EPTOn August 16 2013 01:43 Onegu wrote:
Rayne, clarity, Xata, Grack, and myself after those.
Rayne, clarity, Xata, Grack, and myself after those.
respond to my pm dude
GoT Mafia: Lords and Liars - Page 164
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
respond to my pm dude | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On August 16 2013 01:46 Clarity_nl wrote: I dunno. Depends if you think I'm scum? I mean, I never called em both town for it or anything but I don't think I ever even commented on it. Thats my point. tis alignment null. I find it odd kush listed it as a point because it was at at the end, came across to me as piece de resistance... maybe im over reading its 1am. gonna hit the sack | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
ima try not to get so mad again. apparently reasoned argument from an emotional position isn't enough to convince people. On August 15 2013 17:29 Mocsta wrote: Snb.. shoulda realised this earlier. But a town snb always pushes oats as a lynch. Didn't get that this game.. I need to do another read on him too but I don't think yamato pushed him that hard. U could argue he pushed snb as hard as he pushed acro. its cause oats was in my house so i could pm him. i talked to him quite a lot on n0 and got a town read on him because his reads on the clarity situation seemed reasonable and made sense to me, and because he seemed to be putting more thought into the implications of vivax's and clarity's actions to their alignments (and more thought in general) than I would have expected from scum-oats. Also because of a general feel of townieness I got from him, like he was really trying to work through things instead of just trying to seem like he was working through things. Once the day started and I was starting from a position of "probably town" his general fumblings reinforced that read, so I never felt like he was scum. also you should realize, scum snb also always pushes oats as a lynch. it's an easy way to follow my town meta. On August 15 2013 22:35 Xatalos wrote: Bad play isn't always scum play, but it's more likely scum play than good town play. Especially if the player is good as town. I don't know snb's meta though so it's hard to comment. apparently im not very good On August 15 2013 22:37 Acrofales wrote: I have found that talking to Kush is an utter waste of time. He says one thing, and 10 seconds later he says something entirely different. I feel he has made it his sole purpose to be as useless as possible this game and throw it in our faces. I don't see any reason why a townie would play like that, so he must be scum. I was asked to compare this to Kush in Smurf. There I get the feeling he is trying to find scum. Here he isn't. He was also about 5 times as active in a smaller, shorter game. Shoot on sight. blegh terrible. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On August 16 2013 01:55 Risen wrote: So we're going to ignore the whole Koshi supporting a case that has been debunked thing clearly proving he's just spouting nonsense so he can appear active in thread? only so many things you can push in one cycle. I think we are maxed out dude currently. Trust me, there is nothing more i want to do then dissect Koshi, but.. its important for consolidation currently as it will stop the thread from becoming an unreadable shitstorm. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18218 Posts
Strongandbig Koshi Vivax I already did SnB and Vivax yesterday and my thoughts are in the thread, but there have been some new observations from people, as well as some activity (at least from SnB). Will redo and update. @Clarity: as I said, I looked at Rayn's filter in Titanic and it is bountiful. Please tell me what you think is so similar to his play here, because I don't see it. @Mocsta: you have no fucking clue how SnB's scum meta works, so why are you giving him a town read based on meta. Your meta read is entirely wrong... and I want you to either explain it in detail with examples, or I will assume you just made it up. Scum-SnB is timid and doesn't push his reads AT ALL. The only exception I can think of is how we went up against Oats in Sicilian (think it was Sicilian), which he almost certainly did to emulate his town meta at the time of policy-calling-Oats-scum. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On August 16 2013 01:58 Acrofales wrote: @Mocsta: you have no fucking clue how SnB's scum meta works, so why are you giving him a town read based on meta. Your meta read is entirely wrong... and I want you to either explain it in detail with examples, or I will assume you just made it up. Scum-SnB is timid and doesn't push his reads AT ALL. The only exception I can think of is how we went up against Oats in Sicilian (think it was Sicilian), which he almost certainly did to emulate his town meta at the time of policy-calling-Oats-scum. Wouldn't you say he's been pretty timid and not pushing his reads this game...? | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
That is your main problem with rayn is it not? btw, snb just said his scum meta is to push oats, and now acro just said his town meta is to push oats. I don't believe in either one since that would be a terrible thing to do, push one person consistently as a particular alignment, but why the difference? | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On August 16 2013 01:52 strongandbig wrote: im back omg ima try not to get so mad again. apparently reasoned argument from an emotional position isn't enough to convince people. its cause oats was in my house so i could pm him. i talked to him quite a lot on n0 and got a town read on him because his reads on the clarity situation seemed reasonable and made sense to me, and because he seemed to be putting more thought into the implications of vivax's and clarity's actions to their alignments (and more thought in general) than I would have expected from scum-oats. Also because of a general feel of townieness I got from him, like he was really trying to work through things instead of just trying to seem like he was working through things. Once the day started and I was starting from a position of "probably town" his general fumblings reinforced that read, so I never felt like he was scum. also you should realize, scum snb also always pushes oats as a lynch. it's an easy way to follow my town meta. apparently im not very good blegh terrible. Apparently your scum meta is not to push things. So could you maybe... start pushing things? | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Im not proclaiming to be an SnB expert. I hate the guys play, and he hates mine. But in all the town games i played with him; he has honed onto oats like a homing missile. Personality 2 rings a big bell. Anyways, my original read on SnB I don’t get the early plan role thing. But whatevers. Hard guy to read cos of low give a crap factor. I think hes town personally. Cant really pinpoint why though. Overall; I just don’t feel hes been pushing anything… hence town. I already explained to someone else why i said pushing nothing to me was town. It was a personal heuristic, not an SnB one. Regardless, in Sicilian I the memories I have is that he was constantly pushing a mislynch even in death (e.g. the whole SK thing).. so perhaps his general scum meta is to be timid, but i was judging him off the scum snb i just played with 1 week ago. Im also not sure how much I buy the whole oats love story cos showing mindset in night 0.. I have to re-read that whole "redacted" shite, and double check how snb handled the oats/yamato lynch but thats tomorrow too tired gotta sleep. To me, Vivax is still a surer lynch. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
He has 6 pages of filter day 1, followed by 2 per cycle after that. Steep dropoff in activity. I still think that's a decent argument but it looks like the only scum games he's had since newbies where he didn't either replace in or replace out d1 were nuclear winter, where he did fit that pattern (only 2pp of filter per cycle, replaced out) and british empire, which was instant majority and so you can't compare filter lengths. That said I only saw one town game of his where he played like this (red team, 5pp of filter d1, 1pp d2 then lynched). Other than that I went through bastard mini (6pp d1, 5pp d2 then game ended), themed game (9pp of filter d1, then 12pp between d2 and d3), and ptp4 (9pp d1, 7pp d2, then got dayvigged d3) all of which show a much smaller dropoff in activity than this game. so he's matched this rule in 1/1 scum games that i looked at and only 1/4 town games, odds are pretty good here but it's not the slam-dunk numbers argument that i think it would be if his scum games had a larger sample size. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On August 16 2013 02:02 Xatalos wrote: Wouldn't you say he's been pretty timid and not pushing his reads this game...? nope #killrisen2013 i'll push something. Risen day 1 chose easy targets, entered the thread with a scummy-as-fuck post that made a huge list of reads based on bad arguments and attacking bad play instead of scum play, and spent the rest of the day not pushing anything and shooting one-liners all over the place. clearly scum. Risen after day 1 made a case on sharrant that had one decent point. he then proceeded to spend the rest of the day tunneling sharrant and attacking acro and myself for connection cases with sharrant, while ignoring sharrant's responses to his case and anything other people said about it. clearly scum. he's a much better lynch than i am. On August 16 2013 02:02 Clarity_nl wrote: Acro, especially his d3 and onwards is just a shitstorm. The major similarity is the questions he asks. Maybe from reading his filter it doesn't come across, but most of them were completely useless. Either the answer was readily available for those who looked or the answer was gonna be useless regardless. That is your main problem with rayn is it not? btw, snb just said his scum meta is to push oats, and now acro just said his town meta is to push oats. I don't believe in either one since that would be a terrible thing to do, push one person consistently as a particular alignment, but why the difference? when i'm town i tend to think oats is scum because he asks stupid questions and does a lot of things that don't contribute to the thread's finding scum, but he posts a lot and pays a lot of attention. it always makes me think he's just doing it to have useless thread presence. when i'm scum i tend to say oats is scum because it's an easy way to match my town meta. | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
On August 16 2013 02:22 strongandbig wrote: nope #killrisen2013 i'll push something. Risen day 1 chose easy targets, entered the thread with a scummy-as-fuck post that made a huge list of reads based on bad arguments and attacking bad play instead of scum play, and spent the rest of the day not pushing anything and shooting one-liners all over the place. clearly scum. Risen after day 1 made a case on sharrant that had one decent point. he then proceeded to spend the rest of the day tunneling sharrant and attacking acro and myself for connection cases with sharrant, while ignoring sharrant's responses to his case and anything other people said about it. clearly scum. he's a much better lynch than i am. when i'm town i tend to think oats is scum because he asks stupid questions and does a lot of things that don't contribute to the thread's finding scum, but he posts a lot and pays a lot of attention. it always makes me think he's just doing it to have useless thread presence. when i'm scum i tend to say oats is scum because it's an easy way to match my town meta. What do you think of Vivax? | ||
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
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Xatalos
Finland9675 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18218 Posts
On August 16 2013 02:02 Clarity_nl wrote: Acro, especially his d3 and onwards is just a shitstorm. The major similarity is the questions he asks. Maybe from reading his filter it doesn't come across, but most of them were completely useless. Either the answer was readily available for those who looked or the answer was gonna be useless regardless. That is your main problem with rayn is it not? btw, snb just said his scum meta is to push oats, and now acro just said his town meta is to push oats. I don't believe in either one since that would be a terrible thing to do, push one person consistently as a particular alignment, but why the difference? I actually misremembered PTP 4 and thought he was calling Oats scum for being disruptive and dumb, but he was calling DI scum for those reasons. So ignore the bit about pushing Oats as his meta regardless of alignment. The main point I was trying to make wasn't about Oats, it was about him not really pushing as scum. However, looking over his recent town games, just ignore meta entirely... at least my assessment of it. In PTP SnB got modkilled for inactivity (and I could have sworn he was scum, as I said before I died in the game, and insisted on it in obs qt afterwards). In NWM he got endgamed (by a scum Oats, I might add, lol). I would have called him scum if I was in that game. My calling SnB scum is thus not very trustworthy: I used to be able to read him back when his scum meta was to do fuckall and his town meta was to share good reads and push people he thought were scum. Unfortunately, his town meta lately is to play exactly like his scum game. What I DO know is that if Mocsta is representing SnB's meta as "pushing" people hard, he has no clue about SnB's playstyle, regardless of alignment. | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1833 Posts
##vote strongandbig I'm putting my vote here for now. My general thoughts on the game as it exists right now is that I have too many town reads. I've been saying this in PMs for awhile though and despite numerous run throughs of these town reads I still end up town. Very unsettling. There are probably 4-6 scum in this game, with or without a 3rd party, and I'm having trouble placing them. There are also too many people who evoke just a general blah or ambivalence feeling from me. One of these is s&b. I don't have an especially strong feeling towards him, other than the fact that he has been pretty useless I could also lynch Vivax today. I revisited his posting, and while it struck me as townie, it is not difficult to look pretty town in short controlled bursts. The difficulty is sustaining it. On July 09 2013 03:36 Vivax wrote: 4 pages of filter. Your effort is amazing. Oh yeah right you're busy, so am I every time I play scum. Mocsta -- you claimed that you wanted to see more from Vivax, and knew he was legit busy. When he finally came back to the thread, his posting to me looked town, yet you drew scum from this, in addition to his earlier posting which you presumably had already processed. You've talked about it some, but can you explain in a little more detail? | ||
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