EPTWell that made me feel a bit better.
##Unvote
Get back to me on GK when you can.
Catch 22 Mafia - Page 3
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Well that made me feel a bit better. ##Unvote Get back to me on GK when you can. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Two things: 1) I keep going back to this pare of quotes by you and getting bad vibes about them: On June 21 2013 14:36 yamato77 wrote: It's a process of elimination, obviously. I'm not worried about the other people who have posted. I am still perplexed about DP and Coag's alignment. I don't think there's that much to argue about, really. Both of you seem to be admitting to the fact that nothing he has done is alignment indicative. On June 21 2013 14:41 yamato77 wrote: I have weak town reads on most of the other players in the game, for varying reasons. At the very least, I can ignore them until later in the game when their alignment should be clearer. Why DP isn't one of those town reads is cause for concern, yes. He's been perfectly readable in the past. This mentality of "I have a bunch of weak-townreads that I'm just not concerned with" doesn't seem very townie. You seem overly trusting of the situation and lack the natural paranoia that I'm accustomed to seeing in your town-game. The bolded passage (in the second quote) I find most disconcerting, because weak town reads aren't an excuse not to look at someone early on Day 1. Much less when that list at the time included ObviousOne, sloOsh, and Sylencia (all of whom had 1-4 unsubstantial posts at the time). 2) The way you backed off Shaio doesn't make much sense to me either. You're a player known for very strong-tunnels, and often very willingly confront the opinions of veteran players to push your own thoughts and scum-reads. In the case of Shiao, you backing down from your vote with so little resistance isn't what I associate with your town-meta. Futhermore, your unvote post... On June 22 2013 04:03 yamato77 wrote: So if it isn't alignment indicative, as the both of you claim, I suppose there's nothing else about his posting that raises any alarms. ##unvote Notably, he is on my watch list still. ...makes no sense. Shiao's "post architecture" wasn't the only reason you were suspicious of him. By contrast, your suspicions on him started because of another of his posts: On June 21 2013 14:45 yamato77 wrote: This is the kind of thing I expect out of a scum Shiao. There very clearly was other posting you were "suspicious" of, and it seems like you forgot about the original reasons you were suspicious of Shiao. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On June 22 2013 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote: vote for him hapa. voteee I vote when I'm either extremely bored or reasonably convinced of someone's guilt. Neither condition is satisfied right now. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Well I think you're misunderstanding (purposefully or not) my motives here. If I thought you were scum, I would vote you. Hell if I was scum, I'd vote tunnel the shit out of you. I've done it before, and I'd have no qualms about doing it again. I've had success as town not because I'm "committal", but because I'm anything but. I'm willing to be cautious, think things through, and take things slow. I have a lot of hesitancy about lynching a player like you, because you are a player (if you're town and left alive to the end) can put things together. I'm not lynching you unless I'm sure you're scum. So answer my questions. I don't think they're baseless, nor do I think you answered them in your filter. 1) Why were you so willing to back down from your read on Shiao? It is extremely uncharacteristic of your early-game to do so. 2) On June 22 2013 04:03 yamato77 wrote: So if it isn't alignment indicative, as the both of you claim, I suppose there's nothing else about his posting that raises any alarms. ##unvote Notably, he is on my watch list still. The bolded passage is strictly wrong. There clearly are other parts of Shiao's posting and game you were suspicious of. Yet you seemed to have forgotten completely about them the second marv and I confronted you about your second wave of suspicions on him. 3) Regarding your "lack of suspicion" (willing to wait on SloOsh, OO, and Sylencia), I'll admit you did respond to that, and I let it pass earlier, but it doesn't sit well with me. Particularly your town-read on OO. I have no idea how OO's play so far can warrant a town-read from you. Not only is there a small sample size, but you call his posting "brave" when it's very clearly not. Your explanation doesn't cut it: Why would scum OO call Oats town at that moment? Unless he's just posting to post, I don't see it. that may be the case, but I feel that it's more likely that he's town from that post than scum. This doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't "scum OO" call Oats town here? There's nothing brave about lightly calling someone town and supporting a policy lynch on them anyway. Scum do that all the time in varying degrees. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Also, Perhaps my phrasing has been poor this game, but being clear with how I feel about a particular player's posting when things are not as black and white as I'd like them to be is difficult. I think it's fairly obvious that I'm not particularly confident in any read. So is this a pressure vote on me or are you reasonably confident I'm mafia? On June 22 2013 17:13 yamato77 wrote: My problem with you is that you seem afraid to call me mafia, like you're scared that I'll insta-tunnel you for it and get you lynched. This doesn't feel like the organic line of questioning I usually receive from town Hapa at all. Question: when have I ever been afraid to call someone mafia when I'm mafia? >> | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On June 22 2013 17:31 yamato77 wrote: Do you think DP seems particularly interested in this game? I don't. I agree with that, and this was the answer I was looking for. DP has posted alot, but really hasn't shown the engagement/emotion I'd expect from him. He seems comfortable, which is a really weird feeling. Both him and Rayn actually. Rayn's play just feels off. He's literally suspicious of every person in this game. And not in a "paranoid, spazzy townie" way. It feels very controlled and deliberate, which is just strange and scummy. I'll write something up when it's not 5am >> You being timid in a game is how you seem as mafia. I don't like that you seem sheepish with your timing of questioning me right after Oats and DP state their suspicion of me. Oats, DP, and Rayn have all been suspicious of you during pretty much all points of the game. It's not like there was ever a point in the game where I wouldn't "sheep" to some degree. As for the timing... well it is what it is. And honestly yes you're right in that I'm being a bit more passive than usual. It's part a conscious effort on my end to post-less and re-read more, and part just a general burn-out I've been feeling in the last few games I've played. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Shiao and GK appear to be playing a side-game with one another - both think each other is scum, yet are doing very little to push their opinions. This is pretty normal for them though, as town-Shiao is known for early-game lurk, and GK is on record saying he doesn't read his role PM on Day 1. I don't like their play, but neither is a good lynch for today. I don't think DP is a good lynch for today. There are aspects of his play I don't like, however I feel that the reasons people have been suspicious of him for (myself included) are fairly inexact and within the realm of town-DP. He is a very null read for me, but that doesn't justify lynching him right now. One of the main arguments seems to be that there's a lack of engagement on his part than their normal town persona, but that could be said about half the players in this game right now (and obv not all of them can be scum). I like ObviousOne's play in the last few pages. It's not aesthetically pleasing, but it seems genuine and town-motivated. Sylencia/Adam also get the replacement-pass for today. The good lynches for today are the lurkers, namely sloOsh/Ange. Neither has done very much, and neither has shown any engagement in the thread. I'd be pretty happy killing sloOsh right now on the basis that his contributions (while I approved at the time) were fairly meager/non-committal, and that he fucked off from his promised activity. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On June 23 2013 04:12 yamato77 wrote: Hapa, what do you make of DP and the vote shenanigans? I analysed it on the last page. It requires far too many assumptions. Firstly, it's a secret vote, so the pool of candidates isn't necessarily comprised of only the people suspicious of you in the thread. Secondly, I don't like assuming that it's a mafia ability. At the very least, I'm not making my decision based on that assumption. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On June 23 2013 04:20 yamato77 wrote: 1) It doesn't makes sense at all from a town perspective. Who knows. Hosts design "red herring" roles all the time. I understand thinking that a secret vote could be scummy, but basing a lynch decision on it is a whole different game. Secondly consider this argument - if you are town, and someone on your wagon is scum, why would scum place a secret vote on you? It creates all sorts of alarm-bells amongst the town and questions about the lynch. 2) I don't suspect anyone else but shiao/ange/adam and they are all afk lurkers. There's no one who is both active enough to place that vote to try to get me lynched and also someone that would have any interest in lynching me. ...which is why we need to lynch an afk lurker. There are too many liabilities right now. For example, you seem not to want to lynch sloOsh because he's "more readable down the road." Well DP is readable down the road too, AND he's more active of a presence. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On June 23 2013 04:25 yamato77 wrote: For example, it obviously not you or Marv. I doubt that Sloosh, GK, OO, or Coag made the vote. That leaves shiao/ange/adam as all afk lurkers who wouldn't have had the timing to made the vote. Oats, Rayn, and Cora have no reason to hide their suspicion of me. Who is it, then? DP is the only one that makes any sense. And it's obviously not a town vote. Again, I'm not making a lynch decision based on the assumption that the Secret Vote is a scum role. Could be 3rd party, and hell I do think it could be some town "double-voter" role. But behaviorally, what makes DP scum? I don't want to coin-flip a lynch on an active player, and there are better targets for such lynches. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On June 23 2013 04:29 yamato77 wrote: That's just it, OO and Cora are probably town. The secret vote was placed on me to get me lynched, and it's actually working. Who has a vested interest in actually getting me lynched? DP. It's obviously his vote, and he's obviously not town. A townie would claim the fucking vote even if they did have it, because they have no reason to hide their intent to lynch. That's actually true. No townie has claimed the vote, and someone should have claimed it by now if it was a town vote. However, why are you precluding the possibility of someone off of your wagon (and not pushing your lynch) from placing said secret vote? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On June 23 2013 04:38 cDgCorazon wrote: Hey guys, I'm back. I'm really glad to see we steered off the DP lynch train because that was literally the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Yamato, the fact that you're not trying to defend yourself and instead are trying to WIFOM your way out of lynch shows that you're just grasping at straws here. DP might possibly be scum. Yamato is not scum. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On June 23 2013 04:43 cDgCorazon wrote: You're running under the assumption that the vote is from an anti-town faction. That's not very good logic. The problem is that now that you're on the chopping block, you're finally sticking to a singular read instead of flip-flopping. It's too late man. Too late. I can't tell whether that move is out of desperation or you actually think DP is scum. I don't agree with that, so I'm more inclined towards leaning that your attempt you get DP lynched is born out of desperation and not born out of scumhunting. What the fuck is too late about Yamato's actions right now? And if this was desperation, isn't ObviousOne, or even a lurker so much of a better target? Cora, absolutely none of this makes sense. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Get your asses in here and help us consolidate. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On June 23 2013 04:54 cDgCorazon wrote: Ok, can someone run me through OO's "scum claim"? I'm really confused about it. It's not a scum-claim. I have virtually no clue about how it could be considered one. There's an argument to be made that OO should be lynched for lack-of-content/lurking, though his behavior in the last few hours seems genuine. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On June 23 2013 04:57 cDgCorazon wrote: The problem is there's like 3/4 people who can be accused of the same thing. That's why I'm leaning away from an OO lynch today. I don't want to lynch OO either. I'm between sloOsh, Ange, and maybe DP right now. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
You apparently have behavioral reasons to think DP is scum. Explain them to me. | ||
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