Catch 22 Mafia

On June 21 2013 13:49 DarthPunk wrote:


Calm the fuck down. Jesus. Hapa is like the most obvious scum ever. WE don't need to overreact off one throwaway post. PLus it's his first post of the game and oates was being silly. Seriously though, what the fuck is going on with everyone this game?

On June 21 2013 13:57 yamato77 wrote:

Hapa and I know each other well. Don't concern yourself with what goes on between us.

On June 21 2013 13:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
cora is town because what dp?

On June 21 2013 13:59 Sylencia wrote:


Until goodkarma was scum last game yet no one listened to us :D

On June 21 2013 14:06 yamato77 wrote:

I said I would breadcrumb my alignment to you.

But since you're scum, you know my alignment already.

On June 21 2013 14:09 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hapa.
I only tunnel day 1.
And only in selected games.

So its not like I do it all the time or the whole game.

DP meta please

On June 21 2013 14:24 yamato77 wrote:

Coag and DP are the only people I'm actually worried about at this point.

On June 21 2013 14:32 yamato77 wrote:

It's precisely that neither of you have done anything particularly townish at all that worries me. It's obviously early, but I have quite a few soft town reads already.

On June 21 2013 14:36 yamato77 wrote:

It's a process of elimination, obviously. I'm not worried about the other people who have posted. I am still perplexed about DP and Coag's alignment. I don't think there's that much to argue about, really. Both of you seem to be admitting to the fact that nothing he has done is alignment indicative.

On June 21 2013 14:41 ShiaoPi wrote:
why is yamato so pro at looking scummy as shit regardless of what alignment he is? anyone tell me? Or am I remembering wrong?

On June 21 2013 14:41 yamato77 wrote:

I have weak town reads on most of the other players in the game, for varying reasons. At the very least, I can ignore them until later in the game when their alignment should be clearer.

Why DP isn't one of those town reads is cause for concern, yes. He's been perfectly readable in the past.

On June 21 2013 14:45 ShiaoPi wrote:


go ahead and try lynching me then <3

On June 21 2013 14:41 ShiaoPi wrote:
why is yamato so pro at looking scummy as shit regardless of what alignment he is? anyone tell me? Or am I remembering wrong?

On June 21 2013 14:48 yamato77 wrote:

Sloosh and Sylencia are people to ignore until later in the game. Sloosh is obvious as town and absolutely lurk-fucking-tastic as mafia. No need to concern myself when time will tell with him. Sylencia might be a coinflip either way, to be honest, so I ignore him until he flips or something.

OO's townread of Oats is ballsy at that point. I don't expect a scum OO to jump into the game calling someone under fire town.

Coag is worth worrying about because I have no idea how he plays, but he's obviously here, reading the thread, just not very active except when mentioned.

On June 21 2013 14:52 Coagulation wrote:
Yamato can go on sideboard for now. I want to see you guys do the marv thing over because it was dropped entirely too fucking fast and conveniently.

On June 21 2013 14:59 goodkarma wrote:
@Hapa:

Why you unvote Oats?

On June 21 2013 14:55 goodkarma wrote:
I'd say that right now I'm most suspicious of Oats.

He's called multiple people scum already, including: Cora, Hapa, DP, and has sheeped onto Yamato. But what I've failed to see from him is conviction in his reads. This is something I've seen from Oatsmaster in the past, even this early into the game, and I'm not seeing it here.

Oats, care to explain your current thoughts on DP and Hapa?

On June 21 2013 15:07 Oatsmaster wrote:
coag makes me laugh, hes town

On June 21 2013 15:18 goodkarma wrote:


Different people play scum in different ways. You say that the way Oats has played so far would be impossible for scum because there's "no survival instinct." I would strongly disagree with that. Oats so far hasn't really persay tunneled anyone all that hard. Coming from a game where he (as town) literally devoted all his energies to trying to get me lynched, his play this game is dramatically different. Sure, it's early and he could maybe not have that guy he's feeling really strongly is scum, but it is odd that he can so lightly jump on and off of people the way he has. Especially what he did with Yamato felt a bit off to me, more or less completely sheeping thread sentiment while entirely abandoning any focus on his prior scumreads.

I really haven't seen this "lack of survival instinct" you seem to have. This is a guy that as town waves his arms in the air and begs to get mislynched or vigshot for how scummy he looks. Here, I'd say he's not really acting like that.

On June 21 2013 15:44 DarthPunk wrote:


Do you agree or disagree with what hapa said about townies often being paranoid and casting suspicion on many different people for this reason?

On June 21 2013 15:54 goodkarma wrote:


It was the first few hours I was in the game, so as far as I'm concerned it was day one. And it was based off my first post, so he literally is capable of megatunneling off basically nothing... But that's not really my main issue with him. I'm still having trouble understanding how he can so easily forget about you and DP when jumping onto Yamato.

Also have you learned your lesson from Axel and Shao last game? Activity =/= towniness. Oats is always pretty active, so that's not particularly indicative of anything.

On June 21 2013 16:05 cDgCorazon wrote:


Well it's not like I'm going to convince everyone. I feel like Hapa is giving Oats way too much slack for his shoddy play. Hapa's lack of scum reads disturbs me a bit, but he's low on my priority list right now.

I'm not gonna call anyone scum for disagreeing with me. I'm just a bit disappointed that Hapa doesn't agree with me =(

On June 21 2013 16:13 cDgCorazon wrote:


Then what do you make of the fact that he hasn't contributed much to the discussion and has only managed to murk up the thread will really silly sheeping/unexplained arguments and acting like an idiot.

On June 21 2013 23:02 ShiaoPi wrote:
gk's case on oats is pretty trash. Gut feeling says scum to me at the moment, maybe because it feels a lot like his posting last game, where we both were scum.

##vote: goodkarma

oh yamato is nullish dude who looks scummy if that clarification was needed

On June 22 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote:

1) He makes a terrible opening post that he tries to brush off as meaningless

2) He goes on to divert attention to someone else

ScumShiao

On June 22 2013 04:13 yamato77 wrote:
I'm not entirely sold on this GK thing, though. It doesn't seem all that out of the ordinary to be confused by how Oats plays. Aside from that, I believe everything he is writing is from a town perspective.

And yet your opening post that highlights why you’re voting me says it’s based on how I played last game, which is the very definition of a meta-case.

Yet… Your case is in fact literally based solely on meta…

On June 21 2013 23:02 ShiaoPi wrote:
gk's case on oats is pretty trash. Gut feeling says scum to me at the moment, maybe because it feels a lot like his posting last game, where we both were scum.

##vote: goodkarma

oh yamato is nullish dude who looks scummy if that clarification was needed

Yet… Your case is in fact literally based solely on meta…

On June 22 2013 04:39 yamato77 wrote:
GK's other point about Shiao's other reads being nonexistent rings fairly true. His list post with a bunch of null reads and suspicion on Sloosh/Sylencia as about all we have to go off of, and it's not impressive.

On June 22 2013 07:43 slOosh wrote:

More or less. The general things that caught my eye were ObviousOne's entry and ShiaoPi's entry.

On June 21 2013 14:36 yamato77 wrote:

It's a process of elimination, obviously. I'm not worried about the other people who have posted. I am still perplexed about DP and Coag's alignment. I don't think there's that much to argue about, really. Both of you seem to be admitting to the fact that nothing he has done is alignment indicative.

On June 21 2013 14:41 yamato77 wrote:

I have weak town reads on most of the other players in the game, for varying reasons. At the very least, I can ignore them until later in the game when their alignment should be clearer.

Why DP isn't one of those town reads is cause for concern, yes. He's been perfectly readable in the past.

On June 22 2013 04:03 yamato77 wrote:
So if it isn't alignment indicative, as the both of you claim, I suppose there's nothing else about his posting that raises any alarms.

##unvote

Notably, he is on my watch list still.

On June 21 2013 14:45 yamato77 wrote:

This is the kind of thing I expect out of a scum Shiao.

On June 22 2013 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote:
vote for him hapa. voteee

On June 22 2013 04:03 yamato77 wrote:
So if it isn't alignment indicative, as the both of you claim, I suppose there's nothing else about his posting that raises any alarms.

##unvote

Notably, he is on my watch list still.

Why would scum OO call Oats town at that moment? Unless he's just posting to post, I don't see it. that may be the case, but I feel that it's more likely that he's town from that post than scum.

Perhaps my phrasing has been poor this game, but being clear with how I feel about a particular player's posting when things are not as black and white as I'd like them to be is difficult. I think it's fairly obvious that I'm not particularly confident in any read.

On June 22 2013 17:13 yamato77 wrote:
My problem with you is that you seem afraid to call me mafia, like you're scared that I'll insta-tunnel you for it and get you lynched. This doesn't feel like the organic line of questioning I usually receive from town Hapa at all.

On June 22 2013 17:31 yamato77 wrote:

Do you think DP seems particularly interested in this game? I don't.

You being timid in a game is how you seem as mafia. I don't like that you seem sheepish with your timing of questioning me right after Oats and DP state their suspicion of me.

On June 23 2013 04:12 yamato77 wrote:
Hapa, what do you make of DP and the vote shenanigans?

I analysed it on the last page.

On June 23 2013 04:20 yamato77 wrote:

1) It doesn't makes sense at all from a town perspective.

2) I don't suspect anyone else but shiao/ange/adam and they are all afk lurkers. There's no one who is both active enough to place that vote to try to get me lynched and also someone that would have any interest in lynching me.

On June 23 2013 04:25 yamato77 wrote:
For example, it obviously not you or Marv. I doubt that Sloosh, GK, OO, or Coag made the vote. That leaves shiao/ange/adam as all afk lurkers who wouldn't have had the timing to made the vote. Oats, Rayn, and Cora have no reason to hide their suspicion of me.

Who is it, then? DP is the only one that makes any sense. And it's obviously not a town vote.

On June 23 2013 04:29 yamato77 wrote:

That's just it, OO and Cora are probably town. The secret vote was placed on me to get me lynched, and it's actually working.

Who has a vested interest in actually getting me lynched? DP. It's obviously his vote, and he's obviously not town. A townie would claim the fucking vote even if they did have it, because they have no reason to hide their intent to lynch.

On June 23 2013 04:38 cDgCorazon wrote:
Hey guys, I'm back. I'm really glad to see we steered off the DP lynch train because that was literally the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

Yamato, the fact that you're not trying to defend yourself and instead are trying to WIFOM your way out of lynch shows that you're just grasping at straws here.

On June 23 2013 04:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
You're running under the assumption that the vote is from an anti-town faction. That's not very good logic.

The problem is that now that you're on the chopping block, you're finally sticking to a singular read instead of flip-flopping. It's too late man. Too late. I can't tell whether that move is out of desperation or you actually think DP is scum. I don't agree with that, so I'm more inclined towards leaning that your attempt you get DP lynched is born out of desperation and not born out of scumhunting.

On June 23 2013 04:54 cDgCorazon wrote:
Ok, can someone run me through OO's "scum claim"? I'm really confused about it.

On June 23 2013 04:57 cDgCorazon wrote:


The problem is there's like 3/4 people who can be accused of the same thing. That's why I'm leaning away from an OO lynch today.

On June 23 2013 05:03 ObviousOne wrote:
Back in an hour it's pizza time woot

On June 23 2013 05:07 yamato77 wrote:
Hapa, vote DP right now so that I don't get lynched, please.

On June 23 2013 05:09 yamato77 wrote:

We have 1 hour.

On June 23 2013 05:15 cDgCorazon wrote:


DP is town.

I'm willing to give Ange some more time to get more of her opinions out more: she has done a good job asking questions and if she's town and just hasn't explained her reads a bit more thoroughly it would be a really bad lynch for town.

I'm in favor of lynching Oats, Yamato, or sloOsh.

My problem is lynching sloOsh is that I could blame Adam, OO, and Ange for mostly the same things: lack of scumhunting and lack of activity. Why single out sloOsh?

On June 23 2013 05:28 cDgCorazon wrote:
I have a strong feeling about DP being town for a couple of reasons:

1. His play has been productive and level-headed for most of the game. He is contributing to discussion and I don't believe he is hiding anything. His play seems very genuine to me and he has been very logical and reasonable in everyone he has analyzed. I don't see anything in his filter that looks scummy to me.

2. There have been a couple points where Hapa has been under fire. Instead of joining the wagon or not saying anything, DP has come out multiple (at least 5 times) to say that a Hapa lynch is a really stupid idea due to Hapa's importance to town. It would be so easy for scum DP to jump on the Hapa lynch train or to just sit out of the way and let a Hapa lynch train form. The fact that he went out of his way to defend Hapa means that he wants to keep Hapa alive for as long as possible, which would be super beneficial to town.

On June 23 2013 05:30 cDgCorazon wrote:


Well if there were 5 people that could be lynched (with ShiaoPi), I would lynch them all.
Every time we lynch a lurker D1 they always flip town. That's why I'm almost always against LAL.

On June 23 2013 06:00 marvellosity wrote:


Actually he promised me he wouldn't do such shenannies this game. It's in some thread somewhere but I can't remember where.

On June 23 2013 06:02 marvellosity wrote:


I've heard not a peep from you about what you said about rayn, by the way. What gives?

On June 23 2013 06:05 marvellosity wrote:
Now's not the time but after the lynch I want to know what it is that were setting off your weird-bells. He was already looking really townie to me at that point.

On June 23 2013 06:12 Ange777 wrote:
Sorry I just got back home. Catching up now. If there is anything I should read immediately please tell me.

On June 23 2013 06:24 marvellosity wrote:


I dunno :/ Basically waiting for slOosh / Ange to report their findings. coag's just a crapshoot. Obvious sounded better but now he's disappeared again. I'm just browsing GK's filter since you mentioned him. What's the strongest point(s) against him would you say?

On June 23 2013 06:35 Ange777 wrote:
I am still only on page 36 and so far I would like to lynch DarthPunk. Hapa, you said, I should concentrate on GK or ShiaoPi but I haven't seen them posting yet.

On June 23 2013 06:43 marvellosity wrote:
I just don't get why a mafia DP would decline repeatedly to comment on the Hapa case. It doesn't make sense to me.

On June 23 2013 06:47 marvellosity wrote:


I think Oats was right though, as mafia why not just answer the question? I can understand as town thinking you were a dumb lynch and not wanting to talk about it. Why even pick a fight there?

On June 23 2013 07:02 marvellosity wrote:
Hapa we're an hour out, can you start pushing things? :/

On June 23 2013 07:07 Hapahauli wrote:


I'd like to think I've been pushing discussion quite well for the past two hours. If you want me to lock onto a single read, well I just went and did it (though somewhat reluctantly). I do as well think GK is the better lynch, but I can't say with a straight face that I would object to seeing DP hang. And it looks like your attitude is exactly the same.

On June 23 2013 07:28 Adam4167 wrote:
Alright i'm here. Its 7am and so cold my teeth are chattering.

Understanding we're short on time here, who should I filter dive QUICKLY.

On June 23 2013 07:29 slOosh wrote:
Marv, could I have your thoughts on Hapa's general attitude toward DP?

On June 23 2013 07:31 slOosh wrote:

Huh? Why would you look bad?

On June 23 2013 07:32 marvellosity wrote:


ROFL. That's hilarious because I ain't gonna lie, those thoughts have run through my head too

On June 23 2013 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Ok that's definitely not the direction we want to be heading.

Could you reiterate your hesitations on lynching DP / larger sureness on lynching GK?

On June 23 2013 07:42 slOosh wrote:
Cool - now could you give your thoughts on the validity / personal agreement with each other's explanations?

On June 23 2013 08:00 slOosh wrote:
Cora scum, DP town, GK scum scenario where cora is trying to look good by risking to put his vote on a teammate?

On June 23 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:
Not sure if I feel good or bad

On June 23 2013 08:11 Coagulation wrote:
btw I lynched that motherfucker nice and ez yall can thank me later for not being shit town like the rest of you and wasting my vote.

marv dies next.

On June 23 2013 08:12 cDgCorazon wrote:
This is why I never talk about my town reads.

Anyways, I'm not entirely sure if I should claim seeing as I'm getting lynched tomorrow.

On June 23 2013 02:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
##unvote
##vote:oo
CONSOLIDATION

On June 23 2013 01:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
why are you not posting about who is scum OO

On June 23 2013 01:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
cause he doesnt want to derail lynch train on OO which you guys successfully did. Well done.
Notice OO is gone.

On June 23 2013 01:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
marv is scum

Why the fuck are you lynching DP.
why.
Its so fucking easy to comment on the hapa case.

On June 23 2013 01:28 Oatsmaster wrote:
So yamato thinks DP is scum because his interest has waned. Interesting.

On June 23 2013 01:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
well basically my point about asking yamato is because he doesnt have enough content in his filter about DP to replace a case. Just general impression "NOT INTERESTED IN THE GAME". Which is highly subjective. Also he never asks DP anything. Notice that Yamato only votes for DP after he is under some pressure.

On June 23 2013 01:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
so how in the world do you think yamato is town when he is blatantly wrong about the interested thing? And yamato isnt bad at the game.

I dont get how in the world you think yamato is town man. I dont. He has twice now made a case or something on someone and within a page, unvoted them off like 1 post. He stopped talking about DP now that we arent gonna lynch him. He is utterly useless. This guy is SCUM

On June 23 2013 02:06 Oatsmaster wrote:
I kinda think hes scum for thinking yamato is town.
Also random vote on DP for no reason.

But its marv.

I dont know.

On June 21 2013 14:33 DarthPunk wrote:


I said you were scummy. not scum. You are always scummy though. so you're still null for me.

The point Was that it is difficult to see through blatantly scummy shit like retarded tunnells and shitting up the thread enough to make a town read straight up. Especially when your town game is similar to your scum game in a lot of ways. Like I know you always play scummy. But would you expect obvious to know that and to give you a town read in the context of the thread? I wouldn't. and that is what is off about the whole thing.

On June 21 2013 14:26 DarthPunk wrote:


Obviously, or why would I say it? I didn't like how he just came into the thread with a town read on fucking scummy oates with all this reasoning. Seemed contrived to me. Like his first post is this big thought out town read on the guy shitting up the thread.

That kush thing pissed me off too.

On June 23 2013 10:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
rofl. G am dsunk amwd thais was goodm. If viagi shoot coag plz.

On June 23 2013 11:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats is town and whatever you say Hapa is not gonna change that.
You are scum.

On June 23 2013 11:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
FU. I just got home from midsummer party. You din't even vote for DP.

On June 23 2013 11:54 Oatsmaster wrote:
Thoughts on Marv Hapa?

Marv - If marv was scum, I don't know how we would have ended up lynching DP. Marv is a fairly pro-active scum player and great at pushing his agenda. Furthermore, his interactions and thoughts seemed fairly genuine. There's nothing illogical or scummy about how his end-of-the-day voting actions or suspicions. He seemed pretty interested in figuring out the game.

On June 23 2013 11:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
Also you never changed a read slowly because you just kept posting with this person and he agrees with you and whatnot? Considering hes in the same Timezone as me.

On June 23 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why wouldnt I do it with DP when my attitude is CLEARLY that he is town? Do you think it makes more sense as scum or town to 'forget' to call DP town?

On June 23 2013 12:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hapa, can you answer my questions in my case against you?

On June 23 2013 01:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Unvote:
##Vote: Hapahauli

I don't like the fact that he has disappeared since i laid out my case. Unless he has something reasonable to say i'll be voting for him and you all should do that aswell.

He is not wanting to be a town leader here.

He is asking random questions from random people. He had Goodkarma as his top scum read, then suddenly went on voting for Sloosh and after that dropped the "GK is my top scumread"...

...did not answer me about that when asked, masked it with a question about yamato for me and went on with "something is off with rayn and DP", didn't explain that any more and said he would be writing stuff about me later. Does this sound like a townie behaviour?

This is probably because yamato is mafia too, and with no real direction in the game right now, he might get lynched. If mafia does not do something soon, one of their own will get lynched so they are trying to pursue more and more targets to hide in the shadows.

Now Hapa, am i bullshitting in what i said here and if i am not, why do you think i am scum? You have seen me play scum in a game that i was actually able to play to the fullest. Why do you actually think yamato is town? You basically ask him questions and whatever he answers you reply with "okay, that's fair enough". You are taking him at face value at the earliest possible moment, and that's really REALLY fishy. Yamato never explained his reasoning behind his town-reads actually being null yet you have never talked about that again. You labeled GK as your top scum read and after that you place a vote on Sloosh and after one post from him you take the vote back and hop on entirely different things. It does not make sense from town PoV.

On June 23 2013 12:07 Oatsmaster wrote:
Lol why you give up?
BECAUSE YOU ARE SCUM.

Anyway yeah Scum is Hapa and Marv currently.

On June 23 2013 12:20 Oatsmaster wrote:

wifom
also I thought you said you werent good at scum

On June 23 2013 12:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yes, i do believe yamato is town for his actions now, as we have a fucking mafia flip.

I however did not know that when i wrote the case, so please... do not associate the case on yamato at any point because:
1) it's not
2) it's not

On June 23 2013 12:24 Oatsmaster wrote:

You didnt vote for scum. You scum.

and no im not gonna substantiate my reads at this point of time.

On June 23 2013 12:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:

You are not trying to solve tha game, you are trying to lynch whoever you can and that's bad.
Basically that.

On June 23 2013 12:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
cause i feel like his play in this game is way different from his play in ISWEAR. There he just occasionally posted null reads and stuff and never really interacted with the thread. Here, he pushed me, push shiao pi. So when marv has bad reasoning for both GK and Yamato, its really not great. Doesnt mean right = good reasoning for yamato.

On June 22 2013 01:24 Oatsmaster wrote:

Its not surprising that you cant see the exact same thing that you did to me. poo.

yamato isnt in the thread, i think GK might be scum, I wanna lynch yamato today.

On June 23 2013 12:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Everything!
Can you say how you are trying to solve the game? Seriously, wtf?

On June 23 2013 12:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
DP flipped scum hapa.

On June 23 2013 12:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
I think my case on you Hapa was very clear. I'm not a fan of quoted posts and shit, i said what i saw in your play and i think you are scum. Why is this so hard?

On June 23 2013 12:35 Oatsmaster wrote:

my point is that I rethought the game, read GKs filter when I woke up and realized that HE WASNT SCUM.
WOOHOOOOO.

On June 23 2013 12:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
nothing is based on yamato being scum. wtf are you saying?

On June 23 2013 12:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
and nothing is also based on things you "were doing when you were asleep".

On June 23 2013 12:38 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hapa, how in the world can you not see that the 'you didnt vote scum, you are scum' is a joke?
How.

All i was saying was that you viewed yamato as town (if you can read the case ffs) with very little reasoning, which sets off alarm bells for you. So no, i have never said yamato's alignment has something to do with yours (besides the fact that i thought you were both scum, which i have changed my opinion on - but that has NOTHING to do with the case on you).

and why did you not say this about GK before the flip? I asked you about it.

On June 23 2013 13:02 Adam4167 wrote:


Kitaman would beg to differ.

On June 23 2013 13:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:

You underlined it, i did not. I was saying Hapa was on GK wagon and i don't think he never pursued it as he would as town (see my original case). I am not as cheap to say "Hapa is scum because he was on the wrong wagon" as i do know that means nothing. Now, sleep.

On June 23 2013 13:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
FUCK I HAVE SAID OATS IS TOWN, I HAVE GIVEN REASONS FOR IT ALSO!

On June 23 2013 12:24 Oatsmaster wrote:

You didnt vote for scum. You scum.

and no im not gonna substantiate my reads at this point of time.

On June 23 2013 12:38 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hapa, how in the world can you not see that the 'you didnt vote scum, you are scum' is a joke?
How.

On June 23 2013 13:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
if you can't read my filter and see what do i think of Oats you are lazy as fuck or have other intentions.
Now, I REALLY AM GOING TO BED. CYA TOMORROW.

On June 23 2013 13:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
hey hapa.
did you read the 2nd part?

yeah.
Yeah.
Deliberately twisting my words.

Also Im town, so I guess your meta read is inaccurate. poo.

1 reason that we can discuss is I feel Yamato wasnt even CLOSE to playing to his town meta day 1. So how in the world do you think that Yamato is town for meta reasons. HOW.

On June 23 2013 13:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
Except Ive probably played with yamato more than you.
being right doesnt mean you are town.
Also do you not remember going for his throat mid d1? When did this supposed metaread come into play?

:o.
nope.


because its night and I cant be arsed to make a case with no one to convince.

On June 23 2013 13:34 Oatsmaster wrote:
hapa is wrong.
Can we lynch hapa.

THERE CASE. HAPPY?

On June 23 2013 13:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
marv cause he has bad reasoning for yamato being town.
Coag cause he is NOT USEFUL. IN THE SLIGHTEST.

On June 23 2013 13:40 Oatsmaster wrote:

So why do you think you are right this time?
I mean you have a track history of getting my alignment wrong.

On June 23 2013 13:41 Oatsmaster wrote:

oh he voted for DP. Coag town.

He said he was acting like normal town yamato. When he wasnt. When you said he wasnt.

On June 21 2013 15:07 Oatsmaster wrote:

Any other reasons... at all?
coag makes me laugh, hes town

On June 21 2013 15:07 Oatsmaster wrote:

coag makes me laugh, hes town

On June 23 2013 13:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
So when Oats flips scum, will this count as the first scum I've ever caught?

On June 23 2013 13:55 Oatsmaster wrote:
You take this game too seriously hapa.

Now does this feel like I swear or not.
hmmm..

Also when marv flips scum, I CAUGHT HIM.

On June 23 2013 13:56 Oatsmaster wrote:

This means?

On June 23 2013 13:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
No hapa, you said 'if you're not gonna take this'
this meaning the game?
Or this meaning pressure? Or this meaning what?

On June 23 2013 14:00 Oatsmaster wrote:
Can you ask me some specific questions?

On June 23 2013 14:02 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hapa, the reason you think Im scum is because I cant explain why I think you are scum, Associative to DP and meta. Right?

On June 23 2013 14:01 Adam4167 wrote:
No. There's being unintentionally bad, where I will try to figure you out (go see duel mafia and my read on sylencia), and then being intentionally bad, such as Kush in smurf. You don't want to put the effort into playing properly, then i don't want you around with the idea lingering in the back of my head that you could be scum playing us for fools.

On June 23 2013 14:10 Oatsmaster wrote:

so you are pissed at me cause you are bad and dont know how to read the 6 pages of filter day 1 where everyone thought I was town.

Huh.

Hapa, im not sure. which is why i didnt POST ANYTHING.

On June 23 2013 11:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
hapa is bad or scum.
probably scum.

Whoop.

Why?

1. Consolidation is a good thing.
2. Meta needs to be compared with my scum games too.
3. Early d1 and late d1 reads change. I did say that I thought DP was town. Also I was asking marv how he thought yamato was town and I pointed out the scummy stuff... CONTEXT BOY.

On June 23 2013 14:15 Adam4167 wrote:


I am reasonably caught up.

Right now I want to see more out of GoodKarma, ShioaPi and Raynpelikoneet. Oats would be on this list as well if he weren't playing like a dick.

As for Hapa, it doesn't sit well with me how he seems to still be of such a conviction that I'm scum, when scumteam would have every motivation to push my mislynch over losing DP on day 1. It also doesn't sit well with me how he's spent much of his focus on those that weren't on my wagon, when those specifically on my wagon is really something that deserves a lot of attention.

On June 23 2013 14:52 cDgCorazon wrote:


Have you ever stopped to consider that it's really easy for scum Oats to complain and bitch like a townie when the pressure has been on him? There's no way to can say that him acting like that can erase the fact that his filter is all talk and no real scumhunting.

On June 23 2013 14:57 cDgCorazon wrote:

I would agree with you if Oats' posts were on the same level of depth as yours. However, you were being very calm and giving reasons for your suspicions and he would just respond with one-liners and saying that you are wrong because he is town. The parity of the "intelligence" of the conversation was heavily swung in your favor. I think it's more non-alignment indicative because both frustrated scum and town can act like that.

On June 23 2013 20:20 Ange777 wrote:
...


I am not sure what exactly you are refering to in your question.

Again, taking a generous view of DP, and another shoddy reason for it. Earlier he said he doesn't like assuming it's a mafia ability. Yet he cites the secret vote as a reason to lynch into the lurkers.

On June 24 2013 01:41 slOosh wrote:
Eh I gtg for now, but I want to again draw attention to pg 57~60, with regards to the Hapa / rayn interaction. I think Hapa did not engage the discussion honestly but misrepresented rayn's case on him. I'll be back later with more fleshed out description but I hope you guys can start it without me.

Particularly people like goodkarma, ShiaoPi, cora and Adam, this new stuff a good place to make contributions.

On June 24 2013 01:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have a terrible hangover so i am not going to try to have more of a headache today by rereading.

I am still suspicious of Hapa. I don't think anyone who voted for DP is scum unless GK is scum too, but i find it kinda hard to believe there would be only 2 scum wagons at the end of the day. That does not just sit well with me, especially considering my scumreads are not lurkers. I still think Oats is town for what i have said and i don't like how Hapa was (and apparently is?) unable to understand my read on him. I have no idea why he thought Oats was mafia last night.
...

On June 23 2013 20:34 Ange777 wrote:
To be honest I really don't see scum ShiaoPi right now. Yes, his inactivity is troubling but in I Swear he showed that he can actually play scum differently. Reverting back to his absolutely lurking scum meta from the past just simply does not make any sense for me.

Finally there's his last set of reads, which clearly make no sense from a town perspective. I simply can't visualize a townie making the Ange read in particular, given her contributions to getting scum lynched on DAY 1. All in all, this is a guy with a lot of activity who hasn't had a whole lot of stances on who's scum. He's content to suspect lurkers and be pretty wishy-washy on everyone else. Ange in particular he's gone from "possibly Ange" to "probably not Ange let's not consider lynching her even though I think she's scummy" in very short order when pressured about it. Like what kind of townie does that??? The Oats read I could possibly see a townie making, but everything else just doesn't make sense at all to me from a town perspective.

Perhaps Ange, as it would be really easy for scum to cast doubt on me and push for my lynch D2. That got me really suspicious.

I'm not say Ange is 100% scum and that we should try to lynch her. I'm not even saying Ange looks very scummy and we should thing about lynching her. I'm just saying that it makes me a bit suspicious.

On June 24 2013 05:01 ShiaoPi wrote:
hai guys
just got home from partying 2 nights in a row. what did i miss? ~.~
also any questions while I try to catch up before I fall dead into my bed??
just saying that i am still around but probablu wont be able to post sth more cohernt until like tmr noon when I wake up again. so just ask me stuff you need to onow like right now, wikl do more tmr in a better mental state

On June 24 2013 05:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hapa, let's talk about something else than D1 for a change. You said a lot about solving this game revolves around flipping GK, and if he flipped town you would then look into ShiaoPi and Adam. I can get the ShiaoPi part, but why Adam? And do you actually think GK is mafia or what were you trying to say there? That we should lynch him to have more information on ShiaoPi/Adam? That doesn't really sound like a reason to lynch someone.

On June 24 2013 05:11 Hapahauli wrote:


I was more throwing names out there, and not necessarily concrete examples.

For example if GK is mafia, there's an overwhelming chance that the mafia was fairly lurky and passive. Thus the candidates to look into would be very passive players who hadn't had much influence in the game. So Shiao/Adam fit that bill somewhat, though it's not a complete list by any means - after all, why speculate about specifics until I actually know more about GK?

Ermmmm sorry I butchered that a bit and forgot my argument a bit.

If GK is town, mafia would probably be a passive influence on the GK wagon (players like Adam, Shaio, and maybe marv).

If GK is mafia, players on the GK wagon look much better, and it's worth to look into players either avoiding both wagons all together OR those that were extremely passive (also now that I think about it, would probably include Adam and Shaio as well).

---

Regarding Adam and Shaio specificly, I do have reasons to doubt they're mafia. Adam has come across as fairly genuine so far (even with his limited posting). Generally when he's posting as mafia, he just comes across as sounding terrible, illogical, and desperate. I don't get that feeling this game.

As for Shiao, I posted my thoughts (directed at GK) just above. Given his mafia performance last game, it doesn't make very much sense for him to slink back into this lurky/wishy-washy game if he rolled mafia again. His wishy-washyness is a null-tell at best I think, and perhaps even a town tell.

On June 24 2013 05:16 cDgCorazon wrote:


Perhaps I used the wrong wording in how suspicious of Ange I was. Her sub-par D1 play was only revived by the fact that she voted for DP at just the right time. Then she goes on about how I look bad for voting DP which is so ridiculously obvious. I'm still feeling on edge after the DP vote because I thought I was going to be a prime lynch candidate because of it. I considered (and still do, but to a lesser degree) myself to be lynch bait and when she mentioned my name I saw her possibly as scum jumping on the lynchbait. She shouldn't be hailed as an angel just because she voted for DP. Everyone still has to do their part in the town.

On June 24 2013 05:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I wanted to ask you that because you brought that up yourself and i do not think it's anything concrete as you just said - GK is alive.

Do you think it's more probable that there were two scum wagons at the end of the day 1 than only one?
Also if GK is in fact mafia, do you think ShiaoPi could be mafia. Like, thay did nothing than attack each other on D1?

On June 24 2013 05:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hapa, i agree with you on ShiaoPi, i don't think he's scum. I disagree with Adam though.

Also do you still think Cora is town?

On June 23 2013 07:11 cDgCorazon wrote:
I really feel like DP lynch would be really terrible so I would go for any other option besides DP.

GK is in that list of people who have played subpar and I would be up for his lynch. Right now there is a clusterfuck of people who have played like this. Might as well get rid of one of them now (as Hapa said).

##Unvote
##Vote: Goodkarma

On June 24 2013 06:42 goodkarma wrote:


I already discussed the Cora portion with Cora. As far as Shao goes, yes he played as scum last game in a way substantially different from this one. Specifically, he was more active. But the games before that he apparently played differently enough from that that you couldn't spot him as scum. Why do you think he couldn't have changed his scumplay yet again here? I have trouble understanding how as town Shao would be this trollish and unproductive. And on top of all the scummy things he's done, his vote on me and afk is behavior that could be clearly scum-motivated.
...

But the games before that he apparently played differently enough from that that you couldn't spot him as scum. Why do you think he couldn't have changed his scumplay yet again here?

I have trouble understanding how as town Shao would be this trollish and unproductive.

And on top of all the scummy things he's done, his vote on me and afk is behavior that could be clearly scum-motivated.

On June 24 2013 06:45 yamato77 wrote:

Welcome to every game ever with Oats.

Anyway, work again. I'll see you guys in a while.

On June 24 2013 06:52 goodkarma wrote:


If you're referring to his lurker lynch post he made not too long ago I referenced, it doesn't sit well with me that half those people were on the DP wagon, and he doesn't even make any kind of note of it. He doesn't work to differentiate between them at all, and just makes some kind of blanket statement that he's okay with lynching into them. And that is scummy.

On June 24 2013 06:53 marvellosity wrote:


Frankly I find the contention that a player who's lurked in many scumgames and been active in one, we should assume he's going to be active in this one too, on top of what I said about playing more than one scumgame in a row. In fact you yourself should know how horrible it is to play consecutive scumgames.

The argument seems to be that a mafia player would make a special effort to be active and involved, whereas a townplayer would not make this effort.

When has it ever been this way round, ever?

On June 24 2013 07:08 cDgCorazon wrote:
Well it's really obvious to me now that GK is scum because he is both attacking a lynchbait and attacking him with really bad arguments where only one point is actually valid.

If I have to be lynched for you all to see that, so be it.

On June 24 2013 00:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
You.

Perhaps Ange, as it would be really easy for scum to cast doubt on me and push for my lynch D2. That got me really suspicious.

The third one is probably in one of the lurkers and semi-lurkers (GK/ShiaoPi/Coag/OO/SloOsh and others I'm probably forgetting).

On June 24 2013 07:09 goodkarma wrote:



1) (Shao made his scumplay "worse;" I would just say if scum here he made is scumgame different): If indeed he's played like this as town, then fitting into his town meta wouldn't exactly be subpar as scum would it?