Catch 22 Mafia - Page 6

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 22 2013 23:13 GMT

#1050

On June 23 2013 08:12 cDgCorazon wrote:
This is why I never talk about my town reads.

Anyways, I'm not entirely sure if I should claim seeing as I'm getting lynched tomorrow.

Not necessarily. Be prepared for some questioning tomorrow, but I personally still want to see GK flip.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 22 2013 23:18 GMT

#1062

No one's lynching marv until we find out what GK is. All this talk about "some people wasting their votes" is stupid until we know the alignment of the 2nd scummiest player in the thread

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 22 2013 23:58 GMT

#1090

Coag, at a certain point, if you want to call marv scum, do so sanely and constructively. Because the whole
foaming at the mouth "marv is scum trolololololol" doesn't really cut it for me, nor for the rest of the people here.

I also still don't understand the giant gap in analysis that you have regarding the DP vote - your analysis and thought process is literally only valid if GK isn't mafia.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 02:22 GMT

#1100

Well I think it's safe to say that whatever GK's alignment is, there's a very low chance that there is scum on the DP wagon. It makes very little sense to bus an asset to your team, much less when that asset is the godfather.

What this does tell me is that the scum-team is probably passive and/or bad at pushing their agenda. The DP wagon was allowed to form at the last minute with very little interference, and that should inform us about our scum-suspects moving forward.

So regarding non-DP voters (not including myself):
Corazon - I really don't see the scum in his filter. Hard-defending a scum-buddy (especially when DP was on track to be lynched) would be a very brave thing to pull off.

Marv - If marv was scum, I don't know how we would have ended up lynching DP. Marv is a fairly pro-active scum player and great at pushing his agenda. Furthermore, his interactions and thoughts seemed fairly genuine. There's nothing illogical or scummy about how his end-of-the-day voting actions or suspicions. He seemed pretty interested in figuring out the game.

Reyn - Behaviorally, he's very aggressive. I had assumed this was townie up until now, and I still think it is. I'll read through him one more time just to be sure.

Adam - Is null.

Shiao - Ditto.

GoodKarma - I still believe he's scum for all the reasons I've discussed before. He voted Shiao and never pushed his case. He just kinda fucked off, which is fairly normal for a scum GK.

Oats - When I read over Oats filter, it reads very similarly to DP's filter. He's active, spammy, but isn't really pushing his suspicions. In the last game I played with him (I Swear Mini), he would lock on and tunnel people to death, constantly screaming bloody murder about his targets being scum. He did it to GK, BH, and Myself, all really early in the game. He's relentless and completely uncompromising about his suspicions.

So we have a good idea that Yamato is town this game, and Oats has thought he was suspicious most (if not all) of the game. However reading his filter (especially the latter parts of his push on page 5-6 of his filter), his play doesn't have the same abrasiveness "FUCK YOU U SCUM BISSHHHHH" attitude that I'd expect of Oats.

Furthermore, I think this is a scumclaim from him:

On June 23 2013 02:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
##unvote
##vote:oo
CONSOLIDATION

Consider Oats - the most uncompromising, unreasonable, relentless player, who has gone after Yamato all game, all of a sudden dropping all of his yamato suspicions and considers voting ObviousOne. While Oats ends up re-voting yamato a couple of posts later, the fact that he's even considering a lynch option on another player is very strange. Much less when you consider the things Oats has actually said about OO:

On June 23 2013 01:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
why are you not posting about who is scum OO

On June 23 2013 01:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
cause he doesnt want to derail lynch train on OO which you guys successfully did. Well done.
Notice OO is gone.

In Oat's entire filter, that's all he posted that could even be constructed of suspicion about OO. The fact that he could even consider unvoting Yamato on this evidence makes me think that Oats is scum.

As a second point, I believe there's an association case to be made about DP/Oats. Both interact with each other a lot, and at times imply suspicion on each other, but never really say anything definitive about each others' alignments.

One exchange that stuck out to me was this:

On June 23 2013 01:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
marv is scum

Why the fuck are you lynching DP.
why.
Its so fucking easy to comment on the hapa case.

On June 23 2013 01:28 Oatsmaster wrote:
So yamato thinks DP is scum because his interest has waned. Interesting.

On June 23 2013 01:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
well basically my point about asking yamato is because he doesnt have enough content in his filter about DP to replace a case. Just general impression "NOT INTERESTED IN THE GAME". Which is highly subjective. Also he never asks DP anything. Notice that Yamato only votes for DP after he is under some pressure.

On June 23 2013 01:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
so how in the world do you think yamato is town when he is blatantly wrong about the interested thing? And yamato isnt bad at the game.

I dont get how in the world you think yamato is town man. I dont. He has twice now made a case or something on someone and within a page, unvoted them off like 1 post. He stopped talking about DP now that we arent gonna lynch him. He is utterly useless. This guy is SCUM

On June 23 2013 02:06 Oatsmaster wrote:
I kinda think hes scum for thinking yamato is town.
Also random vote on DP for no reason.

But its marv.

I dont know.

He's clearly defending DP here and completely chainsaw's Yamato for attacking DP.

However, Oats NEVER mentions that he thinks DP is town throughout his ENTIRE filter!!!!!!! He repeatedly calls the cases against DP bad and uses them as a platform to attack Yamato (who is very likely town).

Hell Oats has expressed suspicion of DP in his filter several times in the early game, which this exchange so strange.

There are little things in DP's filter as well that go the opposite way. Where he's repeatedly suspicious of Oats but fails to ever give a clear, coherent answer about it.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 02:49 GMT

#1105

A little more on association between Oats/DP:

Oats is repeatedly poking and suspicious of DP, especially in the early-game:
+ Show Spoiler +

On June 21 2013 14:02 Oatsmaster wrote:
#unvote
Dont hipster vote cora.

DP and hapa are scum.

On June 21 2013 15:02 Oatsmaster wrote:
well Hapa says im a policy lynch then like a few minutes later says hes not gonna vote for an obv townie when its clear that Im not gonna get lynched today.
I dont get his attitude this game, its like really angry and stuff and not happy hapa.

DP currently has no scum reads after unvoting yamato. I dont see why he dropped that push. Nothing makes me think that yamato is bad rather than scum.

On June 21 2013 15:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
Cora is town.
Yamato is scum.

DP and Hapa might be scum.

Then at some point, he starts being the grand defender of DP by shutting down any and all suspicion on him... all while NEVER calling DP town at any point in the game!
+ Show Spoiler +

On June 21 2013 18:44 Oatsmaster wrote:

Show nested quote +

you know, he didnt really say everyone was town, he said that DP and coag didnt look like town.
Dont you think his reasons for calling DP scum bullshit?

On June 22 2013 01:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
Let me explain.
Yamato just started posting bullshit when I switched on to him, and the amount of agression and attack hapa and DP showed forced me rethink my reads.

On June 23 2013 01:08 Oatsmaster wrote:
ok misread that. whoops.
Anyway. Case on DP. Now.

On June 23 2013 01:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
marv is scum

Why the fuck are you lynching DP.
why.
Its so fucking easy to comment on the hapa case.

On June 23 2013 01:28 Oatsmaster wrote:
So yamato thinks DP is scum because his interest has waned. Interesting.

On June 23 2013 01:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
Is DP interested Marv?

On June 23 2013 02:06 Oatsmaster wrote:
I kinda think hes scum for thinking yamato is town.
Also random vote on DP for no reason.

But its marv.

I dont know.

This also occurs in DP's filter. He expresses moderate suspicion of Oats early on:

On June 21 2013 14:33 DarthPunk wrote:

Show nested quote +

I said you were scummy. not scum. You are always scummy though. so you're still null for me.

The point Was that it is difficult to see through blatantly scummy shit like retarded tunnells and shitting up the thread enough to make a town read straight up. Especially when your town game is similar to your scum game in a lot of ways. Like I know you always play scummy. But would you expect obvious to know that and to give you a town read in the context of the thread? I wouldn't. and that is what is off about the whole thing.

...and then poof! That's it! No more!

He starts interacting with Oats from time to time, but never mentions anything resembling a read on Oats, or even an opinion. There's even this gem that ObviousOne pointed out earlier:

On June 21 2013 14:26 DarthPunk wrote:

Show nested quote +

Obviously, or why would I say it? I didn't like how he just came into the thread with a town read on fucking scummy oates with all this reasoning. Seemed contrived to me. Like his first post is this big thought out town read on the guy shitting up the thread.

That kush thing pissed me off too.

Offers some random non-read on Oats that somewhat implies suspicion but in reality says nothing.

For the amount that Oats and DP interact in the thread, there's markedly little of substance. Thay have these random casual conversations, never give opinions on one another, and trust each other way too much given the suspicion they imply on each other.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 02:50 GMT

#1106

On June 23 2013 10:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
rofl. G am dsunk amwd thais was goodm. If viagi shoot coag plz.

On June 23 2013 11:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats is town and whatever you say Hapa is not gonna change that.
You are scum.

I see you sobered up real quick rayn. Care to tell me why're you're faking your drunkenness?

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 02:54 GMT

#1111

On June 23 2013 11:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
FU. I just got home from midsummer party. You din't even vote for DP.

As for not voting DP... so what? Neither did you. And that goes for everyone but five people in the thread.

Now be a good boy and
a) Tell me what's with this fake-drunkenness stunt you're pulling and
b) Why is my case on Oats bad?

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 02:55 GMT

#1112

On June 23 2013 11:54 Oatsmaster wrote:
Thoughts on Marv Hapa?

Marv - If marv was scum, I don't know how we would have ended up lynching DP. Marv is a fairly pro-active scum player and great at pushing his agenda. Furthermore, his interactions and thoughts seemed fairly genuine. There's nothing illogical or scummy about how his end-of-the-day voting actions or suspicions. He seemed pretty interested in figuring out the game.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 02:57 GMT

#1115

On June 23 2013 11:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
Also you never changed a read slowly because you just kept posting with this person and he agrees with you and whatnot? Considering hes in the same Timezone as me.

You're usually really, really good about voiding your opinions on reads. You've explicitly called several people town this game, and I have a really hard time believing that you failed to do it with DarthPunk.

You had plenty of instances to do it. Look how many times you offhandedly dismissed Yamato's suspicions, all without ever saying that you thought DP was town? Really?

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 03:00 GMT

#1118

On June 23 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why wouldnt I do it with DP when my attitude is CLEARLY that he is town? Do you think it makes more sense as scum or town to 'forget' to call DP town?

Much more from a scum perspective (hence the case).

I've never seen you shy about voicing your opinions on someone's alignment ever before.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 03:04 GMT

#1121

Honestly Oats, I making an association case, which is near impossible for you to defend directly. Because I'm essentially setting out expectations for your town play, and you're not really going to change them unless you prove that you're town in other ways.

I'm more interested in hearing who you think is scum given the lynch actions.

If I do have any more specific things I'd like you to defend, I'll let you know.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 03:15 GMT

#1126

On June 23 2013 12:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hapa, can you answer my questions in my case against you?

I can, but you don't seem like the type who's willing to listen.

Well firstly...

On June 23 2013 01:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##Unvote:
##Vote: Hapahauli

I don't like the fact that he has disappeared since i laid out my case. Unless he has something reasonable to say i'll be voting for him and you all should do that aswell.

You posted your case and voted me when I was asleep, so there's not much more to say about this. Now as for the case...

He is not wanting to be a town leader here.

I don't always lead town early on. Examples include both Hydra Mini I and II.

You played in Hydra Mini II and tried to mislynch me for it when you were scum. Why are you forgetting about this?

He is asking random questions from random people. He had Goodkarma as his top scum read, then suddenly went on voting for Sloosh and after that dropped the "GK is my top scumread"...

Exactly at what point did I ever drop my suspicions of GK? I didn't.

...did not answer me about that when asked, masked it with a question about yamato for me and went on with "something is off with rayn and DP", didn't explain that any more and said he would be writing stuff about me later. Does this sound like a townie behaviour?

It was the last post I made before I went to sleep at 5 am in the morning. When I woke up (which coincided with you falling asleep), you had posted enough to convince me you were town. So I didn't feel the need to post anything more.

This is probably because yamato is mafia too, and with no real direction in the game right now, he might get lynched. If mafia does not do something soon, one of their own will get lynched so they are trying to pursue more and more targets to hide in the shadows.

This doesn't make sense, because yamato is most likely town given voting actions. So why exactly do I need to defend this?

Now Hapa, am i bullshitting in what i said here and if i am not, why do you think i am scum? You have seen me play scum in a game that i was actually able to play to the fullest. Why do you actually think yamato is town? You basically ask him questions and whatever he answers you reply with "okay, that's fair enough". You are taking him at face value at the earliest possible moment, and that's really REALLY fishy. Yamato never explained his reasoning behind his town-reads actually being null yet you have never talked about that again. You labeled GK as your top scum read and after that you place a vote on Sloosh and after one post from him you take the vote back and hop on entirely different things. It does not make sense from town PoV.

Like honestly, half your case is entirely associative with Yamato.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 03:17 GMT

#1127

On June 23 2013 12:07 Oatsmaster wrote:
Lol why you give up?
BECAUSE YOU ARE SCUM.

Anyway yeah Scum is Hapa and Marv currently.

If marv and I were on a scum-team with DP, this town would have been all sorts of fucked yesterday.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 03:18 GMT

#1128

Like Rayn. Your case is based on
a) Yamato being scum
b) Me sleeping.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 03:22 GMT

#1131

On June 23 2013 12:20 Oatsmaster wrote:

Show nested quote +

wifom
also I thought you said you werent good at scum

Are you going to substantiate your reads or not?

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 03:24 GMT

#1134

On June 23 2013 12:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yes, i do believe yamato is town for his actions now, as we have a fucking mafia flip.

I however did not know that when i wrote the case, so please... do not associate the case on yamato at any point because:
1) it's not
2) it's not

I'm not accusing of you of thinking that now. I'm saying that a major portion of your old case on me is about Yamato. Take that out, and there's very little else of substance.

So what is it exactly that you find me scummy for then?

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 03:25 GMT

#1137

On June 23 2013 12:24 Oatsmaster wrote:

Show nested quote +

You didnt vote for scum. You scum.

and no im not gonna substantiate my reads at this point of time.

There are 8 players alive in this game who didn't vote for DP.

Secondly, why are you assuming that GK is town?

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 03:27 GMT

#1140

On June 23 2013 12:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Show nested quote +

You are not trying to solve tha game, you are trying to lynch whoever you can and that's bad.
Basically that.

Okay, and what specifically about my game points to that?

You can make statements about my play, cool, but I can't exactly defend myself if you provide no rationale for it.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

June 23 2013 03:32 GMT

#1145

On June 23 2013 12:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
cause i feel like his play in this game is way different from his play in ISWEAR. There he just occasionally posted null reads and stuff and never really interacted with the thread. Here, he pushed me, push shiao pi. So when marv has bad reasoning for both GK and Yamato, its really not great. Doesnt mean right = good reasoning for yamato.

BULLSHIT!

This was the last thing you posted on GK.

On June 22 2013 01:24 Oatsmaster wrote:

Show nested quote +

Its not surprising that you cant see the exact same thing that you did to me. poo.

yamato isnt in the thread, i think GK might be scum, I wanna lynch yamato today.

Most notably, GK posted ONE time after you made this post, and that was his post AFTER the lynch.