TL Mafia LXII: TL Noir

On August 09 2013 22:43 Vivax wrote:
/out

On August 11 2013 12:36 AxleGreaser wrote:
I know it might be really subtle tell/connection but is player 11 a smurf or a doppelganger?

1 shot unlynchable/bulletproof?

On September 13 2013 07:16 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh for fuck sakes I only played in golden sun because I figured this wouldn't start for a while.

Shit activity likely.

On September 18 2013 04:23 Coagulation wrote:
im gonna play this game without reading my role.

On September 18 2013 05:38 Risen wrote:
No worries VE, I'll roll scum and fight against your lynch tooth and nail for all that juicy town cred.

On September 18 2013 07:40 iVLosK! wrote:
VE still has nightmares about me and my ability to FUCK HIM UP

On September 19 2013 10:43 hiro protagonist wrote:
Ahhh, I wish I could play... alas, life to busy.

gl hf

On September 19 2013 13:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
life shit has come up

/out

On September 21 2013 12:03 DarthPunk wrote:


Please create some sort of case, which includes some sort of evidence. You mentioned meta so link some old games of mine. Until then go away plz.

On September 21 2013 12:06 geript wrote:
Cos I do what I want bish.

On September 21 2013 14:33 Mocsta wrote:

Lets do this, bish.
(1) DP in his TL;DR never spoke about you.
Stop being a narcissist like DP.

(2) So you are saying (whilst wearing your heart on the sleeve) that early Day1: it is expected for scum to be controversial and then just say, im fucking off?... Chrust (sic) back to you..

(3) Nice. If you are going to accuse me of "twisting things around here and it's being done in a very scummy way"; then at least explain it.

This reads as an outright smear campaign. Justify this pl0x.

On September 21 2013 12:40 DarthPunk wrote:

The thing is. He should have already posted and discussed all this if he is as convinced I am scum as he seems. It is telling that he did not. It is scummy that he tried to get VE to do it for him.

On September 22 2013 03:59 geript wrote:

Nah he's townie because of MocLogic from post 2.

On September 22 2013 07:11 Koshi wrote:

The previous newbie game.

On September 22 2013 07:22 WaveofShadow wrote:

On phone atm but I want to know if anyone else found something odd/disturbing about this post.

On September 22 2013 07:45 WaveofShadow wrote:

Not what I was getting at but I'm fine with the suspicion.

On September 22 2013 07:51 ObviousOne wrote:

Where's Kush? VE is emphasizing words and I want to know if this further confirms or conflates his previously stated townish read.

On September 22 2013 07:53 ObviousOne wrote:

It's debatable. I have a fever. Things are warped slightly. Please make Pandain piss in someone else's cheerios. Give me your thoughts on CC?

On September 22 2013 07:59 marvellosity wrote:
I do wish people wouldn't randomly go after coag btw. Makes it hard to get a read on people doing so. Why go after coag when people KNOW he's going to be at least some form of useless, especially on Day 1? Are the people pursuing him really able to say "this is NOT town coag on day 1"? If not, why is the vote on coag, or why is coag on the shit-list other than for being useless?

On September 22 2013 22:20 yamato77 wrote:

Scum DP is actually more likely to only argue the entire game than town DP is. Honestly, DP refusing to do anything OMGUS people the whole game is not a point in his favor, it is a point against. You should know better, because in Persona, he was actually somewhat useful despite there being arguments in the game.

Unfortunately, if DP is mafia, you're probably just bad. This whole situation between you and DP is entirely too convoluted for two scum to have constructed. And yes, I am calling DP mafia, for the record. He can very well play this game properly and not like a butthurt noob.



Pro-tip: Don't listen to a player's opinion of their own meta. Or take "I do this as scum/town, too!" as a valid excuse for legitimately scummy play. Wave has picked up on the same thing that I've picked up on, and it makes me feel very good about this read. I rescind my early scum read on Wave.

---

As in, he's actually posting? This line of questioning goes nowhere, because in recent memory, FT has simply not posted and been lynched for it. As town. Questioning the difference is completely pointless. Something is off with Rayn this game. His questions are generally stupid, but he's a special kind of useless so far and it's begun to seriously bother me.

---

RE: VisceraEyes

Still pretty scummy and useless. Can be scummy and useless as town. Not necessarily a good lynch. His alignment will be clearer the longer the game goes on.

---

RE: Mocsta

Has toned down his play to some extent but his early game still bothers me. His outright refusal to respond to me is ridiculous and a pathetic excuse to not face your accuser. I think he doesn't want to argue with me because he knows I can catch him. If Mocsta was town, I would have expected a far more vehement response to my accusations than "blahblah I didn't even read Yamato's posts except for the part where he called me mafia. Totes not true."

---

This dude is now the best lynch in the game, for quite obvious reasons.

##Vote: Chairman Ray

On September 23 2013 02:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why not lynch Koshi instead? Koshi has said absolutely nothing in this game besides having two scumreads for shitty reasons and he has retracted from both of them with no reasons..

On September 23 2013 11:52 yamato77 wrote:

Is that why you voted yourself? So depressed you decided to commit suicide in your mafia game?

I can give you counseling, bro.

On September 23 2013 12:06 DarthPunk wrote:
Yeah....,. I am just about done with this game.

On September 24 2013 04:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Okay so what differentiates gumshoe from Xzavier, Onegu and Zenatsu?

On September 24 2013 04:30 WaveofShadow wrote:

I'm pretty bothered by the fact that many of these red names are present in my vig-list in one form or another.
Do you really believe that the entire scumteam is being lurky/useless and they do not have one strong member?

On September 24 2013 04:46 WaveofShadow wrote:

Thank you.


I've never played with Mattchew before, so I can only base my thoughts of him on this game's performance and so far, I'm not impressed. OO is a different story, and yes, at times he can be a prolific poster and a good scumteam member. He is also apparently capable of spectacular blunders as scum.

The point of my question is, neither of these players can be declared to be influential or strong within this game; as such there is NOBODY on your entire redlist who I would consider a strong player, and that to me, is suspect. It is incredibly easy to pick out the weaker half of the player list and throw a bunch of red names on there because it will either be difficult for them to retaliate or prove their innocence, or because there hasn't been a great deal of counter-discussion with or involving those players that could implicate you above anyone else.

On September 24 2013 04:51 WaveofShadow wrote:

How and when will that no longer be an issue? Do you believe that you will be able to prove yourself as the day progresses? Because I look forward to that. As it stands atm I have you at 'having a bad game' or 'scum.' Both equally possible.

I'm not assuming you're scum necessarily, VE, but I find it very hard to believe that a town VE's list is this.....'easy.' Of course it is entirely possible as well that all of the scum this game ARE contained within weak posters/lurkers, I just choose to remain skeptical of that at the current time.

On September 24 2013 04:59 marvellosity wrote:
Don't like that VE list. No I don't.

On September 24 2013 05:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
As for as towns devouring themselves in recent games...it's basically EVERY game. I have no faith in TL towns any more and having not played town for an extended period of time in a game for a while, I am attempting to do my part in making up for it. The thing is, though, TL towns haven't been only devouring themselves due to terrible townplay (those it is a primary factor). I don't think I've seen a scumteam in the recent string of wins who hasn't deserved to win in any degree, and that to me would be what you are suggesting with your list.

On September 24 2013 05:01 marvellosity wrote:


Why are you playing like this? Where's your ... va-va-voom this game, sweetheart?

You don't suit the woe-betide me.

On September 24 2013 05:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
Here I'll give you a useless bit of self meta to chew on.

On September 24 2013 05:52 Coagulation wrote:
general thread sentiment seems to point at lonemeow but I dont like that shot much.

On September 24 2013 06:34 Zaragon wrote:
With FT, at first I had a genuine vibe from him, a distracted town catching up and giving decent points along the way. I found them similar to mine at that point.

After he disappeared and came back into the game (again) I didn't get a "town catching up" vibe, I got a scum "I have to make myself look townier, quick, something" vibe. When someone tries to make a case on me based on "fluff" and also votes Chairman Ray very late, obviously from my point of view they look very scummy.

That gives VE some good circumstances to drop from my scummiest reads--which would give me a better context read on FT since part of my town read on FT was how he read VE--but I don't know what to make of VE's posts now. There is no drive in those posts, town or scum.

VE what are your specific thoughts about FT?

On September 23 2013 19:23 FirmTofu wrote:
Finally got some decent reads. :D

Firstly, I want to address the vigi situation.

As a vigilante you want to shoot the people who are currently useless and are unlikely to become useful in the future. I'll go through a few people and address the value of shooting them.

We have recent replacement inactives in Malongo, Deconduo, and Blazinghand. These guys deserve some time to catch up to the thread. Their deaths would not serve a higher purpose in the short-term.

Then we have people like VayneAuthority, kush, and VE. These are people that are capable of strong town games, but are currently either just trolling or posting with a subdued interest. I would say that this group of people becomes more easy to read as the game progresses, hence they aren't the best vig shots.

Tier 3 are people who are sitting in the semi-lurker category, but have some posts of substance. I would include Pandain, JAT, Mr.CC, Zaragon, Sentinel, Umasi, Stutters, and a few others I can't remember in this grouping. I believe that this group probably holds the majority of the scumteam. These are people that want to stay just above lurker territory so as to avoid suspicion. I think most of these guys would be good vig shots as long as some discretion is used.

Finally you have the completely useless. These are people that aren't trying to get better and aren't going to play better when asked. They are either hardcore lurking or posting little to no substance. Examples include Risen, Coag, and Lonemeow. Anyone who is in this category is a decent shot from a vig perspective, but is less likely to be scum than the previous category I mentioned.

On September 24 2013 07:15 marvellosity wrote:


Are you monumentally dumb?

VE said "I know self-meta isn't relevant, but here's a little tidbit"

then you spent a whole post explaining why self-meta isn't relevant.

Brilliant, Risen. Your brilliance and intelligence is truly astounding.

On September 24 2013 07:17 marvellosity wrote:


I agree with everything really, including your reservations about the vote numbers.

would be kinda lovely just to magically know his alignment ;p

On September 24 2013 07:33 marvellosity wrote:
kinda suspicious of you for dropping that randomly in there tbh VE.

oh well.

On September 24 2013 07:58 Risen wrote:

I don't know or I would have posted with much more conviction. If I die marv would be the first person I would want lynched after VA/FT, though. If he flips red I think it makes you look much worse. Equally you flipping red makes him look much worse imo

On September 24 2013 07:59 yamato77 wrote:

1) I probably have more content this game than anyone else

2) The posts he pointed out aren't even that bad

he basically complained that I spammed a couple times, which is fucking stupid

On September 24 2013 08:02 yamato77 wrote:

Find one person who has posted more meaningful content than me this game

I will tear you apart in this argument, VE

On September 24 2013 08:04 Risen wrote:


Fair enough. Point stands, though. I'm just pointing out something I think isn't pro-town. That isn't necessarily saying you two are scum shitting up the thread, it just says "Hey look at these two circle jerkin it over here. Isn't that weird? Why would town do this? If they're still alive after VA/FT are dead they deserve some hard looking into and this is a point against them."

On September 24 2013 08:08 kushm4sta wrote:
VE and marv, you guys have really carried on the spam while Australia is sleeping. Well done.

On September 23 2013 11:01 Cephiro wrote:
Okay, voting for LoneMeow because:

1) He's appareantly a new player I have no idea of
2) He started martyring which is something I dislike
3) This Ray guy on a quick look doesn't look like he should be killed
4) I have no idea about this FirmTofu guy
5) Some other wagons that were in the last votecount have players that I'm familiar with and am able to read during nightphase

On September 24 2013 08:22 Mattchew wrote:
marv im reading like 20 pages can you do me a favor in the meantime.

im a little out of the loop on tl mafia, can you list who the experienced players are in this game, i know most i think but i want a full list

On September 24 2013 08:26 Blazinghand wrote:


I can do this! I can do this!

players who I have seen around a lot recently:

DP
rayn
WoS
Koshi (sort of)
yamato
Chairman Ray
Pandain
Coag
Sent
VE
Geript
VA
Risen
marv
mattc

of them, players I have seen play well in recent memory:

rayn
wos
VE
VA
Risen
Marv

On September 24 2013 08:29 kushm4sta wrote:
in a shit ton of posts ft goes super in depth about his thought process. scum dont do that shit

On September 24 2013 08:31 Blazinghand wrote:


I think you might be operating on a higher level than me. I made that post because I haven't caught up yet and it's something I can do. What am I doing?

On September 24 2013 08:35 Blazinghand wrote:


Well if you got any pointers for me on my re-read, let me know?

On September 24 2013 08:41 Mattchew wrote:

no, but you keep believing that

On September 24 2013 08:42 Mattchew wrote:
marv feels like hes playing with no fear of being shot... thats weird as hell

On September 24 2013 08:37 Mattchew wrote:
i dont know if VE can martyr and be this depressing as scum

my vote stayed on yamato because he didn't overreact to a lynch push on him, he didnt even call me scum for voting him, he hasnt been super aggressive the whole game

wave should be medic'd

DP has to be town theres no way scum gets that upset about an apparent mod mistake town lynch

Mocsta is clearly town

i could see a scum team of marv, yamato, firm tofu, stutters, a replaced player, and a lurker

this FT post is long but literally says nothing.
+ Show Spoiler +

no i will not give my reasoning for marv being scum... plus if im wrong which i probably am because i suck at marvreading, he'll be dead soon enough

On September 24 2013 09:12 WaveofShadow wrote:

I really hate posts like this.
DP does that shit all the time too.
And marv.

Stop making posts like this people, they do not help anyone make any sort of read into you.

On September 24 2013 09:15 Mattchew wrote:

or not, and you are just thinking very highly of yourself

On September 24 2013 09:43 WaveofShadow wrote:

In my opinion, yes, though it might be due to personal bias.
I can follow BH pretty damn well whereas Ceph I have only played in one game with him and was particularly invested in what he had to say.

BH has an excuse for not posting a great deal thus far since he wasn't actually IN the game and I ACTUALLY expect him to follow up. Ceph I have no idea whether he will or not.

Why do you ask, my dear?

On September 24 2013 09:56 WaveofShadow wrote:

lol.

On September 24 2013 09:57 geript wrote:
Since we're narrowing down on the deadline... I think. I just wanted to be up front for realz. I'm not shooting DP. or FT. or Onegu. It's not for lack of desire. It's for lack of bullets; I mean I personally am not shooting blanks, but in the game I have neither a gun nor blanks. I just figured that it gives a quite good alternate way to read/medic people if appropriate and I hope DP comes back and shit. All that said, I would hope that DP would've had much more faith in me but after aperature I guess not. I'm still not happy with his replacing out and I still feel like he's getting a freebie town pass from most people inexplicably.

Surprise

On September 24 2013 10:00 WaveofShadow wrote:

But see here's the thing.
I'm NOT surprised.
At all.
I am MORE surprised that DP let something as miniscule as your threats get to him.

On September 24 2013 10:01 kushm4sta wrote:


looks town actually. I don't expect that much effort from scumcoag.

On September 24 2013 10:06 kushm4sta wrote:

u want me to pull the quotes?

On September 24 2013 10:09 kushm4sta wrote:
he is reading and thinking about the game as indicated by many posts.
he had that prolonged conversation with you guys about the vig shot.

On September 24 2013 10:13 kushm4sta wrote:
lawl at trying to analyze his picture.
as a fellow shitposter, I have great insight into coag's play. Why would he try even a little if he doesn't have to? what is the point of having a shitposting meta if you can't capitalize on it by shitting it up as sucm?

On September 24 2013 10:24 VayneAuthority wrote:
remember to doc me tonight ty

On September 24 2013 10:27 yamato77 wrote:

TBH, I wouldn't expect him to be so useless as town.

Trolling is something he does as scum, like in Les Mis. He does something that annoys people that he thinks he can get away with.

100% of the time, btw.

Firmly scum on VA, especially since he has yet to even try to play.

On September 24 2013 10:35 VayneAuthority wrote:
I would troll as either alignment in this game so it doesn't really matter. I more joined it to fill up the game for others; This is what we would consider an anomaly.

Regardless, I will leave you with my reads before deadline (not that anyone cares)

On September 24 2013 10:36 Cephiro wrote:


I wanted to give you something to by in the case I am vig shotted. Agreed that it may be not much, but someone may be able to make something out of it. Yes, it is true I haven't been helping you out this game because I've been busy. Do you have any idea of how long it takes to properly read more than 50 pages and analyzing all the communication in it?



Is it simply because I wasn't able to post properly during this first cycle that you don't expect anything from me at all?



This is what I find downright insulting, and I'm not sure if I'm more sad or furious right now. Do you expect everyone to live some fucking 24/7 holiday life where they can always have their mafia games at #1 priority? If I didn't give a shit, why would I be posting and reading through the countless pages I still have to waddle through at fucking 4:30 AM?


At least I wasn't voting to kill our parity cop regardless of my activity. -_- In any case, I firmly vouch for vigs not shooting me tonight.

Why?

Because I am an incredibly good townie when I have time to post. I interact a lot, I pressure my scumreads hard, and everyone can certainly get a good read on me. In pretty much every game where I have rolled town I have been able to establish my town-ness to others properly, in a way or another. (Well, admittingly I do that fairly well when I roll scum too.)

If you decide to shoot me tonight, you won't just lose a potentially great townie, but you won't be gaining any information. Me flipping town doesn't really give anything to go by, as I haven't been able to interact with others yet. Shoot someone that you think is scum, someone that will give us a lot of information from the flip even if they end up flipping town. If you genuinely think I am the best shot for tonight, then do it. I trust in our vigs to understand that is not the case.

And back to catching up.

On September 24 2013 10:39 Coagulation wrote:


why not lynch him?

On September 24 2013 10:40 yamato77 wrote:

Day 1 in Les Mafia

On September 24 2013 10:55 Coagulation wrote:
he cant give reads cause its not a real scum list because hes scum.

On September 24 2013 11:01 VayneAuthority wrote:


Keep in mind that this game was open for decades and when I joined it wasn't even close to full, hindsight is 20/20 lol. You aren't missing much, my town game is horrid

On September 24 2013 14:24 ObviousOne wrote:

Luuuuuuuucyyyyyyyy, you got some 'splainin to do.

Actually, I just looked at Cephiro. Feels like Chairman Ray of day 2. Actually it's worse. He promised nothing but the basest of activity for the first week of the game due to IRL circumstances. How do I decide if he's scum or town based on what he has put there? Well, I guess I'll look at the content, can't take more than two seconds right?

LM vote: Rushed. We were all on the same page regarding the unknown deadline I would assume? Did anyone hint they knew the deadline was earlier than the vote count projected? So the reasons were shitty, but fitting with his disconnect with the game based on activity.

I do hate this for what it is, but I'm thinking about the way he would phrase it. Like, if he's mafia and making excuses, he already has his excuse (busy week) no need to complicate things by fabricating new excuses, that's not the kind of spontaneity I associate with scum:


His reads on 5 people? Okay little more time spent, but swinging me the other way.
His kush read: doesn't like behavior
Coag read: doesn't like behavior
Sentinel read: finally something he could call someone scummy for, bad reasoning and useless posts
Vayne read: behavior again
JAT read: I already gave a basic meta for him which is essentially repeated

So from this list his best scum suspect is Sentinel.

My last idea here:

"I'm looking like shit but you should let me live". He pointed out a bunch of people in a similar situation to him... and he is special because he's going to be readable? Well, you have 40 hours or so to make that a reality!

TLDR: not averse to lynching without massive turnaround

On September 21 2013 13:07 DarthPunk wrote:

You won't die night one in this game.

On September 24 2013 15:22 ObviousOne wrote:
He's scum for excusing his shit play instead of playing. OKVE?!

On September 25 2013 01:08 marvellosity wrote:
His reasoning for attacking me is so god-damn bad that it's almost hard to believe it isn't genuine. That's the thing :/

On September 25 2013 01:12 marvellosity wrote:
Tell me VE. Have you ever heard anyone accuse someone before in the first cycle for "not being afraid to die"?

I mean, wtf is that? How is that even a thing?

On September 25 2013 01:23 geript wrote:

Did everyone miss this?

On September 25 2013 01:29 marvellosity wrote:


I can't think of a single instance where someone's been accused on the basis that Matt accused me. Certainly not on cycle 1, and I don't think any cycle.

Can you think of an example?

On September 25 2013 01:32 marvellosity wrote:


I care about precedents, because it shows it's not something that's occurred to accuse people of before in any other game in my mafia memory. Which suggests it's either a) fabricated or b) large paranoia.

I understand what the concept is supposed to be, but it's just nonsense.

On September 25 2013 05:46 iamperfection wrote:

you know he is pretty much confirmed town right?

On September 25 2013 05:58 deconduo wrote:
Wait unless I'm missing something here, how is yamato confirmed? From what I understand, and coag hasn't been that forthcoming with information, coag claimed a vig shot on yamato, and yamato claimed he was protected. Why does that make yamato town? All it means is that coag is semi-confirmed, and a doc saved yamato.

Why would a scum lie about being protected, it makes sense for yamato to claim the protection regardless of his alignment.

On September 25 2013 06:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I was under the assumption that geript shot VA? Wasn't Coag thinking of withholding his shot?

On September 25 2013 06:32 FirmTofu wrote:

Filter me please. I am one of the leading candidates for the lynch today so my filter would be a worthwhile investment.

On September 25 2013 06:35 iamperfection wrote:

what do you think of tofus point he made on umasi?

On September 25 2013 08:53 Pandain wrote:

I would think scum would at least want to comment on it one way or another. Indicates town to me.

On September 25 2013 09:05 marvellosity wrote:


isn't that what you did? lol

On September 26 2013 05:44 Pandain wrote:
Quick reasons why VE is scum before I go to class:
1. Has been lurking day two but still clearly reading.
2. Tried to cast doubt on Yamato as confirmed town, why even do that.
3. Just accused JAT for "why you pick FT" and being incredulous at it. Despite this, VE has said that he thinks FT best option and he only switched because no one would talk to him. Why is he so surprised at JAT.
4. Hasn't really been pushing lynches, merely commenting, agreeing, or disagreeing
5. Yam and WoS both thought and said VE was scum before they got shot.
6.

g2g be back later plz vote VE I will help with the crusade
Bad random vote, doesn't comment on key issues going on which corresponds to my noting his inconspicious absense.

On September 26 2013 06:09 Cephiro wrote:
@VE: What are your main reasons for thinking rayn is town?

On September 26 2013 06:13 marvellosity wrote:


? he's much less 'spastic' than usual about it.

this is pretty much indisputable. whether it makes him mafia is another matter.

this is carnage btw. i'm going for a shower.

On September 26 2013 06:15 marvellosity wrote:
I've already shone.

Ceph is singularly unimpressive still.

I'm curious given his choice of 2 mafia reads that he doesn't even touch upon the fact that one would be bussing the other.