeah, for people i think are town. I don't think there are many people who are "definitely town" in this game. ObviousOne, yamato, marv, Coag. There is it. Oh yeah and SnB. | ||
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On September 25 2013 23:34 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, I get most of those reads. Why is ObviousOne definitely town? I explained that on D1. I even called him a "certain" read.. | ||
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On September 25 2013 23:41 justanothertownie wrote: I don't find the post you explained this read. sry it was on N1: I also strongly disagree with you on OO. Usually in games i could flip a coin and that would tell me OO's alignment more accurately than me trying to read his posts and figure out his alignment. I don't think i have ever been right on him when i have been town, every time i call him town he ends up being scum and vice versa. Me even being able to have a townread on him (and having confidence in it) is why for me he is town. When he has been talking he has been talking about stuff he has imo been talking about important stuff and mirroresd my thoughts pretty well. I don't understand where you get this "Hi guys, I'm here and reading and am townie just like you!" thing. Could you elaborate more on that? | ||
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He doesn't seem to give a fuck about this game and that makes me think he's scum. In his recent games he has been town/3p and he has given fucks about the game. | ||
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On September 26 2013 02:52 Pandain wrote: Why have you not pushed for Koshi day two? You are clearly confident he's scum. You have not even been attempting to push him or generate discussion. This conflicts with your general town play to root out scum. I would also like you to exactly explain this, as this reasoning is bullshit and I think you made it up to put suspicion on me. Explain your thought process and reasoning on this in its entirety. It doesn't make sense. I have not pushed Koshi because i don't think he is necessarily scum. I have explained this already on N1. Also i have explained why -- even if i thought he is scum -- i would not push him on D2. Another thing that makes me think you are scum, you are clearly not reading the thread. About Sentinel. Are you saying you really did oush his lynch? Because to me it didn't look like it. About D2 lynch candidates, the people you have even mentioned from your list of scummy people are Stutters and Mattchew. You said you don't want to lynch Mattchew. You said you will be pushing Stutters, then, in the same post you say "I feel bad because he's probably genuinely sick so I don't know if I want to give him more time". Do you think this is going feel very threathening push to Stutters if he is mafia? | ||
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On September 26 2013 03:15 Pandain wrote: Rayn your posting honestly annoys me. I was going off of your recent post which says you don't think he's town. You also said that if he played more passive you would look at him today. He is playing passive. What do you think of him now? And me giving a caveat isn't real good analysis. You think I wasn't accusing Stutters in that post? Really? I am saying i will be giving him this day, because he said he is in a seminaire or smth and can't post much. His posting on N1 felt much more townier than D1. I am not saying he is town, i am not saying he is scum. I don't know what he is atm. Even if he is scum there are 5 other scum to find. Me pushing Koshi lynch does not serve any purpose because he can't even respond properly. I will have much better read on him if i let him do what he wants and judge him for it. I am saying your Stutters push is ridiculous because you say you are going to push his lynch and in the same post you say you might be willing to give him more time. That's not confident. If you are not confident you will never get anyone lynched. I would assume you are good enough player to know that. Are you? Or why are you giving an unconfident image of yourself to your lynch target in the first place? Can you explain that? | ||
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On September 26 2013 04:49 Koshi wrote: Your vote on Pandain was as bad as your vote on CR. You didn't explain why Pandain was wrong. Not a little bit. You haven't posted anything that was going to help town achieve their wincon at the same time you posted it. Your read on JAT is the dumbest thing ever. I don't even know what it is with you and JAT tbh. It's horrendous. Your only 100% give aways were on general reads. Your push on me was not raynlike. You letting go of your push on me was not raynlike. That's maybe some things others can easily see. But fact is I know you are scum. What's wrong with my vote on Pandain? I don't understand. What's dumb about my read on JAT? I don't understand. We already talked about this, you said in the end that this does not make me scum. How does it make me scum again? | ||
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Mr.CC you are switching from Pandain to LoneMeow. Why? VE is don't see you ever mention LM as scummy. Explain your vote. | ||
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On September 26 2013 05:24 Pandain wrote: Rayn some questions while I write about you: 1. Why do you think I'm a better lynch than others. Please simply explain. 2. Who do you think is scum right now. If you can choose only 6. 1. I am not sure if you are the best lynch candidate. Could you answer my post where i ask you about your stutters vote? 2. I am not going to choose any 6 people. That's stupid. | ||
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On September 26 2013 05:29 Pandain wrote: Rayne, I'll make a case. 1. You didn't stop spamming like you said you would pre-game. Of course if you hit scum, you would be likely to continue your previous play which is spam + rampant accusations. Indicates scum. 2. You ask too many questions and don't contribute enough. Most of your activity is actually questions. Your case on Kush is too weak for me to find you completely genuine. Koshi did the same in Golden, you know this as well as I do. Looks like you're just trying to find something where there's not. Koshi's response was perfectly logical. And you keep going and going, and I get the impression in your head that everything Koshi is doing hints scum to you. Then you suddenly switch and say he's not a good lynch unless he plays super passive, which he does and then you still don't do anything. "DEFINITELY NOT WORTH TO BE DISCUSSED" But he didn't until like 10 hours before lynch. Why aren't you pushing him. This isn't the same mindset you had in Golden Sun or espoused before. This is a clear lie and only makes sense if you had a mindset to bullshit from the start. AKA indicates that you're posting rapidly and not thinking, but you were clearly confident enough to vote me. All in all they're all small details except for the spamming and the questions, which you do in town anyway. I would include you as one of my scum reads but its not certain and I'm more confident in VE, and even note his recent throwaway bullshit vote. VE as an active player does not throw away bullshit votes without real explanation. I will now quickly go and analyze VE. Your case is (1) really bad and (2) about something we are not supposed to discuss (and btw bad). | ||
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On September 26 2013 05:33 Pandain wrote: I assume you already realize that lynching me is dumb. Your concern about my Stutters vote is that I'm not confident enough? Do I need to respond to that? Yes i would really like you to explain why are you not confident on people you are about to push being scum. | ||
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On September 26 2013 05:37 VisceraEyes wrote: As far as I know, the lynch was never limited to Cephiro and FT. Sentinel is still an option, I'm now on the table for some, but for some reason LM chose FT between FT and Cephiro. So? How does it make him scum? | ||
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On September 26 2013 06:17 yamato77 wrote: Because big games are a clusterfuck. I'm voting Cephiro, BTW. Out of all the lurky fucks who are useless, I think he's the one who could be much more useful if he was actually town. Yeah. ##Unvote: ##Vote: Cephiro | ||
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JAT are you here? I forgot something earlier. | ||
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On September 26 2013 08:10 Koshi wrote: Roleclaim. me, why? | ||
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Imagine you can lynch anyone you want at this point. Make a post with 3 lynch targets who are most likely to flip mafia and give reasons for them. Short, 3 lines at max. JAT and kush are lynchproof, you can't lynch them. | ||
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Copy paste your spreadsheet, now. | ||
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On September 26 2013 08:26 justanothertownie wrote: I did not update this since a long time. I don't care, i don't even care about the formatting, just copy paste it. | ||
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On September 26 2013 08:27 justanothertownie wrote: Why should I do it then? You don't believe I have one? If you have one i am pretty sure you are town. | ||
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not really hard. | ||
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second is ctrl+c | ||
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ctrl + c come here ctrl + v click post | ||
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Koshi get your vote off him. | ||
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On September 26 2013 08:40 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, if you insist. I see no reason why but I will do that. no don't do it, you'll probably get modkilled. | ||
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On September 26 2013 08:41 Koshi wrote: WAIT is that allowed? And seriously. Some colored names is not what I expected. Who the fuck does not add text? I did not aswell expect that, that's why i asked. It's not impossible though. His post where he talks about the spreadsheet actually supports that. | ||
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On September 26 2013 08:45 iamperfection wrote: this note thing is retarded without actual notes he could have done this in 5 min anyway. This is meaningless discussion. yeah. | ||
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it would. i still would not believe you are mafia. | ||
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On September 26 2013 08:51 justanothertownie wrote: Man you had me scared there with the modkill... I have no idea why I would be modkilled for this reading the rules. I was under impression you can't post screenshots because usually in games it could confirm masons etc.. | ||
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On September 26 2013 08:55 Zaragon wrote: I don't like how we've shifted off people who voted Chairman Ray. It's almost impossible for us not to find scum among those names, and we already know (most probably) yamato77 is town among those. I'd be ok to vote Rayn, Sentinel, or geript, even if they vary very much in scumminess for me (I wrote them in order) and get information, but obviously I want FT more. To me both the most likely to flip scum and the biggest yield of information. Why should we dismiss the very real possibility of a scum panic situation that reveals several likely scum for a minor player without many links to anyone? Is he really that much more scum than anyone with day 1 vote that would prove significant for the coming day? Someone who voted LM feels considerably less relevant when we don't know LM's alignment as certainly as Chairman Ray's--that includes LM himself That's where I'm at. I've been unable to focus on the game, so I'm questioning myself, but I'll go with my reads, logic and gut as they've been; they were clear Instead of wanting to lynch FT for information and only for information could you tell us why he is mafia? | ||
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I am going to ignore FirmTofu and Koshi for now on until they do something else than call me scum for reasons that are 100% wrong... Or actually, i could probably lynch FirmTofu. | ||
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On September 26 2013 18:37 marvellosity wrote: The timestamps are significantly different in between those 2 posts you've done jack shit. rayn: it's manufactured and over the top. like every single one of his posts. I thought in Aperture every single one of his posts was manufactured. I don't know if there is a difference or not between his posting in these two games. Anyways it's irrelevant because i'm gonna vote for him either way tomorrow. | ||
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On September 26 2013 18:40 Mocsta wrote: he wasnt getting lynched look what i posted at the same time he claimed i was paying careful attention to the counts.. my downfall was that i expected the same of everyone else i agree dec/ve comments are odd. but if u working off cephiro is scum, then there must be scum on the wagon BEFORE the claim | | \/ guess what mattchew coag oo ceph stutters iamp ceph can be treated in isolation but hey look... its my man stuttetrs lynch this guy with fire Mocsta. Why are people who voted for LoneMeow before the claim more suspicious then people who voted for him after the claim. You yourself said he wasn't gonna get lynched. We don't know Cephiro's alignment for sure. What makes those people suspicious? In my opinion people who voted for LM after his claim are far more suspicious than those who voted for him before. If we look only at the votes. Because, for real, nobody should have voted for him after the claim. | ||
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On September 26 2013 12:26 Pandain wrote: raynpelikoneet Scum I've posted before while he looks scum. Weak analysis of me, no real focusing of people, just agreement. Contrasts with his town play in Golden Sun mafia. Notice only person he proactively pushed is Koshi, who he stopped pushing eventually anyway. Despite vote being so close, left two hours before, doesn't make sense for super-active-mafia loving Rayn. Posts like this are bad. Why Not just bad play, scum play You too. If you can't understand the differences in my play when i am playing a big game or a mini game then there is nothing i can do but to say you are wrong. Read my filter in Aperture and if you still think that there is something to discuss then come back. You are recycling arguments from Koshi & FirmTofu and they are wrong. I am sorry i needed to go to bed when i posted my last time. I thought Cephiro was the best lynch and i wanted marv's opinion because he was pushing the case. In case he would have pushed another case with yamato i wouldn't want to waste my vote as i was not able to be here at the deadline. Why the fuck me agreeingwith my townreads make me scum? Should i have voted for someone like you? I thought you were the best lynch yesterday. | ||
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marv everyone else | ||
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On September 26 2013 20:30 ObviousOne wrote: APPEAL TO EGO CLEARLY SCUM Do you agree with my top 6 choices for scum or have thoughts on them or would you like to join them? I would like to join them. No but seriously, lemme take a look at it. | ||
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geript - I don't think he is scum. Lately he has been trolling as town which is fucking unfortunate because he is really good as town when he wants to be. Useless but i'd say town. Mr. Cheesecake - I have no idea. On D1 i thought he was town, but i am not so sure any more. Didn't do anything i remember on D2. Null. kushm4sta - the fact that he has made some analysis and opened some filters and looked into people's past games makes him town. kush does not do that as scum. Cephiro - Absolutely scum. Lynch with fire. Stutters695 - I have seen 2 scumgames with Stutters. One was Basters where he buddied me and played really well. Another on was Titanic where everything he did was vote for someone or asked "why am i scum Oats?". Looks like Titanic here. I need to check his towngames because if i remember correctly he's usually pretty useless as town aswell. Leaning scum. | ||
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On September 26 2013 20:39 marvellosity wrote: Pretty sure they aren't all mafia. Can you talk to me about rayn in a fashion that I'll understand? Do you not buy his "i play differently in large games" thing? You think Mocsta pulled all that shit as mafia? I am interested, do you "buy" it? Have you looked at my play in Aperture where i sheeped Clarity all game because people were either too hard to read or too bad. | ||
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Now, if you are town, look at this from my perspective. Wtf am i supposed to do? Am i supposed to call you town just because? Why? I thought you were scum. Then you upped your play on N1, now you are back to this tunnel shit because of no fucking reason. Are you scum, for real? I could see you doing this as scum. Play purposely like shit just to justify your tunnel on me after that the whole fucking game and you look good for strong townies because you are not afraid to attack me. Stop this fucking bullshit and make a decent case if you think i am scum. Otherwise i will lynch you, because if you do not make a case or stop it you are scum. | ||
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D1 start. Fucking clueless as mafia. Then he gets accused. Then this happens (from GoT scum QT): + Show Spoiler + raynpelikoneet 08-08-2013 06:20 PM ET (US) You can accuse fellow mafians if you have a "good" reason to. We are good enough to defend ourselves. Just do not make an idiot out of yourself by stupid stuff, that gets you policy lynched. For example, if there is anything that contradicts with your mindset in me, ask me questions. Be aggressive towards me. I do not mind, i can defend myself. You need to interact with your scumbuddies aswell, because we will lose member(s) at some point and you look terrible if you do not talk about your scumbuddies at all. Especially now when you are "under attack", even if you make a case on scum, you have no credit. There is no harm, IF YOUR CASE IS BELIEVEABLE from town pov. It does not have to be right, it has to be so that you look town. If you dunno how to do that, attack suspicious townies instead. :D 126 raynpelikoneet 08-08-2013 06:15 PM ET (US) Do not afk. That´s the worst thing you can do. I´m gonna push a lynch on a lurker if necessay (FT, Risen looks really bad, nachodude, Sharrant, etc.) Just remember this: Keep track of where your town!mind is. What are your "intentions", who do you think is mafia, what has your game plan been, who does oppose your game plan and "what that might mean". You are ok if you follow these things, whether or not you are right. 125 Koshi 08-08-2013 06:08 PM ET (US) How do I enter the thread now? Or do I keep afk? 124 Koshi 08-08-2013 06:07 PM ET (US) Ok, then I hold it back for when people ask me questions. I can trow Clarity under the bus at the same time because he soft defended OAts twice already and FoS me with a silly reason. 123 raynpelikoneet 08-08-2013 06:05 PM ET (US) TLDR; It does not matter who you accuse, but keep your story straight. 122 raynpelikoneet 08-08-2013 06:04 PM ET (US) I dunno. Seems like a forced case to me (going MIA is not a scumtell). Keeping house names secret might be, if you can convince other people that is the right thing to do (revealing them), how did you act on th ebeginning regarding that? Did you immediately reveal house names? If you didn´t, why is Oats scum because of that for you? Having no scumreads and living happily ever after in his house might be scummy, it also might be that he genuinely thought everyone is town. How do you "prove" that? Make a case if you think it´s gonna be good enough, but think about what you say. 121 Koshi 08-08-2013 05:58 PM ET (US) Could I make a case around Oats? Or do people see him as town? He is asleep atm so he can't retaliate for a couple of hours. My case would be around the fact that in the first 6 hours he prevented scumhunting by trying to keep house names a secret, while when I tried to create a better atmosphere to scumhunt he shot me down asking silly questions (page 20 pages long when there were only 6 pages) or him blaming me for having no scumreads while he was only sharing townreads based on "friendly and shit". When SnB came in saying that there were some problems in their House, Oats suddenly went MIA. Except that now he does not need anyone to tell that because i even put that in thread for DP on D1. What does Koshi do? This: + Show Spoiler + On August 12 2013 22:21 Koshi wrote: If I ever host a game it will have a minimum 10 posts a day rule. Or maybe next game I play in I will start a policy that you need to make 10 posts a day otherwise you get lynched. If you are town and you don't post 10 times you just fail at life and at this game. Always the same people talking and I can't read any of them, except give them a town read... EXCEPT I have such a problem with this post. Like which stupid vigi is going to use his shot on a guy that has almost no hp? 6 Lords should have killed gumshoe and if gumshoe was still alive at the end of the day he should have been checked by a Lord on n2. Or even n1 like iamp did but then it is VERY suspicious that after the 1 hp check on gumshoe, gumshoe dies. The chance that scum spent a part or all their KP on is 0%. The only reason scum would target gum is if they knew he was blue or they knew he had 1 hp and gambled blue. So if there was a vigi he would have shot a target on the list but not the first 2 because his shot could be less effective. I think iamp is scum. Just because of this post and the fact he used the hp check. If iamp is not scum there is scum hiding in his House and I do not see how iamp does not see this. On top of that the whole FTofu lynch felt wrong. Just like FTofu said, there were worse lurkers than him, or atleast equally worse. There was no case on FT except "the wagon of justice is here yabababababa." Then the vote on yamato from iamp was without case as well. I (Koshi) completely would have also voted yamato after a redclaim obviously but I wouldn't have shot down Oats trying to talk about it. Or at least give some sort of argument to Oats why Yamato is scum except for the redcheck. yamato could be scum in iamp his will. While the explanation to why he is scum also has a townread in it. In iamp his last will Vivax is his strongest scumread. While Vivax has been iamps strongest scumread this entire game, iamp has decided during the lynch only Vivax should be spared and FT should be lynched. The scumreason for this is if you get a town Vivax lynched you look extremely scummy, while discrediting Vivax the entire game till somebody else lynches him is way better. Also, I am a townread from iamp. That's all friendly and shit but why do I get a feeling I am getting set up for gettting lynched when it is lylo/mylo. Just like last game... PS: the friendly and shit is a *wink* at Oats who I now consider town if yamato flips scum. If Yamato flips towns this was all for nothing and Oats can be lynched. He makes a conspiracy theory that is so stupid everyone thinks he is clueless town and genuinely believes in that. He sticks with it until iamp dies but the townread stays after that. This is EXACTLY what Koshi is doing this game. Except that he has no case, BECAUSE HE CAN'T MAKE A FUCKING CASE! | ||
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You can't just say "no". Or, you can, but if you do you are either playing terribad or scum. | ||
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On August 31 2013 19:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Clarity who should i vote for? I have missed like everything because i went to smoke a cig yesterday and left my keys in and couldn't get back until an hour ago. :/ On July 02 2013 06:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: yeah, i'm ready to sheep marv. "rayn never sheeps". That point is debunked by two different games. Go find something else if you think i am scum. I would prefer if you tried to find scum instead if you are town. If you are scum, i have no problem with you attacking me because all you are doing is making false accusations. I'll get you lynched. | ||
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On September 26 2013 21:28 Koshi wrote: Aperture was indeed a strange game for you rayn. But you were consistent strange in that game. Not so much this game. Anyway it's cool. I might not get shot if you decide to fight back. wtf is this? Are you tunneling me because you don't wanna get shot? Is that what you are saying? weak man.. really weak. | ||
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On September 26 2013 22:04 Koshi wrote: Also, my game is not bad at all. Was on the 2 targets that weren't lynched and weren't blue. Told you guys to lynch VA and not shoot him. Totes right to doc yamato/BH. Poor WoS. I read his filter already a bit. Need to read more. Didn't find something like his awesome Grack read in Golden Sun. But didn't read the last pages yet. Who knows I might find a gem. Anyway. I just keep being awesome. If I start making cases I would be too awesome to contain. Yeah you should start making cases. I still dislike your D1 vote and want you to explain it. You voted for a guy you didn't even think is mafia. How was that good? | ||
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Was on the 2 targets that weren't lynched and weren't blue. That's an odd thing to say. Why are you proud of being on a target that was not lynched? | ||
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On September 26 2013 22:22 Koshi wrote: Proud on being not on a target that was blue. It's sad that I am not on the target that get lynched, but I was on the second wagon twice. I can't vote for all the other kids. And if people are not voting on a wagon because I am on that wagon, rofl. Your mindset is already really fishy. The way you present what i quoted screams "at least i didn't mislynch a blue". You don't say if people were scum/bad - people who actually were on that wagon. You cast doubt on people who were on a mislynch(es) but you are not telling clearly what that means. At the same time you excuse yourself from taking responsibility of any lynch. That's really scummy Koshi. On top of that, you still voted for a guy you didn't think is scum on D1. And you have yet to explain that vote. | ||
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On September 26 2013 22:24 Mocsta wrote: This is so wrong. Rayn. You just dropped GreyMist points. Firstly, I said LoneMeow was not getting lynched, *AFTER* lonemeow voted for cephiro, to make it lonemeow (7)? and Cephiro(9)? (numbers were not double checked). Secondly, if Cephiro *was* a scum lynch generated by Marv; it makes sense for scum to protect Cephrio by being on the counter wagon => LoneMeow. Thirdly, it then makes sense that scum would not have been early Cephiro votes; (late cephiro votes is possible though). Lastly, after my medic claim, both town/scum could have jumped on-board so its very hard to judge those votes. So like it goes back to; if marv is proposing that Cephiro is 99% scum; that there *must* be at least one scum on lonemeow to protect Cephiro. I made a case on Stutters way before this revelation; and lo and behold, stutters was a voter before that medic claim. Lynch Stutters with Fire Essentially, the votes post (my) medic-claim on lonemeow are in a vacuum, as scum/town could jump on that with no v Did you read my post after that one Mocsta? I did miss you said "assuming Cephiro is scum". I also said i get what you mean. What i don't understand is how it makes "after claim" -people less suspicious? When people started yelling "FAKECLAIM FAKECLAIM", it would be easy for scum to jump on LM without justification, even if they were hesitant to do so before, no? | ||
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On September 26 2013 22:28 marvellosity wrote: You effectively made the whole lynch meaningless. First day was screwed up by the hosting business, and then you removed some of the most valuable information we could have got from that lynch. This is the point. It's impossible to make analysis from the lynch because you ruined it Mocsta.. | ||
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On September 26 2013 22:40 Mocsta wrote: I haven't read Cephiro filter. (yet) - im not here for much longer, so prob wont do it till i wake up tomorrow. I have read Stutters filter, and i dont see how he can be town. Im not going to start a wagon next day (theres 0 chance of me being shot) cos im playing really bad. All i care about is that we lynch scum, so Im obviously comfortable with a stutters lynch. Okay so in your last post your reasoning for Stutters lynch was "because there has to be at least one scum to defend Cephiro". If Cephiro is town, then, by your definition Stutters is not surely scum. What gives? You are being really incoherent. Aside this, can you give your thoughts on Koshi and Mr.CC? | ||
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yes i did that. | ||
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On September 26 2013 22:54 Mocsta wrote: (1) I know my filter is large and diverse so I can excuse not seeing this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=205#4098 Its a case on Stutters, were I walk through my interpretation of his filter. Feel free to challenge on any points. (2) Koshi is really agitating with his reluctance to front a case on anyone, yet yell they are scum. Doesnt make him scum though. As I said before, im done reading today (not cycle.. day). I can add him to the queue (3) CC. im 50% through CC http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=206#4106 Do you realize you made that case on N2, when the information about the flip was already available? And you can't see what's wrong with that compared to your latest comment? | ||
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You are leaving it out even though it's in the first 2 pages. Mocsta Mocsta.. I am starting to think you are scum. | ||
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"lynch stutters" "lynch stutters (lol)" "stutters made some good posts, i think he is town" This is never explained. Don't you find it weird at all considering you have a strong scumread on him? | ||
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Stutters seemed pretty town to me at some point, I remember thinking "Stutters isn't being completely useless and bad, that's different, probably stepping it up as town". This is CC's last comment about Stutters. It's on page 3 in his filter. You have therefore read it if you are "half past" his filter. | ||
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On September 26 2013 23:14 Mocsta wrote: I dont recall reading that.. and if you want to know where i stopped. its where the last dot point is. Pretty weak attempts from you.. Why arent you debunking Stutters? I am not debunking Stutters because i think he is scum. | ||
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VE Mr.CC Mocsta Koshi FT Pandain Stutters Sentinel geript Mattchew ...if you find yourself in that list, shape the fuck up and start playing instead of fucking bullshit. Lynch Cephiro on D3. | ||
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On September 27 2013 02:02 Koshi wrote: I somewhat like VE his posts, but I really hate his reads this entire game. VE is scum. | ||
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On September 27 2013 02:35 marvellosity wrote: Then stop saying different things. "no-one was pushing their lynch" yamato (confirmed) and marv (pretty sure town) were pushing the same lynch. I understand you (or me, or anyone) making the wrong decision, but don't make it sound like you weren't given direction when you were This is a discussion that's not going anywhere because you are both discussing different things. | ||
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On September 27 2013 03:04 yamato77 wrote: Scum team has ~3 hours before I get home from class and name them all. MMVSPC ok? | ||
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On September 27 2013 03:07 Koshi wrote: Thought he was mafia spewing sarcastic reads in this thread while making sensible post in the scum QT. But I went back on that. I played with him in Aperture and now I see he is completely 100% fail as town. Recently he just said that he actually enjoys playing scum more than playing town. silly guy. This doesn't scream the confidence CC had while defending all his scumbuddies in aperture. Or himself. No what? CC bussed his teammates in Aperture. Look at his shit at Stutters. | ||
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Mocsta Mattchew VE Stutters Pandain Cheesydude . | ||
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Yeah he says "stutters scum" "stutters scum (lol)" "stutters made good posts, town" (no reasoning given). | ||
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On September 27 2013 03:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Mocsta Mattchew VE Stutters Pandain Cheesydude . Holy shit, that can't be right. I forgot Cephiro. | ||
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On September 27 2013 03:14 Koshi wrote: So? Same shit as with LM / Ceph? That's why I give him a townread. Because he is wishy-washy on lynch targets? | ||
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Also marv, i would like you to comment on this as you are good as scum. What do you think? | ||
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On September 27 2013 03:16 Koshi wrote: Cuz he doesn't know shit. And he doesn't try to save his scumbuddies. It was that game, it's not this game. really, even if he did do that every fucking game before this, you can't judge him as "town" because of last games, especially when no scum have flipped. | ||
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back in ~4h | ||
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atm i don't need to convince anyone to lynch mafia. Unless Cephiro comes back here and makes some crazy ass town post i am fine with where we are heading atm. | ||
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On September 28 2013 05:29 justanothertownie wrote: The same goes for snb btw. It is quite annoying how people join another game and just don't contribute here. Why does it not go for Koshi? | ||
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On September 27 2013 03:29 Stutters695 wrote: Anyone want to lynch Rayn with me? Seems like he's going for an easy mislynch with me and I don't like his scum list. When he's pushed me in the past he's always had good reasons and I don't see that here. This is a really bad post and Stutters should die for it. | ||
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On September 28 2013 05:49 justanothertownie wrote: It goes for everyone who is active in that game and not here. You and snb were just the people I noticed doing that first. Interesting. It's also interesting that Koshi only contributes during night phases.. | ||
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For the first 36 hours, there were ~7 people who were actively trying to find out a lynch/defending themselves. They were (on top of my head) me, you, marv, yamato, FT, JAT and more or less a couple of other dudes maybe. That's really crap. In the last 8h every single lurker chimed in and suddenly there was some LoneMeow lynch that came out of nowhere. I am not saying it was a bad lynch in the first place, i am saying it was a fucked up lynch because of the timing and how the lynch went down. IT was easy for scum to "contribute" towards the lynch at that point, i am more interested in looking into people who were absent in the first place and came along "discussing the lynch" when the wagons were already set up. Can you see what i am trying to say Mocsta? | ||
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Mainly iamp and CC. | ||
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Mark my words on D4. | ||
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A couple of other contenders if i am wrong on someone. | ||
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On September 28 2013 21:24 Mocsta wrote: So if we look pre-fake claim. Mattchew, Mr.CC, VE, Coag, OO, Pandain, Cephrio, Stutters & Post-fake claim. Mocsta, iamp, Mr.CC, VE, deconduo, Umasi, Pandain, Zaragon 5/6 scum voting one person, pre-fake claim. Yeah... im going with a no here. That's WIFOM Mocsta. Pure WIFOM, and does not mean anything. | ||
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On September 28 2013 21:37 Mocsta wrote: Explain me the actions of iamp + pandain then. I will, after dinner and voice mafia. | ||
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And i am also kinda wasted. Tomorrow. geript, Risen is in my "to look after people". | ||
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##Vote: VisceraEyes I am gonna post more tonight. | ||
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On September 30 2013 22:10 Pandain wrote: Rayn where have you been Sick. Brain doesn't work well. I'm reading atm and posting more tonight. | ||
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If you are town shape up and start playing the game, Mocsta is at least contributing. You are not. PAndain, who are your top scumreads besides VE? | ||
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On October 01 2013 05:00 Pandain wrote: FT, Stutters, you, Koshi, ? So can you give me a complete read on Koshi? | ||
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On October 01 2013 05:11 Pandain wrote: The time for questions is last Rayn we are on day four wtf is this shit? no questions anymore, just lynch people? | ||
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What i do like is: ##Unvote: ##Vote: iamperfection He is not looking like his townie self, at all, in this game. Despite being replaced he has caught up as can be seen from his first reads post. After that post he has been really absent, asking people's read on him and shit. Then there is his horrible analysis fron D2 votes. That's completely wrong and iamp is not that wrong as town. He is scum. | ||
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Your point against his acuracy/inaccuracy in reads is non alignment indicative. Both town/scum can have accurate/inaccurate reads. His cases are always like that, especially as town. FirmTofu is far more confindent as scum than he is as town. Your points (2) and (4) are good Mocsta. That's something he needs to explain. Other than that, i don't think he is scum (having played with him a lot as him being scum/town). | ||
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On October 01 2013 22:52 Mocsta wrote: And why is (1) not an issue? The inaccuracy is not an issue in isolation; but that was not the crux of what I stated. My issue arose from his accuracy of reads on TOWN people that did suspicion actions and the lack of justification on those reads. Nobody except FT thought Geript was town early game. Fact is, if you thought point (4) was solid, then the inaccuracy point holds, because how can he have a town read on Geript and miss such an important part of the DP/Geript conversation. And do you think it is acceptable for a firmtofu to base all his scumreads on "apathy'"? Do you think FT case he made on you (rayn) is acceptable? It was also based on apathy? Your (1) is wrong. FT gave a reason for voting for you. It was "Cephiro flipping scum gives scum!Mocsta a motivation to do retarded things at the deadline". This is something that's not even far-fetched imo. I don't just think he is right. I thought geript was town early on, for example. Yes, i already said your points (2) and (4) were valid, that does not mean every one of his reads is bullshit because of their accuracy/inaccuracy. About the "apathy" cases; It's not acceptable, it's bad play or scum play. Considering we are talking about FT here, i would say bad play, because that is what he does as town and not so much as scum. | ||
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On October 01 2013 23:46 Risen wrote: I don't want to lynch FT anymore... I somehow glossed over the implications of his case on decon. I'd say decon is scum for the same reasons FT just did and kita your calling out of him makes no sense there. We now know cephiro is scum, decon's vote switch off of him onto geript, a confirmed townie (though unconfirmed at the time), is sketch as fuck. The thing that gets me about that post is decon seeing Cephiro react outlandishly to a post and say "Oh totes a town reaction, unvote and get onto geript" for 0 reasoning given. Town doesn't do this. Town doesn't also, earlier in their filter (which is 1 page + 1 post wtf?), call out people for having a 5 vote lynch d1 then leave their vote on geript d2 with two major candidates. After simmering and going through filters, I want stutters dead. Decon is a VERY close second, though, and for the time being I don't want to see FT lynched. That's actually a really good point on deconduo. What do you think of iamp Risen? | ||
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He has not done anything to help the town either. | ||
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On October 01 2013 23:51 Risen wrote: EBWOP: That was unfair and paints him as scum. Iamp's reads have been solid this game, to the Risen of today's mind. That's all I can say about him. Umm no, they havn't. His actions and conclusions from especially the D2 lynch do not look like town!iamp's. | ||
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On October 02 2013 00:21 justanothertownie wrote: Is iamp a good townie generally? If yes I think I prefer to lynch him over FT. FT is a horrible townie and I am still not entirely sure if this or scum FT is the case. Yes, iamp is amongst the best on TL. Especially in proving his towniness as town. | ||
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Keep focus on who is gonna get lynched. You're both being dumb right now. | ||
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People are just insulting others, and talking about irrelevant stuff when there is a lynch to happen. This has happened every fucking day in this game, and we already hve three people who have ragequitted this game. Every day phase people discuss irrelevant stuff, then, at the last hours everyone chimes in and starts yelling "lynch this guy", when the first 40 hours of say phase have been wasted on bullshit and insults. Today's lynch is iamp/Stutters/FT. Discuss the lynch, you can yell at each other and post "#4 town reads and maybe this guy is scum too" on nights. | ||
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On October 02 2013 01:58 iamperfection wrote: this is horrible are you scum rayn? Your main point is that i'm wrong so i must be scum that is the most supect reasoning for thinking someone is scum ever. and you admit in this post that i clearly took the time to read the entire thread (something i would be less likely to do if i replaced as scum). you also say i was really absent but then asked people to give reads on me well which one is it. Plus what scum likes people talking about them anyways that isnt a scum motivated action in the slightest. I see through mocs thoughts how he could actually think that i am scum and his general effort in the case makes me believe even more he is town. But you show no sound reasoning whatsoever and this looks like complete bs to try a push a mislynch on me. You are twisting my words here iamp. I am not saying you are scum because you are wrong. I am saying you are scum because your actions make no sense from town!pov. First you push the lynch from Ceph to LoneMeow with the "FAKECALIM" reasoning, that was horrible, you should know better. Then, after the lynch you give multiple people town reads because "noone who voted after claim should be suspicious, but the people who voted before tha claim should". That's really REALLY bad. It's so horribly wrong. After LM claimed and you and Mocsta started yelling the fucking fakeclaim thing every single scum had the opportunity to hop on the wagon with no real reason. There is no town!motivation for your actions during D2 lynch, there is no town!motivation for your actions after the lynch. | ||
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On October 02 2013 02:16 iamperfection wrote: I think its even worse that rayn uses those reasons to say im the best lynch when we have a chance to reduce mafia kp. Rayn are you still here dear? And fuck you with this. You are defending yourself based on "because you are maybe getting lynched when mafia KP is on the line". That's fucking fishy iamp. If people can't see what's wrong with this i am really sad. Like, as there is mafia KP on the line does that make you town? Weak man... really weak. | ||
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On October 02 2013 02:23 iamperfection wrote: no rayn i have explained it time and time again my reasoning. Your are using the result to make the basis that it isnt town motivated and not looking what happened at time because you are scum to make it suit your objective. I was clearly reacting to what happened at the time and reacting quickly. i have another question for you why did you vote ve at the start of the cylce when it looks like from my understanding when it looks like me and cc were your top reads unless im mistaken you tell me rayn if your scum i wont hold it against you. Because i can't vote for all the people i think are scum. I have only one vote. wtf is this question? In case you have been reading i have had VE as my scumread for a long time. Then he decided to ragequit. | ||
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On October 02 2013 02:24 iamperfection wrote: um yeah because this is a very important list and your are using horrible reasoning to vote me that is super scummy. And no, my reasoning is not horrible at all. I called you out for it eariler, as you quoted in your last post. I didn't explain it then, but i did call you out for it. I even did it right after someone quoted your horrible post about your horrible townread on Mr.CC based on the actions regarding D2 lynch. I can find it for people if necessary. | ||
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On October 02 2013 02:32 iamperfection wrote: because caring about the lynch is one of the ways i find scum. I have found in the past scum show less intrest and are more apathetic to the lynch cephiro showed up lone hadn't to the last second So you can by default caa everyone scum who were not there at the deadline. Do you realize how fucked up this argument is in itself, and why does it make none sense. I give you a hint. In Europe, the deadline is ~5-8 AM. I'll give you another hint. ~80% of players don't care fuck about the lynch before the last 8 hours of the day. | ||
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On October 02 2013 03:17 FirmTofu wrote: Thankfully, I can actually be around during lynch today. I will probably use my vote on Deconduo/Mocsta, depending on which one has more votes. No you are not doing that. That's fucking retarded. Again you are going to bail from taking response about the lynch and from your vote? Stop doing that if you are town. | ||
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wtf are you doing. deconduo is not gonna get lynched. | ||
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Fuck you Pandain. Man up and contribute to the lynch. | ||
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On October 02 2013 04:04 Pandain wrote: Fuck you and listen. I was clearly pushing VE and decondou was a distant thought in my mind and still had chances to contribute. Why should you not lynch decondou? Give me one good reason . Because after VE flipped his shit and got himself modkilled there has been a big discussion about the lynch targets. I have been saying this every fucking phase. Deconduo is not gonna get lynched today, deal with it. Not any more. | ||
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On October 02 2013 04:09 Pandain wrote: Are you literally this fucking dumb? 5-6 hours is plenty of time what the fuck. Remember golden sun? LAST MINUTE LYNCHES ON ZEALOS WTF. I remember that you forced me to vote for kushmasta because you and our beloved cop were too stubborn to listen to people who could actually read for him. ffs... I also remember inever ever wanted to lynch Zealos. I am not gonna let that happen here! | ||
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This. This fucking this! | ||
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On October 02 2013 04:12 Pandain wrote: Answer me now do you think decondou is scum or are you trying to avoid a lynch on your scum buddy. If you think decondou is scum and I have proved he can be lynched given the top canidate only has four votes, why are you not voting for him. Your logic is failing and dumb. If you are town I will give you 10 minutes while I take a shower to look over filters and give me a good response. No i do not think deconduo is scum. I think you are scum. | ||
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On October 02 2013 04:13 Pandain wrote: Why is decondou not scum? There is no reason he is town. I want to see your thought process now so after we lynch decondou you will be shown scum because there is no reason to support decondou. His posts are not scumlike. They are far more likely to come from town. If you are not pleased with this then i can't help you. | ||
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I am not that scared. Come to me bro! | ||
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That's the worst case ever lol. | ||
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VOT E OR IAMP! | ||
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On October 02 2013 10:33 justanothertownie wrote: Wtf rayn. Are you drunk again? no | ||
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ROFL WTF? | ||
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On October 02 2013 10:48 Pandain wrote: This town is awful I have no respect for many of you, with flawed reasoning you are going to lynch a highly probable town. You all should be ashamed of yourselves. You are awful you piece of shit. | ||
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This is the lynch if we want to have even a tiny chance of winning this game. | ||
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Lynch Stutters. | ||
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On October 03 2013 22:24 kitaman27 wrote: What makes you think deconduo isn't the mafia roleblocker? Because he claimed a fucking medic? Unless there is a counter-claim he probably is a medic... | ||
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What i am saying is that you are now lynching deconduo, the uncc'd medic with this fingers crossed attitude. That will serve no purpose at the moment. | ||
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##Unvote: ##Vote: Koshi I have predicted scum roleblockers before. Koshi is scum, i predict he's also a roleblocker. deconduo vote - chance of success 0% Koshi vote - chance of success ~20% | ||
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On October 03 2013 23:28 Mocsta wrote: fuck this game. I can't take it anymore. I medic d yam night one. which is why I counter claimed in the first place. I medic'd JAT because he was 'd the previous night. I hoped scum would return to finish him. anyways, kill me and fuck this game. WTF? ARE YOU ACTUALLY A MEDIC OR NOT? | ||
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##Unvote: ##Vote: deconduo bleh.. | ||
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On October 04 2013 01:18 justanothertownie wrote: Rayn if you aren't scum. Why are you so fucking lazy this game? The last cycles you had almost 0 thread presence besides a short period of yelling at us to lynch iamp. This game isn't bigger than a mini anymore. If you were town you would be much more invested. Because i have not had time to play, really. I have other things to do aswell, and they have been now. I have, at every phase, said who i think is my top lynch target, and why. I pushed Cephiro and Pandain on D2. I thought they were the best lynches. When PAndain seemed like to not happen, i asked my townread marv if i should switch to Ceph (as i had to go). Then those fuckers lynched LM. On D3 Ceph was totally the best lynch, as he was on D2. On D4 i thought iamp was scum. Then i pushed his lynch. I was wrong. I am here when i am here. I post if i have something to say when i am here. | ||
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On October 04 2013 01:40 justanothertownie wrote: Maybe but this is very unraynlike. Also I don't like how you tried to get the doc to counterclaim. No it's not. And kita was fucking dumb. Or scum. | ||
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On October 04 2013 01:43 justanothertownie wrote: Well, I disagree. If decondou wasn't the real doc it would be the stupidest thing ever to counterclaim him. No. I am saying we should not lynch him today. IF deconduo is scum, do you think he is the roleblocker? Why the fuck scum roleblocker fakeclaim? Why not someone else? If we lynch non-roleblocker scum we still lose. DECONDUO CANNOT BE THE MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER! ##Unvote: ##Vote: Koshi This guy however can. | ||
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We lynch scum. 7:4. One of Mocsta/decon is fakeclaiming. MAfia roleblocks the medic. 5:4. We lynch scum. 5:3. Mafia roleblocks the medic. 3:3 gg. | ||
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HE IS 100% SCUM! What has he done? Right? | ||
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##Vote: deconduo Uhh, i guess there is nothing else we can do then.. :/ | ||
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Scum list is pandain, rayn, stutters, sent, and kita. Dat Cephiro death miller. | ||
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On October 05 2013 11:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Why did town lynch iamp over stutters I have no idea, i just had to try it. | ||
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1 GF (we picked Pandain on N1) 1 RB'r (kush/kita) 2 goon (me + Ceph) | ||
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On October 05 2013 12:25 justanothertownie wrote: So you framed Mocsta N1? Of course. I always frame Mocsta when he gets checked. | ||
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On October 05 2013 12:33 justanothertownie wrote: Yeah.. Kita would have won this game anyway because he was the towniest player still in this game. Sorry town I played really badly... Actually you were one of the best townies in this game imo. | ||
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http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/xE7HcF4bKpC | ||
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I was just hoping for everyone but kush and me to post more from out ream. There were a lot of logical leaps in the cases against our dudes but i wanted them to point them out for town credit instead of me. Then when Ceph lynch came up i couldn't do anything to stop that, marv/yamato would have insta-lynched me. I could have said a lot more at that point but i was not in the need of town credit. Like if you compare that to how Pandain defended Cephiro at forst. That was totally legit but why does PAndain have to do it? Why not Cephiro instead, as Pandain was not in real danger and Ceph was. After D2 i was sick for a couple of days and couldn't play much. And then there was really nothing much to do (+ i had other stuff to do aswell). I don't think mafia played particularly well, it was more that town somehow managed to fuck up the game for themselves after D2 -> . Atnosphere guys, the atmosphere... | ||
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On October 05 2013 22:15 marvellosity wrote: who are you kidding rayn? the turning point was Mocsta fakeclaiming to save Cephiro. Yeah. It was. But there was a bigger threat before that when you were about to figure out 4/6 scum. At that point Cephiro was the lesser bad option. :p | ||
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town had mafia on the ropes day 2, townie fakeclaims doctor to lynch the real doctor and save the mafia various townies modkill themselves in rage because their cases on fellow townies aren't being listened to lynched Cephiro on D3 lynched iamp D4 lynched decon D5 ... endgame marv/yamato got killed N2, nobody looked into their filters. Mocsta did not get mislynched You/kita did not lynched I didn't spam. | ||
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