PTP IV - Demon's Run - Page 5

On June 25 2013 01:34 Zephirdd wrote:
or rather, do you think WoS, compared to all the other players, is more or less likely to be scum?

On June 25 2013 02:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


his he can be very persuasive post? How is that a "i am town" post?

On June 25 2013 02:25 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Also, xat.

The reason i view sk8s ability use as not townlike is this.

He has actively had posts that are heavily heavily anti town. He actively admitted to trolling, and lying about reads. Denying to give his reads when he could have died as it "was people fishing"

He then near instantly starts claiming my shot was fake and proceeds to toss suspicion on me for it when he would know his power was responsible for him not dying. Given the fact he openly admitted to wanting to get shot, and has been behaving overall as someone attempting to take a vig bullet, I would put him down as a scum read. Just because he has a self defense power and that he came out and admitted it WELL AFTER a situation while using the role as a reason to call bullshit and clutter the thread even more.

Kita and Meapak both need to post more.

On June 25 2013 03:16 Acrofales wrote:

Because my automatic go-to isn't meta. It's a lot of work and I'm a busy man.

Your defense was fine. I didn't actually use much of it, but it didn't seem particularly panicked and explained your thought process a bit better. Combine that with what DI pointed out and me checking up on your meta, I decided you are not really the scummiest guy in the thread. You (probably) just have an unfortunate posting style that makes me raaaage.

On June 25 2013 03:30 gonzaw wrote:


linkys?

People, you should really post your past games in your profiles. If not meta-reading is a pain in the ass



What bothers me about you Xatalos is this "objective 3rd person" narrative you make.

You say stuff like "you are doing X, and this makes appear in a more scummy light" instead of stuff like "you are doing X and I think you are more scummy because of it".

It could be interpreted as scum "treading" carefully with his posts and suspicions, i.e "waffly waffles"
If I could read your previous town games it may make me feel better/worse about you....but if you do it as town it's a "weird" characteristic of your play :/


I have very little else to say that wasn't said by now in terms of players so I'll just wait for the right guys to do the stuff they need to do (e.g let's see if BC finally posts something that's not about sk8)

---

Speaking of this whole sk8 thing:
For fucks sake please post all the shit you need to post and defenses etc in a clear manner and get over with it

This goes to both of you.
For instance:
sk8: Can you tell us in which exact post you realized you could use your ability? I.e prove to us you weren't actually lying with that "BC is faking his shot", and show us which posts prove to us you stopped saying that (if you could....I dunno...SCUMHUNT as well then it'd be appreciated too)
BC: So what about sk8 being able to confirm himself as town? What about Xfire not saying anything about it (therefore basically confirming it)? Do you care about that at all? Because if Xfire isn't complaining then it's either true or both Xfire and sk8 are scum. Even if it's the 2nd one...he won't confirm himself as town never, therefore we'll lose our patience at some point and lynch him.
If the 2nd one is true, would a scum sk8 lie like that just to gain a little more time, but make it so he and Xfire go down 100%?

---

Also, this goes out to BC and austin (and others maybe):
You guy should make a 150% effort in trying to establish yourselves as town.
Why? Because you wrote your own roles.
If we are not sure you guys are town, we are not sure what your abilities are, and NOBODY can prove anything about them.

For instance, if I (as scum) have a super day vig shot, and I use it tomorrow to kill super-townies, then when I claim my role I'll most likely get lynched for it because my role maker will claim "gonzaw scum yo".
It works the other way as well, if I DONT do anything weird, still, when I claim my role creator will vouch for me and you guys will know I CANT use a super day vig shot to kill super-townies

I have no idea if any of you 2 can use super-anti-town-day-vig shots or not, so if you guys are scummy townies, it'll just create paranoid (and maybe get you lynched I guess).
So yeah, you have more responsibility than the rest of us in that aspect...

...I say this because both of you aren't doing a great job at that

---

Speaking of roles:

Dear role creator,

Did you roll scum before or after creating my role? I think you may have rolled scum BEFORE because this shit is the most anti-town thing ever how the fuck am I supposed to use it?
You are supposed to design roles so they are usable by either alignment (I don't even care if it's OP or not, it should be USABLE at least)
Currently my role is UNUSABLE as town, so I'm basically a VT now.
So thank you for that...

...unless there's a hidden strategy I'm missing, so if the time comes where I have to make a super-pro-town plan just tell me, because I have no idea you can do anything that slightly resembles something pro-town with this role

Thank you,
Unsatisfied role customer

I could even claim my role because idgaf, but well it's night and all so maybe it's a bad idea
I just wanted to vent

On June 25 2013 03:43 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
So let’s kill WoS tomorrow. I’ve mentioned him several times and finally got around to making a case.



WoS starts out with a very weird post complaining about the “fucking around” going on. The game has only been going on for a few pages and he’s already divided people into camps of “tryharding” and “fucking around” ultimately however, this post does nothing. It’s pure fluff with the intention of looking all townie and concerned.

TAKE AWAY FROM THIS POST: He mentions player names and yet makes no reads. He exploits the state of the thread to appear townie.





Let’s take these next two posts at the same time, unfounded accusations against two players for no reason. Now WoS will probably say he was just fucking around with the first post, however remember this is something he already ranted about and is thus inconsistent with his earlier “anger” at the state of the thread. A townie would have kept consistent, however scum would see no reason to actually improve thread atmosphere. Now the second post is even worse in my mind, he goes after acro despite having said he had “joined the tryhard camp” hereSo despite “tryharding” the best he can do is still an unfounded accusation.

TAKE AWAY FROM THESE POSTS: Despite his earlier concern for the thread, WoS contributes nothing of value and instead flings around accusations. His second accusation was made even after he talked about tryharding.



It would have been fine if WoS had done this after substantiating his Acro concerns but he doesn’t. Instead he votes him after no more analysis other than this. He also buddies up to kita.

TAKE AWAY FROM THIS POST: WoS does nothing to advance his case.



Wtf is this post right here? He plays the noob card an acts apologetic in the same post. Like I can’t get over how bad his excuse is for his play thus far, he’s worth killing imo based on this alone. The he brings up acro, but his reasons are horrible. He mentions that he’s “not sure about him” seemingly because acro hasn’t discussed him? I’m sitting here writing this and I still can’t get over how horrible this reasoning is. Not only is it horrible, it’s incredibly forced. WoS clearly needed a reason to justify his suspicions of acro and this was the best he could do.

TAKE AWAY FROM THIS POST: WoS plays the noob card and apologizes for his earlier actions then proceeds to force a suspicion of acro.



This is literally his next post, he offers a defense against himself and then says his only scumread is sk8. Literally his only previous mention of sk8 is, and I quote, “fucking skaterman.” And yet someone sk8 is his number one scumread. He has conveniently forgotten about acro.

TAKE AWAY FROM THIS POST: As pressure is starting to build on sk8 in the thread, WoS suddenly adopts sk8 as his number one read and drops acro.

+ Show Spoiler +

Filler questions which serve no purpose other than make WoS look active

TAKE AWAY FROM THESE POSTS: see above, it’s the same



Look at the wording of this post, it’s incredibly wishy washy and weak. Now if WoS was discussing someone who he had a null read on I’d understand, but remember this is sk8 who is supposedly WoS’s number one read. If you read this post a couple times you’ll notice it literally doesn’t say anything. In fact, he directly contradicts himself from earlier, he went from having sk8 as his number one scum suspect to being “not convinced yet”

TAKE AWAY FROM THIS POST: WoS completely backtracks on his earlier scum read on sk8 in perhaps the weakest way possible.



This is just lulzy, he now admits that his acro vote was trolling but remember he made that vote after he said he was tryharding and he even tried to justify his reasons.
TAKE AWAY FOR THIS POST: WoS fucks up.

Now I’d like to take a break from WoS for a second and bring attention back to my post about reactions to BC’s shot My post here is required reading. Notice my point about WoS. I will admit that it is perhaps not the strongest point in a vacuum, however when you look at it with the rest of my analysis it, it suddenly becomes very strong. Read my post again and remember that sk8 was WoS’s number one scum read. His. Number. One. Scum. Read. He doesn’t have any others. He is preparing for a possible green flip and wants to make himself look as good as possible. I know that if someone vigi’d WoS right now I’d be stoked we didn’t have to waste a lynch on him. Most people would probably be happy to see that their number one scum read had been shot. Nope, WoS takes a defensive stance.

TAKE AWAY FROM THIS POST: If you’ve only been reading the take aways, please actually read all of my analysis on this one, it’s too important.



Buddy buddy buddy with kita. Also calls out BC for fake frustration, oh the irony… Also he continues to argue against the shot. Let’s review quickly, WoS thought sk8 was scummy, BC thought sk8 was scummy, BC shot sk8, WoS attacked BC’s shot…

TAKE AWAY FROM THIS POST: WoS continues to show zero consistency and instead seems content to go with the thread.
Similar posts here



So wait, is BC now scum WoS? This is something scum love to do and that’s discredit people without directly calling them scum. WoS has been doing it to BC for several posts now. What he’s implying here is that “BC is scum using fake rage to hide his actions.” Of course it would be an aggressive stance to take so WoS is trying to hide behind cautious words.

TAKE AWAY FROM THIS POST: WoS discredits BC, but rather than take a firm stand he continues with his wishy washy behavior.

Similar posts here
here
here



Suddenly sk8 was “well on his way to proving his towniness.” L o fucking l. WoS goes with the thread, he was on sk8 when the thread was, now that BC is under the gun he’s going after BC. Convenient. He also gets in a few more bashes at BC.

TAKE AWAY FROM THIS POST: WoS is content to base his reads on how popular they’ll be in the thread.

Next we have a two post tango. We go from this:


To this:



What I’ve quoted for you are WoS’s first interaction with solstice and then his next interaction. I think I’m starting to sound like a broken record here but WoS changes his scumreads based on the thread. Like really, let’s review, he had no scum reads other than sk8, sk8 got shot at and he started going after BC, then the thread turned on solstice (who was fucking town), and WoS is all over him. WoS really doesn’t care who dies, he just doesn’t want to stand out,
TAKE AWAY FROM THESE POSTS: WoS fucks up again



Yuuuup, let’s kill someone to get those town numbers down amirite WoS?



Now WoS is rewriting history, sk8 “never WAS scum” lol unreal.
TAKE AWAY FROM THIS POST: WoS fucks up again



WoS really just gives it away here, “I’d hammer him for the flip.” That’s not a very townie mindset -_- Then he brings up the fact he was afk and tries to say I defended him? All I was saying was that since the shot happened so fast it wouldn’t be fair to modkill people who didn’t vote but WoS feels the need to get on a giant explain train as to why he wasn’t here.

TAKE AWAY FROM THIS POST: WoS is content to kill whoever is under the gun as has been shown time and again, furthermore he brings up nonsense points to muddy the waters.



Yup, he knows he’s not gonna die lol. Also I’d love to see some unique scumreads but my guess is they’ll be whatever it is that the thread is currently discussing.

Ok I’m done here, this guy is so scum it’s not even funny.

On June 25 2013 04:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Do I still want sk8r to eat a bullet/lynch? Yes. I know a few others deserving of the same treatment.

On June 25 2013 04:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


atm, kita is pretty high on my list. I keep harping on sk8r because he keeps posting his bullshit. -_- Hes likely tied for my #1 read atm

On June 25 2013 04:33 kitaman27 wrote:


I'd recommend saving it for after the day post, assuming things work out as planned. Wouldn't want to waste your precious time after all

On June 25 2013 04:34 Acrofales wrote:
Yay. Gonzaw is town. Other than that: I haven't read the giant case, so can't say anything about MZ or WoS.

@Xatalos: what was the point of those questions? An exploration in self-analysis? If it is somehow going to help you scumhunt I'll answer, but it seems more postgame oriented than of any use right now.

On June 25 2013 04:42 austinmcc wrote:
THIS POST GOT WAY TOO BIG AND IT MIGHT BE CONFUSING TOWARDS THE END

acro, this is some butt right here.


For one, Maybe that was unclear, but no context meant I was just re-filtering and not going through to really dig into when votes came in, when he posted, where votes moved.

---

Regardless of that, here's the main reason this post is butt.

Crossfire's posts about skater don't stop the lynch.

Look at his posts - + Show Spoiler +

While it's clear that crossfire thinks skater is town from those posts, it's (1) not clear/substantiated if you remove the role; and (2) he's not even sure about the role --> town, based on his response to zephir.


Second, I don't read the pages that follow those posts as people moving votes because crossfire has convinced them that skater is town. Skater has 7 votes at 4:33 TL time. Crossfire makes his posts.

First to unvote is Zephir, who voted based on acro's case and skater not trying to scum hunt thinking he'd die - + Show Spoiler +. He then says he voted for skater because BC town, BC thinks skater mafia, Zephir sheeping.+ Show Spoiler +. Note that the given reasons for Zephir's vote are NOT that skater survived a shot, and all crossfire came in and said was that he knew how skater survived the shot. So crossfire's posts should not have altered Zephir's vote at this point. BC and acro still voting skater. He still didn't scumhunt when zeph wanted to see scumhunting. Crossfire's posts don't address the things Zephir thought were scummy.

Dandel switches next - + Show Spoiler +Dandel unvotes skater not because of crossfire, but to avoid a no lynch.

kita pulls his vote off among these posts - + Show Spoiler +. He wants to know whether Crossfire is saying skater's own role is responsible for BC's shot being refunded. kita's earlier vote post has skater as scum BECAUSE of the roleblock, so this would actually be crossfire's posts directly addressing kita's reason for voting. But remember, crossfire doesn't know how BC was roleblocked -

****#1 TAKEAWAY FROM THIS SO FAR - HOLY BALLS THE LANGUAGE IS CONFUSING. BC WAS NOT BLOCKED BUT HAD A SHOT REFUNDED. CROSSFIRE DOES NOT KNOW HOW BC WAS ROLEBLOCKED, BUT DOES KNOW HOW SKATER SURVIVED. BUT THE REST OF US CAN'T TELL WORTH ANYTHING WHETHER THE WAY IN WHICH CROSSFIRE THINKS SKATER SURVIVED IS ONE THAT WOULD REFUND BC'S BULLET OR NOT. EVERYONE'S INTERPRETATION OF THE VAGARIES OF THESE POSTS MATTERS A BUNCH, BECAUSE WE CAN'T SEE CLEAR REASONS FOR VOTES TO CHANGE IN SOME CASES****

geript unvotes because - + Show Spoiler +AGAIN. SUPER UNHELPFUL. GONZAW WASN'T CONVINCED ON SKATER IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND THIS ISN'T REALLY REASONING FOR CHANGING A VOTE, BUT AT THE VERY LEAST IT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE DUE TO CROSSFIRE.

Then kurumi is the last to unvote skater, but at no point has seemed to think that skater is town or telling the truth.

---

---

---

All that nonsense is to say, acro, that your post is butt. I completely disagree with you saying crossfire "basically singehandedly stopped the lynch on skater." The only person who appears to have been directly swayed by crossfire is kita, and kita didn't even get a fully clear answer to his question of whether skater's role was responsible for BC's refunded bullet, or whether skater's role should have allowed him to survive in a different manner.

A bunch of the votes were just...wagon votes because skater never quite got to majority. Two of the unvotes appear to be pure sheeping of something else. Kurumi still thinks skater is scum as far as I can tell. You're assigning a lot of credit to crossfire here, him singlehandedly stopping a lynch, and it doesn't read that way AT ALL.

Do you disagree? Do you actually think those votes swapped due to Crossfire's comments about making a role?

On June 25 2013 04:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


I have him more or less null at the moment. He has done stuff that looks fucking bad, but hes also done stuff that looks good. If not for Meapaks analysis post right now how many people would put him as a #1 scum read? hes done very little since the lynch and thus you would think if he was this heavily suspected would have been pushed as an option over austin.

On June 25 2013 04:49 Dandel Ion wrote:
BC, since your shot has been refunded, why did you never try shooting anybody else?

On June 25 2013 05:01 Acrofales wrote:

I wouldn't say I was. Self-analysis is pretty useless, though, as everybody is the most awesomest mafia player in their own mind.

I think all of this stems from the fact that I wasn't around for the 2 or 3 hours before the deadline, which I can explain by being in the park. I know sunlight is scary to some TL folks, but you should try it sometime.

On June 25 2013 05:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


cant use til day 2. Which is why i thought roleblock not just refund

On June 25 2013 04:57 Acrofales wrote:


Look guys! I'll throw out a test balloon, and when it hilariously backfires and someone calls me scum, I will backpedal as fast as I can.

Additionally, now that you have exhaustively gone through the context, you're still wrong. Whether they were "sheep votes" or not, it is completely clear that Xfire killed the momentum in that lynch.

Half of my case was based on the fact that sk8er reacted in a non-townlike manner to expecting to die. sk8er himself then claimed (a little bit) how his role worked, which isn't enough because who knows whether he's telling the truth. Xfire confirmed that it was either the truth or they're both lying scum (highly unlikely). So the very fact that his role prevented him from dying debunked most of my case. And when I read the thread upon returning from the park (not sleeping, you derps), I wondered why sk8er hadn't been lynched, and that was the exact moment in the thread where I thought "yeah, I wouldn't lynch sk8er anymore at this point".

So... you wrote ALL of that to call me BAD? Or are you calling Xfire scum? Or what exactly are you doing?

I know I'd be happy with your head on a stake tomorrow.

On June 25 2013 05:31 Acrofales wrote:
Well, the first thing I have to say about the case is that his analysis of the early game WoS is fine. I had similar thoughts, but it derails when he thinks WoS had a scumread on sk8er. The scumread was on me. His post was addressed at me. Only the first line of the post was in response to sk8er.

Well, either that, or I read that post wrong at the time and in the reread I just did. So then his case is based upon the giant shift in viewpoint that WoS suddenly defends sk8er... while WoS never had a scumread on sk8er. He was somewhat dubious about sk8er's posting, but I never got the impression he thought sk8er was scum, and at the time I also had the feeling that he was at about the same wavelength as I was in my thoughts about sk8er.