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I've got to quote everything and respond to accusations so give me some time.
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On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him.
So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell.
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On June 27 2013 01:48 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 01:29 hzflank wrote:
Chrom, is there anyone besides Spicy whose actions around the lynch seemed scummy? Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 11:59 Chromatically wrote:I think that Onegu comes off worst after this lynch. He blatantly didn't care about whether Aqua or Xzav was lynched: On June 26 2013 02:23 Onegu wrote:On June 26 2013 02:22 Chromatically wrote:
You don't care who is killed? Between xzavier and Aqua. Except just a few posts earlier, he says that he has a null read on Xzav and a scum read on Aqua: On June 26 2013 02:19 Onegu wrote:On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. To be honest I dont care who is killed if Xzavier flips town my vote will go on aquanim and if he flips scum I will vote Spicydinosaur. My current read on Xzavier is null with scum reads on alakaslam and aqua. With every post Alakaslam makes he looks more and more like noob scum to me. So he doesn't care about the lynch, even though he thinks that Aqua is scummier. Why wouldn't he vote Aqua, and why doesn't a townie care about the lynch in the first place? If Onegu was scum, however, he wouldn't care whether Aqua or Xzav are lynched as he knows that they're both town. He also wouldn't want to have his vote on one of them when they flipped because it would draw suspicion to himself. Side note: this works just as well if Aqua is scum. Onegu wouldn't want to vote Aqua because they're scumbuddies and doesn't want to be on the mislynch wagon. Thoughts?
@Onegu
Please address the bottom part of this post. A clear, honest answer would really help your case right now.
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On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell.
Lying is definitely not a scum tell. Read the mafia guide by Ver.
On August 26 2010 13:08 Ver wrote:
Also, this is a good point to address the misconception that 'lying=mafia,' which is clearly not the case. I lie all the time as town, and much more rarely as mafia. Some may condemn this as inferior play, but lying, among other 'anti-town plays,' lets you open new routes of play that are ordinarily inaccessible if you behave as a 'perfect townie.' Most of the time you have to take a risk if you want to win. Of course the execution is everything, as lying for no gain is just going to make it harder for the town to do anything. And of course, many town players will lie on accident, without reason, or for some bizarre reason or another that you have no way of knowing. A point that will be emphasized continuously is the necessity to differentiate between mafia and bad townie play. You can't just lynch people and when they pop green excuse yourself by saying 'oh they were anti-town anyways.' The goal is to kill mafia, period.
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I had no qualms about voteing aqua and was planning on voteing him today until the firmtofu case came up. As I said it didnt matter to me who was killed because I had a scum read on Aqua and a null read on xzavier but depending on how he fliped would focus my day 2 targets, I have said all along I want to lynch Aqua and still do. I cannot make a good case on him but I am trying and keep looking things over. But saying I didnt vote him because I am scum buddies is dumb, If not tofu today and it is between anyone and aqua my vote will go on aqua. But at this point firmtofu I can make a much stronger case on him.
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On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell.
This can be explained as a difference of playstyle. You have been recently accused of not doing everything in your power to save Xzavier from lynch when you thought he was town. Tofu is demonstrating what he's willing to do to save someone he thinks is Town from a lynch.
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Where as the role guide by Ace (linked 3 posts up) says that liars should be the first targets. This is not about Vig, pm coaches if it is about roles. I would say that Ace disagrees with Ver, so the arguments contained in the links cancel each other.
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Also I thought my case on Alakaslam was the stronger case, and I was working on getting him lynched but had to sleep, when I was ready for sleep and saw I couldnt create a strong bandwagon on alakaslam I posted my thoughts and why I was ok with either lynch.
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On June 27 2013 03:00 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell. This can be explained as a difference of playstyle. You have been recently accused of not doing everything in your power to save Xzavier from lynch when you thought he was town. Tofu is demonstrating what he's willing to do to save someone he thinks is Town from a lynch.
Tofu was one of the people on the wagon. Go back and read how the votes went down. Look at exactly who voted when and the reasons given. If Tofu is town then at least one other person on that wagon is scum. Why is Tofu wasting so much time on people who were not on the wagon?
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On June 27 2013 02:59 Onegu wrote:
I had no qualms about voteing aqua and was planning on voteing him today until the firmtofu case came up. As I said it didnt matter to me who was killed because I had a scum read on Aqua and a null read on xzavier but depending on how he fliped would focus my day 2 targets, I have said all along I want to lynch Aqua and still do. I cannot make a good case on him but I am trying and keep looking things over. But saying I didnt vote him because I am scum buddies is dumb, If not tofu today and it is between anyone and aqua my vote will go on aqua. But at this point firmtofu I can make a much stronger case on him.
I don't think you're scumbuddies. I think Aqua is town. I'm confused by your actions. If I saw two wagons forming, one on a Townie and one on someone I thought was Scum, I'd get on that Scum bandwagon no matter what it looked like to make sure the right man dies. I can say this with confidence because it's exactly what I did. If you were town, that's the behavior I'd expect. I could see how maybe if you thought both xzavier and aqua were town or both were scum you could justify your apathy. But having different reads on the two main wagons, and just letting them roll by you baffles me. In a bad way.
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On June 27 2013 03:03 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:00 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell. This can be explained as a difference of playstyle. You have been recently accused of not doing everything in your power to save Xzavier from lynch when you thought he was town. Tofu is demonstrating what he's willing to do to save someone he thinks is Town from a lynch. Tofu was one of the people on the wagon. Go back and read how the votes went down. Look at exactly who voted when and the reasons given. If Tofu is town then at least one other person on that wagon is scum. Why is Tofu wasting so much time on people who were not on the wagon?
Speak plain. Do you have a point?
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On June 27 2013 03:03 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:00 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell. This can be explained as a difference of playstyle. You have been recently accused of not doing everything in your power to save Xzavier from lynch when you thought he was town. Tofu is demonstrating what he's willing to do to save someone he thinks is Town from a lynch. Tofu was one of the people on the wagon. Go back and read how the votes went down. Look at exactly who voted when and the reasons given. If Tofu is town then at least one other person on that wagon is scum. Why is Tofu wasting so much time on people who were not on the wagon?
He meant to say Aqua, not Xzavier. I already explained why I'm "wasting" time with people that weren't on the wagon.
People on the wagon are more likely to be town than people not on the wagon.
Remember that scum KNEW that Xzavier would not flip mafia. Why in the world would they get on a wagon that they knew would not flip mafia?
Logic dictates that their best course of action would be to say they think Xzavier is town, but NOT ACTUALLY TRY TO PREVENT THE LYNCH.
Who are the people who did that?
Onegu
SpicyDinosaur
Alakaslam
You
This is why this group of people is high on my scum list.
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Yes, I have a point. I want people to spend some time looking over the thread (not filters) between the time I voted on Aqua and the time the voting ended. That part of the thread contains the best information we have at the moment. I am drawing some conclusions from it, but it is beneficial to the town if everyone forms their own conclusions from it.
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If you think I was not trying to prevent the lynch then you have not read the thread. I tried, and you stopped me.
On June 26 2013 08:26 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 08:17 hzflank wrote:
I will try another angle:
LoneMeow was the first to vote on Xzavier. I think that LoneMeow is town. He has never looked scummy to me and he thought that Xzavier was scum for the start. It makes sense that LoneMeow would be the first to vote on Xzavier.
Next to add their vote was Chromatically. Despite my earlier attack, Chrom has been looking more and more town to me. The only reason that I can see a scum Chrom voting Xzavier when he did is if Aqua is also scum, and everyone thought that idea was ridiculous. Therefore, I expect most of you see Chrom as town and the first two people on the wagon as town.
Aqua was the third to vote. Most of you think Aqua is town. That means most of you must think that the first 3 people on the wagon are town.
Is that not odd to anyone? If three townies jump on a scum wagon then there should of been a counter play by the scum team by now. And yet I started the Aqua wagon and I am posting this. It does not make sense. There was a counter play! The scum saw that you had already started a vote on Aqua and used that as an opportunity to draw attention away from Xzavier. While I strongly believe you are town because you were the one to start the lynch with some pretty good analysis, I do not believe that the other people pursuing the Aqua wagon are free from blame. The fact that they jumped on Aqua right after Xzavier's bandwagon was gaining momentum is indicative of this fact.
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On June 27 2013 03:10 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:03 hzflank wrote:On June 27 2013 03:00 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell. This can be explained as a difference of playstyle. You have been recently accused of not doing everything in your power to save Xzavier from lynch when you thought he was town. Tofu is demonstrating what he's willing to do to save someone he thinks is Town from a lynch. Tofu was one of the people on the wagon. Go back and read how the votes went down. Look at exactly who voted when and the reasons given. If Tofu is town then at least one other person on that wagon is scum. Why is Tofu wasting so much time on people who were not on the wagon? He meant to say Aqua, not Xzavier. I already explained why I'm "wasting" time with people that weren't on the wagon. People on the wagon are more likely to be town than people not on the wagon. Remember that scum KNEW that Xzavier would not flip mafia. Why in the world would they get on a wagon that they knew would not flip mafia? Logic dictates that their best course of action would be to say they think Xzavier is town, but NOT ACTUALLY TRY TO PREVENT THE LYNCH. Who are the people who did that? Onegu SpicyDinosaur Alakaslam You This is why this group of people is high on my scum list.
No, I meant what I said. I was addressing Spicy. Spicy is under suspicion because apparently he didn't defend Xzavier hard enough when he was a town read and one of the leading wagons:
From Chromatically: "What I don't like (and this is a general statement about Spicy, Stim, and Onegu) is that when your vote is not on a leading wagon, you should be doing your ABSOLUTE BEST to push your read. This is especially true if you have a town read on the leader. A townie would do everything that they can to prevent a mislynch.
Spicy defends Xzav a little, but then drops it"
Tofu defended Aqua using every weapon available because he thought Aqua was town.
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On June 27 2013 01:54 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 06:36 Chromatically wrote:
It helps that I have a town read on everyone on the Xzav wagon, so I really don't think that scum is pushing this wagon at all. I'd be surprised if there are no scum at all on a town wagon. Before the flip you suspected Onegu for the reasoning behind his voting. While the flip does not change his reasoning, I expected it to cause you to reconsider more. Although Meow was the first to vote for Xzavier, with the way it happened I consider you to be the starter of the Xzavier wagon. Therefore, your insight into the votes that your wagon gathered will be very useful. There is no rush, we have 48 hours, but I was just surprised that you started with Onegu and Spicy.
I don't know where you're going with these.
Not caring about the lynch looks bad no matter what the flip is, that's what I said before the flip. Now that we know both wagons were likely town, there is clear scum motivation to not vote for either.
I've stated my reasoning about why Aqua and Spicy look bad, do you disagree?
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On June 27 2013 03:15 hzflank wrote:If you think I was not trying to prevent the lynch then you have not read the thread. I tried, and you stopped me. Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 08:26 FirmTofu wrote:On June 26 2013 08:17 hzflank wrote:
I will try another angle:
LoneMeow was the first to vote on Xzavier. I think that LoneMeow is town. He has never looked scummy to me and he thought that Xzavier was scum for the start. It makes sense that LoneMeow would be the first to vote on Xzavier.
Next to add their vote was Chromatically. Despite my earlier attack, Chrom has been looking more and more town to me. The only reason that I can see a scum Chrom voting Xzavier when he did is if Aqua is also scum, and everyone thought that idea was ridiculous. Therefore, I expect most of you see Chrom as town and the first two people on the wagon as town.
Aqua was the third to vote. Most of you think Aqua is town. That means most of you must think that the first 3 people on the wagon are town.
Is that not odd to anyone? If three townies jump on a scum wagon then there should of been a counter play by the scum team by now. And yet I started the Aqua wagon and I am posting this. It does not make sense. There was a counter play! The scum saw that you had already started a vote on Aqua and used that as an opportunity to draw attention away from Xzavier. While I strongly believe you are town because you were the one to start the lynch with some pretty good analysis, I do not believe that the other people pursuing the Aqua wagon are free from blame. The fact that they jumped on Aqua right after Xzavier's bandwagon was gaining momentum is indicative of this fact.
Yes, you did try. I wasn't being fair when I added you to the list. I don't think you are scum, but you supporting Onegu's weak case against me was making me reconsider.
Anyway, you haven't addressed the core reasoning, so I take it that you agree?
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On June 27 2013 03:04 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:59 Onegu wrote:
I had no qualms about voteing aqua and was planning on voteing him today until the firmtofu case came up. As I said it didnt matter to me who was killed because I had a scum read on Aqua and a null read on xzavier but depending on how he fliped would focus my day 2 targets, I have said all along I want to lynch Aqua and still do. I cannot make a good case on him but I am trying and keep looking things over. But saying I didnt vote him because I am scum buddies is dumb, If not tofu today and it is between anyone and aqua my vote will go on aqua. But at this point firmtofu I can make a much stronger case on him. I don't think you're scumbuddies. I think Aqua is town. I'm confused by your actions. If I saw two wagons forming, one on a Townie and one on someone I thought was Scum, I'd get on that Scum bandwagon no matter what it looked like to make sure the right man dies. I can say this with confidence because it's exactly what I did. If you were town, that's the behavior I'd expect. I could see how maybe if you thought both xzavier and aqua were town or both were scum you could justify your apathy. But having different reads on the two main wagons, and just letting them roll by you baffles me. In a bad way.
I only had slightly different reads it would not have supprised me if xzavier flipped scum, and it didnt suprise me he flipped town. That being said if I had a town read on him what you say is correct and I would have put my vote back on aqua. As it was I put my vote on my best case made a good case for him and when I was going to sleep 8 hours before the deadline it didnt matter much to me who was killed, and it was also possible people would have read my arguement and voted alakaslam also. The problem where I stay is I am usally not up for the deadline so I have to make a vote and decision well in advance of everyone else.
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On June 27 2013 03:16 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:10 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 03:03 hzflank wrote:On June 27 2013 03:00 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell. This can be explained as a difference of playstyle. You have been recently accused of not doing everything in your power to save Xzavier from lynch when you thought he was town. Tofu is demonstrating what he's willing to do to save someone he thinks is Town from a lynch. Tofu was one of the people on the wagon. Go back and read how the votes went down. Look at exactly who voted when and the reasons given. If Tofu is town then at least one other person on that wagon is scum. Why is Tofu wasting so much time on people who were not on the wagon? He meant to say Aqua, not Xzavier. I already explained why I'm "wasting" time with people that weren't on the wagon. People on the wagon are more likely to be town than people not on the wagon. Remember that scum KNEW that Xzavier would not flip mafia. Why in the world would they get on a wagon that they knew would not flip mafia? Logic dictates that their best course of action would be to say they think Xzavier is town, but NOT ACTUALLY TRY TO PREVENT THE LYNCH. Who are the people who did that? Onegu SpicyDinosaur Alakaslam You This is why this group of people is high on my scum list. No, I meant what I said. I was addressing Spicy. Spicy is under suspicion because apparently he didn't defend Xzavier hard enough when he was a town read and one of the leading wagons: From Chromatically: "What I don't like (and this is a general statement about Spicy, Stim, and Onegu) is that when your vote is not on a leading wagon, you should be doing your ABSOLUTE BEST to push your read. This is especially true if you have a town read on the leader. A townie would do everything that they can to prevent a mislynch. Spicy defends Xzav a little, but then drops it" Tofu defended Aqua using every weapon available because he thought Aqua was town.
Ah yes, I read it wrong. I'm not sure what hzflank was getting at, that was truly quite odd.
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EPT
