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On June 23 2013 08:54 gonzaw wrote:
Before I make a case on him please post thoughts on solstice.
...well I still have to finish reading the thread so I may back out (page 22 so far), but thoughts on people are always welcomed
I think s0lstice is probable town. He is contributing sensibly to the thread with things that agree with my own way of reading the thread.
Of course, being sensible is not an automatic town tell, but I don't see anything that screams scum at me.
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On June 23 2013 09:12 s0Lstice wrote:someone tell me why this is impossible Show nested quote +
You are a vig switch! Until you are dead, anyone attempting to use a vigilante type ability is immediately roleblocked!
use your imagination guys. we know so little about what roles are in the game right now. Skater- I think you are both probably town. I've said my reasoning on you before. As for BC, as this went on, the more clear it became that he really believes you are contributing to an anti-town atmosphere. I don't agree with the action, but the intent looks pure to me. A vig removing a person he views as hurtful to town is not a bad shot as far as that vig is concerned.
It's not impossible, but it'd be nice if someone claimed they made a role which does something capable of stopping a dayvig, rather than random postulation of roles that *can* stop a dayvig.
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On June 23 2013 09:11 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 08:56 Acrofales wrote:On June 23 2013 08:33 s0Lstice wrote:
lol this should be good.
Acro...skater was the target of the shot, time is going to dilate for him while waiting for a mod post, hence he'll be the one to decide its fake first. There was literally only 20 minutes between the shot and sk8er assuming that it was fake, though. That is some very unrealistic expectations of a host (given that neither had shown signs of being here for hours before that point). I had only two choices either assume it's fake or die or maybe... ##Lovetap Acrofales ?
Or, you could have used the time you spent assuming it was fake to give reads (like I asked you to). So that in case you flipped, there was at least something useful in your filter. In particular an updated read on BC, which never really came.
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On June 23 2013 09:37 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 07:47 Acrofales wrote:
Anybody feel like claiming they roleblocked BC? That whole thing just played out extremely weirdly... but I also think it pretty much confirms BC as a dayvig. I don't see any reason at all to lie about the ability and the way it played out as either alignment.
If he is scum, then a townie with a town read on sk8er was quick on the trigger. In this case, it almost HAS to be a post-hoc roleblock, because I don't see a townie bothering to roleblock when all BC was doing was talking about deliberating about shooting.
If he is town, then there's the added possibility that sk8er is scum and has a scumbuddy who can daytime (post-hoc?) roleblock. In this case it could have been a quick roleblock before he actually shot.
Did anybody design a role that could have done a post-hoc roleblock? If not, I think we should lynch sk8er. The only way this would make sense is if: Sk8 is scum A scum created role X that can RB at day Another scum received that role That scum used it on Sk8 to save him It assumes that Sk8 is scum, the receiver of said role is scum, and the creator of said role is scum. That's too much coincidence. If the creator of said role is town, he'll just claim "I made this role and it exists!" and we'll know it exists, and it'll force the RBer to claim (if he doesn't RBer is scum) If the receiver of said role is town, he'll claim the RB (it's not like it "outs" him or anything, just say "I Rbed him") if Sk8 is town....well yeah lynching him is bad.
Huh? You're not making any sense. The creator of the role doesn't have to be scum at all. All we'll know is that the role exists, not who has it (although we'll know the role name).
We already know that either the role exists, or BC is lying. And we have some circumstantial evidence from Sent that seems to indicate that there were multiple actions happening, so it seems likely SOMETHING was going on.
So, seeing as the roleblocker hasn't claimed yet, I see no reason why his role being outed would feel the need to claim. However, if the roleblock doesn't work post-hoc, I think it's pretty clear evidence that the roleblocker was scum (because why would a townie preemptively roleblock BC?)
That means that other than the roleblocker, sk8er would also be scum.
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I am disappointed in yall.
I spent 6 hours getting drunk and thee is olny one page of new posts... and only BC and gonzaw wronte walls of test. Theyr're confirmed town imho. Rest. All scum. G'nigt
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On June 24 2013 01:20 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Dropping my vote on BC for today because he will not be getting lynched today and I don't want to vote split.
##Unvote
##Vote Zephirdd
Wait... what?! So tell me why Zephir is scum. According to you, not according to those other guys voting for him.
Also, I'm catching up on the thread now. I hope I can make an informed decision in the next hour or so, because I have to go out and don't know whether I'll be back for the deadline.
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Okay, I filtered zephirdd and don't get a strong scumread. He hasn't done very much, but his longer post seems quite okay to me and I don't see the problems with his post about DI either. The post Gonzaw objects to: I fail to see how you get a read on zephirdd from him stating his conclusion that BC is probably town. I did so too, and so did a number of other people, including Gonzaw himself. I don't see that being much of a case.
However, austin is making my scumdar ping like a maniac with his behaviour towards zephir.
At the start of the game, he seemed concerned about exactly one thing: figuring out zephir.
+ Show Spoiler [austin's preoccupation with zephir] +On June 22 2013 07:32 austinmcc wrote:Or maybe I DO have that power and you're immune to it. My read on Zephirdd is that he managed to win PTP3 for his team by being a jerky mafia face. I don't like that, but tbh I don't remember him doing anything super duper mafia-y. Gonna be trying to get info out of him early, because he was able to blend in late game once everyone was lazified and didn't care.[/QUOTE Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 22:58 austinmcc wrote:
Actually, beyond just that...Zephir, was there any particular setup/role figuring discussion that you guys were worried about in pick their pokemon? Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 22:33 austinmcc wrote:
Zephirdd, in Poke-pick-their-power-palooza, were you worried/flustered by the thought of claimfests where everyone tried to figure out who made what role/what role had what powers? Or did it not matter to you?
Acro/others, I'm not sure that claiming names really does anything to help sort out later situations where we need to claim roles. If everyone claims, then yes, we know what roles might be open to being fakeclaimed. But if the creator is dead, SOMEONE has the rolename they made a role for, and that person can make up whatever they want and knowing the maker doesn't help anyone. If we don't claim, mafia can't really fakeclaim a power but a real role name, because the role creator MIGHT still be alive.
I keep poking around that, but I don't think we get enough out of just claiming what roles we made that it's worth filling in some of the information that the mafia doesn't have. Also, Other Reasons.
That is 100% of his early posts with actual content (meaning, not trolling). While at the time I didn't really mind it too much, because trying to really figure out 1 person who you are afraid of, if scum, is a fairly okay way to start D1, lets see how this desire to figure him out progresses.
Then gonzaw makes the comment. I don't think it should even be called a case, because gonzaw doesn't even push zephir, his main focus is s0lstice (who I will look into next), and austinmcc practically leaps at it:
[QUOTE]On June 23 2013 23:55 austinmcc wrote:
In stuff people may care about - gonzaw, everyone <3s you and so I focused on your reads. I honestly like the zephirdd read.
Okay...
But it feels more like he likes it because it is an easy setup for him to get on a rolling wagon where he won't be suspicious than anything else. Lets look at the case:
[quote]
In pokePTP, he won the game for scum by just surviving, didn't catch a lot of attention. I didn't like losing that game, and had planned on trying to keep some focus on him in this game to make sure it didn't happen. My early questions weren't great, but it was both (1) a way to get a little information out of him and (2) an important viewpoint to get when considering claims and whatnot. For all the arguing in this thread about who liked the idea of roleclaiming or not, whether it was good for scum or not, we have people who were scum in PTP games here, can ask them directly whether roleclaiming was something scum was worried about. Who cares whether we think it might be good or bad, we can directly ask someone who was scum whether roleclaiming made his team worried or not. His answers were slightly shifty, in that I was hoping for something more firm but got nothing firm at all[quote]If I could offer some advice, don't trust any claim - no matter how townie it sounds like.[/quote][quote]I really don't remember much actually, it was a long time ago. I was afk a lot on that game too(I forgot to send many stuff to hosts).. but you can get an idea of that on the scum qt. I do think we were worried about roles a lot actually, I was worried about Charmander(which was my creation) particularly, but he ended up killing himself with Drazerk bus-driving him iirc.[/quote]I missed my window to really poke at this, but don't like how, for the most part, he passes the buck instead of making the "I was scum in a PTP game, was this situation something scum wanted to happen" --> "I am in another PTP game, this situation is something scum would/wouldn't want to happen here" jump.
[/quote]
What a load of crock. This is not indicative of alignment at all.
[quote]
Beyond that, he's focused on DI, but...seems like most of the people referencing DI mention the alliance post. Zephir doesn't. Using the term "alliance" doesn't make DI town or scum, but it's a piece of his filter that has stood out to people as they read DI. Minor concern that zephir, who appears more focused on DI than anyone else, doesn't mention it.
Instead, what he does mention is...bland[QUOTE]On June 23 2013 17:46 Zephirdd wrote:
Dandel's posting has been so... fucking stupid. Goes from the 75/25% mafia/town ratio(which is stupid) to calling BC a claimed SK to calling him a troll to saying his previous post is not what it actually is(semantics) etc... It's really stupid.
But then, post "zephirdd not putting effort into his reads"(which he is right; I'm not) he makes some half-decent points about geript.
Geript's points are not anti-town though. He is asking legit questions, pushing possible contradictions.
DI feels like he is trying to discredit/shut down possible questions that could corner someone.
My mind keeps flipfloping on Dandelion, and I keep going back(in my own restricted mind) to austin who has been gone for a while.
Dandelion, please do post your thoughts on austinmcc and maybe post his reasoning towards asking the questions he did towards me. Anyone else is free to do the same, but I'm extra interested in DI.[/QUOTE]DI's posting is stupid/really stupid/fucking stupid. He's trying to shut down questions. But at the same time Zephir says DI is making decent points about himself/geript. For all the focus that zephir's posts put on DI, there's never really a ... summation of thoughts. He notes that his read on DI wavers, but his vote doesn't, and his focus doesn't, and there's just no followup on his wavering.
##vote: Zephirdd[/QUOTE]
I agree that zephir's case on DI is not very strong, but it doesn't feel forced. This, however, feels forced. Austin gives no impression of trying to figure Zephir out, just paint him as scum.
And that is all that austin has done. This from a guy who generally has pretty insightful reads. I am not impressed at all... and the zephir wagon smells even fishier because of it.
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Also,it's well into sunday already. Where's xfire?
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On June 24 2013 01:56 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 01:41 Xatalos wrote:
Dandel Ion, you really think we should lynch Zephirdd over s0Lstice...? over s0l? yes. But there are still like 5 people I'd rather lynch over zeph, s0l is not one of them tho. At this point, I just don't want no no-lynch. 5 people are not even voting, about as many throw away their votes on randoms. what's a brother to do.
Vote for SnB. Lurking SnB is scum SnB.
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On June 24 2013 01:59 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 01:32 Acrofales wrote:On June 24 2013 01:20 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Dropping my vote on BC for today because he will not be getting lynched today and I don't want to vote split.
##Unvote
##Vote Zephirdd Wait... what?! So tell me why Zephir is scum. According to you, not according to those other guys voting for him. Also, I'm catching up on the thread now. I hope I can make an informed decision in the next hour or so, because I have to go out and don't know whether I'll be back for the deadline. The day is almost over and the only two trains that are possible are Dandel and Zephird. Why are you so surprised that I would vote him?
1. With almost over you mean we have another 4 hours or so?
2. Because you haven't even MENTIONED Zephir before.
Actually, SnB can wait for another day. Sk8er is trying to kill Zephir without even bothering to figure out whether he's scum or town, hence sk8er is scum.
##vote sk8er
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On June 24 2013 02:02 Dandel Ion wrote:
that however is not a decently good lynch
Explain to me why sk8er is town.
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On June 24 2013 02:04 s0Lstice wrote:
After that big post I'd think Austin would be a good pivot for you Acro. What are you doing?
I'm waiting for him to reply, because he seems to be around (at least somewhat) and I am not completely convinced he's scum, but well on my way there.
SnB is based on meta.
sk8er is based on him not giving a shit about who he lynches, as long as someone dies.
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On June 24 2013 02:14 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 02:11 Xatalos wrote:On June 24 2013 01:51 s0Lstice wrote:
I read your defense Xatalos, and I frankly don't care that you care so much about how I'm not sharing every waking thought I have in thread. If it makes that much of a difference for you, I'm gonna wait and see on you. You are here and posting, so if you are scum I don't think it will be difficult. I prioritize the time I have to play the game with, and Zeph is the lynch I want to go with as I was reading through filters. I can deal with other stuff later.
Gonzaw's case was terrible. Don't care about that either atm. I feel dumber having read it.
You seem content to sail off into confirmation bias land though, so enjoy your journey!
The rest of you bubba's, get your vote on. Let's kill Zeph. Ugh, now this feels like talking to Kurumi (=a brick wall). If I'm in "confirmation bias land", then you're in "not doing anything land". Except dodging questions, throwing dirt and bandwagoning... This post of solstice's is what confirmed him as scum to me. Look back at Les Mafia, tell me when solstice was ever this needlessly belligerent.
Quoting a post of Xatalos to say s0lstice is scum. Herp?
Derp.
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On June 24 2013 02:15 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 02:14 Acrofales wrote:On June 24 2013 02:04 s0Lstice wrote:
After that big post I'd think Austin would be a good pivot for you Acro. What are you doing? I'm waiting for him to reply, because he seems to be around (at least somewhat) and I am not completely convinced he's scum, but well on my way there. SnB is based on meta. sk8er is based on him not giving a shit about who he lynches, as long as someone dies. look at the votecount. We SHOULD be giving a shit about getting a lynch atm. Who is almost secondary atm. But you may also keep wasting your vote if you don't give a shit about the lynch.
I know you always play like this, and it is pointless to try and convince you otherwise, especially as I won't even be around for the deadline, so I can't even push a proper counterwagon, but we should be trying to lynch scum, not just randomly lynch SOMEONE.
Especially as I don't even have a clear scumread on the guy who is currently vote leader (which does not really mean anything until he has a majority).
Filtering sk8er again, but by memory, his play boils down to this:
1. Aggressive and trolly start. Unexpected if scum, for being new to the forum. So townie points.
2. Strange reaction to the shot, and didn't actually do anything with it. Not giving out reads, not figuring out what BC's alignment is.
3. Doesn't care where he votes.
Point 1 simply doesn't hold up in the face of 2 and 3. Lets kill him.
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Item 1: inconsistent thought patterns
On June 23 2013 03:06 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 02:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On June 23 2013 02:40 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:On June 23 2013 02:25 strongandbig wrote:On June 23 2013 01:16 Acrofales wrote:On June 23 2013 01:05 strongandbig wrote:
Acro you voted me but what do you think of my first post? Y u vote me btw. Voted for you because you're tricksy scum. You used to be easy to catch, but you've upped your game. Your first post picked on a pretty easy target and gave a rather dubious reason for calling him scum (or at least FoS'ing him). You're voting me because I'm harder to catch than I used to be? Okay great. When you say it was "dubious", do you mean that you disagree with my analysis? Because whatshisface just admitted that his bc vote had no real motivation, and I don't buy the "I did it to gauge reactions but I'm not gonna explain what they were or what my analysis is" line, so I'm not feeling too "dubious" here. You think a random vote before BC even posted would have actually meant something? I am keeping it on him because I'm surprised at how you are trying to discredit me for an action that normal people would have just marked off as trolling. to be honest what you just said would implicate snb as scum not me, but keep up the good work. your record of not lynching townies is going to be broken if you manage to lynch me. It's only 1 vote, and yes but I am not sure enough of Snb to put him at 2 votes, yet.
This was the first post that I marked as odd. It was really early in the game. Sk8er didn't want to put SnB at a whopping 2 votes, despite seemingly agreeing that SnB was scum (and he had SnB in his 3man scumteam with BC and WoS).
Late in the day, when votes start to mean something, he is COMPLETELY okay casting a vote on Zephirdd, who he hasn't even mentioned once in his entire filter up to that point. Does he think Zephir is scum? Who knows. He just randomly voted.
Verdict: scum
Item 2: a "fight" with BC
On June 23 2013 03:45 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 03:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
You didn't even bother answering why you aren't pushing your scum reads. Why aren't you? Making lists with 0 reasoning behind it or solid commitment to your read is useless and is incredibly scummy. You are my scum read, which I have committed to pushing. Making a day 1 list of who I think is scummy is not scummy. Of course i'm not going to push them, because really they are just lists. If you want to be technical, yes I was not serious when I said 100%. It's day 1, you should assume that I was not 100% sure. Defending and discrediting me so hard on day one however, is scummy. Hearing that you died d1 your past few PTP's makes me feel bad. I might consider doing a pity unvote.
So sk8er was pretty hard on BC's case. While the initial pressure vote was useless, in the discussion with BC he doesn't seem to want to back down, but he never actually acts as if he thinks BC is scum. He just throws out percentages and then argues about them.
Then BC gets into it and starts questioning this. In this post he suddenly becomes placating. Note he still hasn't actually given a reason for calling BC scum, he's just "committed to his D1 read". But simultaneously he feels sorry and might unvote. While this seems like a pretty inoccuous townie creating conversation, it could just as well be scum. This is not indicative of alignment, despite what I thought earlier:
Verdict: neutral
Item 3: the shot
My time's up, so I'll be short: he doesn't try to get any useful information out there before the mod comes in to kill him. Rather he buggers around calling the shot fake, without even concluding anything from that assumption.
Even his strong scumread, BC:
On June 23 2013 04:52 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 04:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On June 23 2013 04:46 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:
Since I have yet to flip, I'm going to assume that was a fake day vig kill. go for it, no hosts are around to activate it thus we wait. You aren't dead until they post. Well since I am thinking it's faked to try and get me to reveal more.....I will not be revealing any information. Honestly my reads are not good because it's day 1, killing me because of a poor fos on you is very strange. I would not have been able to get you lynched anyways.
Now there is something that can actually be used as evidence. He just calls it strange and gives no indication of trying to figure it out.
On June 23 2013 06:03 xxSK8rGUy277xx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 05:52 Acrofales wrote:On June 23 2013 05:50 Dandel Ion wrote:
hosts totally afk the shot is real guys Posted 1 minute after the vote count. GG. Shot probably fake, or failed for some other reason. Which is weird, because both BC and sk8r seem convinced it had no reason to fail. Sk8r! Are you bulletproof? Nope. I most certainly am not. I was going to go cry of getting killed day 1 in my first TL Mafia game. But apparently, BC trolls the trolls with fake day vigi claims. Ok so BC has - Claimed to be vigi Claimed to write his own role, aka vigi Lied about shooting me, to either pressure me into revealing information or something. I was convinced it was real up until now. I have no meta reasoning. People say this makes me illogical when really I need to do plays like this to gain information on them. I'm not going to read through all your past games to get an idea of the Meta. I voted him for no reason, true. He then tunneled me hard and then tried to day shoot me. His reasonings were that I were being anti-town for not revealing reads on a troll post I made. So grats, you forced me to hint at my role. Except now you revealed that you are lying about your role. I am not bulletproof in any way.
Still no judgement. Just aggrieved QQ about being shot. Oh, and BC is a troll.
His tone changes very radically, but he still doesn't make a concerted effort to scumhunt.
Verdict: scum
And, because I am heading out, I am putting my secret vote on him as well. Yes, I have a secret vote. And no, I see no point in keeping that secret.
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On June 24 2013 02:35 austinmcc wrote:
Phone when I can check it.
Acro, based on comments, skater's role means he wouldn't have died even if bc didn't get blocked. I don't think you can expect the normal infodump IF he actually survives a shot and WANTED to get shot.
While I don't think skater set himself up to get shot at night, I believe he was trying to. Weird thing to claim, probably true, and hopefully explains the change in behavior.
I also don't read his voteswap as scummy. I'd prefer there be some more reasoning, any original thoughts, but it was so blatant, when I'd expect scum to try and justify.
Sk8er said he WOULD die.
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I'm back and hosting duties are done. I see I have some catching up to do. I get the impression from the post that s0lstice wasn't lynched, but something else happened? I'm confused.
Also. NOOOOO Why would you kill The Doctor?! I made an amazingly awesome role for him and now he doesn't get to use it. I have a new mission: kill whoever killed s0lstice.
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On June 24 2013 05:15 Dandel Ion wrote:
So how y'all feeling about switching to snb?
Instead of no-lynching, we might as well save us the vig shot.
I would have felt damned good about this at the time. Shame you didn't do it.
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On June 24 2013 08:22 Dandel Ion wrote:
The role doesn't even sound that good, certainly nothing to be mad over.
Although I guess you could just go one-shot poisoner instead, so it kinda works.
Who cares if it's good or not. It was FUN.
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On June 24 2013 05:51 gonzaw wrote:
So that's why Acro didn't want him lynched then?
Hmm, let's see what Acro said, I think he said "I doubt The Doctor is scum". Did Acro post stuff specifically about solstice?
I had absolutely no idea that s0lstice was the doctor. But... yeah, I would have campained harder against him being lynched with that info. The role is not too powerful for town, but would be ridiculous in scum hands.
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EPT
