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@ GK
On June 21 2013 15:18 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 15:05 Hapahauli wrote:On June 21 2013 14:59 goodkarma wrote:
@Hapa:
Why you unvote Oats? Because his play so far has been based on antagonizing every single person in the thread. There's no scum survival instinct in his play. He's playing like a paranoid townie. Which is why I have severe objections to how you interpreted his play so far: On June 21 2013 14:55 goodkarma wrote:
I'd say that right now I'm most suspicious of Oats.
He's called multiple people scum already, including: Cora, Hapa, DP, and has sheeped onto Yamato. But what I've failed to see from him is conviction in his reads. This is something I've seen from Oatsmaster in the past, even this early into the game, and I'm not seeing it here.
Oats, care to explain your current thoughts on DP and Hapa? I have no idea how you associate any of this with scum-behavior. Firstly, "lack of conviction" seems the exact opposite of his play thusfar. Sure he doesn't have great justifications for his reads (which is normal on Day 1), but he seems to have as much "conviction" as possible. Secondly, calling multiple people scum is completely non-alignment indicative, and might even be a town-tell (paranoia, natural suspicion, etc). You are holding "townie conviction" to an immeasurably high standard. If there's anyone that has "conviction" about their reads so far, it's Oats. And hell it's early Day 1 - are you expecting the guy to have one clear scumread already or something? Different people play scum in different ways. You say that the way Oats has played so far would be impossible for scum because there's "no survival instinct." I would strongly disagree with that. Oats so far hasn't really persay tunneled anyone all that hard. Coming from a game where he (as town) literally devoted all his energies to trying to get me lynched, his play this game is dramatically different. Sure, it's early and he could maybe not have that guy he's feeling really strongly is scum, but it is odd that he can so lightly jump on and off of people the way he has. Especially what he did with Yamato felt a bit off to me, more or less completely sheeping thread sentiment while entirely abandoning any focus on his prior scumreads. I really haven't seen this "lack of survival instinct" you seem to have. This is a guy that as town waves his arms in the air and begs to get mislynched or vigshot for how scummy he looks. Here, I'd say he's not really acting like that.
He's already tunnelled a couple of people and is the most active person in this thread. I have no idea how you can interpret his play about having a lack of conviction.
In regards to him tunneling the hell out of you in "I Swear" Mini, you should know full well that he tunneled you on Day 2 of the game. How is that all relevant towards his play in the first few hours in the game, in which it is near impossible to have anything with which to mega-tunnel someone.
Can you point to me to any of his town-games in which he acts to the degree you attribute his play to within the first few hours of Day 1?
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On June 21 2013 15:44 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 15:39 cDgCorazon wrote:On June 21 2013 13:28 Oatsmaster wrote:
I wanna lynch cora seriously now.
1. He wants to waste his vote
2. He actually feels the need to justify his vote on marv
On June 21 2013 15:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
Cora is town.
On June 21 2013 14:02 Oatsmaster wrote:
DP and hapa are scum.
On June 21 2013 14:15 Oatsmaster wrote:
because you [Hapa] are wrong. and scum. Mostly wrong though. First of all there is the 180 on me because it was obvious no one agreed with you. Then it was the only semi-explained reasoning for DP, Hapa, and Yamato scum. It doesn't equate to much contribution. I see a whole lot of nothing in your filter, and that's not good seeing as it's three pages already. Do you agree or disagree with what hapa said about townies often being paranoid and casting suspicion on many different people for this reason?
This is a bit of an oversimplification for what I'm saying. Both scum and town can cast suspicion on multiple players. What's key is how they do it. In the case of Oats, he was doing it and making every effort to antagonize everyone around him. Combine this with his hyper-activity so far, and I associate this much more with his town play than his scum play. His scum-play is much more diplomatic.
Could he have adjusted? Mebe. I'd need much more than a couple of hours to catch him should that be the case, though I don't consider it likely.
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Anyway, I'm off to bed.
Oats is a strong town-read.
Cora is just under that.
At this point, the only person I'm suspicious of is GK for what I interpret to be a very bad entrance into the thread. He was suspicious of lynch-bait for very suspect rationale.
Essentially null on everyone else. Maybe a tinge suspicious of Shaio because one of his posts ("y u so scummy Yamato") rubbed me the wrong way.
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On June 21 2013 15:54 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 15:26 Hapahauli wrote:@ GKOn June 21 2013 15:18 goodkarma wrote:On June 21 2013 15:05 Hapahauli wrote:On June 21 2013 14:59 goodkarma wrote:
@Hapa:
Why you unvote Oats? Because his play so far has been based on antagonizing every single person in the thread. There's no scum survival instinct in his play. He's playing like a paranoid townie. Which is why I have severe objections to how you interpreted his play so far: On June 21 2013 14:55 goodkarma wrote:
I'd say that right now I'm most suspicious of Oats.
He's called multiple people scum already, including: Cora, Hapa, DP, and has sheeped onto Yamato. But what I've failed to see from him is conviction in his reads. This is something I've seen from Oatsmaster in the past, even this early into the game, and I'm not seeing it here.
Oats, care to explain your current thoughts on DP and Hapa? I have no idea how you associate any of this with scum-behavior. Firstly, "lack of conviction" seems the exact opposite of his play thusfar. Sure he doesn't have great justifications for his reads (which is normal on Day 1), but he seems to have as much "conviction" as possible. Secondly, calling multiple people scum is completely non-alignment indicative, and might even be a town-tell (paranoia, natural suspicion, etc). You are holding "townie conviction" to an immeasurably high standard. If there's anyone that has "conviction" about their reads so far, it's Oats. And hell it's early Day 1 - are you expecting the guy to have one clear scumread already or something? Different people play scum in different ways. You say that the way Oats has played so far would be impossible for scum because there's "no survival instinct." I would strongly disagree with that. Oats so far hasn't really persay tunneled anyone all that hard. Coming from a game where he (as town) literally devoted all his energies to trying to get me lynched, his play this game is dramatically different. Sure, it's early and he could maybe not have that guy he's feeling really strongly is scum, but it is odd that he can so lightly jump on and off of people the way he has. Especially what he did with Yamato felt a bit off to me, more or less completely sheeping thread sentiment while entirely abandoning any focus on his prior scumreads. I really haven't seen this "lack of survival instinct" you seem to have. This is a guy that as town waves his arms in the air and begs to get mislynched or vigshot for how scummy he looks. Here, I'd say he's not really acting like that. He's already tunnelled a couple of people and is the most active person in this thread. I have no idea how you can interpret his play about having a lack of conviction. In regards to him tunneling the hell out of you in "I Swear" Mini, you should know full well that he tunneled you on Day 2 of the game. How is that all relevant towards his play in the first few hours in the game, in which it is near impossible to have anything with which to mega-tunnel someone. Can you point to me to any of his town-games in which he acts to the degree you attribute his play to within the first few hours of Day 1? It was the first few hours I was in the game, so as far as I'm concerned it was day one. And it was based off my first post, so he literally is capable of megatunneling off basically nothing... But that's not really my main issue with him. I'm still having trouble understanding how he can so easily forget about you and DP when jumping onto Yamato.
Well you didn't mention this before. That being said, I still have no idea about how this is scummy, but I'll let Oats answer for himself.
Also have you learned your lesson from Axel and Shao last game? Activity =/= towniness. Oats is always pretty active, so that's not particularly indicative of anything.
Shaio and Axle weren't very active. They were active in the early game, but dropped off later. The most active players in the thread were town, per usual. If there's a lesson to be learned, it's that early-game activity isn't as important as I weighted it to be. That being said, my read on Oats isn't entirely based on activity (though he has 3 pages of filter already) - it's based on his antagonistic attitude.
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On June 21 2013 16:05 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 16:02 Ange777 wrote:
@Cora: What do you make of the fact that despite that quote Hapa now gave Oats a clear town read? Well it's not like I'm going to convince everyone. I feel like Hapa is giving Oats way too much slack for his shoddy play. Hapa's lack of scum reads disturbs me a bit, but he's low on my priority list right now. I'm not gonna call anyone scum for disagreeing with me. I'm just a bit disappointed that Hapa doesn't agree with me =(
Objectively bad play ("shoddy" play) isn't necessary scummy. For example, spurr-of-the-moment, crazy, emotional play is often 100% pure columbian townie. You seem suspicious of Oats for his sudden 180 on you, but I view that as fairly townie. He's not interested in covering his tracks, and despite him thinking you're town, isn't very interested in buddying you or being your friend. I can't detect a coherent scum/survivalist mentality.
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@ Cora
On June 21 2013 16:13 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2013 16:09 Hapahauli wrote:On June 21 2013 16:05 cDgCorazon wrote:On June 21 2013 16:02 Ange777 wrote:
@Cora: What do you make of the fact that despite that quote Hapa now gave Oats a clear town read? Well it's not like I'm going to convince everyone. I feel like Hapa is giving Oats way too much slack for his shoddy play. Hapa's lack of scum reads disturbs me a bit, but he's low on my priority list right now. I'm not gonna call anyone scum for disagreeing with me. I'm just a bit disappointed that Hapa doesn't agree with me =( Objectively bad play ("shoddy" play) isn't necessary scummy. For example, spurr-of-the-moment, crazy, emotional play is often 100% pure columbian townie. You seem suspicious of Oats for his sudden 180 on you, but I view that as fairly townie. He's not interested in covering his tracks, and despite him thinking you're town, isn't very interested in buddying you or being your friend. I can't detect a coherent scum/survivalist mentality. Then what do you make of the fact that he hasn't contributed much to the discussion and has only managed to murk up the thread will really silly sheeping/unexplained arguments and acting like an idiot.
You just described to me Oat's town-meta. I was more fishing for reactions with my policy-lynch talk earlier, but it wasn't entirely baseless when I brought it up.
Fuck me need to sleep.
Anyway Cora, this fight with Oats reads so much like a town-on-town fight. You seem more interested in voting him because he's being a dick rather than scum. It's a natural reaction, but not one that helps the town cause I'm afraid.
@ Ange
Hai
reads pl0x
kthxbai
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'afternoon all
Got some good posting going on, and I'mma gonna catch up shortly. But first...
@ GK
I don't understand the first part of your case against Shaio. You identify two of his posts about his suspicions of you and state that they "contradict", however I can't see at all how that's the case:
On June 21 2013 23:02 ShiaoPi wrote:
gk's case on oats is pretty trash. Gut feeling says scum to me at the moment, maybe because it feels a lot like his posting last game, where we both were scum.
##vote: goodkarma
oh yamato is nullish dude who looks scummy if that clarification was needed
Despite you screaming about how the case is "solely on meta", that's simply not true. The bolded makes clear motive for his vote, and the meta seems very secondary.
The second quote you list is perfectly consistent with this.
This is basic reading GK, and the second case from you I'm reading as forced and logically-flawed.
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Yamato, I look forward to the explanation. Shaio's more recent posting moved him more back to null for me, and I really don't see what's similar about those two quotes you pointed out.
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On June 22 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 03:41 Hapahauli wrote:
Yamato, I look forward to the explanation. Shaio's more recent posting moved him more back to null for me, and I really don't see what's similar about those two quotes you pointed out. 1) He makes a terrible opening post that he tries to brush off as meaningless 2) He goes on to divert attention to someone else ScumShiao
Hah. The architecture is uncannily similar.
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On June 22 2013 03:52 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 03:47 Hapahauli wrote:On June 22 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote:On June 22 2013 03:41 Hapahauli wrote:
Yamato, I look forward to the explanation. Shaio's more recent posting moved him more back to null for me, and I really don't see what's similar about those two quotes you pointed out. 1) He makes a terrible opening post that he tries to brush off as meaningless 2) He goes on to divert attention to someone else ScumShiao Hah. The architecture is uncannily similar. And wouldn't you think that this kind of "architecture" is exactly the kind of tell that gives away scum?
It puts me on higher alert about him, but that's about it. It's definitely not damning on it's own.
The main reason being that your case doesn't preclude the possibility of it being a general, non-alignment indicative posting style.
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Anyway, GK is still my top-scumread.
His first post/entrance on Oats was pretty bad, and his second case on Shiao is based on him clearly not reading Shiao's posts.
@ Rayn
Current thoughts on Yamato?
@ GK
Ditto on Oats?
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On June 22 2013 04:13 yamato77 wrote:
I'm not entirely sold on this GK thing, though. It doesn't seem all that out of the ordinary to be confused by how Oats plays. Aside from that, I believe everything he is writing is from a town perspective.
If it was GK's first time seeing Oats play, I'd understand a bit more. But he saw him in action as town last-game and should expect this wild, random behavior.
Other than that, his cases just read very forced. He's harping on individual points that are incorrect (Shaio's case on GK being all meta) or non-allignment indicative (Oats moving on from his Hapa/DP scum-line) and calling people scum for it.
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Well to continue anyway, ShiaoPi's initial post very plainly states that he's voting GK because of GK's initial "bad-case" on Oats:
On June 21 2013 23:02 ShiaoPi wrote:
gk's case on oats is pretty trash. Gut feeling says scum to me at the moment, maybe because it feels a lot like his posting last game, where we both were scum.
##vote: goodkarma
oh yamato is nullish dude who looks scummy if that clarification was needed
Yet GK completely skips this over and screams "meta-case! meta-case!" and calls ShiaoPi scum for it. I don't buy it, and it reads as forced.
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Yeah I think you're right about that. The line...
Yet… Your case is in fact literally based solely on meta…
... reads as more of a persuasive point than an actual statement in his case.
I still don't like how he arrived at the conclusion that two perfectly consistent statements by Shiao are inconsistent, but I guess the thought process somewhat makes sense.
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On June 22 2013 04:39 yamato77 wrote:
GK's other point about Shiao's other reads being nonexistent rings fairly true. His list post with a bunch of null reads and suspicion on Sloosh/Sylencia as about all we have to go off of, and it's not impressive.
I'm sympathetic to that point, but I don't believe it's allignment indicative of Shiao. I was screaming for Shiao's head in Mafia LXII for making posts like that, and ended up pretty wrong. If anything, I think it's something of a town-tell for him when he's being open about multiple players as opposed to forcing "clean" cases on a couple of targets.
Well with this, I have no scumreads. Yaaaaaay. Gotta read through again.
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##Vote SloOsh
Seems like a nice way to keep my vote warm.
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It never works out that well though >>
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@ slOosh
I'm more interested in the content you decide to produce yourself (namely scumhunting) than anything else. Are you all caught up?
@ Marv
Regarding Obvious, I was waiting to post that later tonight (around the 24-hour mark), but yes it's strange how he lectures the town about activity then proceeds to ignore his own advice and preaching.
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@ sloOsh
On June 22 2013 07:43 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 07:38 Hapahauli wrote:
@ slOosh
I'm more interested in the content you decide to produce yourself (namely scumhunting) than anything else. Are you all caught up?
More or less. The general things that caught my eye were ObviousOne's entry and ShiaoPi's entry.
Can you give me a fuller opinion on Shiao (besides his entry of course)?
@ Cora
You need to take a deep breath, step outside, and come back in an hour or so.
This isn't a game about a grudge with Marv - it's a game about finding mafia. Antagonizing people isn't going to get us anywhere.
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EPT
