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On July 02 2013 20:02 Oatsmaster wrote: also flavor is tailored to each role
Don't see how flavour is relevant; I assume before whatever shenannies happened every single role had attached fluff (including fakeclaims / one not present).
Anyways I'll muse this claim thing over when I'm not at work and so staring into the distance for 5-10 minutes won't get me noticed ^_^
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Well, I think at the start of day 2 would make more sense than during the night, if we decide it's a good plan. Hopefully I'll survive the night because I don't really have a good chunk of time before deadline to make sense of things.
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On July 02 2013 20:37 Oatsmaster wrote: well I meant day 2, sunrise. Doesnt really matter, just after the night actions.
What are the downsides other than it outs our blues?
That's pretty much the downside.
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Hi fuba. I want you to talk to me about your scumreads. Firstly rayn.
On July 01 2013 07:00 mkfuba07 wrote:
Vivax's first post after returning actually had a really good point in it. Not that what marv did was scummy, but that the miller claim definitely can't be taken as a town tell now. Rayn followed that post with this: "No it's not. Fakeclaiming miller 5min into the game is dumb and unnecessary as scum and if someone was dumb enough to fakeclaim after marv we had a 50% chance to right out catch them by having them post the role PM first." I'm starting to see what oats was getting at, now. Rayn seems incapable of believing marv is scum, even though it's been shown that the claim is unreliable. Like, in that quote, while admitting the possibility of a fakeclaim, he refuses to believe it could be marv lying.
-snip-
Vivax: I like what he's said about rayn, wasn't impressed by marv's supposed scumminess for not posting his full role PM. That assumes that town marv would have naturally posted his role PM when claiming miller, something that I don't think is a natural inclination. The fact that he went into Carnival Cruise and found evidence of rayn's previous reactions to miller claims gives him some townie points. Overall, slight town, though he's apparently thinking about marv a lot, which I find strange given that marv hasn't really been here at all.
rayn: After Vivax's marv post, I expected rayn to be less insistent on him being confirmed town. It would have been *much* easier for scum to fakeclaim miller in this situation than I thought, and I don't see how this isn't obvious from a town perspective. Add to that Vivax's case, where he points out that rayn accepts the existence of a miller at face value, and I'm pretty convinced. He's far too eager to accept the claim as truth, when it should now have little effect on the mind of a townie. My only reluctance to vote for him is his activity level, which I tend to associate with town.
##Vote: raynpelikoneet
On July 02 2013 01:39 mkfuba07 wrote:
And it would have been easier this game because every single person in the thread posted before we realized that millers should claim their names as well. Marv could *easily* have figured that out beforehand and gone with it since he knew he had a pre-game excuse for not posting for a while. The fact that you accepted the claim as just about 100% guaranteed so quickly, and then failed to realize the rest of this is what makes you so scummy.
Am I to understand that the basis for your scumread on rayn is the idea that not posting my role PM makes my roleclaim more unreliable? I'm not entirely sure I understand this, given two millers in a game this size seems quite unlikely to start with. Do you think a mafia-marv in this scenario takes the risk of claiming miller straight off the bat, crossing my fingers as to regards role names, or am I hoping for a 1-for-1? Am I hoping to argue there are two millers? I'm asking all this because it seems like it's basically the only basis for your scumread on rayn. Is there anything else I'm missing?
On July 02 2013 05:52 mkfuba07 wrote:
rofl, it's because I think stutters is scum. My problem with the lynch is that I want to lynch rayn, which apparently isn't going to happen today, or stutters, who I'm surprised so many people have a town read on. It's not a "stupid fucking argument". Of course, if you didn't play in Roulette then you might not understand what I'm talking about, but there are contradictions between how he played then and how he's playing now that point towards him being scum. Unfortunately, as those contradictions center around his responses to me, others apparently don't find that compelling.
I'm not really sure what your scumread on Stutters consists of; you twice mention he's playing like some townie from another game (Vayne in roulette...). It seems you think your case rests on your disagreements with the points he's made, but I'm not finding any significant narrative within those posts as to why he's actually mafia. Can you explain the contradictions + differences and why they make Stutters mafia?
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I'll talk about what I want at whatever length I choose whenever I'm ready to do so.
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s0lstice: you ended up plopping your vote on fuba at the end of the day, when you hadn't mentioned him at all previously in your filter. Explain how and why your vote ended up on fuba please.
On July 02 2013 06:05 s0Lstice wrote: I could do fuba though if its not stutters, that's not a bad lynch.
##vote mkfuba
On July 02 2013 06:29 s0Lstice wrote: wife and kids are home.
all things considered, I think fuba is a pretty decent lynch. I was nullish, but his more recent stuff looks bad news bears.
let's stay put here.
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On July 02 2013 21:48 mkfuba07 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 08:00 Stutters695 wrote: Well I'm off work.
Catching up since I missed multiple pages. Oh, and before I forget, is this another promise of action that you've neglected?
Given I can think of at least one example you've played with Stutters before (LIX) and I know in that game it was brought up that Stutters does this as town all the time, why are you bringing this up here?
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I'm not entirely sure about gumshoe. Quite a bit of his posting seems to show a willingness to think about the game in depth. Dunno how much I agree with Jarjar's point on the voting-to-save-self stuff. Outside of the last hour of the day, it's not a particularly productive thing to say that you'll vote for anyone that's not yourself. The roleclaim stuff is a bit more interesting though. Didn't think so much of it just reading through his filter but JarJar makes a valid point there; it is weird to give reasons against it but then say he'd go for it.
Further I don't like how his vote was parked uselessly on JarJar at the end of the day (despite saying he was going to remove it as well).
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On July 02 2013 22:42 JarJarDrinks wrote: He unvoted
So he did, I was going by iGrok's final votecount.
Yo hosts, what are you doing about the dude who didn't place a vote?
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On July 02 2013 22:41 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +Further I don't like how his vote was parked uselessly on JarJar at the end of the day (despite saying he was going to remove it as well).
this is town tell imo. Town dont really care where their votes end up and why not just vote for vayne anyway.
Not true of any competent townie I know of.
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On July 02 2013 22:53 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 22:48 marvellosity wrote:On July 02 2013 22:41 Oatsmaster wrote:Further I don't like how his vote was parked uselessly on JarJar at the end of the day (despite saying he was going to remove it as well).
this is town tell imo. Town dont really care where their votes end up and why not just vote for vayne anyway. Not true of any competent townie I know of. so you think gumshoe is competent? And competent scum also dont do shit like that. So yeah..
Sorry, you're never gonna get it past me that scum care about their votes more than townies.
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On July 02 2013 22:56 JarJarDrinks wrote: Regardless he unvoted so the point is moo.
What is wierd though is how he disappeared during the crucial part of the day. Especially considering he used that exact same reasoning to build his case against Stutters and myself. See if I was like him, I'd start throwing out all these theorys that he couldn't refute about how the mass roleclaim idea scared him away and he purposefully stayed away from the thread.
In fairness he did say his activity would be spotty on Day 1, Canada day and what have you. I agree with you that it's at best extremely hypocritical with the Stutters thing.
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So fuba can you answer my question about Stutters' activity promises? Could you also show me the apparently large number of instances where Stutters was scummy are? (from your posts, I gather they came before his case(s) on you)
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I'm finding it unusually difficult to follow your train of thought on stuff :/
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Yeah, him saying you attacked Lazer is a pretty big misrepresentation of your post.
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WoS, why do you think Stutters latching on to Vivax is more likely to come from scum than town?
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On July 02 2013 23:30 JarJarDrinks wrote:In fact, I relooked @ the piggyback accusation and check this out: Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 04:34 gumshoe wrote: Jar Jar Drinks's first post is essentially just him piggy backing off Oat's accusation of Rayne (who in turn was just recycling my initial analysis and presenting it as his own but with gusto) while simultaneously attacking Lazer without providing any reason why (he also associates them here as if they are in league, when in reality they're is no real proof connecting the two other than Wifom) he backs mine and Oat's assesment of Stutters maybe just being silly town, but doesn't comment on his long absence. Here's my first post that he's referring to: Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 13:00 JarJarDrinks wrote:On June 30 2013 12:25 Oatsmaster wrote: He instantly buddied marv after his miller claim which doesnt 100% confirm marv as town.
Its was like 'Miller claim please' 'im miller' 'k lets win game together marv'
Does anyone else not see that something is wrong? Agree. I also think it's wierd that he's already twice called Lazer a townread. I'm not seeing why he'd think that based on what lazer's posted so far. I also don't see what's scummy about stutters. Here's his vote for him: On June 30 2013 07:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: Actually no, Stutters' last post makes no sense from town point of view. ##Vote: Stutters And here's the post in question: On June 30 2013 07:06 Stutters695 wrote:On June 30 2013 06:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Stutters what do you think about Lazer's post? Also what do you think about WoS' posts? I think he's lazy and didn't read the op/didn't comprehend, nbd. WoS I'm not sure. My French is really rusty so I haven't even really tried to read them but I don't like the fact he's typing in a way clearly everyone won't understand. Can't really judge it this early without just WIFOMing myself for ages. I don't quite get what he's saying here. Why doesn't that post make sense for town? Am I really piggybacking? I acknowledge oats case barely and then give 3 of my own reasons for thinking rayne was scummy. And also I wasn't attacking lazer and I certainly wasn't associating them as if they were in league. And then again he mentions actvity by saying that I didn't comment on stutters long absence. Like, I commented on stutters actual posts. What could he possibly expect me to say about the fact that he wasn't posting?
gumshoe, I'm curious about what Jarjar picked up with the bolded. You attack Jarjar for groundlessly attacking Jarjar, when Jarjar had merely said he didn't see why Lazer should be a townread. Do you understand how that looks like you were grabbing and twisting at stuff? Or do you have a different explanation?
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On July 03 2013 01:05 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 01:00 marvellosity wrote:On July 02 2013 23:30 JarJarDrinks wrote:In fact, I relooked @ the piggyback accusation and check this out: On July 01 2013 04:34 gumshoe wrote: Jar Jar Drinks's first post is essentially just him piggy backing off Oat's accusation of Rayne (who in turn was just recycling my initial analysis and presenting it as his own but with gusto) while simultaneously attacking Lazer without providing any reason why (he also associates them here as if they are in league, when in reality they're is no real proof connecting the two other than Wifom) he backs mine and Oat's assesment of Stutters maybe just being silly town, but doesn't comment on his long absence. Here's my first post that he's referring to: On June 30 2013 13:00 JarJarDrinks wrote:On June 30 2013 12:25 Oatsmaster wrote: He instantly buddied marv after his miller claim which doesnt 100% confirm marv as town.
Its was like 'Miller claim please' 'im miller' 'k lets win game together marv'
Does anyone else not see that something is wrong? Agree. I also think it's wierd that he's already twice called Lazer a townread. I'm not seeing why he'd think that based on what lazer's posted so far. I also don't see what's scummy about stutters. Here's his vote for him: On June 30 2013 07:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: Actually no, Stutters' last post makes no sense from town point of view. ##Vote: Stutters And here's the post in question: On June 30 2013 07:06 Stutters695 wrote:On June 30 2013 06:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Stutters what do you think about Lazer's post? Also what do you think about WoS' posts? I think he's lazy and didn't read the op/didn't comprehend, nbd. WoS I'm not sure. My French is really rusty so I haven't even really tried to read them but I don't like the fact he's typing in a way clearly everyone won't understand. Can't really judge it this early without just WIFOMing myself for ages. I don't quite get what he's saying here. Why doesn't that post make sense for town? Am I really piggybacking? I acknowledge oats case barely and then give 3 of my own reasons for thinking rayne was scummy. And also I wasn't attacking lazer and I certainly wasn't associating them as if they were in league. And then again he mentions actvity by saying that I didn't comment on stutters long absence. Like, I commented on stutters actual posts. What could he possibly expect me to say about the fact that he wasn't posting? gumshoe, I'm curious about what Jarjar picked up with the bolded. You attack Jarjar for groundlessly attacking Jarjar, when Jarjar had merely said he didn't see why Lazer should be a townread. Do you understand how that looks like you were grabbing and twisting at stuff? Or do you have a different explanation? I believe scum would find passive aggressive ways to throw doubt on people. him saying "nothing in his posting looks townie" is effectively him saying he looked through his filter, and found him null/scum. The tone of it sounded scum to me though because of the sort of double pronged(associating rayne and lazer) passive way it came across.
Isn't the townie explanation that he sees someone with what he views as a weird townread and doesn't tally it with his own mentality/view of the game?
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On July 03 2013 01:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Because of the way he uses it. As town you want to try and get answers and reads from as many people as possible and especially that early in the game I'd argue it's a bad idea to trust anyone completely. The fact that Stutters values Vivax's opinions so much above those of anyone else looks like scum buddying up to a player widely regarded as town (though possible Vivax is not town himself, though I admit a buddying attempt this obvious is unlikely to be 2 scum). He echoes Vivax's sentiments in many ways and to me it looks more likely to come from scum with weak reads/no good reads of his own.
Maybe, but I see townies blatantly sheeping on to people all the time (more than mafia I'd say) for good or bad. e.g. for whatever reason Vivax just blindly sheeped BlazingHand (who was scum) d1 in...er... The Game, Baker did the same to SMMccoy in Smurf, players like fuba/Clarity_nl sometimes just blatantly sheep on to me. Also this is a PM from a friend recently:
My day 1 is usually a complete crapshoot. I sheep someone who I think is town, or someone who I like (hi!), cross my damn fingers and hope it doesn't blow up in my face. D2 onwards is where I usually always pick up steam.
I understand what you're getting at, I'm just struggling to see why it's so different from how townies often go about doing similar.
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