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By today I mean this daycycle.
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not going to be useful underthreat of being shot.
if im not useful enough i will be shot and all my work will be for nothing. so im not taking that chance. this is why you dont threaten useless people. gg kush out ur bad im hella town u suk bad etc
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On August 15 2013 07:15 Clarity_nl wrote:
Pretty sure we're finishing you off unless you become useful today, kush.
@ snb, I'm not quite sure when I said you weren't active in pms d2 specifically.
Yamato pushing you could mean anything, doesn't prove you town.
3rd post isn't even me, that's xata...
Risen however is an easy target, and vivax has been a popular person to push this game, so it's not hard seeing scum going for those two.
Really though, scumhunt please. Make a list post.. anything but more posts of you saying "but I'm town"
nah, i'm going home soon. i'll post more tomorrow.
PS my posts aren't "but i'm town", they're "your reasons for thinking i'm scum are stupid and you should feel bad." big difference.
PPS
On August 15 2013 04:19 Clarity_nl wrote:
3) d2 he didn't do much, that's simply how it is. He had no presence in the thread at all, nor im pms.
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On August 15 2013 07:41 kushm4sta wrote:
not going to be useful underthreat of being shot.
if im not useful enough i will be shot and all my work will be for nothing. so im not taking that chance. this is why you dont threaten useless people. gg kush out ur bad im hella town u suk bad etc
I see a contradiction.
Are you telling me that you would have been useful had you not been under threat of being shot?
Do you believe that if we ignored all the useless people and lynched all the useful people that that would yield better results?
I don't understand what you get out of playing this game kush.
I feel like all you do every game you play is lower the bar.
Why are you here?
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On August 15 2013 07:43 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 07:15 Clarity_nl wrote:
Pretty sure we're finishing you off unless you become useful today, kush.
@ snb, I'm not quite sure when I said you weren't active in pms d2 specifically.
Yamato pushing you could mean anything, doesn't prove you town.
3rd post isn't even me, that's xata...
Risen however is an easy target, and vivax has been a popular person to push this game, so it's not hard seeing scum going for those two.
Really though, scumhunt please. Make a list post.. anything but more posts of you saying "but I'm town" nah, i'm going home soon. i'll post more tomorrow. PS my posts aren't "but i'm town", they're "your reasons for thinking i'm scum are stupid and you should feel bad." big difference. PPS Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 04:19 Clarity_nl wrote:
3) d2 he didn't do much, that's simply how it is. He had no presence in the thread at all, nor im pms.
What I'm saying here is that you had no presence period. I'm not pointing out "well he wasn't active in pms d2 so hurr durr"
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welp I'm back. gonna guess nobody is here now
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On August 15 2013 05:50 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:32 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:27 Risen wrote:
^I don't know what was scummy about my d1 play, please link the case detailing what you thought was scummy to me. Also please explain why my actions d2 and today have been scummy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19495357since then: you've been focusing basically entirely on sharrant. Your initial reasons were mostly bad, and when sharrant answered them you ignored his answers and continued to tunnel him, and me and acro largely because of the connection case with sharrant. it's scummy because your ignoring his answers, and focusing on connections before he flips, make it more likely to be a convenient way to "remain consistent" and have some thread presence without having to actually hunt scum in a meaningful way. Excuse me if I'm wrong, but Sharrant's defense was basically "no scum would do things that I have done". I would, so I don't see why he wouldn't. He followed this with "Oh I covered my ass with Acro in case he was scum by giving him two targets and telling him I was choosing the one I didn't check thereby giving Acro a chance to WIFOM his way to defending the right person". No. A town cop doesn't give him that chance. A town cop with a town read asks Acro about two different people he has no chance of checking, and then asks for that town reads personal opinion. Then he weighs the response and makes his checks very quietly. God... this is all based upon a town cop even asking someone he doesn't have confirmed as town who he should check. NO TOWN COP DOES THIS ARE YOU PEOPLE KIDDING ME!!! Who does that? I have never, ever, ever, ever, EVER seen a cop ask a non cops opinion on who he should check unless they were confirmed town. ESPECIALLY when if Acro were to be scum Shar would just die. He'd be dead, that's it, that's the end of it. It isn't "Oh Sharrant came to the thread after not telling anybody about his one shot and claiming a red check." It's "Sharrant came to the thread after asking another person he hadn't checked who he should check AT NIGHT WHEN HE HAS NO IDEA IF HE'S GOING TO LIVE OR NOT" Who knows they're going to live through the night? SCUM. Shit this doesn't even bring Acro into it as being a scum buddy like my last scenario did. It make Acro look pretty damn bad since how the hell didn't he think of this as town. That's the first fuckin thing I would think of if someone asked me who they should check. I'd be thinking, "Wait a fuckin second, why is a cop asking me this shit at night when I could be scum? Am I about to become Sharrant's town-confirmer while he busses a teammate?" Fuck the WIFOM "bomb" Sharrant is defending himself with. There's no answer he could possibly give that would convince me he was town. Nothing. So if you other lords want to fuckin hang yourselves fine. But I'm done with this. He's so clearly scum it fucking hurts. Fuck my vote on SnB. ##unvote
##vote: SharrantSharrant is a pretty clean and cut scum team member. No one in this thread has scum slipped, so unless someone wants to come into the thread and claim red it's staying there. The end.
So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
And you're saying that he's confirmed scum because it would be a bit dumb to claim to an unconfirmed player? That the above scenario is FAR more likely?
On August 15 2013 03:24 Risen wrote:Which question? And as to the nature of the scumslip, Xatalos has been in PMs with me for a while now soft defending Shar. I don't really think anything of it and I'm trying to bring him around to seeing Shar as scum. Nothing truly sticks out, I think he's just trying to gain perspective on me. He then tells me in PM that Shar's claimed 2 PM ability is simply house PMs. House have 3 people. The 2 PM ability isn't house PMs or it would be 3. ggnore
And look at this.
REGARDLESS of the nonexistent nature of Sharrant's "ability", how is this EVER a scumslip???
There is nothing scummy at all about Xatalos making a "mistake" like this. There is no way that ANYONE could EVER believe there is. This is NOT a townie thinking he found a scumslip, because this bears no resemblance to an actual scumslip at all. This is scum FAKING finding a scumslip because they can get away with it and think it will give them town points (oh, look).
Risen has done nothing all game except call people scum without any logical thinking whatsoever. This is NOT what town does.
Townies always have SOME semblance of logic behind their posts, regardless of whether it's twisted and wrong. Scum are willing to do whatever they need so they can get the reads that benefit them the most.
Are you actually going to let scum get away with saying random shit that doesn't make sense?
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On August 15 2013 05:34 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:28 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:24 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
From iamperfection's last will:
"Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though."
I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him? Wait what? My vote is on SnB. On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions?
your other answers fall into the category:
[quote] From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! I hate people ignoring my case so please link me to or write out exactly what you want answered and I will do so. well, its kind of hard to talk to you about my case on you when what i want is for other people to pay attention to it but the last interaction anyone had with me about it was this convo with rayn which he abandoned: On August 13 2013 05:01 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:31 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:22 strongandbig wrote:
rayn can you explain why you have a town read on risen?
Do you really think his first reads post could come from scum!Risen? Basically because of that. yes i do and i said why did you read my post? Yes i read your post. First you say Risen is scum for calling out anti-town behavior (Oats/yamato/DI). not for calling out anti-town behavior. For calling people "scum" because they're playing badly as town, not because of actual behaviors that indicate they are scum. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sounds good. You are also saying he should know their meta. Afaik the guy has had a long break from mafia (correct me if i am wrong here). People (aside me) tend to forget how people play in games, just look at Titanic where i was trying to confirm Oats in a way or another from the game he played a couple of weeks ago. Didn´t work. So calling out anti-town behavior without looking into players last games makes him mafia?
well, if he really had forgotten everything about those players then my "should have known better" point wouldn't be correct. I don't think it's that easy to forget things like "this player gets in fights" or especially to forget dandel ion. but anyway, even if that is the case - there's still the fact that an experienced player would, if they were town, know that townies get in fights and fuck up the thread too, and that spamming doesn't make you scum. Come on rayn, making cases against bad play rather than scum-motivated play is scum 101 and that's what risen was doing here, whether or not he knew anyone's meta. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Then there is a connection case. You said townies can do that too. That´s right. Did you check if Risen does that as town? As scum? At least you didn´t tell that in your case. If you are gonna tell Risen is scum for something both town/mafia do, at least provide some evidence.
that's why this was a minor point, it's something that both town and scum do but scum are more likely to do it than townies are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Huge post - makes him scum how? i never said it did, i was trying to explain why it doesn't make him town. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
"Easy reads" for anti town behavior - makes him scum how?
duh. if someone is choosing easy targets and making easy cases against them, it's because that person is not actually trying to find real scum but just trying to look like they are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How is Risen´s post "constructed and careful"?
compare it to the entire rest of his filter. he obviously spent more time on that post than on anything else he's done - it's much longer, but also (for example) he uses quotes more (the only place he uses quotes as examples rather than things to respond to). and yet he spends all that effort making terrible, scummy reads. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The only thing that holds water in your post is that he has not explained / pursued his reads. Fuck, a half of the playerbase doesn´t even seem to have reads. If you think Risen´s reads are bad, why don´t you question him on them? Instead you want to hear from people who have been in contact with him?? Why? Why not from him? i want to hear from people who have been in contact with him because maybe he's been putting more effort into his reads and the game outside of the thread. those people can give me information that i can't get from reading his filter. i fully expect him to answer my case but i shouldn't have to ask for it specifically, should i? Well I'm trying to talk to you so you'll change your view on me. Maybe through that interaction other people find me more or less scummy or support your case more or less because they find my answers satisfactory or not. I'd like you to ask me questions and I will answer them, or I'd like you to point me to what needs to be answered.
Also, his was posted when Risen was voting snb. Does this sound like someone talking to their scumread to you?
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On August 15 2013 10:49 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:34 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:28 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:24 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't?
To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him? Wait what? My vote is on SnB. On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
From iamperfection's last will:
"Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though."
I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! I hate people ignoring my case so please link me to or write out exactly what you want answered and I will do so. well, its kind of hard to talk to you about my case on you when what i want is for other people to pay attention to it but the last interaction anyone had with me about it was this convo with rayn which he abandoned: On August 13 2013 05:01 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:31 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:22 strongandbig wrote:
rayn can you explain why you have a town read on risen?
Do you really think his first reads post could come from scum!Risen? Basically because of that. yes i do and i said why did you read my post? Yes i read your post. First you say Risen is scum for calling out anti-town behavior (Oats/yamato/DI). not for calling out anti-town behavior. For calling people "scum" because they're playing badly as town, not because of actual behaviors that indicate they are scum. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sounds good. You are also saying he should know their meta. Afaik the guy has had a long break from mafia (correct me if i am wrong here). People (aside me) tend to forget how people play in games, just look at Titanic where i was trying to confirm Oats in a way or another from the game he played a couple of weeks ago. Didn´t work. So calling out anti-town behavior without looking into players last games makes him mafia?
well, if he really had forgotten everything about those players then my "should have known better" point wouldn't be correct. I don't think it's that easy to forget things like "this player gets in fights" or especially to forget dandel ion. but anyway, even if that is the case - there's still the fact that an experienced player would, if they were town, know that townies get in fights and fuck up the thread too, and that spamming doesn't make you scum. Come on rayn, making cases against bad play rather than scum-motivated play is scum 101 and that's what risen was doing here, whether or not he knew anyone's meta. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Then there is a connection case. You said townies can do that too. That´s right. Did you check if Risen does that as town? As scum? At least you didn´t tell that in your case. If you are gonna tell Risen is scum for something both town/mafia do, at least provide some evidence.
that's why this was a minor point, it's something that both town and scum do but scum are more likely to do it than townies are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Huge post - makes him scum how? i never said it did, i was trying to explain why it doesn't make him town. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
"Easy reads" for anti town behavior - makes him scum how?
duh. if someone is choosing easy targets and making easy cases against them, it's because that person is not actually trying to find real scum but just trying to look like they are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How is Risen´s post "constructed and careful"?
compare it to the entire rest of his filter. he obviously spent more time on that post than on anything else he's done - it's much longer, but also (for example) he uses quotes more (the only place he uses quotes as examples rather than things to respond to). and yet he spends all that effort making terrible, scummy reads. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The only thing that holds water in your post is that he has not explained / pursued his reads. Fuck, a half of the playerbase doesn´t even seem to have reads. If you think Risen´s reads are bad, why don´t you question him on them? Instead you want to hear from people who have been in contact with him?? Why? Why not from him? i want to hear from people who have been in contact with him because maybe he's been putting more effort into his reads and the game outside of the thread. those people can give me information that i can't get from reading his filter. i fully expect him to answer my case but i shouldn't have to ask for it specifically, should i? Well I'm trying to talk to you so you'll change your view on me. Maybe through that interaction other people find me more or less scummy or support your case more or less because they find my answers satisfactory or not. I'd like you to ask me questions and I will answer them, or I'd like you to point me to what needs to be answered. Also, his was posted when Risen was voting snb. Does this sound like someone talking to their scumread to you?
Yes. Always give people the opportunity to talk. Worst case your view stays the same. Best case a now town read talks you out of lynching them.
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And Chrom your version falls apart when you realize Sharrant gave Acro the option of Yamato and kush. He wasn't hoping for anything. Nice try?
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On August 15 2013 11:05 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 10:49 Chromatically wrote:On August 15 2013 05:34 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:28 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:24 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant?
I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive.
It's time to increase the pressure.
##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him? Wait what? My vote is on SnB. On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't?
To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! I hate people ignoring my case so please link me to or write out exactly what you want answered and I will do so. well, its kind of hard to talk to you about my case on you when what i want is for other people to pay attention to it but the last interaction anyone had with me about it was this convo with rayn which he abandoned: On August 13 2013 05:01 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:31 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:22 strongandbig wrote:
rayn can you explain why you have a town read on risen?
Do you really think his first reads post could come from scum!Risen? Basically because of that. yes i do and i said why did you read my post? Yes i read your post. First you say Risen is scum for calling out anti-town behavior (Oats/yamato/DI). not for calling out anti-town behavior. For calling people "scum" because they're playing badly as town, not because of actual behaviors that indicate they are scum. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sounds good. You are also saying he should know their meta. Afaik the guy has had a long break from mafia (correct me if i am wrong here). People (aside me) tend to forget how people play in games, just look at Titanic where i was trying to confirm Oats in a way or another from the game he played a couple of weeks ago. Didn´t work. So calling out anti-town behavior without looking into players last games makes him mafia?
well, if he really had forgotten everything about those players then my "should have known better" point wouldn't be correct. I don't think it's that easy to forget things like "this player gets in fights" or especially to forget dandel ion. but anyway, even if that is the case - there's still the fact that an experienced player would, if they were town, know that townies get in fights and fuck up the thread too, and that spamming doesn't make you scum. Come on rayn, making cases against bad play rather than scum-motivated play is scum 101 and that's what risen was doing here, whether or not he knew anyone's meta. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Then there is a connection case. You said townies can do that too. That´s right. Did you check if Risen does that as town? As scum? At least you didn´t tell that in your case. If you are gonna tell Risen is scum for something both town/mafia do, at least provide some evidence.
that's why this was a minor point, it's something that both town and scum do but scum are more likely to do it than townies are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Huge post - makes him scum how? i never said it did, i was trying to explain why it doesn't make him town. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
"Easy reads" for anti town behavior - makes him scum how?
duh. if someone is choosing easy targets and making easy cases against them, it's because that person is not actually trying to find real scum but just trying to look like they are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How is Risen´s post "constructed and careful"?
compare it to the entire rest of his filter. he obviously spent more time on that post than on anything else he's done - it's much longer, but also (for example) he uses quotes more (the only place he uses quotes as examples rather than things to respond to). and yet he spends all that effort making terrible, scummy reads. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The only thing that holds water in your post is that he has not explained / pursued his reads. Fuck, a half of the playerbase doesn´t even seem to have reads. If you think Risen´s reads are bad, why don´t you question him on them? Instead you want to hear from people who have been in contact with him?? Why? Why not from him? i want to hear from people who have been in contact with him because maybe he's been putting more effort into his reads and the game outside of the thread. those people can give me information that i can't get from reading his filter. i fully expect him to answer my case but i shouldn't have to ask for it specifically, should i? Well I'm trying to talk to you so you'll change your view on me. Maybe through that interaction other people find me more or less scummy or support your case more or less because they find my answers satisfactory or not. I'd like you to ask me questions and I will answer them, or I'd like you to point me to what needs to be answered. Also, his was posted when Risen was voting snb. Does this sound like someone talking to their scumread to you? Yes. Always give people the opportunity to talk. Worst case your view stays the same. Best case a now town read talks you out of lynching them.
Still reading, but this is not what you said. You said you wanted to keep talking so his read on YOU might change, not so your read on him might change.
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On August 15 2013 11:08 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 11:05 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 10:49 Chromatically wrote:On August 15 2013 05:34 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:28 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:24 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:
[quote]
seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him? Wait what? My vote is on SnB. On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant?
I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive.
It's time to increase the pressure.
##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! I hate people ignoring my case so please link me to or write out exactly what you want answered and I will do so. well, its kind of hard to talk to you about my case on you when what i want is for other people to pay attention to it but the last interaction anyone had with me about it was this convo with rayn which he abandoned: On August 13 2013 05:01 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:31 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:22 strongandbig wrote:
rayn can you explain why you have a town read on risen?
Do you really think his first reads post could come from scum!Risen? Basically because of that. yes i do and i said why did you read my post? Yes i read your post. First you say Risen is scum for calling out anti-town behavior (Oats/yamato/DI). not for calling out anti-town behavior. For calling people "scum" because they're playing badly as town, not because of actual behaviors that indicate they are scum. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sounds good. You are also saying he should know their meta. Afaik the guy has had a long break from mafia (correct me if i am wrong here). People (aside me) tend to forget how people play in games, just look at Titanic where i was trying to confirm Oats in a way or another from the game he played a couple of weeks ago. Didn´t work. So calling out anti-town behavior without looking into players last games makes him mafia?
well, if he really had forgotten everything about those players then my "should have known better" point wouldn't be correct. I don't think it's that easy to forget things like "this player gets in fights" or especially to forget dandel ion. but anyway, even if that is the case - there's still the fact that an experienced player would, if they were town, know that townies get in fights and fuck up the thread too, and that spamming doesn't make you scum. Come on rayn, making cases against bad play rather than scum-motivated play is scum 101 and that's what risen was doing here, whether or not he knew anyone's meta. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Then there is a connection case. You said townies can do that too. That´s right. Did you check if Risen does that as town? As scum? At least you didn´t tell that in your case. If you are gonna tell Risen is scum for something both town/mafia do, at least provide some evidence.
that's why this was a minor point, it's something that both town and scum do but scum are more likely to do it than townies are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Huge post - makes him scum how? i never said it did, i was trying to explain why it doesn't make him town. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
"Easy reads" for anti town behavior - makes him scum how?
duh. if someone is choosing easy targets and making easy cases against them, it's because that person is not actually trying to find real scum but just trying to look like they are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How is Risen´s post "constructed and careful"?
compare it to the entire rest of his filter. he obviously spent more time on that post than on anything else he's done - it's much longer, but also (for example) he uses quotes more (the only place he uses quotes as examples rather than things to respond to). and yet he spends all that effort making terrible, scummy reads. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The only thing that holds water in your post is that he has not explained / pursued his reads. Fuck, a half of the playerbase doesn´t even seem to have reads. If you think Risen´s reads are bad, why don´t you question him on them? Instead you want to hear from people who have been in contact with him?? Why? Why not from him? i want to hear from people who have been in contact with him because maybe he's been putting more effort into his reads and the game outside of the thread. those people can give me information that i can't get from reading his filter. i fully expect him to answer my case but i shouldn't have to ask for it specifically, should i? Well I'm trying to talk to you so you'll change your view on me. Maybe through that interaction other people find me more or less scummy or support your case more or less because they find my answers satisfactory or not. I'd like you to ask me questions and I will answer them, or I'd like you to point me to what needs to be answered. Also, his was posted when Risen was voting snb. Does this sound like someone talking to their scumread to you? Yes. Always give people the opportunity to talk. Worst case your view stays the same. Best case a now town read talks you out of lynching them. Still reading, but this is not what you said. You said you wanted to keep talking so his read on YOU might change, not so your read on him might change.
What...
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On August 15 2013 11:09 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 11:08 s0Lstice wrote:On August 15 2013 11:05 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 10:49 Chromatically wrote:On August 15 2013 05:34 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:28 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:24 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:
[quote]
You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him? Wait what? My vote is on SnB. On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:
[quote]
seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! I hate people ignoring my case so please link me to or write out exactly what you want answered and I will do so. well, its kind of hard to talk to you about my case on you when what i want is for other people to pay attention to it but the last interaction anyone had with me about it was this convo with rayn which he abandoned: On August 13 2013 05:01 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:31 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
[quote]
Do you really think his first reads post could come from scum!Risen? Basically because of that. yes i do and i said why did you read my post? Yes i read your post. First you say Risen is scum for calling out anti-town behavior (Oats/yamato/DI). not for calling out anti-town behavior. For calling people "scum" because they're playing badly as town, not because of actual behaviors that indicate they are scum. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sounds good. You are also saying he should know their meta. Afaik the guy has had a long break from mafia (correct me if i am wrong here). People (aside me) tend to forget how people play in games, just look at Titanic where i was trying to confirm Oats in a way or another from the game he played a couple of weeks ago. Didn´t work. So calling out anti-town behavior without looking into players last games makes him mafia?
well, if he really had forgotten everything about those players then my "should have known better" point wouldn't be correct. I don't think it's that easy to forget things like "this player gets in fights" or especially to forget dandel ion. but anyway, even if that is the case - there's still the fact that an experienced player would, if they were town, know that townies get in fights and fuck up the thread too, and that spamming doesn't make you scum. Come on rayn, making cases against bad play rather than scum-motivated play is scum 101 and that's what risen was doing here, whether or not he knew anyone's meta. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Then there is a connection case. You said townies can do that too. That´s right. Did you check if Risen does that as town? As scum? At least you didn´t tell that in your case. If you are gonna tell Risen is scum for something both town/mafia do, at least provide some evidence.
that's why this was a minor point, it's something that both town and scum do but scum are more likely to do it than townies are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Huge post - makes him scum how? i never said it did, i was trying to explain why it doesn't make him town. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
"Easy reads" for anti town behavior - makes him scum how?
duh. if someone is choosing easy targets and making easy cases against them, it's because that person is not actually trying to find real scum but just trying to look like they are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How is Risen´s post "constructed and careful"?
compare it to the entire rest of his filter. he obviously spent more time on that post than on anything else he's done - it's much longer, but also (for example) he uses quotes more (the only place he uses quotes as examples rather than things to respond to). and yet he spends all that effort making terrible, scummy reads. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The only thing that holds water in your post is that he has not explained / pursued his reads. Fuck, a half of the playerbase doesn´t even seem to have reads. If you think Risen´s reads are bad, why don´t you question him on them? Instead you want to hear from people who have been in contact with him?? Why? Why not from him? i want to hear from people who have been in contact with him because maybe he's been putting more effort into his reads and the game outside of the thread. those people can give me information that i can't get from reading his filter. i fully expect him to answer my case but i shouldn't have to ask for it specifically, should i? Well I'm trying to talk to you so you'll change your view on me. Maybe through that interaction other people find me more or less scummy or support your case more or less because they find my answers satisfactory or not. I'd like you to ask me questions and I will answer them, or I'd like you to point me to what needs to be answered. Also, his was posted when Risen was voting snb. Does this sound like someone talking to their scumread to you? Yes. Always give people the opportunity to talk. Worst case your view stays the same. Best case a now town read talks you out of lynching them. Still reading, but this is not what you said. You said you wanted to keep talking so his read on YOU might change, not so your read on him might change. What...
It's in the quote lol
'I'm trying to talk to you so you'll change your view on me.'
This is a guy that your vote is on currently. You are now trying to say that you keep him talking so he can show you he is town and show you your vote is placed erroneously. What you actually said is...let's keep keep talking so your (and everyone elses) opinion on me might change.
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That's the exact same thing...
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yea nope
you were concerned with his read on you, not your read on him.
two veeeery different things
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You're not that dense, so I'm going to let you figure it out on your own.
^is what I typed out and almost hit post. I'm going to explain it because I've been continuously reminded of my own advice this game that not everyone thinks the way you do.
Him talking to me to change my view is the same as me talking to him to change his view. People should always be given the chance to talk and be heard so that views can continually be evolving.
I feel like I've been giving clinic after clinic this game. Not necessarily my gameplay, but all the advice I've given on how to play as town.
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On August 15 2013 11:13 s0Lstice wrote:
yea nope
you were concerned with his read on you, not your read on him.
two veeeery different things
They're the same thing. You're reading too much into this and obs is laughing at you.
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no.
if you think he is scum, which you must have since you were voting him, then you shouldn't give two shits about what his read on you is. make sense?
'my dearest scum read...I'm concerned with your read on me even though I think you're scum and your reads are therefore bullshit.'
so either you don't care what his read on you is, or your vote was a sham because you didn't actually think he was scum.
I agree that townies should keep talking to their scum reads to make sure they have it right, but I don't see a townie approaching this by being concerned with how his scumread is supposedly reading him.
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also chrom where did you go? this concerns you..
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EPT
