EPTAnyhow
/in
I Swear This Is Normal Mini Mafia 2
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Lazermonkey
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Anyhow /in | ||
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Edit: Ah, yhea 06:00 is better I'd say. | ||
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got 1 mason partner, no more no less. scum got 3 players. Every scum player is paired with a town player. Which doesn't seem very unresonable to me. This means that scum already knows 3 of the mason pairs. Claiming our QTs means that scum will know 3 more QTs by having everyone to claim but town will know 5 more QTs. This is a very favourable trade off for town. Also, more openess is almost always a positive thing for town. Another thing we could discuss is revealing all posts from the QTs every night. This is an idea we used in Mad men mafia, where we had 6 millers (the ones who chooses a player every day to chat with, not these types, but still) in a 24 player game. Some time before the NK one of the players outed every post made in the QT the last 72 hours. Not only did this give more information to work with for the thread but it also prevents scum from faking posts in the QT if the partner dies. I haven't really analyzed this idea too much, but I think it is probably a good one. | ||
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On July 24 2013 17:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't. I assumed it. Thats why I wrote that I assumed it -.-. And don't start with this "herp, town doesn't know that therefore scum, derp". Do you not think it is a resonable assumption that every scum maison is paired with a townie?Lazer, how do you know scum are paired with townies? | ||
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On July 24 2013 15:20 FirmTofu wrote: Its like he wanted to test the waters with the first post and then when he saw an opportunity in rayn's post he just jumped on it. This was ShiaoPi's only post at the time and he didn't post anything in between the two posts of FirmTofu, yet it takes Firm 1 hour and 20 minutes to say that he is suspicious of ShaioPi as well. And he was still in the thread during these 80 minutes. he just didn't comment on the matter. I agree with rayn. The claim rubs me the wrong way. I don't understand it. SNIP ##Vote: FirmTofu | ||
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On July 24 2013 20:29 Malongo wrote: I'm sorry, I literally don't understand this post at all. Like not even a single bit. I'm no veteran and even if I were, why is my way of presenting suspicions scummy? Isn't the mason pairing random? at least I got paired with some random dude. And what do you mean with "he thought what was actually "good" for the mafia (1 on 1 pairings)."I meant that he looks more mafioso. The way he presented his suppositions were far more suspicious than a player claiming vet day1. My first thought was that the mason pairing was random and I didnt even realize that mafia doesnt need to mason, but he went all the way a step further: he thought what was actually "good" for the mafia (1 on 1 pairings). | ||
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Why would you ask about koshi? it doesn't fucking make any sense at all. What diferentiated him from everyone else who had not posted at that point? You don't make any sense at all. | ||
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On July 24 2013 21:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: you are correct, you didn't. You said it was scumy or stupid. Its none of that. Its just a null tell. You shouldn't really make a deal of it but you did. That is why people are suspecting you. Really, try to think the situation through for one sec. He really could have any fucking role in the game while claiming VT. It doesn't confirm him as anything. I am saying you are saying so. I am not familiar with the Kenpachi rule and i don't even care because i did not call you scummy because of your claim. God, why is that so hard to understand? | ||
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On July 24 2013 21:18 Dandel Ion wrote: Yhea but the thing ShiaoPi doesn't know isn't his stuff : )There's lotta things rayn doesn't know. But there are also things Shiaopi doesn't know. | ||
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On July 24 2013 21:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Well, I need to read better I guess -.-I said Rayn and Firm are scum because kenpachi gambit. That's two scum already. You guys can find the rest. Your stuff is weak. | ||
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On July 24 2013 21:01 Lazermonkey wrote: Malango plzI'm sorry, I literally don't understand this post at all. Like not even a single bit. I'm no veteran and even if I were, why is my way of presenting suspicions scummy? Isn't the mason pairing random? at least I got paired with some random dude. And what do you mean with "he thought what was actually "good" for the mafia (1 on 1 pairings)." | ||
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Regarding policy lynching the mason who kills his partner and he flips town. Well, this is just bad. The same way you wouldn't lynch a vigi who kills town. Even though he might not kill scum he saves us one misslynch if he kills a top suspect. If he kills someone without a very good reason and that person flips town, then we should obviously look into that player. But policy lyncing someone who kills town is a big no-no! | ||
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On July 25 2013 03:16 Rainbows wrote: I think you're making Koshi's policy bigger than it is. He proposes we only kill random mason kills not on towns consensus. And that's fine, as long as nobody random kills. I want to use the mason-KP as a way of double lynch, and hopefully nobody fucks with that. Even if you are town and about to get lynched don't martyr-KP your mason, we can always do that later if he's suspicious. If you're about to get mason killed by the consensus of town and are town, think of it as a double lynch --- you're denying town information by denying your flip. Anyway, I think scum have more motivation to mason kill if they are about to be killed in any way lynch or otherwise. If you're town and strike town with your mason kill martyr-KP then only shit can ensue imo. Well this is wrong IMO. Unless I'm really sure that my partner is town (and to be realistic, this is D1 noone is going to be THAT certain) then the correct play is to kill your partner and hope that he flips scum. If not, bad luck but at least you've got yourself 72 extra hours to argue yourself out of the lynch. But let's ignore that for the time being. Too much setup speculation and policy talk and too little scum hunting... | ||
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On July 25 2013 03:34 Stutters695 wrote: Its inplicit that you try to argue yourself out of the lynch. But if you are about to die you really shoul kill your partner. Even if we would introduce stupid policy about lynching anyone who doesn't kill scum with mason kill, then so what? It is a situation where you have nothing to lose. Either you hit town and you might die, which you would've done anyway this day. Or you hit scum and its party time.No, in that case the best play for a town who is going to get mason viged is to talk his way out of it before the shot. If it is clear that using the vig unless authorized by town is treated as a scum claim than any town who shoots so he doesn't die is throwing the game and I don't think anyone in this is that dumb. | ||
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On July 25 2013 02:17 Stutters695 wrote: And Malago's play is scum indicative because...? I agree his early play was WIERD. But why the actual fuck would he do stuff like that if he would be scum? It would be even wierder. And bolded part: how do you know this was not the case?Anyway I'd totally be game to lynch Mal until he explains better why he thought it was a good idea to try and get someone killed so early in the day. If this was an attempt at a play from a town to force discussion the obvious choice is to not actually PM the host and just say you did so he'd contribute before he died. Something doesn't add up. ##vote: Malango This is the only time you've ever scum hunted despite having several posts where you discuss policy/setup/defending random dudes/fluff. I'm not impressed at all. | ||
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On July 25 2013 03:50 Z-BosoN wrote: THIS GUYCan we just set the kill mechanic aside and label it as a vig shot? If you think about it, it's not a discussion that's going to be productive. HE KNOWS HIS STUFF! I'm not even kidding, we are really discussing unimportant matters at the moment. | ||
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On July 25 2013 04:08 Stutters695 wrote: Like I said, I don't care about this anymore. Feel free to keep this opinion of your but keep in mind that this policy is useless unless everyone accepts it. And there are already alot of guys doing so. This really feels like post game discussion TBH. Its very likely that someone will use this power during the day anyway, no matter if you like it or not. Now, comment on something else.Being irresponsible with a vig shot because "you have nothing to lose" is not a good play at all. If you don't let it happen and don't hit scum you're responsible for a mislynch+1 town death and wasted the entire day. We don't have to use the vig but shooting unless you're sure someone is scum is straight retarded if you are town. | ||
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On July 25 2013 04:12 Z-BosoN wrote: Don't know really. Maybe I'll look it up later. Here is the link anyway: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404818I see. How would you compare his playstyle/activity in that game and in this one? | ||
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On July 25 2013 04:15 Koshi wrote: Lolno. Its in like 33 hours.Isn't the deadline in 30 hours from now? | ||
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On July 25 2013 04:23 Koshi wrote: Well, Ange is clearly noob.Last mod message said 12 hours. | ||
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On July 25 2013 04:37 Koshi wrote: I really don't see how any of these would be alignment indicative... Can you explain?raynpelikoneet 1) Hard defening the Kenpachi claim from ShiaoPi. To a point he Rayn votes #ShiaoPi 2) After backing off from ShiaoPi, Rayn thinks FirmTofy is scummy for the reason he was discussing with ShiaoPi. (Kenpachi rule) 3) Getting "killed" by Malongo but not finding it strange that a town player would kill somebody out of the blue. (No pressure from Rayn to Malongo) 4) Leaving the thread with pointing fingers at Sylencia, who I don't find suspicious at all. (Unless Sylencia is a vet and normally finds scum within 12 hours) Malongo Killing somebody out of the blue, but then backing off because it was rayn? What's that all about. | ||
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##unvote ##vote: stutters Everyone else, give your opinion on stutters please! | ||
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On July 25 2013 05:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: It doesn't. But tha's why I'm more confident in killing stutters than Sylencia. Stutters playing scummy would (if my theory about Sylencia being more of a lynch bait than stutters, that is) make him more likely to be scum than if Sylencia was playing scummy.Ehh. Lazer, how does someone being a lynchbait if town make them town, or not worth lynching? Regarding the vigi-double-lynch discussion. Rainbows had a couple of really bad posts in that one. | ||
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On July 25 2013 05:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: That and that the fact that he is was actively ignoring any form of scum hunting.So your only reason for Stuytters being more scummy than Sylencia is because Sylencia is more of a lynchbait than Stutters? | ||
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Koshi, if Rayn and Malango really are scum, why don't you try to convince us that they are? | ||
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On July 25 2013 06:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:SNIP I was about to write some stuff but realized my argument was really bad. You are correct in that they are both ignoring scum hunting. Still, I would be more comfortable with killing Stutters.Lazer: I already asked this, but. How is Stutters ignoring any form of scumhunting but Sylencia is not? | ||
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On July 25 2013 06:47 Stutters695 wrote: Yhea, I can come up with a 2 really good reasons.I'm assuming this is what you say I'm ignoring. The bolded part: If true then he lied about sending a PM to kill someone then sending another to cancel it. This isn't likely at all from either perspective as it creates a lie that is easily verifiable and would cause his lynch/mislynch over nothing. Thus I assume he actually did send the PM. Why would he send that PM as either alignment? Town: He's taking a shot on the 3/11 probability of hitting scum. Unlikely without some other plan. It certainly wasn't to pressure a lurker since the game had been only going for a couple hours. Scum: He thinks it's a good idea to take the free KP before town uses it. Sends in the PM and tells his scum buddies. They flip their shit since their KP probably drops to 1 at 2 scum and we'd lynch him for a clearly retarded shot and they would actually lose KP so he reneged on his shot. I don't see any town explanation that comes even close to the scum one so I think he's scum unless he has a damn good reason for it 1. It forces Rayn in a wierd spot. If he was to be scum he might panic and actually belive he will get shot. In that case he might stop posting completely (something rayn did not do) to avoid giving unnecesary information to town. 2. It creates discussion at a point where too much effort was spent on pointless policy discussions. Also, regarding the PM thing. Sure it would create a lie that we could verify but why the fuck should we lynch him for that? He could at any time claim that he lied and there would be no big deal about it. Also, you say that from an optimal pov town shouldn't do this, and even if assume that that IS the optimal play, there is nothing that would guarantee that he would do that. Town are, in my experience, much more inclined to do random "dumb" stuff like this without thinking it through 100% because they aren't so afraid of getting lynched as scum are. | ||
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Yes, why couldn't he be lying? Give me one reason. Why cannot prove him false anyway. His claim means jack shit. And why are you ignoring the fact that this is a fucking closed setup? There could be 9 VT claiming and for all we know it could actually be correct because we don't know what setup this is. Also, lynch all liars is a terrible policy. lying about being VT in this setup isn't alignment indicative at all. It doesn't hurt town or help scum. Its 100% null. I don't think you are the best lynch atm, read the thread better please. And lastly, HOW DID THIS MAKE ME SCUMMY? | ||
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On July 25 2013 07:32 FirmTofu wrote: That wasn't really your point at all. And you got it all backwards. I was the first to suspect you but not because of the kenpachi thing but because of your wierd take on ShiaoPi's claim. ShiaoPi was the one to agree with my suspicions on you. At this point I didn't think Shiao was town, just null. It was first later on when during his interactions with Rayn when I thought he was town, I still do. I don't see how this doesn't make any sense.I know you don't think I'm the best lynch anymore, but at one point, you did. Of course he can be lying. It is a possibility. My point is, why did you feel the need to specifically point it out and then proceed to buddy him for a lynch of me? If SP's claim is truly null to you, why did you act as if he was town and I was scum? Your behavior doesn't make any sense. Also, why am I scummy? | ||
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On July 25 2013 07:36 Stutters695 wrote: 1. Yes, but this is once again assuming perfect play. With perfect scum play it would be impossible to ever lynch scum. The reason we can do so IS because scum makes mistakes. And being put in a trap, especially when you can be under stress could definitly cause mistakes. @Lazer 1) it doesn't affect Rayn at all IMO. If he's scum he has to assume he'll live since otherwise he has to explain why he checked out when he wasn't dead. If he's town it makes no difference. 2) It did not really create content. He didn't even tell us it happened. That clearly isn't with the intent of discussion if he never discussed it. There is a difference between sub-optimal play and play that has no value to town. 2. There is a diference between "it didn't create content" and "it was susposed to create content". | ||
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Some quick thoughts Guys I'm having town reads on: Rayn ShaioPi Z-Boson Have all put in a resonable amount of effort and their logic seems okay in most cases, I wouldn't want to lynch any of these guys today Guys that are neutral: Dandel Artanis (though mostly because i haven't read him) Rainbows (while his post about policy was bad, I think his play in general has been decent) Guys that makes my brain hurt: Malongo koshi Both these guys have the wierdest logic, haven't pushed their scum reads etc. I just don't know what to think really... In one hand I do think their play is bad and maybe even scummy. At the same time, I get a feeling that they are both quite inexperienced (have someone played with these before? am I correct about this?) and they are both getting alot of attention to themself, which I generally don't see scum do. Guys I'm okay with lynching: Stutters Sylencia FirmTofu In order of preferance, read my filter for why I want to kill them... | ||
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On July 24 2013 21:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I said Rayn and Firm are scum because kenpachi gambit. That's two scum already. You guys can find the rest. Your stuff is weak. On July 25 2013 00:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Doubtful, it's creating actual scumhunting discussion where setup discussion was taking place. Shiao is probably town. That's not what's happening, it's helped trigger scumhunting. On July 25 2013 09:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote: All these times he clearly disagrees with said player, yet he is very reluctant to be taking an actual stance on the player. If he would think that these players are town, then I don't really see any problem with these posts because then he could be leading the thread in the right direction. But he doesn't have a town read on them, at least not that we know of. If pressuring without voting is scummy then you're looking pretty scummy according to your own logic. You should probably get that logic checked out. I want to hear Malongo talk about things that aren't about speed dating pairings. Dandel is probably town but my feelings are hurt that he called me scum. I'm sad now. I'm a bit torn on Artanis right now. He looks somewhat bad though I don't think I want to lynch him. | ||
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Also, there are alot of guys agreeing with my logic here which you even point out yourself. Why is it that I am scummy but not them? Do you seriously think scum would be the one to start the "suicidal and very stupid plan" and that a bunch of townies just sheeped it. Because I would actually argue its the other way around. Scum are very afraid of saying stuff that could cause them to look bad, like a "suicidal and very stupid plan", however if a plan like that is started by a townie then they could very well be sheeping that. | ||
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On July 26 2013 00:02 Sylencia wrote: You just went full retard, never go full retard...I've already read it, and I explained how the post is literally setup to help scum. The reason why people agree is because it sounds sensible. Someone's about to die, and so they'll take the shot because they think their partner is scum. Sounds great in theory, but if you think about how it's done in practice it's a crappy idea. Also, plans aren't about how suicidal they are, it's about how well you can sell the idea. It's the same with pushing for a lynch - if you're convincing enough you'll push the wagon all the way and everyone will hop on. In any case, completely brushing off the possibility that one team can perform an action because it's high risk is silly, I prefer to keep an open mind about things. Great, you know this happens in most of the games I'm in already having played with me a few times, where I find it difficult to properly find reads. Rather than rehashing the same argument over and over again, how about you target someone you know isn't lynchbait every game. Like literally everything in this post is just so fucking BS I cannot even believe it. Its mind blowing really. Take a step back and look through everything and try to have an open mind. Its clear at this point that you are either scum panicing or town in super-tunnel-bias mode. Let me brake this down for you. I'm not even going to comment on the policy thing. I heavily disagree with you as you know but its not even relevant at this point. As I said before, you must understand that those types of policies really requires everyone to accept in order to actually be valuable. This is simple logic. Right now, you'll have to convince alot of guys to do that. And you aren't trying. So this policy really means nothing whether you like it or not. The second part. Well, your are being super dumb once again. I never said scum couldn't be doing something like this. Let me summerize our conversation really fast You: Lazer is scum because his idea helps scum Me: Well, even if we ignore the fact that it doesn't help scum, why does this mean that just I am scum? What about the other guys on the wagon? In my experience scum are more likely to be sheeping a bad idea of a townie that to be the one who is starting a bad idea that THEN gets sheeped by townies. You: Just because its high risk for scum doesn't mean they cannot do that. So what are we left with? Well I STILL DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE HOW YOU COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT I AM SCUM! Please explain why I am scum, why those who aren't on the wagon aren't scum. How does any of your arguments show that I am scum instead of missguided townie? Disagreeing with someone doesn't mean that that person is scum... Also if you think that what convinces people that a plan or a lynch is correct is just the amount of time and dedication you put into it, then you are really really stupid. A bad argument should never ever convince a whole town no matter how much you try to convince everyone. The last part Rayn already talked about. You can't argue yourself out of all suspiciouns just by saying you are a lynch bait because if you did, you would win every time you were scum... | ||
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On July 26 2013 00:56 FirmTofu wrote: We really realy should consolidate though. If we split our votes up more then every scum vote will be relatively stronger. Also, if you just vote your biggest scum read but that read happend to be someone who isn't gaining alot of votes, you are indirectly voting for the player with the most votes at the time. You might have to go for a guy thats not your top scum read but rather your second or third to prevent guys you don't think are scummy to get lynched. We should aim to pin the pynch between 2 players or at tops 3. Everyone should comment on ALL of the candidates and say in which one they want to lynch the most, second most etc. And we really should do it ASAP as alot of guys will not be able to attend at the deadline. I will try to be there but I can't really promise and I have full respect, especially for the europeans, if they are unable to attend.We don't necessarily need to consolidate because it's plurality lynch. You should be voting your biggest scum read, not sheeping a wagon. For me the list is currently: Stutters Sylencia FT Artanis or maybe Koshi | ||
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On July 26 2013 04:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is a diference though. I would really want to kill stutters but I don't see him as a realistic lynch for today. Sylencia might not be optimal either, at least if what ShiaoPi writes is correct i.e. that he ups his play the longer the game goes. I think todays lynch is between Firmtofu or Artanis. So lazer, we need to consolidate on 2/3 players and you bring up 5. rofl, what's that? Currently: Sylencia Koshi | ||
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On July 26 2013 04:44 Stutters695 wrote: I didn't say my reasons for lynching you over Syl was bad though. I said that my reason BESIDES the lynch bait point was bad. But the lynch bait point isn't bad. Look at Sylencias profile, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Sylencia. He really has been lynched ALOT as town. And as a player that actually led the lynch on him, I can say that his play this game isn't extremly different from the other. I honestly don't get Lazer's hard on for lynching me. Whatever, I really doubt that will happen. Now in terms of what can happen today: Malongo (vig or lynch plz) Lazer: Despite saying his reason for lynching me over Syl was bad still wants to lynch me first. He's also failed to demonstrate how my actions are scummy outside of policy talk early on. Combined with him deciding his lynch choice off of who is less lynch bait rather than demonstrably scummy is concerning. Not really sure on a third yet. Also, why am I scum for attacking you with "bad" arguments? Are scum more inclined to use "bad" arguments? | ||
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On July 26 2013 04:47 Rainbows wrote: Word. everyone is so butthurt about people finding them scummy. lol. This really needs to go away. I am having at least three people that I can think of on top of my head that is suspecting me JUST because I attacked them Lol. You guys needs to realize that wrong=/=scum... | ||
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I might actually switch over to Artanis, I think I'd rather see him hang than Sylencia and FT... | ||
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On July 26 2013 05:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: Are you fucking stupid? No matter what alignment they have they will have to play from the PoV that I'm accusing a townie, right? And you here are saying you are accusing townies? You just got onto my list of justice. | ||
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I'm guessing FT after looking at your filter. But you hardly mention Artanis at all, the only thing you say (and rightfully so) about him is that he is jerking off Dandel... | ||
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On July 26 2013 05:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote: LOL you realize I've been the one to step on almost everyone's toes. You on the other hand...Right now, I want to lynch Lazer because he seems to be putting a lot of effort into not stepping on people's toes and making sure that the lynch doesn't go in his direction in any case. ##Vote: Lazermonkey | ||
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On July 26 2013 05:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote: And that makes me scum how? If you actually looked through my filter you would've seen that I've been stepping on alot of toes. That's why alot of guys are suspecting me. Alot of nuubs being angry when I say their play is scummy. You don't say jack shit, just jumo on the most popular wagon yet not pushing it even a centimeter foreward. And unlike them, you aren't a nuub.You've been acting as the thread moderator for the past few pages. Plz die. ##Unvote ##Vote: Artanis[Xp] | ||
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On July 26 2013 05:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: No I haven't, have you?Artanis what's your stance on Syl/Koshi? Lazer, have you seen Koshi play scum? Your townread on him is based on extremely weak and wrong reasons. Why are they weak and wrong? | ||
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On July 26 2013 05:41 Z-BosoN wrote: What? You got it all wrong... I never dropped my stutters scum read Lol. Reread my filter.Lazermonkey you originally said sylencia was lynchbait and didn't feel compelled to dwelve into him: And thus your vote was on stutters, because he was less of a lynch bait: And then you had an exchange with sylencia and now you feel he's scum, and stutters is of no interest to you anymore. But you don't want to push sylencia's lynch, saying that you think the lynch will be between FT and Artanis. Can you be specific as to why you changed your mind on stutters and can you take a stance on sylencia? You are being incredibly wishy-washy on him. I'm still somewhat suspicious of Sylencia but I'm willing to give him BOTD because he is generally a lynch bait + ShiaoPi says he plays better later on. | ||
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On July 26 2013 05:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Lol so you cannot actually think of any reason what so ever for a townie to try to controll the thread? Really? You aren't this stupid. And wtf are you talking about? I'm NOT friends with everyone. You are just saying stuff without a single fact to back it up. Yes, one vote (two with you) but if you actually did read the thread you would've seen that alot of people have called me scummy during the course of the game. That makes you scum because it's an easy place for scum to sit. You can control the lynch to make sure no scum comes close to being lynched, whereas a town player isn't interested in being friends with everyone but rather actually wants to find scum. Also, since when are you a leading wagon? I see one vote on you and it's from Sylencia. What the hell are you talking about? You are just saying so much BS right now. If you are town I'm geniunely disappointed. | ||
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On July 26 2013 05:53 Stutters695 wrote: No, I have alot of reasons to lynch you besides the lynch bait thing. But you don't read thread/is stupid/scum so you wouldn't understand... The reason I phrased it like that is because rayn asked me why I was voting you and not Sylencia because your play was very similar (something I agree with). My response was that Sylencia is a lynch bait and you are not therefore I would be more confident in killing you. So you see, if you actually start reading, it all makes sense.Because your arguments aren't trying to show a scum mindset because you know I'm town. I'd honestly consider you as my top lynch now after this response. Note the blatant contradiction: His reasons for thinking I'm scum are bad except for that I'm a better lynch than Syl because Syl is lynch bait. A reasonable assumption, except that for something as abstract as lynch bait being the deciding factor he has to think we're both scummy. Yet he just said that his only good reason for lynching me is that Syl is lynch bait. What? Now stop being mad because I wanted to lynch you and comment on Artanis... | ||
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On July 26 2013 06:15 Z-BosoN wrote: Look at Artanis play this far though. His vote on me is the first time he sticks his neck out what so ever. He basically haven't taken a conflict before this. Like Rayn said earlier, sure attacking easy targets are easy in the short perspective but in the long run, attacking more vocal players will probably be more effective.Well, to be honest I actually think artanis is town. Scum are generally careful about what they say in thread and how don't want to stick their necks out. He earlier said that "one of firm/rayn" is likely scum. Then out of the blue he decided that Lazer, someone who he didn't even mention in his filter, is a scumread. Then he gives town reads on people who earlier he said were town If I were scum the last thing I'd want to do is antagonize one of the most active people in the thread | ||
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On July 26 2013 06:21 Koshi wrote: What tha? So Artanis comes back and you suddenly don't think he is scum anymore?Agreed. I like it that Artanis came out to play. So much more fun. So. Let's find another target. I think I will be petty and look at rayn and Malongo for repeatedly trying to shift focus to me. Not that I can blame them, I am looking pretty bad. I still got a bad feeling about that whole shooting/not shooting thingie. | ||
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On July 26 2013 07:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: Exactly why are we not lynching Artanis?Also we are not lynching Artanis or Lazermonkey. | ||
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On July 26 2013 07:19 Koshi wrote: Let me rephrase, who do you want to kill the most?My vote is still on him. But I would not bet monies on Artanis being scum if I had 4:1 odds. Or is it 1:4? I am no bookmaker. | ||
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On July 26 2013 07:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: So the part where he is not taking any real stance nor pushing any scum reads is good? Or what are you meaning? Its terribly easy to make sense as scum even moresoe than town because you actually know if you are wrong or right whereas town you have to guess to some extent. Because he is making sense although his case on you i don't agree with. Can we just kill Sylencia/Koshi? Koshi is definitely most scummy from the active players. He is even himself calling his post terrible... Sylencia & Malongo are just meh and Sylencia just disappeared after he was put some pressure on him. At least Malongo lurks with style, though he is useless. I kinda want to wait with Sylencia, give him one more day. If he doesn't up his posting, I can kill him but right now, I'd rather not kill him. | ||
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On July 26 2013 07:35 Z-BosoN wrote: There is a diference though, when he made the flimsy post he wasn't being pressured. He then got called out for being very wish-washy and not scum hunting. THEN he starts to scum hunt and not being flimsy. My guess is that he wanted to show some balls by attacking me. Well, attacking vocal players is more effective if you go by my logic. However, he sounded flimsy as fuck in this post: If he is scum, this is textbook definition of "OMG I'M NOT STICKING MY NECK OUT" In this same demeanor, it's hard to imagine a scum artanis to randomly say that you are scum and thus do the exact opposite: draw attention to himself. Since I don't have much to work with day 1, it's a small tell, but I feel he's a bad lynch for today. | ||
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On July 26 2013 07:47 Z-BosoN wrote: I can think of several diferent reasons but I don't think it matters too much, I can't speak for Artanis.Well that kind of makes sense, but why didn't he antagonize Rainbow, as he was the first one to oppress artanis? If he wanted to show balls, why not do it earlier? Also, what of my bit on stutters, do you agree on it? No I still really dislike him. And I find it even more interesting that he goes away RIGHT when swaped over to Artanis. Also, think of this: Look at stutters filter and take note of his recent activity. He is really arguing HARD with me. he says I'm really scummy and that he is really considering voting me. But WHERE is his vote? on Malango, and it still is? but what does he do with it? Jack shit. And then he just leaves it there. Stutters is not interested in finding scum. Actually, I think I can kill stutters instead. Someone else wantie? | ||
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My lynch priority as for now! 1.Artanis 2.Stutters. 3.FT 4.Sylencia | ||
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On July 26 2013 08:12 Z-BosoN wrote: He has no points against me. His whole vote on me is based on the fact that I attacked him. How does that convince you? You're gonna have to be much more specific than that dude on him. It sounds more like you are angry at him rather than you think he's scum. All you said here is he is arguing hard against you, and yet his vote is not on you. I think you should be looking at the quality of his arguments. Do you agree with them? Are they logical or is he bullshitting? Stutters lurks as town and is very low on activity, normally, with the occasional good post. IMO his points against you don't look too bad, but I want to see if you think the same or not No I think he has a very high chance of being scum. Think of this: You are under no real pressure at all, you have 1(actually this is another point, he basically haven't taken a stance on anyone but me and Mal the last 24 hours...) scum read. Some dude says you are scum but noone agrees with this dude. What do you do as town? I can buy that you argue with the dude. But why isn't he interested in his scum read? He is clearly not going to get lynched yet all he cars about is defending himself. He doesn't care at all about hunting scum. And guess what alignment doesn't care about hunting scum? scum... | ||
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On July 26 2013 08:22 Koshi wrote: Naw, leave it on Artanis. Z-Boson. I do not understand what you want from me. I didn't like Artanis his lurking/trolling. When he did come back I started to look for better targets but I can't find one. I could go for a Malongo lynch. If Lazer and you agree within 5 mins I will change. Otherwise it stays on Artanis. Good night! | ||
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On July 26 2013 12:26 Rainbows wrote: Which makes it even wierded that he doesn't take a shot...Syl seems more like he doesn't want Artanis to shoot him | ||
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On July 26 2013 12:29 ShiaoPi wrote: I mean the respective mason partners are sylencia and rayn.... That's another reason why we should kill rayn, I expect a town rayn to just kill malongo instead of making us use a lynch on him, if he thinks him scummy. Right, which would indicate that Malango is town unless he is scum with Rayn. | ||
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On July 26 2013 12:31 Z-BosoN wrote: But that's not really relevant though. Is he playing to his scum meta is what is relevant...He could have scumhunted, he could have given his reads. I stated that I would keep my vote on him until he actually contributed and he didn't do shit. If he's town, he's not playing to his meta. | ||
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On July 26 2013 12:33 ShiaoPi wrote: Sorry for tripleposting but is there no chance for you to make a rayn lynch happen? No. | ||
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On July 26 2013 12:30 Rainbows wrote: I'm about to shoot Stutters because he's. useless if anyone doesn't care :p Actually, you should! If I am wrong and Malango is scum he might pm right before dead line in order to kill Rayn as well. While I don't think that is the case, I'd still much rather have stutters dead than risk Rayn dead. | ||
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On July 26 2013 12:40 Rainbows wrote: Well if this happens then I'm happy with 1-1 trade. It would be at least a 1-1 trade anyway if we assume that Malango is scum. Why not go for it? | ||
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On July 26 2013 12:42 Rainbows wrote: Then stutters needs to play better next time + You have saved us a misslynch. And if he's town and stutters is town then.... fuck? | ||
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On July 26 2013 12:44 Sylencia wrote: I didn't shoot because him not caring isn't conclusive enough to say he's scum. You guys just said he hasn't done anything, I posted the logs to show nothing happened in the QT either, and that's it. You have totally missed why I want to kill Artanis it seems... Read my filter. Kill Artanis... | ||
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On July 26 2013 12:52 Z-BosoN wrote: You have my full permission!7 minutes I'll laugh at you all if Malango is scum | ||
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I feel so fucking good now. I fucking jizzed. | ||
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With that being said, I'm going to sleep once again. | ||
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So some quick anylyze of what probably happend. Scum genrally never busses hard D1. Yes, it has been done but most of the time the simple answer is the correct one: i.e. the scum team lacked thread control and played bad. As for players. Dandel, Sylencia, Koshi and Rainbows all look really really good to me. Rayn actually looks really horrific after that lynch. Ctrl+F "Artanis" in his filter. The first two and a half pages he doesn't take a stance on him at all and barely mentions him. Now, I wouldn't say this is the biggest scum tell but when you look at the game, Artanis was a quite big topic of discussion at times. Rainbows wrote a case, Dandel pushed him. I talked a little about him. Sure, Rayn wasn't the only one NOT to talk about Artanis but I do feel its wierd that he didn't take any type of stance at all. When he suddenly posts this posts On July 26 2013 07:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: I call him out for it.This is how he answersAlso we are not lynching Artanis or Lazermonkey. On July 26 2013 07:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: This is the only time that he ever took a stance on Artanis and his explanation is so lack luster that I can't find words for it. What part of his play was logical? Why does that indicate town play? What does he think about the several points that has been brought up by everyone? He doesn't comment on that at all. Instead he proceeds to vote for Malongo who he hasn't mentioned at all prior to the lynch as well. He is first reluctant to vote him because he thinks he is just useless and would rather go for Koshi/Sylencia but in the end he votes him anyway because he rather wants to see him hang than Artanis. But we have 0 knowledge of why that is... O, that's right Artanis was "logical"...Because he is making sense although his case on you i don't agree with. Can we just kill Sylencia/Koshi? Koshi is definitely most scummy from the active players. He is even himself calling his post terrible... Sylencia & Malongo are just meh and Sylencia just disappeared after he was put some pressure on him. At least Malongo lurks with style, though he is useless. Stutters looks bad as well after this lynch. He actually never mention Artanis one single time in his filter (though he does talk about how he fell for the kenpachi rule 5 times... Not that this is relevant in any way). He doesn't push his top scum read, Malango, at all but instead argues with me. He doesn't take a stance on anyone else except for a really weak town read on Dandel very very early on. With all that being said, I'm actually getting a bit torn on Stutters, his play doesn't really make sense if he was scum. If he was, he'd knew that his scum buddy Artanis was in trouble. While a straight up defense might be out of the question at that point, why didn't he push for Malango or anyone else? At the time where he left, it was very uncertain who was getting lynched and I it was clear that Artanis was under threat, much more so than himself. I also think its semi wierd that he doesn't even try to comment on anyone. I know "too scummy to be scum" is a bad way to justify someone's innocence but why doesn't he even try to fabricate some reads? Look at Artanis for example, he actually gives out alot of reads. Some of them, his scum read on me comes to mind, felt insanely forced but he at least tried. Stutters just didn't do shit and was open about that, which actually gives me some town vibes All in all, I still think stutters look bad but not as bad as he did before... Z-Boson: TBH I haven't looked too much into this guy but my impression is that he is more likely wrong town than scum. He has been active and it seems like he is trying to figure out stuff. But it is alarming that we have so diferent reads. He also defended Artanis quite a bit. FirmTofu: I think he upped his game alot since the start. And while I don't like to make associated reads before flip, he is pushing Rayn quite a bit and seems to be certain that he is scum. With that being said though, while he didn't ignore the Malango/Artanis issue, he didn't really take a clear stance on which one of them he wantd to kill the most. He also just left his vote on Rayn which I dislike. Still quite scummy. ShiaoPi: At first, I thought he looked quite good after the lynch. His play made sense and his reads post flip were very similar to mine. However, he was at first very reluctant to comment on the Artanis/Malango issue. Actually, what gives me a really scummy feeling about him is that he close to dead line comes to the conclusion that Malango isn't scum. What does he do? Votes Rayn... WTF!? So instead of saving the guy he thinks is town by voting Artanis (and let me get this straight, he did not have a town read on Artanis or anything) He places his vote on a guy who isn't going to get lynched, which means the guy who he thinks is town IS going to get lynched. He even asks if a Rayn lynch is happening, gets the answer "no" and still leaves the vote on Rayn... I just don't know -.- Conclusion: I think we really should kill Rayn tomorrow. I'm kinda uncertain on the other guys, I want to hear them to explain their action + do some scum hunting but right now my order of lynch preference is something like this 1.Rayn 2.stutters 3.ShiaoPi/FT 5.Z-Boson Jesus, that was a long post : P | ||
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ShiaoPi Do you really think FT can be considered town just because he was attacked early by Artanis? Scum attacking each other early on in the game is not uncommon at all in my opinion. And attacks early D1 hardly means anything anyway.. Dandel Why is rayn dumb and not scum? What does "Rainbow dunno" mean? That you haven't read him or that you are unsure of his alignment? I don't get what you mean with Firm really, You seem to be very uncertain of these town reads yet you say that both stutters and Z-Boson are scum via elimination. This doesn't make sense. Either you are really sure of Rayn, Rainbow and Firm being town or procoess of elimination is quite useless. | ||
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On July 27 2013 00:02 ShiaoPi wrote: So you'd rather kill your town read than the person you think is useless?@Lazer: I did not want to kill Artanis since I wanted to keep him around for another cycle and see if he would continue to be useless. Therefore I sat on my vote and wanted to off rayn(still want to), my scumread. In regards to my read on FT the thing that artanis attacked him is more or less the cherry on top. During my interaction with him earlier I was already moving him out of the scummy zone. Also he is a town-leaning null read not a townread | ||
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35 Koshi 07-26-2013 05:11 AM ET (US) yay for us! 34 Lazermonkey 07-25-2013 06:25 PM ET (US) We really should kill Artanis I think... 33 Lazermonkey 07-25-2013 04:39 PM ET (US) Not bad, scum... 32 Lazermonkey 07-25-2013 04:31 PM ET (US) Artanis... sooo bad. 31 Lazermonkey 07-25-2013 03:53 PM ET (US) Sorry I am a bit late : (. Actually nvm I think you are town after reading throuhg that section once again. very unlikely that scum would do something like that and I actually like your thoughts about artanis. 30 Koshi 07-25-2013 03:18 PM ET (US) Got any questions? 29 Lazermonkey 07-25-2013 02:42 PM ET (US) You are playing so fucking wierd I don't really know what to make of you. I'm ready for a chat in about 30 minutes I think... 28 Koshi 07-25-2013 02:08 PM ET (US) Or maybe I didn't. Seems like I wrote the message in the thread first. 2 mins earlier. Oh well. 27 Koshi 07-25-2013 02:05 PM ET (US) lol. It pays off to be a drama queen. Just for the record. I wrote down the m25 before going crazy in chat :D, you can check that. I had a feeling people would be mad if I posted that. 26 Lazermonkey 07-25-2013 01:25 PM ET (US) Hmm, why is both artanis and sylencia so reluctant to kill each other? Correct play, no matter what alignment, would probably be to kill each other. It will save us a misslynch pretty much : DEdited 07-25-2013 01:26 PM 25 Koshi 07-25-2013 12:06 PM ET (US) I want to vote artanis today. From my first read I found FT to look town, I still believe that.Edited 07-25-2013 12:06 PM 24 Koshi 07-24-2013 04:39 PM ET (US) I agree that Stutters is not scumhunting. But he is not doing anything scummy except for that. 23 Lazermonkey 07-24-2013 04:01 PM ET (US) Also, you don't even comment on stutters play. Sure, maybe he played bad that one game. Maybe he is really bad as town. Maybe not. But what do YOU think about him? 22 Lazermonkey 07-24-2013 03:45 PM ET (US) I'm not talking about being "not agressive", I'm talking about not scum hunting. 21 Koshi 07-24-2013 03:39 PM ET (US) I played with Stutters in Nuclear. He isn't aggressive at all, and an easy scapegoat. He was bad for town that game. 20 Koshi 07-24-2013 03:37 PM ET (US) I added some color in the thread. You can read it there. 19 Lazermonkey 07-24-2013 03:33 PM ET (US) I'm getting more and more wary of stutters. he seems generally uninterested in finding scum it seems but is trying to appear contributing by posting dumbass policy shit. what's your take on him. 18 Lazermonkey 07-24-2013 03:31 PM ET (US) Where? 17 Koshi 07-24-2013 03:28 PM ET (US) I think I gave more reasons. 16 Lazermonkey 07-24-2013 03:26 PM ET (US) So you think he is scum because he says firmtofu and sylencia is scum? By that logic I am scum as well. But you say I'm null. I'm confused... 15 Koshi 07-24-2013 03:24 PM ET (US) I would kill Rayn. I already gave the reasons. I don't have clear reads yet, always takes me a while to get in the game. 14 Lazermonkey 07-24-2013 03:19 PM ET (US) Prehaps so but there was a long long time before dead line. and IIRC there were people who disagreed with the suspicions on FT so why did you feel the need to defend him so early? Why not let him do that himself? What do you think about FT then? still null? Do you really not think his actions are alignment indicative at all? Who would you like to kill the most at the moment? And explain WHY you want to that person! 13 Koshi 07-24-2013 03:14 PM ET (US) I had 2 problems with this game after reading it. 1) Tofu was getting too easily wagoned. I pointed out 2 people I felt did that. 2) I don't like Rayn saying he is now suspicious of FirmTofu or Sylencia. His previous voting for ShiaoPi and harddefending the Kenpachi thing is something I don't approve but dont know if it is scummy. 12 Lazermonkey 07-24-2013 03:05 PM ET (US) Where are you??? 11 Lazermonkey 07-24-2013 02:36 PM ET (US) So, I'm here right now : ). But why did you say that shit about my post then? Rayn looks kinda bad because of kenpachi thing and how he failed hard to argue under pressure. But I recently played a game with Rayn where he had 15 page filter after 72 hours of the game. That kind of activity you just don't have as scum. I'll let him post some more tomorrow and see where it leads us. Also, you opinion!Edited 07-24-2013 02:37 PM 10 Koshi 07-24-2013 02:21 PM ET (US) We have different views. I don't know if you are scum/tow. Null to me. I am looking at rayn. Your opinion on him? 9 Lazermonkey 07-24-2013 02:16 PM ET (US) Oki, I'm semi here for some time, in a few minutes I'll be more active! What is your stance on me? 8 Koshi 07-24-2013 02:06 PM ET (US) You got questions? I am on/off 7 Koshi 07-24-2013 01:24 PM ET (US) I always seem to look scummy on day 1, a bit like FimrTofu. I don't see any reasons except that silly kenpachi crap why FT is scum this game. I do see a lot of people jumping on the FT wagon for only that reason. Which I find strange. Which I pointed out. 6 Lazermonkey 07-24-2013 12:17 PM ET (US) Lol. Okey, I'm ready for a chat in a bit, you? Like in 2 hours maybe? I needed to get discusion going somewhere. Policy talk weren't productive at all. Now we at least got something to talk about. And I do think what FT did is scummy. Not OMGUSCUM-scummy but still scummy. I'm happy with my vote on him for the time being. Now, I was actually just about to post a bit on why I think you look wierd i the thread but I'll save it for some time, will go and eat some dinner soon. Anyway, you are being quite unclear with your motives this far I feel. You are really just fluffing it up hard core. Sure scum could've started the kenpachi discussion but is it likely? Sure Artanis could both be scum and town. But where are your conclusions? Do you mean that Artanis is scum? Do you mean that scum did start the kenpachi discussion? And I don't get the part on me. Do you think I'm scummy? why? Why so defensive of Sylencia and FT? Why not pursue your own scum reads instead? 5 Koshi 07-24-2013 10:01 AM ET (US) So why are you targeting FT so harshly? 4 Koshi 07-24-2013 09:11 AM ET (US) Oh you are from Sweden. That's perfect. 3 Koshi 07-24-2013 09:05 AM ET (US) Hi. 2 Lazermonkey 07-24-2013 03:47 AM ET (US) Howdy! 1 CorazonPerson was signed in when posted 07-23-2013 09:45 AM ET (US) Mason Pair #5. You are allowed to say as little or as much as you want, and you are allowed to change your name on QT to remain anonymous. As long as it is allowed in the thread, it is allowed here. QT messages may be copied and pasted onto the thread. Have fun! | ||
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On July 27 2013 05:15 FirmTofu wrote: Lol, why feel guilty? That is the play of the century! Easily nominating for "best play" at mafia awards 2013! : DGG Z-Boson and rayn. I'm feeling a little guilty about making that play BUT this is good to put on my list of, "Why it is sometimes good to lie as town". Saved for posterity. | ||
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On July 27 2013 05:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Lol.I have no idea wha's going on. Good shot Sylencia! I promise to be more help tomorrow. I have had shit days at work (~18-20hours/day). Sylencia & ShiaoPi are town, i have no idea about anyone else. | ||
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On July 27 2013 05:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: What do you say about Z-Boson claiming scum and saying that you are his scum buddy?Why the fuck would i concede when i am town? | ||
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On July 27 2013 05:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: If he really is scum and you aren't, this is the craziest fucking play I've ever seen... Did you read the whole thread?Z-Boson is scum. Someone shoot him. Stutters is the other one then most likely. | ||
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