@Hurricane

I need to sleep soon so I wont be on for the end of the night phase. I assume that you will be night killed. Leave me any opinions that you have if you like.

I think it highly likely that LoneMeow is scum who took the easy way out because he did not want to risk implicating his partner. I have noticed the ties between Lone and Aqua (as you did). I am not 100% convinced on Aqua though, but have not put in the time to fully go over all of the conversation between Aqua and Onegu.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 03 2013 08:32 GMT

#1848

On July 03 2013 11:21 Aquanim wrote:
GG Hurricane, it's been fun.

@hzflank, I'm pretty sure I have a better townread on you than you do on me so I'm willing to let you call the shots. Of Spicy and LoneMeow, I think LoneMeow is probably the safer lynch as far as today goes - but I think it might be easier to get StiM on-side to lynch Spicy while you're still alive.

If you're scum you've outplayed me and if StiM's scum I guess I'll just be pissed off.

Although I just had a nasty thought...
- StiM thought that Onegu was a tracker
- Onegu was in fact a (scum) tracker
Do you think that could have been a scumslip?

Does it matter if we lose today or tomorrow? I would prefer to finish it today, while I have some direct input. As long as no one disagrees.

I will re-read the Stim stuff, but I suspect it is just due to the way Stim was catching up with the thread.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 03 2013 08:37 GMT

#1849

There are a few more things that I want to read over. I will probably vote in a few hours.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 03 2013 10:20 GMT

#1850

This is a bit of fluff, you dont have to read this closely if you dont want to. A better post will follow in a while.

Okay. So for the last few days I have been trying to decided between Aqua and Spicy. The reason for this is that Aqua was the biggest driving force behind the Alakaslam mis-lynch, yet Spicy hopped on board casually and I just cannot get a good town on Spicy.

In terms of where votes ended up (and their timing), neither Aqua or Spicy are more scummy than the other. The big voting thing that makes Aqua look more scummy is the timing of Onegu's unvote on day 1. However, betting everything based on the actions of confirmed scum is not a good idea.

One of the most interesting parts of the game is the back and forth between Aqua and Onegu on late day 1 and early day 2. Is it scum-town or scum-scum? I think it is scum-town. Additionally, when you read this part of the thread Spicy makes posts that could either be scum or town (Tries to further explore a wagon on Firm, it goes no where so he lays groundwork for a possible wagon on Alakaslam).

It looks like Chromatically suspected Spicy as scum. Obviously we know that Firm and now Hurricane suspected him. Aqua also had suspicions, and so do I. That is 4 confirmed town a 1 50/50 who have though Spicy scum for a long time, and three of them were night-killed. In particulat, Chromatically was killed while his top 2 scum reads seemed to be Onegu and Spicy (before the action deadline).

As I continue to read, Onegu is really scrambling to avoid being lynched. At the time I did not realise that he was feeling the pressure that much. Anyway, he is still willing to lynch Aqua to save himself. That's a pretty bad scum-scum move imo, since even if he got a lynch on scum-Aqua, the scum team were in a worse position than they started in. Spicy repeatedly tries to remove pressure from Onegu, without applying any. Spicy is more experienced than me, yet even I applied some pressure as well as relieving some.

LoneMeow makes a scummy appearance. Then Onegu claims.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 03 2013 10:43 GMT

#1851

I disagree with Aquanim regarding the day 1 NN and day 2 roleblock claim policy. However, In a game with a doctor and miller (instead of JK and NN), Aqua would be completely correct. Therefore, I believe that Aqua is used to playing with those roles and directly compared them to this game. Aqua's case on fake-claiming Watcher makes sense and the only problem that I have with this is that Aqua made the defence that Onegu should of made. It is possible that Aqua did not think Onegu capable.

On the whole, Aqua has played a good town game (or a good scum game). There are many things in Aqua's filter that scream Town at me.

Spicy appears to have played a much better scum game than town game. There is just nothing in Spicy's filter that gives me a strong town read.

On June 27 2013 10:18 Aquanim wrote:
The point was made early in the thread that Spicy was playing defensively. I would rather term his play as "reactive".

That is spot on. And when combined with:

On July 02 2013 17:36 hzflank wrote:
To conclude: I have been trying to lead a horse to the water, but since it refuses to drink I am now wondering if it is in fact a trojan horse.

I cannot get into the head of a town-Spicy at all. I feel like I spent a long time screaming at Spicy to look at the Aqua-Lone scenario, but he refused to do so. He was focussed on the highly unlikely Aqua-Stim.

Aqua did what you could call defending Lone in the early game. At the very least Aqua left connections between himself and Lone before Lone looked overly scummy. Spicy did not say a great deal about the non-scummy Lone, but once Lone was in a scum position Spicy refused to talk about the possibility of Lone being scum. If I were town in Spicy's position then I would have been attacking Aqua hard, and I would not brought Stim into it at all.

I believe that Spicy was given every chance to solve the game in the case of an Aqua-Lone scum team, but he could not see it because Spicy is not looking at the game from a town point of view. From a scum point of view, Spicy did not see the need to bus Lone until it was too late.

I realise that there are other possibilities such as Spicy-Aqua or the mysterious Stim. However, I really have spent far too much time on this game already. We cannot be 100% certain that I am correct, in fact we cannot even get close to certainty, but at some point we have to go for it and try to win.

Aqua, if you are scum then well played, Sir.

Stim, if you are scum then I am voting for you every single day in future games that I have with you.

I am ready to vote for Spicy and follow up with a day 5 lynch on Lone.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 03 2013 10:44 GMT

#1852

##Vote: Spicydinosaur

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 03 2013 11:07 GMT

#1853

I will get in early and say:

Thank you to everyone involved in the game. It was new to me and I have certainly learned a lot.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 03 2013 14:24 GMT

#1856

On July 03 2013 22:39 StiMaDDict wrote:
Whether your time spent in this game was worth or not, we shall soon see. Also sorry for playing a bad town but you won't have to vote me in the future. GG WP to you, sir.

##Vote: Spicydinosaur

Any other way would of been boring anyway.

We want to have to come back from a 4-3 LYLO after a day 1 mod-kill where we also mis-lynch, then have our cop killed night one and mis-lynch our only other power role day 2.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 03 2013 15:33 GMT

#1859

Spicy, I don't believe that I mentioned night-kills in my case. I never took them into consideration because it gets too WIFOM..

On July 03 2013 23:53 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Lone didnt move up on my scum radar till he posted the case on you which i immediately stated i didnt like.

This is the problem. We were down to 5 players for the last 72 hours (Onegu and Hurricane did not count). Apart from yourself that is only 4 other players. If you were town then all 4 of them would have been on your scum radar. But you did not pro-actively scum hunt. You have played reactive to everything.

On July 03 2013 23:53 Spicydinosaur wrote:
As most others think stim is town im voting for my second scum pick of aqua.

Regardless of whether you are town or scum that statement should not be true. You should be voting for Aqua because that was your only realistic chance of winning the game. It does not matter whether he is your first, second or seventy-seventh scum pick.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 03 2013 16:46 GMT

#1861

I've looked at Aqua. I've looked at him alone or as a partner with Lone, Stim or you. I also looked at Lone, Stim and you.

If I did not look at Aqua then I would be voting for him, for obvious reasons.

I'm sorry, but your posts have made me more confident that my vote is already in the correct place.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 04 2013 22:54 GMT

#1865

I will not be on for the deadline.

Lone's vote makes me think that I made the wrong choice, but that's WIFOM.

I hope people will forgive me if I lose this. I (or we) really needed to play better on day 1 or 2. If we still had two chances I would be confident, but one is not enough.

I expect that I have missed something obvious and that people in obs chat think I am dumb. But that's that, I tried.

gg.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 05 2013 07:43 GMT

#1871

Oh hell yeah

gg Spicy.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 05 2013 14:16 GMT

#1872

Okay, so someone gets nightkilled then we lynch Lone, and that should be a win for Town.

You guys have no idea at how close I was at lynching Aqua. I had Lone firmly in my scum camp after Alakaslam's flip, but thought that Aqua was the other scum. I was probably around 90% Aqua and 10% Spicy. Then over the next 72 hours or so it very slowly shifted to 60% Spicy 40% Aqua.

If Spicy had gone after Aqua and/or Lone and mostly kept Stim out of it I would probably still thought that Spicy was town. There are a surprising amount of coincidences in this thread that made it look like Aqua/Lone.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 05 2013 20:28 GMT

#1880

gg LoneMeow. Sorry if I was harsh with you, I may have gotten a bit carried away.

Well played everyone.

I don't know if I dare read the obs chat, but it may be hard to resist.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 05 2013 20:30 GMT

#1882

Thanks to Hapahauli too.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 05 2013 20:44 GMT

#1888

Haha, I am surprised my silly Vet claim caused so much discussion in scum QT :p

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 05 2013 20:57 GMT

#1898

I would imagine that it is easier for newbies to learn town than to learn scum, for the scum coach should probably take a more active role than the town coach, anyway.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 05 2013 20:59 GMT

#1900

To be fair Lone, Town really picked their game up after Onegu. I would put the result more on Hurricane and Aqua than on you. Aqua had to walk a real tightrope for a long time in order to avoid being lynched.

hzflank

United Kingdom2991 Posts

July 05 2013 21:10 GMT

#1905

I did pickup on your lack of contact with Spicy, I think I mentioned it late on. But to be honest, I only noticed it because it was in contrast to your contact with Aqua, who mentioned you several times.