EPTAnd Aqua, who's your top read?
Everyone, Xzav?
Newbie Mini Mafia XLIII - Page 3
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And Aqua, who's your top read? Everyone, Xzav? | ||
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I'm not used to prompting you for reads and opinions. Don't you have any thoughts on the events of today? hz/Spicy/Tofu? | ||
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My point about you being strong town was just that you know how to scumread. It doesn't matter if you were wrong before, I saw how you know what scumhunting looks like and how to do it. Are you planning on not scumhunting at all this game because it "didn't work out for you" last game? I sure hope not. Your scumread on Aqua is weakly reasoned. You accuse him of posting nothing and shopping thread sentiment, when you posted nothing and then dropped thread sentiment. If someone could tell me the actual points against Aqua, that would be nice, because he really doesn't look like the best lynch for today. Everyone with their vote not on Xzav should move it there or explain why. He's posted fluff when he's clearly capable of scumhunting, and only now comes in with a bad read on Aqua sheeping thread sentiment. He's being extremely defensive in an unnecessary way after one vote on him. Not to mention how he was clearly active lurking when he responded 5 minutes after my case on him after posting nothing all day. | ||
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The point was just that you are capable of scumhunting. You're not doing it. Why? If you really think that Aqua is scum, put some real reasons up. | ||
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However, if someone has demonstrated a capability for making cases/scumhunting/not being utterly useless/etc. there is no reason why that capability should disappear. I won't magically choose to start playing worse just for the sake of changing my playstyle. | ||
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I'll do another case on Xzav soon that hopefully clearly demonstrates why he's by far the best lynch. | ||
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He's mad that we're suspicious of him. We're suspicious of him because he's been posting without scumhunting. He's still not scumhunting. His only scumread is Aqua (who happens to be the easiest mislynch right now), based on one post . He hasn't given any good reasons. If he was town, he would be scumhunting and honestly showing us that he wants to help town. | ||
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WHAT | ||
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I think that Stim's "meta" helps him in this case. The only real point that it's possible to bring against him right now is that he's hardcore lurking (which is pretty bad). However, it really is the standard lurker lynch coinflip. Stim has already shown that he lurks as town. He's lurking harder this game, sure, but Stim isn't a contributor as town or scum. He'd make a great vigi shot, though. The thing is, Stim isn't even trying to act like he's contributing. He's doing nothing, but he's not posting fluff to make it seem like he's contributing. | ||
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It's one thing to be more cautious after a game, it's another to not scumhunt at all. If he were a truly panicked scum i would think he would listen to everyone and start making cases, not go crazy. The whole "If Xzav were scum, he would do x" argument is WIFOM. Maybe he would do that as scum. Maybe he's not and he's trying to trick us. Maybe he's not doing it anyway because he doesn't know how to. He might not be making cases because it's hard to scumhunt as scum. He might not be making cases so people think that it's a "genuine townie reaction". He might not be making cases so that you make the exact argument you're making now. There are a number of reasons why he would react the way he has, and it doesn't make him townier at all. That sort of argument is what makes up most of his defense and now your defense of him, which is why I found his defense thoroughly unconvincing. | ||
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On June 26 2013 00:41 Hurricane Sponge wrote: For me, Xzavier is definitely something big. Could be SK, could be scum, could be... big. He has veiled references that he will be useful Day 2. If his play doesn't shape up in Day 2, I'd be for a Xzavier lynch, but I'm willing to give him that chance. But why aren't you on board for a Xzav lynch today if you think that he's scum or SK? It's very easy for scum to promise future contributions. Xzav has already did this once, but no one said anything when he didn't deliver. Delaying contribution until pressure has subsided is useful for scum. | ||
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The Case for Stim He's a lurker. Lurking is scummy. He lurked as town last game. But he still might be scum. He was active in the pregame, but hasn't contributed. + Show Spoiler + Xzavier was also active in the pregame, but he hasn't contributed. He's also been acting like he contributes when he really hasn't. So it's pretty much a coinflip, but you should just vote Stim anyway. | ||
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The Xzavier Saga --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Episode I: The Xzavier Menace Early game, Xzavier posts fluff that helps him blend in with the town, without doing any sort of scumhunting. The scum motivation for this is to blend in, look like he's contributing, and avoid attention without trying to find scum. I'll just repost my previous case on him, focusing on this part of his play: On June 25 2013 11:05 Chromatically wrote: Most of the Xzavier stuff is really obvious: look at early day 1 and his filter. He spams a lot, posts things that are meaningless, etc. His posts feel loose and casual, but that could easily be an act. Here he actually admits that his other posting has been useless, but then adds yet another useless post talking about how "strong" the town roles are by saying a lot of self-evident stuff. He's posting for the sake of posting. I especially like the part where he says that he'd lynch a claimed parity cop. The other noteworthy post where he literally says nothing. The first sentence is meaningless. He promises more activity later, which I never really like to see, particularly when that activity doesn't occur. Maybe it didn't happen because there was no pressure on him? He ends with a question that doesn't matter because he knows that the deadline is about 2 days away. The exact time doesn't matter at all. I can see a scum Xzav posting this in order to "interact" a little without doing anything. Everything else in his filter is spam. Look at it yourselves. ##Vote: Xzavier Keep in mind, as you read Xzav, that this is not a total noob player. I don't want to rely on meta heavily (at all, really), but at least observe the fact that he does know what he's doing as town. He played a strong town game in XLII, but he is anything but that this game. At the very least, he is certainly experienced enough to know not to lynch a claimed blue. The "noob town" defense doesn't hold water with Xzav because he's clearly capable of being a strong townie. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Episode II: Attack of the Townies Xzavier disappears all day long when the pressure is off of him. This shows scum motivation because he doesn't contribute to town as long as no one is paying attention to him. Xzavier shows up again only when the pressure is on him, because he only cares about defending himself. Not much to say here. It's theoretically possible that he was busy the entire time, and just happened to pop in and start posting right after the pressure was on, but I think that's unlikely. A more likely scenario was that he was active lurking, and only started posting when he needed to deflet suspicion off of him. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Episode III: Revenge of the Xzavier Xzavier's return is extremely agressive at first, but his agression is being faked. He posts EVEN MORE FLUFF, and no scumhunting. His vote goes on Aquanim, who was at the time the most suspicious player to the town. He has minimal reasoning for voting Aqua, showing that he is still not interested in scumhunting and just wants to deflect suspicion. On June 25 2013 11:09 Xzavier wrote: okay, i just want to say that half of you are fucking retarded, now, im watching day9. after him, im going to show you all how fucking retarded you are. Wow, if we're all so retarded, you must have some really good reasons why you're town, right? Nope. So why would a town Xzav honestly think that the suspicion on him is stupid if he doesn't have a good defense? Scum often act like this to make themselves seem genuine and that the suspicion on them is misplaced (see: Kickstart in XXXI). Here's his amazing return post: everything everybody has said about NN has meant nill to me right now, except for the people asking for him to claim. Because him being alive benefits scum more than town, because even if we know who he is, scum can still claim that it was NN and we wouldnt know different, unless you wanted to tail this guy the entire game, essentially wasting a blue role. im lynching somebody if they claim NN. im sorry, i just am. because it doesnt benefit anything, even if your are NN, thats unfortunate, your dead. its like miller, you can claim it all you want, but on my list scum would claim miller too, so it isnt a defense, its just unfortunate circumstances. More policy/claim garbage? This is the least helpful thing that he could possibly be saying. Okay, last game during day1 i went holy fucking shit hard, made a few big blunders, almost got a town lynched over a scum, and that seriously hurt my confidence going into the rest of the game. I dont want to be the center of attention trying to direct town discussion if i cant handle it (as shown last game) It would be much better for me to analyze people, call them bad, and find scum. then to try to be mr. sheriff and totally fuck up the game. Also, posting the list that is located on page 1 is scummy as shit to me, that is useless contribution, because its so much easier to open up page 1 in a new tab to find filters, it literally doesnt benefit anything at all. IF i WAS scum this game, i would try to do exactly what i did last game, because if i made town-bandwagons it would look like last game where i was town, and everybody would just call me a bad townie. First, he tries to excuse his lack of contribution. Then, he repeats an easy suspicion that has already been stated several times. And then he uses the "If I were scum..." argument. This argument is WIFOM, as I've already said, but it also is very easy for scum to use (I should know, I've used it myself as scum). The bold is kinda bullshit? it would be one thing if you said "i kinda just want to lynch you because your lurking hardcore and didnt do that last game!" then i woulda been okay with it, but because you didnt it makes me wonder. What scumhunting was their to do when everybody has 1-2 posts that they most probably arnt going to give away anything. seriously, how bad would somebody have to be to fuck up their first post? misread there role pm? I really dont think thats enough to vote somebody, Asking for fyfy who they would rather lynch instead of encouraging the person your voting for also seems strange. its like saying this is a pressure vote, then taking off the pressure. Its like your trying to pressure somebody but you dont want to commit yourself, like your afraid of making too many people upset. That or your trying to pressure like three people at once, which is impossible with only 1 vote. T.T to me you seem like your trying to press as many buttons as possible and hoping to hit something, in essence thats the plan, but you cant do it all at the same time. A completely noncomittal "scumread". He says things like "kinda bullshit", "it makes me wonder", "It's like your trying to", etc. He's lightly throwing suspicion, but he never actually calls meow scum. Note how he leaves the out at the end, incase he ever needs to artifically switch his read to town. This is a classic wishy-washy scum post. It leaves it open for him to vote Meow later, if that helps him, or to call him town, without arousing suspicion. This post just moved Aqua to my number 1 scum list. ##VOTE Aquanim uhhh. dude, this is your first post in 12 hours, and all you did was a gree with everybody, and say whats already been said. your filter isnt that impressive and you havnt reacted or responded to pressure. you talked alot when it was about the NN meta, which all iv gleaned from is lynch anybody who claims NN at any point in the game. Because it means that they are scum, if they WERE Noisy neighbor, then they would be okay getting lynched, post all of their biggest cases before they died, become confirmed (and dead) town. We re-read his case. If its strong we lynch who he suspects and win. That would be the best way to play noisy neighbor. Claiming NN to stay alive is pretty pointless, you can say it, but it wont keep you alive. So you pretty much were encouraging a useless may as well be spam topic. you havnt actually done anything pro-town, and are using the heat on me and Onegu as a cover in order to not make a splash and still get a mislynch. And this is where he votes for Aqua. Coincidentally, Aqua happened to be under the most pressure at that time, even though no one had actually given reasons. Xzav doesn't have reasons either (legit reasons, at least). This post is a pure sheep onto town sentiment. I also think it's interesting that the first sentance applies totally to Xzav. If Xzav thinks those things are scummy, he should realize how scummy he looks. But he doesn't think that he looks scummy, because We're all "fucking retards" for voting him. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Episode IV: A New Lynch Xzav is clearly the scummiest person in this game. He tried to blend in early game, and didn't try to find scum at all. He dropped out when the pressure was off of him, and only showed up again when there was a case on him. And his defense is only more fluff and trying to redirect suspicion without having any real scumreads by bandwagoning on town sentiment. Lynch him. | ||
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I do think that Spicy can be convinced to switch to Xzavier, so we should be fine if Onegu moves to Aqua (which is what it looks like he'll do). I still haven't heard any points for why Aqua is scum from anyone on his wagon. Can we have an official Votecount? | ||
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