Newbie Mini Mafia XLIII

On June 20 2013 05:42 Ange777 wrote:
I played my first Newbie Game with FirmTofu :D

On June 24 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote:
hey guys

On June 24 2013 11:01 StiMaDDict wrote:
so it begins..

On June 24 2013 11:02 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Hey everyone

On June 24 2013 11:03 Xzavier wrote:
Spicy <3 hello again.

On June 24 2013 11:04 Chromatically wrote:
Why so scummy, Spicy?

On June 24 2013 11:21 Xzavier wrote:
jesus somebody went a long way to post alot of nothing xD

On June 24 2013 11:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The fun part comes with the Tracker and the Nosy Neighbor (and by extension Parity Cop). The Tracker should secretly track the Nosy Neighbor. AGAIN, MR. OR MRS. TRACKER: DO NOT CLAIM NOW. If we have a Nosy Neighbor, they should claim IMMEDIATELY. Once the Tracker can confirm that the Nosy Neighbor is in fact moving around at night, but not visiting the person who got Mafia-killed, WE CAN ESTABLISH HIM AS TOWN. This is a big deal. The Parity Cop can then tag the confirmed Nosy Neighbor as Town and start measuring up suspects against them. If he gets a 'Different' claim, the other person is Scum. If he gets 'Same', they are town.

On June 24 2013 12:07 hzflank wrote:


But on day one, is that not all we have to go off of?

On June 24 2013 12:10 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Alright, it appears that my plan has oversights that are unacceptable risks at this juncture. Thank you to the veteran players (or just simply better players) who found them so quickly. Personally, I'm more concerned about Chromatic's point (regarding letting mafia call their shot on blues) than the risk of a mafia-tracker claiming NN, but I will not protest if we continue the scum-hunt without regard for my posted plan.

To me, everyone who is posting one-liners looks spammy to me, but I think the 'everyone is scum until they convince me otherwise' mentality isn't the worst thing in the world. Spicy and Xzavier are on my radar for the fluff and nonsense at the beginning. Chromatically and FirmTofu seem the most town as they were very quick to point out what were (in their view) flaws in a plan to move forward that may have compromised the town.

On June 24 2013 12:24 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The Case on Xzavier being spammy:

None of this is useable for me. That could just be me sucking at reads (no, really. This is a possibility), but none of this material brings anything new to the table for me or encourages serious scum-hunting discussion.

On June 24 2013 12:39 Spicydinosaur wrote:


I do this in all my games, check out Les Mafiafor a good example. Though i don't see how that is alignment indicative as no one wants to get lynched.

On June 24 2013 13:22 hzflank wrote:


At the moment I am looking at FirmTofu. His chain of attack and defense looks like:

Attack Chromatically
Attack Xzavier
Attack Hurricane
Attack Spicy
Defend Hurricane
Defend Xzavier
Attack Spicy

For some reason the defenses seem a little out of place to me, especially the defense on Xzavier. On the other hand I believe Hurricane to be town as if he were scum then he is very brave to make the first post that he did.

I am also very aware that I made an slightly extended attack on Spicy, who now seems to be FirmTofu's main target. I am wondering if he thinks Spicy is a good lynch target because he can count on my vote.(1)

He has also said twice that we should only use information from this game and not previous games. I think town should have access to as much information as possible in order to lynch scum.

Therefore to me, FirmTofu is currently the scummiest player.(2)

On June 24 2013 15:21 Aquanim wrote:
@FirmTofu: What is your read on Chromatically?

On June 24 2013 16:26 Aquanim wrote:

First, scum is unlikely to claim NN day 1 for fear of being counter-claimed. Somebody who claims NN is obviously not confirmed town, but they're considerably more likely to be town. I have personally never seen a day-one miller claim (analogous to a NN, with different investigative rolls) end up being scum, and plenty end up being town. A miller/NN who is thus likely town and can thus play a strong, town-leading role is a HIGHER PRIORITY for scum to kill than a possible bluesnipe.

Also, a day-one NN claim avoids two possibly disastrous situations later on:
1) An actual NN being seen visiting someone and being lynched for it.
2) Mafia fake-claiming NN after being seen visiting somebody.
Auto-lynching any NN claim is bad for in the first case, treating NN as town is bad in the second case. A day one claim, before there's any desperate need for a scum to fake-claim it, fixes both of these.

The gain in information which scum gets from a day-one NN claim IS NOT SIGNIFICANT. Even IF scum has a tracker, a NN claim reduces their pool of players to track by something like 10% (I haven't done the math but it's about that). And like I said, if the NN plays a good town game he becomes EVEN MORE IMPORTANT for scum to shoot.

Scum knowing not to track the NN is less valuable than town knowing not to track him.

I'm tired of trying to beat sense into y'all about this, and I'm tired of y'all calling me scum over a difference of opinion about game theory. Someone man up and vote me over this trash or start playing the game properly.



The other guy's plan was bad for other reasons. In this case, however, I am right, the rest of you are wrong, and I am trying to persuade you of that. I'm starting to feel like this is a waste of time though.

My case. On Chromatically. Opinions please.

On June 24 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote:
Regarding scum
Current scumread is Chromatically for two reasons.

1) I don't like the feel of his initial posts. Making troll-cases to get the game rolling is fine, I have no objection to that in as of itself, but there's a certain nit-picking quality to his posts that feels wrong to me.


Trying to read something into someone not posting for five minutes is ludicrous.

2) He's been doing a lot of asking other people for their reads while offering nothing even approaching one of his own.

##Vote: Chromatically

On June 25 2013 02:53 hzflank wrote:
I've been waiting for particular posts from Aquanim and Chromatically, which they have now made.

That's a pretty flimsy case that Chrom has made against me. There is no reason to think that I would make a casual opening post when by the time I joined the game there were already five other casual opening posts. I think the game strategy stuff (regarding NN) was as good a discussion as any as it is actually important to the game.

Up until this point I have in no way cared as to whether or not I look scummy, and since I got my scum read from Aquanim's first post it made sense for me to wait until there was a case made against someone before I posted this. It's about time that the scum try to get a wagon rolling and I am happy enough for that wagon to be on me, so I will even help scum Chromatically by ensuring that scum Aquanim also votes for me. Here is my take on the important parts of day 1 so far:

Hurricane is the first to discuss the NN claiming.

+ Show Spoiler +

I wont go into my game theory here but can do in another post if people request, however I absolutely believe that the NN declaring is something that the scum would want. There were several people that disagreed with NN claiming, but importantly no one declared Hurricane to be especially scummy for making the post.

Aquanim then makes a first post that is clever scum. + Show Spoiler +

Aquanim hopes that he can get a few town to agree that the NN should out themselves. Then his scumbuddies can also agree and the NN might claim, giving an advantage to the scum team. Since Hurricane did not get a hard time, Aquanim does not think that he will be lynched for being the first to make the suggestion. Aquanim is fairly sure that when the time comes he can rely on Hurricanes vote for NN to claim, so he really only needs two more town votes, which makes it worth a try.

Aqua's scumbuddy, Chromatically, has already said that the NN claiming is a bad idea. Aqua sees a chance to make a good play here and throws a weak vote on Chromatically. It is still early in the day and there is little chance of a wagon forming. Aqua never intends to leave his vote on Chromatically, but is just creating some distance from him so that it wont look suspicious if Chromatically should change his mind about the NN claim. Ofcourse there is the added bonus that if Chromatically should later flip scum then Aqua can refer to his very first post and claim to be confirmed town.

Next, FirmTofu defends my weak read on him. + Show Spoiler +. The important part about his defence is where he misinterprets my badly written line regarding voting for Spicy. This is my fault as I should have been less ambiguous with my wording, but I hope most people can see what I actually meant. My mistake here makes me a prime target for the scum wagon as there is a reasonable chance that FirmTofu will get on board.

By this point I suspect that either Aqua or Chromatically might put their vote on me, but I cannot say so prematurely, especially since Aqua still has his vote on Chrom. After a little consideration I decide to lurk for a while, as I wanted Chrom to make a post of some sort before I made this claim.

Next we have:


So right after Aqua realised my above mistake with Firm, he asks Firm for his read on Chrom (who aqua still has his vote on). He is either looking for Firm to give him a good reason to think Chrom is town, or he is looking for Firm to give a scum read on me, or both. Either way, Firm is the most likely town to get onto my wagon at this point, so it is good setup.

Here we have Aqua ask Firm again for their opinion on his case on Chromatically. + Show Spoiler +

Remember that this was the case that Aqua put forth in his very first post of the game. It was not a strong case and he knew it would never stand, so it was a good way to both give people a town read on his scumbuddy and also create some distance within the scum team. Firm responds that he thinks Chrom is town, which is exactly what Aqua wanted and why he asked him twice. Aqua has now gotten Firm (the person he thinks he can get to vote for me) to say that the scumbuddy that Aqua has his vote on (Chrom) is town. Well played Aqua.

Shorlty after, Aqua posts this + Show Spoiler +

There he gets in that his read on Chrom is based on feelings rather than evidence. He is telling us that there is no good reason to suspect Chrom while he still has his vote on Chrom. He closed by saying that if Chrom starts to play a good town game then he will move his vote to someone else, which in this case will be the person that Chrom votes for because they are scumbuddies.

Here Aqua mocks Firm for voting due to inactivity because part of their plan was that Firm would vote for me, and he wants to make sure that Firm will move his vote. + Show Spoiler +

Chromatically gets back online and makes this post: + Show Spoiler +

I take that as: 'Okay Aqua, time to unvote me now because I am going to try to start a wagon on someone else and it would not look as good for you to move your vote directly from me to them'.

Surprise surprise, in the very next post Aqua unvotes Chrom, which we all knew would happen after reading Aqua's very first post in this game (where he voted for Chrom). The most important line in this post by Aqua is: 'Those reads were pretty weak, I'd like to see more from you', because that is him paving the way for Chrom to begin the mis-lynch attempt.

And then finally Chrom makes a case against me and votes.

Now, it would be easier for me to vote if I had an individual scum read, but since I am fairly confident that both Aqua and Chrom are scum, I am going to vote for Chrom because I think doing so will force Aqua to take a very strong stance one way or the other. Chrom already has his vote on me, so if I vote Aqua then Chrom does not need to make a decision and can just leave his vote where it is.

##Vote: Chromatically

On June 24 2013 21:49 Spicydinosaur wrote:
@Aquanim I dont like your case against chrom. Our exchange in the beginning was just to get the ball rolling which worked and started generating some content. Its still early D1 but right now im feeling chrom as town.

Looking at FirmTofu as possible scum target.

His first post is pure spam that does nothing to generate discussion

On June 24 2013 21:49 Spicydinosaur wrote:
I'm also not a huge fan of his stance on meta use. He claims that he doesn't want to use meta which would be fine on its own, but here he is using the argument to ignore evidence.



He claims I'm scummy because i am defensive when accused of being scum.

On June 24 2013 21:49 Spicydinosaur wrote:


He acknowledges that it could just be my personality, yet when I link past games to show exactly that, he ignores it. At this point he just backs off his scum claim.

On June 24 2013 21:49 Spicydinosaur wrote:

Next up is the lurker list post which doesnt tell us anything new and just clutters up the thread. We all know who has/hasnt been posting as the filter button is a click away.

On June 24 2013 21:49 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Lastly his vote on fyfy has been bugging me. It is clearly a pressure vote to get him active but why target fyfy over stim? Stim actually posted at the beginning of the day right after the day post, then dissipated. He was there reading the thread but not actively posting. This seems scummier than fyfy at the moment.

On June 25 2013 03:44 hzflank wrote:


I realize that my post focused mostly on Aqua, but my case was that they were working as a team. Any case I have against Aqua alone would be so weak that even I would not vote based on it. If Aqua is scum and Chrom is town then Aqua is much more skilled at this that I am, as it would mean he made it look like he was working with Chrom without Chrom becoming aware of it, and that Chrom played right into his hands. I do not believe that, it makes my connections less likely, and going down that route is more likely to split the vote.

On June 25 2013 03:41 Chromatically wrote:
What's really bizarre is how quickly Tofu agreed with this case. You'd better explain yourself too.

On June 25 2013 04:10 Chromatically wrote:

Why do you think that he is town? Did you read my case?

Where's the town motivation in making up a story purely to hurt my credibility?

On June 24 2013 11:09 Spicydinosaur wrote:


Please point out and explain exactly what you think is scummy.

On June 24 2013 11:17 Spicydinosaur wrote:


Not taking it super seriously, just busting you back. I posted in the thread then went back to reddit. Checked the thread again after a few minutes. I'll be around tonight and early tomorrow morning.

And hey Xzavier.

On June 24 2013 12:28 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
The Case for Spicy:







He later comes in with some actual(if not elegant) points on the game, but they're both just him defending his play in previous games:





Not my favorite play in the world, but at least it's content.

On June 24 2013 12:30 Spicydinosaur wrote:


An intro post saying hi and then answering questions is now fluff?

If you want to talk about fluff then look to your first post.




Nothing useful. All you say is dont claim or dont listen to you.




Just restating whats in the OP. spam



Horrible idea for someone to claim at all this early.



More fluff with nothing of substance.

On June 25 2013 02:12 Spicydinosaur wrote:


The bolded part what bothers me. Trying not to make waves is a perfect way to go unnoticed in a game. Too much activity and everyones looking at you, too little and your a lurker who gets a big spotlight on you.

On June 25 2013 06:42 Chromatically wrote:
I'll look at it when I get back, as well as finish another reread. I think that we're looking in the wrong place,

I'm looking more towards the Xzav/Alaka/Stim/Meow semi-/lurker area.

On June 25 2013 06:58 Spicydinosaur wrote:


I failed quoted it in my post i dont see how you missed it. Additionally whats there to discuss when he was simply restating what the roles were and what they did.



I stated exactly why there was a reason. because stim posted right at the start of d1 then lurked. I felt the lurkers were not equal at the time (before fyfy started posting) so it was a curious choice.



In the games ive played its always seen as a scum move even if done by a townie.



If i thought you were scum i would have no hesitation to vote you first. Like i said before i found your play scummyish and this vote felt very retaliatory which isn't a scum move.

On June 25 2013 07:28 Spicydinosaur wrote:


1) Now you are going with personal insults that you claimed i did on someone else? The quote was talking about the same issue... ie NN.

2) As for fyfy...You claimed there was no difference in the lurkers, i pointed out that there WAS a difference now its a stupid reason? I didnt accuse u of scum off of one line, thats why it was included in a whole post of other reasons.

3) You voted for me when you thought i had voted you. you were wrong then. You cant go back and change your rational for voting me saying its now because i DIDNT vote you and the fact that i didnt vote you is somehow now irrelevent



the bolded is contradictory and makes no sense.

4) The fact that you are not quoting 1/2 of my counterpoints from my original reply means you conceded them and it shows how weak your argument is on a whole. You are constantly changing what your argument is about me just to fit your narrative that you have in your head.

On June 25 2013 07:57 Spicydinosaur wrote:

1. i stand by my response to hurricanes post, his was full of fluff and lacked content. what i said in reply to aqua applies to hurricane because he was the one who started talking about the whole NN issue. It's pretty clear.

2. you keep insisting that im defending fyfy when all i have ever said is that stim looked scummier. YOU are the one who keeps saying that im defending him.

3. This point has been done to death and you keep changing what you are saying about it. First im scum for voting you then im scum for not voting you then im scum and my vote on you never mattered.

4. In your original post where you voted me you had your case. I countered with my 7 points and then you only responded to a few and acknowledged you were wrong on at least one. The fact that you didnt talk about the others shows that you backed off them.



As i said before, for someone who thinks im scum because you think i went personal on someone else, you are throwing insults around a lot.

On June 25 2013 08:14 Spicydinosaur wrote:
I've said everything i need to defend myself and anyone looking at it will see how weak your argument is.

On June 25 2013 11:09 Xzavier wrote:
okay, i just want to say that half of you are fucking retarded,


now, im watching day9. after him, im going to show you all how fucking retarded you are.

On June 25 2013 11:16 Chromatically wrote:

Wow, you replied quickly for someone who has been mysteriously absent all day.

Also very, very defensive.

On June 25 2013 13:28 FirmTofu wrote:
This is good. We are starting to see two groups of people voting for 2 distinctly different people. This will tell us quite a bit post-lynch about who is aligned with who, regardless of the flip. I will not proclaim my leanings yet as we still have to hear from quite a few people and we still have some time before the lynch.

I believe hzflank, Xzavier, and Onegu have all voted Aquanim and Chromatically and Aquanim have both voted Xzavier.

It is funny that hzflank's theory could still be real.

On June 25 2013 14:36 Xzavier wrote:
Okay. heres something plane and simple. what scum in their right mind would call everybody fkn retarded? thats a death wish as scum. it brings so much attention to you. but it CAN be useful as town.

On June 25 2013 14:49 Xzavier wrote:



It provokes reaction albiet im regretting that decision as i recieved a warning for it, rightfully so.
However its useless and counterproductive for scum play.

On June 25 2013 15:29 Xzavier wrote:


Honestly not today. he did a really good jpb as town last game and gave some good insights.

After going threw his filter it seems like he was forced into a defensive posting pattern due to pressure. he hasnt said much recently.

Honestly i wouldnt mind lynching alakazam day 1.

But ill giv him a chance to respond.

Im really not liking chrom or auqa for their tunnelling me while ignoring logic and basing everything off of the fact that i havnt caught scum yet or made a case.

On June 25 2013 16:45 Onegu wrote:

Actually I have made a scum hunt albit small on alakaslam, I think he is noob scum which isnt as important as killing a scum who knows what they are doing.

On June 26 2013 02:19 Onegu wrote:


To be honest I dont care who is killed if Xzavier flips town my vote will go on aquanim and if he flips scum I will vote Spicydinosaur. My current read on Xzavier is null with scum reads on alakaslam and aqua. With every post Alakaslam makes he looks more and more like noob scum to me.

On June 26 2013 02:22 Chromatically wrote:
You don't care who is killed?

On June 26 2013 02:45 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Reacting to what I just posted, the ideal mafia play if they were down a man and the Aqua bandwagon looked doomed to fail would be to switch to Stim. They'd figure I'd switch my vote, and I think FirmTofu mentioned he found Stim fishy as well. Of course, they wouldn't do this if Stim were mafia.

We're about to see some interesting play, I think.

On June 26 2013 05:40 Hurricane Sponge wrote:

If Xzavier flips town, I still probably won't be that convinced that Aqua is scum. These two events are independent of each other in my mind. It could be that both players are Town, and the mafia were simply supporting the bandwagon on the stronger pro-town player. Aqua hasn't posted in a while, but when he does, I like what I feel from him. Depending on Alakaslam's action, he may be a person of interest in questioning.

On June 26 2013 05:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote:


He has an opinion. He thinks both of the current lynch candidates are scum. It's weird, but I see where he's coming from. My guess is that he's trying to establish a voting track record on who he believes is the most scummy person out there. Which happens to be neither of the current candidates. Even though he does believe they're both scum.

Huh, yeah... I guess that is weird.

On June 26 2013 06:07 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
EBWOP: GOD DAMMIT my first broken BBCode. My bad.

TL:DR Spicy is wasting his vote just like Onegu is. Why would Onegu be MORE scummy at this point?

On June 26 2013 08:17 hzflank wrote:
I will try another angle:

LoneMeow was the first to vote on Xzavier. I think that LoneMeow is town. He has never looked scummy to me and he thought that Xzavier was scum for the start. It makes sense that LoneMeow would be the first to vote on Xzavier.

Next to add their vote was Chromatically. Despite my earlier attack, Chrom has been looking more and more town to me. The only reason that I can see a scum Chrom voting Xzavier when he did is if Aqua is also scum, and everyone thought that idea was ridiculous. Therefore, I expect most of you see Chrom as town and the first two people on the wagon as town.

Aqua was the third to vote. Most of you think Aqua is town. That means most of you must think that the first 3 people on the wagon are town.

Is that not odd to anyone? If three townies jump on a scum wagon then there should of been a counter play by the scum team by now. And yet I started the Aqua wagon and I am posting this. It does not make sense.

On June 26 2013 12:29 Alakaslam wrote:

Spicy, work with sponge please. This will lead to town victory. You two (and Onegu) are the most clearheaded in the thread so far, and you've both been right in the face of bandwagon.

Learning, learning....

On June 26 2013 12:36 Alakaslam wrote:

Yeah, maybe, check my late filter. Depends on cases against him. I just gave my vote to a mislynch right after reading town off his filter. Do not expect voting confidence from me yet!

Going to homework, I need it! :p.

Potato may = paranoia. Possibly acute. Along with this homework, I am going to read the town section of the thread I linked again.

If you make cases against me folks don't do it based on the "lurking" I'm about to do for obvious reasons. -_-

On June 26 2013 12:40 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@FirmTofu
Does this exonerate Alakaslam in your mind? (Onegu seemed to have the idea of planting the seeds for a Day 2 Alakaslam lynch)

On June 26 2013 12:40 Chromatically wrote:
Tofu, I'm glad that we are thinking the same thing on Onegu.

I'm going to have another long look at Spicy and see if I can find some good reasons why he wasn't voting Xzav. It's possible that he might have been avoiding that for no reason to avoid suspicion.

I'm off the mind that the Xzav lynch had good reasoning behind it. Knowing what we knew, I would lynch him again (and a lot of strong town agreed with the reasoning, it seems).

On June 26 2013 12:43 Chromatically wrote:
Interestingly enough, it's very much not impossible that none of the scum were voting for Xzav.

I'd still recommend a vigi shot in Stim.

On June 26 2013 12:44 Onegu wrote:


Wow like I told you guys before I slept if xzavier is lynched it will give us a ton of information, and yes now I will be leading the aquanim bandwagon as I felt he was scum and his vote and case on him before makes me feel he is the scummiest. Also makeing the claim I dont care brings way to much heat on me if I am scum when I can just put my vote back on aqua saying I should be on a bandwagon.

On June 26 2013 13:21 Onegu wrote:


My vote isnt a scum tell and neither is my apathy toward who get lynched, jeez think about it, me doing what I did is something only town would do, scum wouldnt do it because of all the backlash if scum really didnt care they would put thier vote on on of the two bandwagons and not say much as to why they voted(1). I gave you reasons for my vote and reasons why I was ok with both of them being lynched, none of that is a scumtell(2). The fact xzavier flipped town we should be looking at people who piled on to his bandwagon they would want to ensure the lynch of the person with the most votes so there isnt a last minute swich onto one of the scum.

On June 26 2013 14:10 Alakaslam wrote:

Waitaminute I just sort I did this in reply to him.

Pah! Make your cases for a minute I swear I don't know if Onegu is scum or not, FirmTofu (who I DO think is town, he granted my wish) says Onegu scum slipped but I think it relies on me being scum and I know better. But iPhone, that is why i didn't see the error in my own post.

Tofu what page did you elaborate on?

Medic, I really hope you exist. You should know who to protect right now. If you think I'm asking for guard you are daft, but I assume you know who needs it.

On June 26 2013 14:18 Alakaslam wrote:

Nvm, page 32. Huh. But... Then is your read on me not 100% scum?

Or do you mean that he would bus or just knew I would not be lynched? I SWORE I'd be lynched because I was a total fail, and I largely felt the case against Xzavier was a rust bucket until I read Aquanim's filter.

Hindsight is perfect, how did Onegu know at that time I would not be lynched?

On June 26 2013 14:28 FirmTofu wrote:
So Alakaslam, if you want to clear yourself in my eyes, you are going to have to vote Onegu. That is the only way I can know for sure that you guys aren't on the same team.

If he flips town(which is extremely unlikely), you are cleared of all blame.
If he flips scum, you will be scrutinized, but I will take some time to reconsider because you did vote for him.

Voting for Onegu is a win-win situation for you if you are town. The only reason you wouldn't vote him would be if you are scum.

The ball is in your court.

On June 26 2013 15:45 Onegu wrote:


You feel you need to bully the most inexperianced mafia player to vote for me? You have no case except a bogus scum tell so you have to bully someone to vote with you?

On June 26 2013 16:11 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
(Quick note, Spicy definitely defended fyfy from Tofu for WAY longer than any sane person would have, much less a mafia. Based on that encounter, Spicy is supertown. I didn't manage to quote the entire exchange in the broken case post, but if you don't believe me, it's pretty easy to find. Just control-F 'Hitler' and work your way backwards.)

On June 26 2013 16:23 Alakaslam wrote:

Because when he helped me he helped town. Let me tack on to that question: why do you scum read me if not for Onegu's "rust bucket" case on me? Gogogo! I knew it was strong!

I agree you aren't bullying but nonetheless- explain why scum Onegu said "don't distract the thread" and "stop putting hypocritical posts and fluff".

I'm not against voting Onegu except that I just can't see mafia doing that so early! They want townies to play bad! Otherwise, yeah I have a null read on him. But the stuff that is town is great town IMO! Also, read Hurricane's findings. Not that Onegu couldn't still be scum but if he is Kudos, he is a prophetic mastermind.

The again, I hear ace is very dangerous.

Basically Tofu, make your case a little stronger and I take notice, otherwise go tunnel me! MI NE FREGGO!

On June 26 2013 16:34 Alakaslam wrote:

You quoted me actually. Who called you scummy in here? Clarify? And I did not, I mean nobody did. Why are you defending against nothing?

On June 26 2013 16:36 Alakaslam wrote:
EBW+P oh. No dude he was calling me out on actually doing those things bro. That's what I'm saying, by shitting on me he was helping town. I was so dumb (still am) that I was making things worse the harder I tried to help.

On June 26 2013 16:43 Alakaslam wrote:
We both need to clarify. I am asking you to specifically state a reason why Onegu corrected my scumminess, until he decided I must be scum as I wasn't improving. Then I added, please make the case against me independent of what Onegu said. Do you think he was bussing earlier? He made his case for me before too but felt aqua was a better target.

But it is really this simple: if scum would tell a townie who was aiding his cause through spam to stop, explain how this is so And why. Do that, and you basically have my vote.

However, when we get paranoid we look scummy. I know by experience. Calm down.

On June 26 2013 16:49 Alakaslam wrote:

Fair enough, I really should be sleeping right now for work tomorrow.

Cy'all!

On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:


Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed.

Just a few posts later he says:
+ Show Spoiler +
Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam.

Tofu, can you clarify this situation?

On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:


So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell.

On August 26 2010 13:08 Ver wrote:
Also, this is a good point to address the misconception that 'lying=mafia,' which is clearly not the case. I lie all the time as town, and much more rarely as mafia. Some may condemn this as inferior play, but lying, among other 'anti-town plays,' lets you open new routes of play that are ordinarily inaccessible if you behave as a 'perfect townie.' Most of the time you have to take a risk if you want to win. Of course the execution is everything, as lying for no gain is just going to make it harder for the town to do anything. And of course, many town players will lie on accident, without reason, or for some bizarre reason or another that you have no way of knowing. A point that will be emphasized continuously is the necessity to differentiate between mafia and bad townie play. You can't just lynch people and when they pop green excuse yourself by saying 'oh they were anti-town anyways.' The goal is to kill mafia, period.

On June 27 2013 03:03 hzflank wrote:


Tofu was one of the people on the wagon. Go back and read how the votes went down. Look at exactly who voted when and the reasons given. If Tofu is town then at least one other person on that wagon is scum. Why is Tofu wasting so much time on people who were not on the wagon?

On June 27 2013 03:15 hzflank wrote:
If you think I was not trying to prevent the lynch then you have not read the thread. I tried, and you stopped me.

On June 27 2013 03:16 Hurricane Sponge wrote:


No, I meant what I said. I was addressing Spicy. Spicy is under suspicion because apparently he didn't defend Xzavier hard enough when he was a town read and one of the leading wagons:

From Chromatically: "What I don't like (and this is a general statement about Spicy, Stim, and Onegu) is that when your vote is not on a leading wagon, you should be doing your ABSOLUTE BEST to push your read. This is especially true if you have a town read on the leader. A townie would do everything that they can to prevent a mislynch.

Spicy defends Xzav a little, but then drops it"

Tofu defended Aqua using every weapon available because he thought Aqua was town.

On June 27 2013 03:25 Hurricane Sponge wrote:


Because if everyone on the Xzavier wagon was town, then the mafia team is Onegu, Spicy and Stim.

On June 27 2013 03:29 Onegu wrote:


My claim against you isnt weak and you havent addressed any of my points. In addition to that you lied in this game and did not come forward with your plan until you were called out on it. Your lieing not only decieved someone you didnt tell them what happend after you got what you wanted until someone caught you in a lie. you are useing very scummy tactics in lieing and bullying and think that is a perfectly normal town thing to do, it isnt it is a scum tactic.

On June 27 2013 03:40 Spicydinosaur wrote:


Its a scum tell in this situation. Why would you need to lie in order to secure their votes? there were already cases against xzavier that you decided not to push. Instead u had to make up lies to get people over. Why was is it so important to lie to lynch Xzavier if his lynch was such a sure thing? You pushed hard for his lynch in a very deceitful way.

Also given the fact that you are refusing to look at people who actually voted to to kill xzavier means u dont want people to look at you. You talk so much now how it was obvious that xzavier was going to be lynched, yet there was a time the vote was 3-3, and then later 4-4. Not at all clear cut. But you keep deflecting away from yourself at every possible turn.

You have yet to comment on how bad your logic was with xzavier and I being scum buddies and your overall play during the lynching period.

On June 27 2013 03:50 hzflank wrote:


Why don't you do some scum hunting?

On June 27 2013 03:53 hzflank wrote:
I wanted to give you a chance to look into it yourselves to earn some town cred, but everyone went straight for Onegu, then when that did not get enough support some of you also poked at Spicy.

I don't want to make any sort of case yet, because I want to be sure who the case will be against, if and when I make it. So i dont want to walk you through it.

I wont be on until the end of the night now.

On June 27 2013 04:08 Hurricane Sponge wrote:


This is an extremely stupid thing to say before the NK.

On June 27 2013 04:20 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I think you're wrong, but if you want to direct your posts at two people who have a combined 10 posts in 70+ hours of the game, you're wasting your time. You should be making arguments that make valid cases on legitimate scum reads, not trying to tailor evidence to secure specific votes.

On June 27 2013 04:26 Chromatically wrote:
I have some thoughts on lying that I'd like to wait until the resolution period to post, but I'm going to assume that Tofu won't be lying again.

There's no way for town to tell if you're a lying townie or scum who's trying to cover up a mistake.

I will be sorely, sorely tempted to policy lynch you if you lie again.

On June 27 2013 04:34 Hurricane Sponge wrote:


I didn't think of this. I will be re-evaluating my thoughts on this matter in light of new information.

On June 27 2013 07:21 Spicydinosaur wrote:


Why the hell are you saying onegu and me when i didnt even raise some of these points against you? I have never said anything on 3 and 4. Your constant manipulation to try to lump us together is absurd. As is the way you misconstrue or even ignore my other against you.

Here is where you tried to lump xzavier and i together because he wouldnt vote for me. Please respond to what i posted in reply that you completely ignored.



Pure manipulation at its finest. Here is what i wrote about his fyfy vote and i never claimed it was scummy, just bothering me.




Also in regards to your point 2: Your refusal to look at meta narrows your evidence. That is a fact. You can argue how useful it could be. But when you say that im overly defensive and its scummy... but it could be explained by personality, and you wont look at meta, which would BACK UP the personality, you refuse. That is just unwillingness to look at evidence.


Last question for you tofu... Why didnt you come forward to the town after your lie to explain what you did? why did u hide it if you are town?

On June 27 2013 07:40 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
I'm starting to think that you two don't like each other very much.

On June 27 2013 07:42 Spicydinosaur wrote:
For the 3rd time quoting... THIS. There is no way you didnt see that in the previous posting.


_____________________________________________________________________




The two people who have the most votes are xzavier and aqua. If xzavier wanted to stay alive then he would keep his vote on aqua, otherwise his own chance of being lynched goes up if he takes it off. The fact that he's willing to take his vote OFF of the other major lynch candidate and onto another he thinks is scummy shows that he is scum hunting a little. Though were his vote ultimately ends up is the real indicator.

I also dont get how him not voting for me makes him scummier now. No one else in the thread bought your argument against me, yet Xzavier is the only one to receive your wrath for doing so? It looks like you are trying to make arbitrary reasonings to reinforce your vote like you did with me.

________________________________________________________________________

On June 27 2013 11:03 Aquanim wrote:

No, there's almost certainly three.

On June 27 2013 11:06 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Spicy is town. This is a winnable game. It's super bad luck that our best role happened to be our most skilled player (easily drawing the mafia shot), but the game is close to being figured out. I guess I'll start the wagon, if no one objects.

##Vote: Onegu

On June 27 2013 11:10 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
@FirmTofu
Don't solicit votes this time. I want to see people's instincts.

On June 27 2013 11:12 Aquanim wrote:

As far as I can tell, your entire town read on Spicy is based on Chromatically being the shot rather than you. As you said, he was in general the best shot. I don't see how this argument makes sense at all.


I'm going to need an actual case from you on Onegu, including a reply to my comments about him here before I take your vote seriously. For that matter, I'd like to see your opinion on my comments on Spicy, too.

If we start a "wagon of justice" on Onegu, ride it all day, and he flips town, we're pretty screwed. I'd like to at least discuss other options.

On June 27 2013 11:18 Aquanim wrote:
For the moment:

##Vote: StiMaDDict

This is no more nor less than a pressure vote, which is something I don't normally do, but we badly, badly need StiMaDDict to get in here and play the game seriously. If nothing else, I refuse to let him win by playing like this if he's scum.

I will continue to assess Onegu and Spicy (as well as other vague reads).

Disturbing thought: If we mislynch and StiMaDDict (or any other townie) is modkilled we lose the game. Immediately.
Don't edit any posts guys

On June 27 2013 11:22 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
Wow. Aqua might have been scum all along. This looks like a desperate vote to try to get ME SPECIFICALLY to pull off the onegu wagon.

Going to revisit all the Aqua heat. Anyone care to update their case on him?

On June 27 2013 18:25 Onegu wrote:


My strongest read to flip scum is firmtofu, he has lied and bullied to get his vote on someone he said wasnt likely to flip scum.

On June 24 2013 16:10 Onegu wrote:

Ok guys meta on peoples play you shold have played with that person at least 5 times, as this is impossible please stop trying to meta peoples play. It is ok to infer somethings on game setup, but people are still learning thier playstyle in a newbie game so you cannot base a scum read on meta play in noob games...

On June 26 2013 20:58 Onegu wrote:


Again this is jsut posting about a discussion we were haveing and posting something on it but not actually giving a good reason. Sorry it is boring is not a legitimate reason to do or not do something in mafia.