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A few things I don't like.
1) ShiaoPi makes a hell of a case against Rayn but still thinks I am somehow more scummy than him.
2) LazerMonkey seems to think SP's VT claim could be a lie and is therefore null. Why does he pursue me instead of SP?
3) Rayn thinks I'm scummy for the same reasons that everyone else thought he was scummy. What? If you aren't scum and people are accusing you and me of the same scumtell, then you have to believe that the scumtell is not alignment indicative with regards to me.
4) Artanis said he could support a lynch on me or rayn, but never followed through with a vote on either of us. Sounds like scum trying to decide which town wagon to hop on.
5) Dandel Ion is being spammy, unproductive, and annoying.
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On July 25 2013 06:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Rainbows:
When i asked for your scumreads why did you feel the need to say "i don't think i want to lynch Stutters"?
Lazer:
I already asked this, but. How is Stutters ignoring any form of scumhunting but Sylencia is not? That wasnt in response to you. It was just a comment.
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You don't make any sense what so ever dude. Please reread what I said a couple of times and think a little.
Yes, why couldn't he be lying? Give me one reason. Why cannot prove him false anyway. His claim means jack shit. And why are you ignoring the fact that this is a fucking closed setup? There could be 9 VT claiming and for all we know it could actually be correct because we don't know what setup this is.
Also, lynch all liars is a terrible policy. lying about being VT in this setup isn't alignment indicative at all. It doesn't hurt town or help scum. Its 100% null.
I don't think you are the best lynch atm, read the thread better please.
And lastly, HOW DID THIS MAKE ME SCUMMY?
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On July 25 2013 07:28 Lazermonkey wrote:
You don't make any sense what so ever dude. Please reread what I said a couple of times and think a little.
Yes, why couldn't he be lying? Give me one reason. Why cannot prove him false anyway. His claim means jack shit. And why are you ignoring the fact that this is a fucking closed setup? There could be 9 VT claiming and for all we know it could actually be correct because we don't know what setup this is.
Also, lynch all liars is a terrible policy. lying about being VT in this setup isn't alignment indicative at all. It doesn't hurt town or help scum. Its 100% null.
I don't think you are the best lynch atm, read the thread better please.
And lastly, HOW DID THIS MAKE ME SCUMMY?
I know you don't think I'm the best lynch anymore, but at one point, you did.
Of course he can be lying. It is a possibility. My point is, why did you feel the need to specifically point it out and then proceed to buddy him for a lynch of me?
If SP's claim is truly null to you, why did you act as if he was town and I was scum? Your behavior doesn't make any sense.
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@Lazer
1) it doesn't affect Rayn at all IMO. If he's scum he has to assume he'll live since otherwise he has to explain why he checked out when he wasn't dead. If he's town it makes no difference.
2) It did not really create content. He didn't even tell us it happened. That clearly isn't with the intent of discussion if he never discussed it.
There is a difference between sub-optimal play and play that has no value to town.
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On July 25 2013 07:32 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 07:28 Lazermonkey wrote:
You don't make any sense what so ever dude. Please reread what I said a couple of times and think a little.
Yes, why couldn't he be lying? Give me one reason. Why cannot prove him false anyway. His claim means jack shit. And why are you ignoring the fact that this is a fucking closed setup? There could be 9 VT claiming and for all we know it could actually be correct because we don't know what setup this is.
Also, lynch all liars is a terrible policy. lying about being VT in this setup isn't alignment indicative at all. It doesn't hurt town or help scum. Its 100% null.
I don't think you are the best lynch atm, read the thread better please.
And lastly, HOW DID THIS MAKE ME SCUMMY? I know you don't think I'm the best lynch anymore, but at one point, you did. Of course he can be lying. It is a possibility. My point is, why did you feel the need to specifically point it out and then proceed to buddy him for a lynch of me? If SP's claim is truly null to you, why did you act as if he was town and I was scum? Your behavior doesn't make any sense. That wasn't really your point at all. And you got it all backwards. I was the first to suspect you but not because of the kenpachi thing but because of your wierd take on ShiaoPi's claim. ShiaoPi was the one to agree with my suspicions on you. At this point I didn't think Shiao was town, just null. It was first later on when during his interactions with Rayn when I thought he was town, I still do. I don't see how this doesn't make any sense.
Also, why am I scummy?
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On July 25 2013 07:36 Stutters695 wrote:
@Lazer
1) it doesn't affect Rayn at all IMO. If he's scum he has to assume he'll live since otherwise he has to explain why he checked out when he wasn't dead. If he's town it makes no difference.
2) It did not really create content. He didn't even tell us it happened. That clearly isn't with the intent of discussion if he never discussed it.
There is a difference between sub-optimal play and play that has no value to town.
1. Yes, but this is once again assuming perfect play. With perfect scum play it would be impossible to ever lynch scum. The reason we can do so IS because scum makes mistakes. And being put in a trap, especially when you can be under stress could definitly cause mistakes.
2. There is a diference between "it didn't create content" and "it was susposed to create content".
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On July 25 2013 07:41 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 07:32 FirmTofu wrote:On July 25 2013 07:28 Lazermonkey wrote:
You don't make any sense what so ever dude. Please reread what I said a couple of times and think a little.
Yes, why couldn't he be lying? Give me one reason. Why cannot prove him false anyway. His claim means jack shit. And why are you ignoring the fact that this is a fucking closed setup? There could be 9 VT claiming and for all we know it could actually be correct because we don't know what setup this is.
Also, lynch all liars is a terrible policy. lying about being VT in this setup isn't alignment indicative at all. It doesn't hurt town or help scum. Its 100% null.
I don't think you are the best lynch atm, read the thread better please.
And lastly, HOW DID THIS MAKE ME SCUMMY? I know you don't think I'm the best lynch anymore, but at one point, you did. Of course he can be lying. It is a possibility. My point is, why did you feel the need to specifically point it out and then proceed to buddy him for a lynch of me? If SP's claim is truly null to you, why did you act as if he was town and I was scum? Your behavior doesn't make any sense. That wasn't really your point at all. And you got it all backwards. I was the first to suspect you but not because of the kenpachi thing but because of your wierd take on ShiaoPi's claim. ShiaoPi was the one to agree with my suspicions on you. At this point I didn't think Shiao was town, just null. It was first later on when during his interactions with Rayn when I thought he was town, I still do. I don't see how this doesn't make any sense. Also, why am I scummy?
I don't care to argue with you about this quite just yet. I want to hear from rayn/Artanis/SP first and I will decide whether I I need to take a second look at you.
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He made no effort to create content. If he had attempted to create content (I.e. hey guys I shot my mason buddy since he wasn't here or something along those lines) I'd make note of that. But he didn't, he attempted to shoot someone without consulting anyone or even knowing who it was. That isn't a discussion generator.
To "trap" a scum you need to provide a scenario that changes someone's answers from null to a more binary scum/not scum. He has failed to show in any way how his actions have resulted in a read.
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On July 25 2013 07:23 FirmTofu wrote:
4) Artanis said he could support a lynch on me or rayn, but never followed through with a vote on either of us. Sounds like scum trying to decide which town wagon to hop on.
If pressuring without voting is scummy then you're looking pretty scummy according to your own logic. You should probably get that logic checked out.
I want to hear Malongo talk about things that aren't about speed dating pairings.
Dandel is probably town but my feelings are hurt that he called me scum. I'm sad now.
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Another thing i don't like:
On July 25 2013 07:23 FirmTofu wrote:
3) Rayn thinks I'm scummy for the same reasons that everyone else thought he was scummy. What? If you aren't scum and people are accusing you and me of the same scumtell, then you have to believe that the scumtell is not alignment indicative with regards to me.
This has been on the table many times and this is completely false. Why are you not reading the thread? I don't know what other people are accusing you of but i am not accusing you of thinking ShiaoPi's claim was whatever. I am accusing you of the way you did approach the whole situation (calling the claim fishy only after you saw someone you thought thought ShiaoPi was scummy).
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Well I'm back home and this thread is still dead. Am I the only one who thinks Malongo is scum?
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I am going to bed. If you need anything in the next 12 hours, pm both myself and Ange.
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Hey guys we should lynch Artanis today. He looks blendy as fuck today and seems to be going along with thread sentiment as it appears. He hasn't done much of use.
On July 24 2013 21:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Hey guys. I'm good with a Firm or Rayn lynch. Kenpachi gambit always accurate.
I wish I could date Dandel. he's such a cutie.
He says he's good with both lynches due to Kenpachi. Fine, but where's the support? He has not pressured either of his so-called scumreads this game. Most of his 1-page filter is trolling with Dandel. Aside from that, he gives a few questions...
On July 25 2013 01:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 00:53 Stutters695 wrote:
I fell for the Kenpachi rule like 5 times. How do you fall for that five times? What?
On July 25 2013 07:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Tofu, do you think claiming VT makes Shiao more likely to be scum?
The first is meh. The second is a valid question but I haven't seen any follow up on it. It's like he doesn't even care.
This is Artanis' most significant post of this game:
On July 25 2013 00:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 21:31 Dandel Ion wrote:On July 24 2013 21:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 24 2013 21:29 Dandel Ion wrote:On July 24 2013 21:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 24 2013 21:26 Lazermonkey wrote:
Artanis, do you even have anything relevant to say? Your only not-troll comment was towards Malongo basically telling him his arguments was bad, yet not taking a stance on what you thought about him or anyone else in the game. I said Rayn and Firm are scum because kenpachi gambit. That's two scum already. You guys can find the rest. Your stuff is weak. y two not one if two are two one is more likely to be half of it. ? Because if one were two then four would be divided by carrot and that would implode the world. but there can only be one carrot per monkey. Why would there be two carrots, I only see one, and only one will get it. If two try, they have to be different monkeys, no? There is no limt on the amount of carrots per monkey. This is the fatal flaw in your calculations. The monkey has learned to plant the carrot to grow more. An infinite amount of carrots will emerge and implode the very ground we're standing on. It is known. Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 23:00 Koshi wrote:
Second thought.
What if the Kenpachi rule is started by scum? Or scum is finding FT a fitting target? Doubtful, it's creating actual scumhunting discussion where setup discussion was taking place. Shiao is probably town. Show nested quote +I am also not a big fan of using this tactic to destroy all conversation day 1, or redirect it on 1 person. That's not what's happening, it's helped trigger scumhunting. Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 23:46 Sylencia wrote:On July 24 2013 21:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 24 2013 21:26 Lazermonkey wrote:
Artanis, do you even have anything relevant to say? Your only not-troll comment was towards Malongo basically telling him his arguments was bad, yet not taking a stance on what you thought about him or anyone else in the game. I said Rayn and Firm are scum because kenpachi gambit. That's two scum already. You guys can find the rest. Your stuff is weak. Having 2 people fall for the same gambit in such a short period seems quite unlikely. I'm pretty sure rayn has been in a game with an attempted Kenpachi gambit anyways so he would know better than to fall for it along with his teammate. I don't think so, otherwise he wouldn't have taken the bait. I do think it's unlikely that two scum would jump on it immediately though, so you're right. There's a good chance one of them is scum though. Firm seemed to be content with jumping on the bandwagon after Rayn pointed it out at first, so Firm would be my first suspect, though I don't like how quickly a wagon formed on him. It feels itchy.
Artanis defends Shaio as town (fine). The bolded is absolute waffle-mode engaged. "I don't think they're both scum, probably at least one. Firm is my top suspect, but not really because a wagon formed very quickly"
I have no idea who Artanis suspects the most here. He says Rayn and Firm are scum because Kenpachi... But only one is probably scum. Firm is most suspicious but he doesn't like how quickly the wagon formed (supposedly town?).
So far the only thing Artanis has done this game is call Shaio probably town and finger point at Rayn and Firm cus Kenpachi. This dude needs to step it up yo.
Vote: Artanis
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EBWOP: ##Vote: Artanis[Xp]
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On July 25 2013 07:14 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 06:45 Lazermonkey wrote:
Ow, and Koshi's play is really random. Could very well be scum also. All his reads are bonkers (though I don't put too much weigh in that) but he doesn't actually spend any time at all pushing them. Both his scum reads, rayn and Malango, he just dropped a quick post saying why he thought they were scum and then nothing. But it's not like he is afk or anything. We still had a chat in our QT for some time.
Koshi, if Rayn and Malango really are scum, why don't you try to convince us that they are? Shooting an unknown is pretty strange for town to do. Canceling your shot because you found out you shot Rayn is strange as well. Who did Malongo think he was shooting? Would Malongo have not canceled if it was somebody else? Malongo should explain his action when he comes back. For a brief second I thought Rayn and Malongo were both scum. I looked into rayn and made a "case". It was terrible and that's that.
I just read the day post and sent the hit, mostly for the lulz. Just like that. I canceled the hit because I have a huge crush on Finns and I will need a girlfriend when I get there next year, so I need this girl ryan to like me. Anyone else would have been hit, thou I may need a girlfriend in Austria too.
On July 25 2013 09:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 07:23 FirmTofu wrote:
4) Artanis said he could support a lynch on me or rayn, but never followed through with a vote on either of us. Sounds like scum trying to decide which town wagon to hop on. If pressuring without voting is scummy then you're looking pretty scummy according to your own logic. You should probably get that logic checked out. I want to hear Malongo talk about things that aren't about speed dating pairings. Dandel is probably town but my feelings are hurt that he called me scum. I'm sad now.
What do you want me to tell you? I am going to vote for the one that asked my attention with not too many reasons to be honest. Kenpachi gambit is Meh, it could just be a timeburner for ever and i do think the claim was stupid and bad for the town in first place.
##Koshi
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VOTE COUNT:
FirmTofu (2): Lazermonkey, ShiaoPi, Dandel Ion
Malongo (1): Stutters695
ShiaoPi (0): raynpelikoneet
Stutters695 (1): Lazermonkey
Artanis[Xp] (1): Rainbows
Koshi (1): Malongo
Deadline is in ~17,5 hours. Currently FirmTofu is set to be lynched!
Reminder: Voting is mandatory! Please use the correct voting format ##Vote cDgCorazon.
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On July 25 2013 16:28 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 07:14 Koshi wrote:On July 25 2013 06:45 Lazermonkey wrote:
Ow, and Koshi's play is really random. Could very well be scum also. All his reads are bonkers (though I don't put too much weigh in that) but he doesn't actually spend any time at all pushing them. Both his scum reads, rayn and Malango, he just dropped a quick post saying why he thought they were scum and then nothing. But it's not like he is afk or anything. We still had a chat in our QT for some time.
Koshi, if Rayn and Malango really are scum, why don't you try to convince us that they are? Shooting an unknown is pretty strange for town to do. Canceling your shot because you found out you shot Rayn is strange as well. Who did Malongo think he was shooting? Would Malongo have not canceled if it was somebody else? Malongo should explain his action when he comes back. For a brief second I thought Rayn and Malongo were both scum. I looked into rayn and made a "case". It was terrible and that's that. I just read the day post and sent the hit, mostly for the lulz. Just like that. I canceled the hit because I have a huge crush on Finns and I will need a girlfriend when I get there next year, so I need this girl ryan to like me. Anyone else would have been hit, thou I may need a girlfriend in Austria too. Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 09:02 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 25 2013 07:23 FirmTofu wrote:
4) Artanis said he could support a lynch on me or rayn, but never followed through with a vote on either of us. Sounds like scum trying to decide which town wagon to hop on. If pressuring without voting is scummy then you're looking pretty scummy according to your own logic. You should probably get that logic checked out. I want to hear Malongo talk about things that aren't about speed dating pairings. Dandel is probably town but my feelings are hurt that he called me scum. I'm sad now. What do you want me to tell you? I am going to vote for the one that asked my attention with not too many reasons to be honest. Kenpachi gambit is Meh, it could just be a timeburner for ever and i do think the claim was stupid and bad for the town in first place. ##Koshi
Yo I can't be girl, but if you're in Austria, I can be Dandel Ion, supplier of beers.
word
I don't really Koishi, but I Artanis.
##Unvote
##Vote Artanis[Vista]
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Wow, u murricans are sooo lazy Lol. EU representing!
Some quick thoughts
Guys I'm having town reads on:
Rayn
ShaioPi
Z-Boson
Have all put in a resonable amount of effort and their logic seems okay in most cases, I wouldn't want to lynch any of these guys today
Guys that are neutral:
Dandel
Artanis (though mostly because i haven't read him)
Rainbows (while his post about policy was bad, I think his play in general has been decent)
Guys that makes my brain hurt:
Malongo
koshi
Both these guys have the wierdest logic, haven't pushed their scum reads etc. I just don't know what to think really... In one hand I do think their play is bad and maybe even scummy. At the same time, I get a feeling that they are both quite inexperienced (have someone played with these before? am I correct about this?) and they are both getting alot of attention to themself, which I generally don't see scum do.
Guys I'm okay with lynching:
Stutters
Sylencia
FirmTofu
In order of preferance, read my filter for why I want to kill them...
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As per usual of my walls, I add on as I read etc
On July 25 2013 03:10 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 02:59 Rainbows wrote:On July 25 2013 02:56 Lazermonkey wrote:
Well, that is a retarded policy Why? Regarding double lynch. If you are about to get mason-killed, then the correct play, no matter what alignment you, is to kill your mason partner before he kills you. If he flips scum, then whop-whop you are suddenly town once again. No townie would NOT do this making the move alignment unindicative (because scum would obviously do the same thing). Regarding policy lynching the mason who kills his partner and he flips town. Well, this is just bad. The same way you wouldn't lynch a vigi who kills town. Even though he might not kill scum he saves us one misslynch if he kills a top suspect. If he kills someone without a very good reason and that person flips town, then we should obviously look into that player. But policy lyncing someone who kills town is a big no-no!
Man, how are people agreeing with this post, when it looks like a giant setup for a town misfire into a mislynch on a different person.
Normal Scenario:
Scum targets partner for lynch, a wagon starts.
Getting closer to the deadline, the partner decides to shoot since his mason partner turned on him, but before that happens scum shoots the partner.
Miskill happens.
After that, what happens? Town is in disarray as we would then only have a couple of hours to regain any sort of co-ordination, people aren't around for deadlines, and scum are in a powerful position to take control and choose the next lynch target. This results in 2 mislynches and destroys the town.
Following from that, his 2nd point can be interpreted as a way to protect a scummate after the shot by saying "Don't shoot the shooter" before it happens, so that there's limited ways for us to really justify shooting. I don't buy this.
On July 25 2013 03:44 Z-BosoN wrote:I want to talk about sylencia for a little bit. Here he posts asking about anonymity, demonstrating an interest in discussing such aspects of the QT mechanic. Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 13:17 Sylencia wrote:
Firm, thoughts about anonymity in the qts? However, later on, when there was some discussion about whether or not it is worth it to mass claim the mason partners, he blatantly tells us his own: Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 23:46 Sylencia wrote:On July 24 2013 21:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 24 2013 21:26 Lazermonkey wrote:
Artanis, do you even have anything relevant to say? Your only not-troll comment was towards Malongo basically telling him his arguments was bad, yet not taking a stance on what you thought about him or anyone else in the game. I said Rayn and Firm are scum because kenpachi gambit. That's two scum already. You guys can find the rest. Your stuff is weak. Having 2 people fall for the same gambit in such a short period seems quite unlikely. I'm pretty sure rayn has been in a game with an attempted Kenpachi gambit anyways so he would know better than to fall for it along with his teammate. On July 24 2013 22:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 24 2013 22:03 ShiaoPi wrote:
@rayn:
We can agree to disagree on the interpretation of your posts. Still you and FirmTofu were the only persons to really react in a suspicious manner to the claim so that is the point where I am standing.
Who is your lynch-choice now that you have unvoted? FirmTofu or Sylencia. Explain thx. Also, Artanis is my current partner (don't think he mentioned it) This is very inconsistent, and in my experience is much more likely to come from scum. Add to that the zero amount of scumhunting he has done. All his talk is related to game mechanics, which is very easy and comfortable for scum to talk in. Thoughts?
I already explained why I asked that question, did you not read?
That said,
Rayn: I asked you why you found me suspicious, and you've tiptoed around the question or explaining anything about why you find me to be scum.
On July 25 2013 05:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Because to me Stutters looks way better than Sylencia.
On July 24 2013 22:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 22:03 ShiaoPi wrote:
@rayn:
We can agree to disagree on the interpretation of your posts. Still you and FirmTofu were the only persons to really react in a suspicious manner to the claim so that is the point where I am standing.
Who is your lynch-choice now that you have unvoted? FirmTofu or Sylencia.
Trying to get others to start a wagon for you?
On July 25 2013 05:30 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 05:20 Lazermonkey wrote:
Stutters is less of a lynchbait afaik. He also avoided talking with me about scum hunting several times dispite me calling him out. Not only did he not talk about scum hunting, he kept going about policy talk. I'm always lynch bait lol.
So am I, the threat of being killed off everyday really gives me an adrenaline rush.
Dandel is playing like Blazing did in the first I Swear, so I'm not sure if he's trying to replicate his 'success' with it but it's still aggravating -_-
On July 25 2013 06:40 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 05:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So your only reason for Stuytters being more scummy than Sylencia is because Sylencia is more of a lynchbait than Stutters? That and that the fact that he is was actively ignoring any form of scum hunting.
D1 Scum hunting is a skill I've yet to acquire, still too noob, still think your post above is suspicious though.
On July 25 2013 06:47 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 03:53 Lazermonkey wrote:On July 25 2013 02:17 Stutters695 wrote:
Anyway I'd totally be game to lynch Mal until he explains better why he thought it was a good idea to try and get someone killed so early in the day. If this was an attempt at a play from a town to force discussion the obvious choice is to not actually PM the host and just say you did so he'd contribute before he died.
Something doesn't add up.
##vote: Malango And Malago's play is scum indicative because...? I agree his early play was WIERD. But why the actual fuck would he do stuff like that if he would be scum? It would be even wierder. And bolded part: how do you know this was not the case? This is the only time you've ever scum hunted despite having several posts where you discuss policy/setup/defending random dudes/fluff. I'm not impressed at all. I'm assuming this is what you say I'm ignoring. The bolded part: If true then he lied about sending a PM to kill someone then sending another to cancel it. This isn't likely at all from either perspective as it creates a lie that is easily verifiable and would cause his lynch/mislynch over nothing. Thus I assume he actually did send the PM. Why would he send that PM as either alignment? Town: He's taking a shot on the 3/11 probability of hitting scum. Unlikely without some other plan. It certainly wasn't to pressure a lurker since the game had been only going for a couple hours. Scum: He thinks it's a good idea to take the free KP before town uses it. Sends in the PM and tells his scum buddies. They flip their shit since their KP probably drops to 1 at 2 scum and we'd lynch him for a clearly retarded shot and they would actually lose KP so he reneged on his shot. I don't see any town explanation that comes even close to the scum one so I think he's scum unless he has a damn good reason for it
1) Killing someone isn't pressure.
2) 2KP @ 12 players (assuming 9-3 + free vig shot) is pretty strongly favoured to scum, since they can sit at 5-3 after 1 day..
My thoughts if he was scum was that he said he'd play it off as a bad townie/trigger happy play but then his scum buddies convinced him it was suicide to go down that route. But that's still all speculation (checking his filter, that reasoning pretty much would've fit this route)
Anyways, for now ##Vote: Lazer
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EPT
