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[N] Sicilian Mafia Style - Page 12

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Malongo
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Chile3472 Posts
July 16 2013 08:33 GMT
#221
I cant believe I am the newbie here.

##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh

I dont care if you go to bed, and your post was just too polarized for no reason.
Help me! im still improving my English. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. M. G.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
July 16 2013 08:34 GMT
#222
No, if someone gets anonymously pardoned the suspicion will obviously be on me. There is no reason i should have claimed as mafia. There is no reason i should have not claimed as town.
table for two on a tv tray
Malongo
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Chile3472 Posts
July 16 2013 08:41 GMT
#223
On July 16 2013 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No, if someone gets anonymously pardoned the suspicion will obviously be on me. There is no reason i should have claimed as mafia. There is no reason i should have not claimed as town.

Oletko suomalainen?
Help me! im still improving my English. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. M. G.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
July 16 2013 11:24 GMT
#224
On July 16 2013 13:48 slOosh wrote:
Hey guys.

If people are unsure about how to mason, they should just avoid using it. Worst thing we can do is have all the discussion going on in PM land and nothing to go off of someone's alignment other than their mason's read on them.

While Vayne made a personal choice not to mason, you seem to be directing people to avoid using it. Do you have an inherent motivation to discourage people from masoning? A discussion in "PM land" doesn't prevent discussions from happening in thread. I can't see why you would recommend people not to mason at all.

I actually second this. Sloosh answer.
This is really stupid, everyone should mason. There is no reason not to. Why do you think there is?
##Vote: slOosh

As for Hapa's questions:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 16 2013 13:17 Hapahauli wrote:
Hey all!

Regarding PM usage, I think a very good early use of PM's is to try and establish the alignment of someone you know very well. For instance, I already used my first mason on Yamato77, who I'm very adept at reading and is a pretty good town player. Through these efforts I will slowly build a scum-hunting circle of awesomeness.

I'll admit I'm a tad worried about the post-count restriction and our ability to jumpstart Day 1 reliably, especially if spammy players are concerned about the post-limit. As a result, perhaps a good 'ol fashioned questionnaire might be best to kick things off!

1) What are your views on PM usage? How and when should they be used?
2) Are there any policy lynches around the posting-limit we should consider? (i.e. if someone doesn't use all their posts, they get lynched, etc)
3) Who are players you feel you can read very well and reliably in this game?

1) To find scum. Not going to be more specific, but i want to know why are you so eager to know this from all the players?
2) No, lurkers should be vigged asap. If someone wastes their posts on bullshit we lynch them.
3) Oats. Vayne. Both town.

DrH, please if you are town. Do not waste your posts arguing with Vayne. His argument is more likely to come from a townie than from mafia, and you are just wasting posts into that. Vayne will prove his alignment later for sure, but he is probably town.

FirmTofu, What was the purpose of your first post? You yourself said "it should not be considered alignment indicative", and basically everything you said i disagree with, or the statements / "advice" is obvious. Why would you make a post that does not help us finding scum or figuring out your alignment?

VE, explain your vote on DrH, how does that make him scum? Do you think he is intentionally wasting his posts?

Malongo, yes i'm a Finn. Now do something that finds us mafia?
table for two on a tv tray
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
July 16 2013 11:55 GMT
#225
Hi everybody. Just letting you know I am reading the thread.
I had a good night of sleep.
kholly
Profile Joined April 2013
United States74 Posts
July 16 2013 12:12 GMT
#226
##Vote: DocHelvetica

Was going to vote this last night, but there was no voting thread. I will vote here as it seems everyone else is voting here.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
July 16 2013 12:16 GMT
#227
wtf is this bullshit.
Total fucking retardness.

Malongo, Koshi and kholly, start playing the game.

Kholly, why is DrH scum? Also there is a voting thread.

Malongo, why is MZ being polarizing a scumtell?

Koshi, why waste 5% of your limit on a useless post? Absolutely USELESS.

Ok so scumteam is probably,
VE, sloosh, FT and other dudes. Everyone else that has posted I think is town.
Anyone that has strong disagreements for any of my reads, please explain why.
No gg, No skill.
kholly
Profile Joined April 2013
United States74 Posts
July 16 2013 12:29 GMT
#228
On July 16 2013 12:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
It's important that people are transparent about who they choose to PM. If you aren't, you better have a damn good reason not to. The only good reason for being secretive is that it would somehow reveal yourself as a blue or is necessary for your plans to catch scum.

What are we looking for? Odd player choices. PMs are our chance to put direct pressure on people we have suspicions of without going over our post limits. If someone is trying to influence your opinions/manipulate you via PM you need to call them out in thread. If someone uses PMs to buddy to you by telling you they have complete trust that you are town, that's a red alarm. I don't see why town needs to have a PM line with another townie like that. I think discussing the PM dynamics and any plans/thoughts regarding it is a good starting off point for this game.

ALSO - Look out for those who waste their post limits on empty posts/spam then make an excuse later.

For example - "I had some good points to make yesterday but I went over post limit before I wrote my case and....."



The bolded statement is what informed me that he is mafia. DoctorHelvetica is suppose to be a well known player, yet he is calling for people to roleclaim who they talk to?

On July 16 2013 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No, if someone gets anonymously pardoned the suspicion will obviously be on me. There is no reason i should have claimed as mafia. There is no reason i should have not claimed as town.


Don't believe this guy. I read the Nuclear Winter Mafia game.


On July 16 2013 21:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
wtf is this bullshit.
Total fucking retardness.

Malongo, Koshi and kholly, start playing the game.

Kholly, why is DrH scum? Also there is a voting thread.

Malongo, why is MZ being polarizing a scumtell?

Koshi, why waste 5% of your limit on a useless post? Absolutely USELESS.

Ok so scumteam is probably,
VE, sloosh, FT and other dudes. Everyone else that has posted I think is town.
Anyone that has strong disagreements for any of my reads, please explain why.


Using bad language doesn't get town anywhere. Thanks for pointing out that there is a voting thread. I didn't see it as it was far down the list. It is now bumped thanks to me. Oats, you should understand that I am playing the game. As you can tell, I am a very efficient scumhunter. Are you scared of this fake and trying to use aggression to get me to conform to the mafia ideals? I would like to say that I will not listen to the threats of terrorists. I will not be bullied. If you are mafia, you should kill you own mafia members for town credit as you always do in most of your games. Vote DH.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
July 16 2013 12:40 GMT
#229
oh god this type of player.
No gg, No skill.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
July 16 2013 12:53 GMT
#230
On July 16 2013 21:29 kholly wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No, if someone gets anonymously pardoned the suspicion will obviously be on me. There is no reason i should have claimed as mafia. There is no reason i should have not claimed as town.


Don't believe this guy. I read the Nuclear Winter Mafia game.

Does this make me mafia somehow and if it does, how exactly?

So you are voting for DrH because he is telling people to tell the thread who are they masoned with?
If that's true, what do you think of other people who agree with this idea. Me & Hapa mainly?

yamato, why are you not voting for VE if you think he is scum?
MZ, does yamatos "horrible post" make him mafia? What exactly is horrible in that post?
table for two on a tv tray
gumshoe
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada3602 Posts
July 16 2013 13:43 GMT
#231
On July 16 2013 21:29 kholly wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 12:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
It's important that people are transparent about who they choose to PM. If you aren't, you better have a damn good reason not to. The only good reason for being secretive is that it would somehow reveal yourself as a blue or is necessary for your plans to catch scum.

What are we looking for? Odd player choices. PMs are our chance to put direct pressure on people we have suspicions of without going over our post limits. If someone is trying to influence your opinions/manipulate you via PM you need to call them out in thread. If someone uses PMs to buddy to you by telling you they have complete trust that you are town, that's a red alarm. I don't see why town needs to have a PM line with another townie like that. I think discussing the PM dynamics and any plans/thoughts regarding it is a good starting off point for this game.

ALSO - Look out for those who waste their post limits on empty posts/spam then make an excuse later.

For example - "I had some good points to make yesterday but I went over post limit before I wrote my case and....."



The bolded statement is what informed me that he is mafia. DoctorHelvetica is suppose to be a well known player, yet he is calling for people to roleclaim who they talk to?

Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No, if someone gets anonymously pardoned the suspicion will obviously be on me. There is no reason i should have claimed as mafia. There is no reason i should have not claimed as town.


Don't believe this guy. I read the Nuclear Winter Mafia game.


Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 21:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
wtf is this bullshit.
Total fucking retardness.

Malongo, Koshi and kholly, start playing the game.

Kholly, why is DrH scum? Also there is a voting thread.

Malongo, why is MZ being polarizing a scumtell?

Koshi, why waste 5% of your limit on a useless post? Absolutely USELESS.

Ok so scumteam is probably,
VE, sloosh, FT and other dudes. Everyone else that has posted I think is town.
Anyone that has strong disagreements for any of my reads, please explain why.


Using bad language doesn't get town anywhere. Thanks for pointing out that there is a voting thread. I didn't see it as it was far down the list. It is now bumped thanks to me. Oats, you should understand that I am playing the game. As you can tell, I am a very efficient scumhunter. Are you scared of this fake and trying to use aggression to get me to conform to the mafia ideals? I would like to say that I will not listen to the threats of terrorists. I will not be bullied. If you are mafia, you should kill you own mafia members for town credit as you always do in most of your games. Vote DH.


I played the nuclear mafia game, and the game before with him as town. Both times he got into early conflicts like this by being transparent. Also how is the nuclear mafia game indicative of his scum play? He was town.

In regards to pms, what does mafia learn by knowing whose pming who? Absolutely nothing, the whole point of pms is that mafia can no longer benefit from certain discussions in any way. Unless scum is being pmed in which case they already know and are already privy to the conversation. How is knowing whose communicating with who more useful for scum then town? If town knows they can co-ordinate a chain, ie I mason D.H then D.H chains oats and oats can pm me through the intermediately (oats mentioned everything one pming him making him the universal intermediatery but thats dumb, and risky). Naturally though the chain requires trust like all things but when done right it allows a certain degree of thread coordination.

The only threat of being open is mafia disrupting pm relationships. This is actually a bit of a problem seeing as we only get one pm, which is why I suggest not mass masoning D.H or someone else, if you must pm an intermediatery you trust.

Other stuff. Tofu: The argument that he pre typed his first post therefore its bad is silly, he ultimately decided to post it. Which is all that really matters, from there just ask yourself, did you find his post helpful? Was it maybe scum trying to comment on setup for easy townie points? Maybe, I personally think his thoughts were helpful (ie the growing risk of the traitor, therefore best to tackle him when he reaches his personal zenith) but if your going to attack him about the post do it for valid reasons.

D.H, Im really going to be wary of people who try to spend alot of there posts early in the day cycle, which Dh has, not being able to fight back is a great excuse and paints the accuser as a villain, im sure at least one or two scum will attempt something of this vien before the games through. His commenting on pming is fine, neither her nor there, its setup stuff to get the ball rolling but the point is hes getting the ball rolling. Which is townie to an extent. What I also really like is that he pressed Tofu and then backed off when he was satisfied with tofus response people please do not leave accusations hanging in the air, they will burn posts and actively hurt town, this interaction (Tofu posts, dh pressures, tofu explains, dh absolves) is the model for how interactions should go between townies if they have a grievance with one another. I think Dh's behaviour here strikes me as a townie trying to get the most out of as little as possible, so he reads green to me for now.

Thats about it.
gumshoe bullshitting at 120%~~Prplz
kholly
Profile Joined April 2013
United States74 Posts
July 16 2013 14:05 GMT
#232
On July 16 2013 21:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 21:29 kholly wrote:
On July 16 2013 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No, if someone gets anonymously pardoned the suspicion will obviously be on me. There is no reason i should have claimed as mafia. There is no reason i should have not claimed as town.


Don't believe this guy. I read the Nuclear Winter Mafia game.

Does this make me mafia somehow and if it does, how exactly?

So you are voting for DrH because he is telling people to tell the thread who are they masoned with?
If that's true, what do you think of other people who agree with this idea. Me & Hapa mainly?

yamato, why are you not voting for VE if you think he is scum?
MZ, does yamatos "horrible post" make him mafia? What exactly is horrible in that post?


On July 16 2013 22:43 gumshoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 21:29 kholly wrote:
On July 16 2013 12:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
It's important that people are transparent about who they choose to PM. If you aren't, you better have a damn good reason not to. The only good reason for being secretive is that it would somehow reveal yourself as a blue or is necessary for your plans to catch scum.

What are we looking for? Odd player choices. PMs are our chance to put direct pressure on people we have suspicions of without going over our post limits. If someone is trying to influence your opinions/manipulate you via PM you need to call them out in thread. If someone uses PMs to buddy to you by telling you they have complete trust that you are town, that's a red alarm. I don't see why town needs to have a PM line with another townie like that. I think discussing the PM dynamics and any plans/thoughts regarding it is a good starting off point for this game.

ALSO - Look out for those who waste their post limits on empty posts/spam then make an excuse later.

For example - "I had some good points to make yesterday but I went over post limit before I wrote my case and....."



The bolded statement is what informed me that he is mafia. DoctorHelvetica is suppose to be a well known player, yet he is calling for people to roleclaim who they talk to?

On July 16 2013 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No, if someone gets anonymously pardoned the suspicion will obviously be on me. There is no reason i should have claimed as mafia. There is no reason i should have not claimed as town.


Don't believe this guy. I read the Nuclear Winter Mafia game.


On July 16 2013 21:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
wtf is this bullshit.
Total fucking retardness.

Malongo, Koshi and kholly, start playing the game.

Kholly, why is DrH scum? Also there is a voting thread.

Malongo, why is MZ being polarizing a scumtell?

Koshi, why waste 5% of your limit on a useless post? Absolutely USELESS.

Ok so scumteam is probably,
VE, sloosh, FT and other dudes. Everyone else that has posted I think is town.
Anyone that has strong disagreements for any of my reads, please explain why.


Using bad language doesn't get town anywhere. Thanks for pointing out that there is a voting thread. I didn't see it as it was far down the list. It is now bumped thanks to me. Oats, you should understand that I am playing the game. As you can tell, I am a very efficient scumhunter. Are you scared of this fake and trying to use aggression to get me to conform to the mafia ideals? I would like to say that I will not listen to the threats of terrorists. I will not be bullied. If you are mafia, you should kill you own mafia members for town credit as you always do in most of your games. Vote DH.


I played the nuclear mafia game, and the game before with him as town. Both times he got into early conflicts like this by being transparent. Also how is the nuclear mafia game indicative of his scum play? He was town.

In regards to pms, what does mafia learn by knowing whose pming who? Absolutely nothing, the whole point of pms is that mafia can no longer benefit from certain discussions in any way. Unless scum is being pmed in which case they already know and are already privy to the conversation. How is knowing whose communicating with who more useful for scum then town? If town knows they can co-ordinate a chain, ie I mason D.H then D.H chains oats and oats can pm me through the intermediately (oats mentioned everything one pming him making him the universal intermediatery but thats dumb, and risky). Naturally though the chain requires trust like all things but when done right it allows a certain degree of thread coordination.

The only threat of being open is mafia disrupting pm relationships. This is actually a bit of a problem seeing as we only get one pm, which is why I suggest not mass masoning D.H or someone else, if you must pm an intermediatery you trust.

Other stuff. Tofu: The argument that he pre typed his first post therefore its bad is silly, he ultimately decided to post it. Which is all that really matters, from there just ask yourself, did you find his post helpful? Was it maybe scum trying to comment on setup for easy townie points? Maybe, I personally think his thoughts were helpful (ie the growing risk of the traitor, therefore best to tackle him when he reaches his personal zenith) but if your going to attack him about the post do it for valid reasons.

D.H, Im really going to be wary of people who try to spend alot of there posts early in the day cycle, which Dh has, not being able to fight back is a great excuse and paints the accuser as a villain, im sure at least one or two scum will attempt something of this vien before the games through. His commenting on pming is fine, neither her nor there, its setup stuff to get the ball rolling but the point is hes getting the ball rolling. Which is townie to an extent. What I also really like is that he pressed Tofu and then backed off when he was satisfied with tofus response people please do not leave accusations hanging in the air, they will burn posts and actively hurt town, this interaction (Tofu posts, dh pressures, tofu explains, dh absolves) is the model for how interactions should go between townies if they have a grievance with one another. I think Dh's behaviour here strikes me as a townie trying to get the most out of as little as possible, so he reads green to me for now.

Thats about it.

To be clear, the only person I called scum this whole game is Dr.H. I just said I wouldn't trust rayne and I was referring to a game where he was town.

what does mafia learn by knowing whose pming who?

I won't go into details; it would only hurt town. This is an extremely deadly tool in the hands of a mafia player who knows what he is doing.

PS: Dr.H doesn't even follow his on advice.
gumshoe
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada3602 Posts
July 16 2013 14:16 GMT
#233
On July 16 2013 23:05 kholly wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 21:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On July 16 2013 21:29 kholly wrote:
On July 16 2013 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No, if someone gets anonymously pardoned the suspicion will obviously be on me. There is no reason i should have claimed as mafia. There is no reason i should have not claimed as town.


Don't believe this guy. I read the Nuclear Winter Mafia game.

Does this make me mafia somehow and if it does, how exactly?

So you are voting for DrH because he is telling people to tell the thread who are they masoned with?
If that's true, what do you think of other people who agree with this idea. Me & Hapa mainly?

yamato, why are you not voting for VE if you think he is scum?
MZ, does yamatos "horrible post" make him mafia? What exactly is horrible in that post?


Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 22:43 gumshoe wrote:
On July 16 2013 21:29 kholly wrote:
On July 16 2013 12:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
It's important that people are transparent about who they choose to PM. If you aren't, you better have a damn good reason not to. The only good reason for being secretive is that it would somehow reveal yourself as a blue or is necessary for your plans to catch scum.

What are we looking for? Odd player choices. PMs are our chance to put direct pressure on people we have suspicions of without going over our post limits. If someone is trying to influence your opinions/manipulate you via PM you need to call them out in thread. If someone uses PMs to buddy to you by telling you they have complete trust that you are town, that's a red alarm. I don't see why town needs to have a PM line with another townie like that. I think discussing the PM dynamics and any plans/thoughts regarding it is a good starting off point for this game.

ALSO - Look out for those who waste their post limits on empty posts/spam then make an excuse later.

For example - "I had some good points to make yesterday but I went over post limit before I wrote my case and....."



The bolded statement is what informed me that he is mafia. DoctorHelvetica is suppose to be a well known player, yet he is calling for people to roleclaim who they talk to?

On July 16 2013 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No, if someone gets anonymously pardoned the suspicion will obviously be on me. There is no reason i should have claimed as mafia. There is no reason i should have not claimed as town.


Don't believe this guy. I read the Nuclear Winter Mafia game.


On July 16 2013 21:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
wtf is this bullshit.
Total fucking retardness.

Malongo, Koshi and kholly, start playing the game.

Kholly, why is DrH scum? Also there is a voting thread.

Malongo, why is MZ being polarizing a scumtell?

Koshi, why waste 5% of your limit on a useless post? Absolutely USELESS.

Ok so scumteam is probably,
VE, sloosh, FT and other dudes. Everyone else that has posted I think is town.
Anyone that has strong disagreements for any of my reads, please explain why.


Using bad language doesn't get town anywhere. Thanks for pointing out that there is a voting thread. I didn't see it as it was far down the list. It is now bumped thanks to me. Oats, you should understand that I am playing the game. As you can tell, I am a very efficient scumhunter. Are you scared of this fake and trying to use aggression to get me to conform to the mafia ideals? I would like to say that I will not listen to the threats of terrorists. I will not be bullied. If you are mafia, you should kill you own mafia members for town credit as you always do in most of your games. Vote DH.


I played the nuclear mafia game, and the game before with him as town. Both times he got into early conflicts like this by being transparent. Also how is the nuclear mafia game indicative of his scum play? He was town.

In regards to pms, what does mafia learn by knowing whose pming who? Absolutely nothing, the whole point of pms is that mafia can no longer benefit from certain discussions in any way. Unless scum is being pmed in which case they already know and are already privy to the conversation. How is knowing whose communicating with who more useful for scum then town? If town knows they can co-ordinate a chain, ie I mason D.H then D.H chains oats and oats can pm me through the intermediately (oats mentioned everything one pming him making him the universal intermediatery but thats dumb, and risky). Naturally though the chain requires trust like all things but when done right it allows a certain degree of thread coordination.

The only threat of being open is mafia disrupting pm relationships. This is actually a bit of a problem seeing as we only get one pm, which is why I suggest not mass masoning D.H or someone else, if you must pm an intermediatery you trust.

Other stuff. Tofu: The argument that he pre typed his first post therefore its bad is silly, he ultimately decided to post it. Which is all that really matters, from there just ask yourself, did you find his post helpful? Was it maybe scum trying to comment on setup for easy townie points? Maybe, I personally think his thoughts were helpful (ie the growing risk of the traitor, therefore best to tackle him when he reaches his personal zenith) but if your going to attack him about the post do it for valid reasons.

D.H, Im really going to be wary of people who try to spend alot of there posts early in the day cycle, which Dh has, not being able to fight back is a great excuse and paints the accuser as a villain, im sure at least one or two scum will attempt something of this vien before the games through. His commenting on pming is fine, neither her nor there, its setup stuff to get the ball rolling but the point is hes getting the ball rolling. Which is townie to an extent. What I also really like is that he pressed Tofu and then backed off when he was satisfied with tofus response people please do not leave accusations hanging in the air, they will burn posts and actively hurt town, this interaction (Tofu posts, dh pressures, tofu explains, dh absolves) is the model for how interactions should go between townies if they have a grievance with one another. I think Dh's behaviour here strikes me as a townie trying to get the most out of as little as possible, so he reads green to me for now.

Thats about it.

To be clear, the only person I called scum this whole game is Dr.H. I just said I wouldn't trust rayne and I was referring to a game where he was town.

what does mafia learn by knowing whose pming who?

I won't go into details; it would only hurt town. This is an extremely deadly tool in the hands of a mafia player who knows what he is doing.

PS: Dr.H doesn't even follow his on advice.


I dont care what game you think your playing but were going to need more than that, transparency between townies still matters, dont breadcrumb unless your willing to spit out whatever your trying to say or pm it to the relevant party. And even despite that hiding behind pms is not townie play and I will press anyone who also feels the need to do the above in a smartass way. You are also implying that only a vote backed by an accusation matters, which is bullshit, scum want to throw as much at the fan as possible without getting any backlash and casually calling people scummy without voting them is a great way to do so. I didn't vote for him is a terrible defence. I will vote for you though until you can explain what you mean in thread or through a pm to me or someone I trust, and back up/ drop your Rayne shitflinging.

##Vote: Kholly
gumshoe bullshitting at 120%~~Prplz
kholly
Profile Joined April 2013
United States74 Posts
July 16 2013 14:24 GMT
#234
On July 16 2013 23:16 gumshoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 23:05 kholly wrote:
On July 16 2013 21:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On July 16 2013 21:29 kholly wrote:
On July 16 2013 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No, if someone gets anonymously pardoned the suspicion will obviously be on me. There is no reason i should have claimed as mafia. There is no reason i should have not claimed as town.


Don't believe this guy. I read the Nuclear Winter Mafia game.

Does this make me mafia somehow and if it does, how exactly?

So you are voting for DrH because he is telling people to tell the thread who are they masoned with?
If that's true, what do you think of other people who agree with this idea. Me & Hapa mainly?

yamato, why are you not voting for VE if you think he is scum?
MZ, does yamatos "horrible post" make him mafia? What exactly is horrible in that post?


On July 16 2013 22:43 gumshoe wrote:
On July 16 2013 21:29 kholly wrote:
On July 16 2013 12:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
It's important that people are transparent about who they choose to PM. If you aren't, you better have a damn good reason not to. The only good reason for being secretive is that it would somehow reveal yourself as a blue or is necessary for your plans to catch scum.

What are we looking for? Odd player choices. PMs are our chance to put direct pressure on people we have suspicions of without going over our post limits. If someone is trying to influence your opinions/manipulate you via PM you need to call them out in thread. If someone uses PMs to buddy to you by telling you they have complete trust that you are town, that's a red alarm. I don't see why town needs to have a PM line with another townie like that. I think discussing the PM dynamics and any plans/thoughts regarding it is a good starting off point for this game.

ALSO - Look out for those who waste their post limits on empty posts/spam then make an excuse later.

For example - "I had some good points to make yesterday but I went over post limit before I wrote my case and....."



The bolded statement is what informed me that he is mafia. DoctorHelvetica is suppose to be a well known player, yet he is calling for people to roleclaim who they talk to?

On July 16 2013 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No, if someone gets anonymously pardoned the suspicion will obviously be on me. There is no reason i should have claimed as mafia. There is no reason i should have not claimed as town.


Don't believe this guy. I read the Nuclear Winter Mafia game.


On July 16 2013 21:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
wtf is this bullshit.
Total fucking retardness.

Malongo, Koshi and kholly, start playing the game.

Kholly, why is DrH scum? Also there is a voting thread.

Malongo, why is MZ being polarizing a scumtell?

Koshi, why waste 5% of your limit on a useless post? Absolutely USELESS.

Ok so scumteam is probably,
VE, sloosh, FT and other dudes. Everyone else that has posted I think is town.
Anyone that has strong disagreements for any of my reads, please explain why.


Using bad language doesn't get town anywhere. Thanks for pointing out that there is a voting thread. I didn't see it as it was far down the list. It is now bumped thanks to me. Oats, you should understand that I am playing the game. As you can tell, I am a very efficient scumhunter. Are you scared of this fake and trying to use aggression to get me to conform to the mafia ideals? I would like to say that I will not listen to the threats of terrorists. I will not be bullied. If you are mafia, you should kill you own mafia members for town credit as you always do in most of your games. Vote DH.


I played the nuclear mafia game, and the game before with him as town. Both times he got into early conflicts like this by being transparent. Also how is the nuclear mafia game indicative of his scum play? He was town.

In regards to pms, what does mafia learn by knowing whose pming who? Absolutely nothing, the whole point of pms is that mafia can no longer benefit from certain discussions in any way. Unless scum is being pmed in which case they already know and are already privy to the conversation. How is knowing whose communicating with who more useful for scum then town? If town knows they can co-ordinate a chain, ie I mason D.H then D.H chains oats and oats can pm me through the intermediately (oats mentioned everything one pming him making him the universal intermediatery but thats dumb, and risky). Naturally though the chain requires trust like all things but when done right it allows a certain degree of thread coordination.

The only threat of being open is mafia disrupting pm relationships. This is actually a bit of a problem seeing as we only get one pm, which is why I suggest not mass masoning D.H or someone else, if you must pm an intermediatery you trust.

Other stuff. Tofu: The argument that he pre typed his first post therefore its bad is silly, he ultimately decided to post it. Which is all that really matters, from there just ask yourself, did you find his post helpful? Was it maybe scum trying to comment on setup for easy townie points? Maybe, I personally think his thoughts were helpful (ie the growing risk of the traitor, therefore best to tackle him when he reaches his personal zenith) but if your going to attack him about the post do it for valid reasons.

D.H, Im really going to be wary of people who try to spend alot of there posts early in the day cycle, which Dh has, not being able to fight back is a great excuse and paints the accuser as a villain, im sure at least one or two scum will attempt something of this vien before the games through. His commenting on pming is fine, neither her nor there, its setup stuff to get the ball rolling but the point is hes getting the ball rolling. Which is townie to an extent. What I also really like is that he pressed Tofu and then backed off when he was satisfied with tofus response people please do not leave accusations hanging in the air, they will burn posts and actively hurt town, this interaction (Tofu posts, dh pressures, tofu explains, dh absolves) is the model for how interactions should go between townies if they have a grievance with one another. I think Dh's behaviour here strikes me as a townie trying to get the most out of as little as possible, so he reads green to me for now.

Thats about it.

To be clear, the only person I called scum this whole game is Dr.H. I just said I wouldn't trust rayne and I was referring to a game where he was town.

what does mafia learn by knowing whose pming who?

I won't go into details; it would only hurt town. This is an extremely deadly tool in the hands of a mafia player who knows what he is doing.

PS: Dr.H doesn't even follow his on advice.


I dont care what game you think your playing but were going to need more than that, transparency between townies still matters, dont breadcrumb unless your willing to spit out whatever your trying to say or pm it to the relevant party. And even despite that hiding behind pms is not townie play and I will press anyone who also feels the need to do the above in a smartass way. You are also implying that only a vote backed by an accusation matters, which is bullshit, scum want to throw as much at the fan as possible without getting any backlash and casually calling people scummy without voting them is a great way to do so. I didn't vote for him is a terrible defence. I will vote for you though until you can explain what you mean in thread or through a pm to me or someone I trust, and back up/ drop your Rayne shitflinging.

##Vote: Kholly


What do you think about the concept that scum can only mason 1 person as opposed to town being about to mason two?

Oh and don't worry, I'm talking to town.
gumshoe
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada3602 Posts
July 16 2013 14:45 GMT
#235
On July 16 2013 23:24 kholly wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 23:16 gumshoe wrote:
On July 16 2013 23:05 kholly wrote:
On July 16 2013 21:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On July 16 2013 21:29 kholly wrote:
On July 16 2013 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No, if someone gets anonymously pardoned the suspicion will obviously be on me. There is no reason i should have claimed as mafia. There is no reason i should have not claimed as town.


Don't believe this guy. I read the Nuclear Winter Mafia game.

Does this make me mafia somehow and if it does, how exactly?

So you are voting for DrH because he is telling people to tell the thread who are they masoned with?
If that's true, what do you think of other people who agree with this idea. Me & Hapa mainly?

yamato, why are you not voting for VE if you think he is scum?
MZ, does yamatos "horrible post" make him mafia? What exactly is horrible in that post?


On July 16 2013 22:43 gumshoe wrote:
On July 16 2013 21:29 kholly wrote:
On July 16 2013 12:43 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
It's important that people are transparent about who they choose to PM. If you aren't, you better have a damn good reason not to. The only good reason for being secretive is that it would somehow reveal yourself as a blue or is necessary for your plans to catch scum.

What are we looking for? Odd player choices. PMs are our chance to put direct pressure on people we have suspicions of without going over our post limits. If someone is trying to influence your opinions/manipulate you via PM you need to call them out in thread. If someone uses PMs to buddy to you by telling you they have complete trust that you are town, that's a red alarm. I don't see why town needs to have a PM line with another townie like that. I think discussing the PM dynamics and any plans/thoughts regarding it is a good starting off point for this game.

ALSO - Look out for those who waste their post limits on empty posts/spam then make an excuse later.

For example - "I had some good points to make yesterday but I went over post limit before I wrote my case and....."



The bolded statement is what informed me that he is mafia. DoctorHelvetica is suppose to be a well known player, yet he is calling for people to roleclaim who they talk to?

On July 16 2013 17:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No, if someone gets anonymously pardoned the suspicion will obviously be on me. There is no reason i should have claimed as mafia. There is no reason i should have not claimed as town.


Don't believe this guy. I read the Nuclear Winter Mafia game.


On July 16 2013 21:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
wtf is this bullshit.
Total fucking retardness.

Malongo, Koshi and kholly, start playing the game.

Kholly, why is DrH scum? Also there is a voting thread.

Malongo, why is MZ being polarizing a scumtell?

Koshi, why waste 5% of your limit on a useless post? Absolutely USELESS.

Ok so scumteam is probably,
VE, sloosh, FT and other dudes. Everyone else that has posted I think is town.
Anyone that has strong disagreements for any of my reads, please explain why.


Using bad language doesn't get town anywhere. Thanks for pointing out that there is a voting thread. I didn't see it as it was far down the list. It is now bumped thanks to me. Oats, you should understand that I am playing the game. As you can tell, I am a very efficient scumhunter. Are you scared of this fake and trying to use aggression to get me to conform to the mafia ideals? I would like to say that I will not listen to the threats of terrorists. I will not be bullied. If you are mafia, you should kill you own mafia members for town credit as you always do in most of your games. Vote DH.


I played the nuclear mafia game, and the game before with him as town. Both times he got into early conflicts like this by being transparent. Also how is the nuclear mafia game indicative of his scum play? He was town.

In regards to pms, what does mafia learn by knowing whose pming who? Absolutely nothing, the whole point of pms is that mafia can no longer benefit from certain discussions in any way. Unless scum is being pmed in which case they already know and are already privy to the conversation. How is knowing whose communicating with who more useful for scum then town? If town knows they can co-ordinate a chain, ie I mason D.H then D.H chains oats and oats can pm me through the intermediately (oats mentioned everything one pming him making him the universal intermediatery but thats dumb, and risky). Naturally though the chain requires trust like all things but when done right it allows a certain degree of thread coordination.

The only threat of being open is mafia disrupting pm relationships. This is actually a bit of a problem seeing as we only get one pm, which is why I suggest not mass masoning D.H or someone else, if you must pm an intermediatery you trust.

Other stuff. Tofu: The argument that he pre typed his first post therefore its bad is silly, he ultimately decided to post it. Which is all that really matters, from there just ask yourself, did you find his post helpful? Was it maybe scum trying to comment on setup for easy townie points? Maybe, I personally think his thoughts were helpful (ie the growing risk of the traitor, therefore best to tackle him when he reaches his personal zenith) but if your going to attack him about the post do it for valid reasons.

D.H, Im really going to be wary of people who try to spend alot of there posts early in the day cycle, which Dh has, not being able to fight back is a great excuse and paints the accuser as a villain, im sure at least one or two scum will attempt something of this vien before the games through. His commenting on pming is fine, neither her nor there, its setup stuff to get the ball rolling but the point is hes getting the ball rolling. Which is townie to an extent. What I also really like is that he pressed Tofu and then backed off when he was satisfied with tofus response people please do not leave accusations hanging in the air, they will burn posts and actively hurt town, this interaction (Tofu posts, dh pressures, tofu explains, dh absolves) is the model for how interactions should go between townies if they have a grievance with one another. I think Dh's behaviour here strikes me as a townie trying to get the most out of as little as possible, so he reads green to me for now.

Thats about it.

To be clear, the only person I called scum this whole game is Dr.H. I just said I wouldn't trust rayne and I was referring to a game where he was town.

what does mafia learn by knowing whose pming who?

I won't go into details; it would only hurt town. This is an extremely deadly tool in the hands of a mafia player who knows what he is doing.

PS: Dr.H doesn't even follow his on advice.


I dont care what game you think your playing but were going to need more than that, transparency between townies still matters, dont breadcrumb unless your willing to spit out whatever your trying to say or pm it to the relevant party. And even despite that hiding behind pms is not townie play and I will press anyone who also feels the need to do the above in a smartass way. You are also implying that only a vote backed by an accusation matters, which is bullshit, scum want to throw as much at the fan as possible without getting any backlash and casually calling people scummy without voting them is a great way to do so. I didn't vote for him is a terrible defence. I will vote for you though until you can explain what you mean in thread or through a pm to me or someone I trust, and back up/ drop your Rayne shitflinging.

##Vote: Kholly


What do you think about the concept that scum can only mason 1 person as opposed to town being about to mason two?

Oh and don't worry, I'm talking to town.


I hate to waste your posts but sorry I'm as thick as a castle wall XD I assume scum can mason 2 people as well, I dont know why they wouldn't be able to seeing as that would be a cheap way to distinguish town from scum, basically scum have all the mechanical tools to look like town is my assumption. Regarding some other matters.

Post giving: If someone runs out posts whose under assault we should not hesitate to donate some of our own posts to them, having a one sided accusation is bads and makes it really easy for town to mislynch.

Oats. In general I've found his posting so far to be really shallow, hes burning through his bank fast and part of me suspects it might be because he wants to.

Man im totally gonna blow my post count in like the first 3 hours.


This is indicative of that scum play I mentioned earlier, wherein they waste posts on purpose. He wastes part of a post to let us know that hes going to post in an anti town manner.

Also this.

Koshi, why waste 5% of your limit on a useless post? Absolutely USELESS.


one of his later posts is just this

oh god this type of player.


So a hypocrite I suppose. Whats also interesting is he shotguns alot of questions as opposed to trying to have a dialogue with one or two players then moving on.

Malongo, Koshi and kholly, start playing the game.

Kholly, why is DrH scum? Also there is a voting thread.

Malongo, why is MZ being polarizing a scumtell?

Koshi, why waste 5% of your limit on a useless post? Absolutely USELESS.


Rayn, so if you are scum and you use your role, no one knows.
Right. Sounds like your claim isnt actually a good thing.


Who are you looking to be scum hapa. You can retract your statement at any time, but you have GOT to have some inkling


Yeah hapa, whos scum?


Tofu, have you played with a traitor mechanic before? If so, what did you gain from that? If not, why are you focusing on the traitor?


VE wtf? Tell me how wasting posts arguing with Vayne is scummy? Have you played with Vayne before?
Tell me how what he did isnt pressuring Vayne.
tell me how scummy you are!

Thoughts on FT VE?


MZ, so is DrH scummy?


Alot of these questions are of dubious worth, they'd be fine in a regular mafia game but here it looks like Oats is trying to burn through all of towns posts early on.

Also this.

Everyone, name 1 scumread. OR DIE!


Again forcing posts in a broad stroke manner.

FOS: Oats
gumshoe bullshitting at 120%~~Prplz
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
July 16 2013 15:08 GMT
#236
You give me more credit than I deserve Gumshoe, this supposed plan of mine is brilliant for wasting posts.

From what you have seen of how I play, is this consistant of my town or scum play Gumshoe?

Also
D.H, Im really going to be wary of people who try to spend alot of there posts early in the day cycle, which Dh has, not being able to fight back is a great excuse and paints the accuser as a villain, im sure at least one or two scum will attempt something of this vien before the games through. His commenting on pming is fine, neither her nor there, its setup stuff to get the ball rolling but the point is hes getting the ball rolling. Which is townie to an extent. What I also really like is that he pressed Tofu and then backed off when he was satisfied with tofus response people please do not leave accusations hanging in the air, they will burn posts and actively hurt town, this interaction (Tofu posts, dh pressures, tofu explains, dh absolves) is the model for how interactions should go between townies if they have a grievance with one another. I think Dh's behaviour here strikes me as a townie trying to get the most out of as little as possible, so he reads green to me for now.

This post is completely full of crap. This is Tofu's last post and DrH didnt post after that.
On July 16 2013 15:14 FirmTofu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 14:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Oh I found his post, yeah he's not saying no one should mason nor is he saying he is refusing to mason which is a really dumb thing to do. Now you're defending Vayne by using misdirection/misinterpretation! Interesting!
a
slo0sh - don't use mason if you don't know what you're doing. I disagree but there have been terrible consequences for this (coagulation claiming medic to me day 1 of Salem Mafia, me outing every single blue to the godfather in the same game, etc.)

slo0sh is in the SAME post talking about how PMs are invaluable for forming scumhunting circles which is a townie way of looking at it. A single sentence in a single post being a "concerted effort to discourage PMing" is really REALLY misrepresenting what sloOsh is saying in a completely obvious way.

I have so many problems with this post. It is a completely disproportionate reaction to my prod.

Let's address the points first.
You say I'm defending Vayne. This is not true. I was pointing out the inconsistencies in your behavior. You accuse Vayne, but you aren't addressing a similar scum-tell in another player. This indicates that you are picking and choosing your targets, instead of actually scumhunting.

My point had nothing to do with the topic of PM's, I was addressing your behavior specifically and how you are specifically ignoring the slOosh while pursuing Vayne for reasons that should implicate both of them.

This post of yours is digging you into a deeper hole. You made a sarcastic post saying you never even read slOosh's post, but you come back and vehemently say he is a town read for you. If you never actually read slOosh's post, why do have such an aggressive, belligerent response to my question? As someone who had never read slOosh's post, you sure sound like you formed a very strong position on him.

I find this all too convenient. I think you lied about not having read his post. Am I correct?

I dont see how is this resolved in the slightest. I assume you think FT is town, is that right from this quote.
this interaction (Tofu posts, dh pressures, tofu explains, dh absolves) is the model for how interactions should go between townies if they have a grievance with one another.

So talk about how my response to FT's post is wrong please.

On July 16 2013 17:23 Oatsmaster wrote:

FT's post is totally bullshit.

Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 15:14 FirmTofu wrote:
I have so many problems with this post. It is a completely disproportionate reaction to my prod.

Let's address the points first.
You say I'm defending Vayne. This is not true. I was pointing out the inconsistencies in your behavior. You accuse Vayne, but you aren't addressing a similar scum-tell in another player. This indicates that you are picking and choosing your targets, instead of actually scumhunting.

My point had nothing to do with the topic of PM's, I was addressing your behavior specifically and how you are specifically ignoring the slOosh while pursuing Vayne for reasons that should implicate both of them.

This post of yours is digging you into a deeper hole. You made a sarcastic post saying you never even read slOosh's post, but you come back and vehemently say he is a town read for you. If you never actually read slOosh's post, why do have such an aggressive, belligerent response to my question? As someone who had never read slOosh's post, you sure sound like you formed a very strong position on him.

I find this all too convenient. I think you lied about not having read his post. Am I correct?

FT says he isnt defending Vayne but slams DrH for the exact same thing he himself is doing.???
He seems overly concerned about people lying. Scumtell because no one intentionally lies and its easier to attack town on a supposed lie and not actual content.
Also, he is saying that vayne and sloosh are saying similar things. They arent by far. Sloosh is saying dont use it if you dont know how to. Vayne is saying he WONT use it. Nope, totally different. One is intentionally playing badly(vayne), One is possibly bad advice but with limited masoning, Im inclined to agree with sloosh.
No gg, No skill.
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
July 16 2013 15:23 GMT
#237
Okay guys, caught up on the thread from my phone. I'm currently building a circuit at work so that means I'm not working at my computer most of the day. However, I'm not a very spammy player at the best of times, so I don't expect the post limit to really affect me very much; I'm hoping that it's main effect will be to force certain other players in this game to consolidate their posts, which will make the game way easier for me to keep up with.

Regarding the pm policy discussion, I'm torn on several fronts. I like the idea of being open about who we are mason ing and masoned to, as suggested by drh or someone earlier, since it allows connection analysis and also since we can put pressure on people who were masoned to dead townies or scum later in the game. However, if people mason strong townreads as gas been suggested, and then are open about it, we have all the disadvantages of revealing our townreads in any other game - telling scum who to kill. ATM I think the advantages of openness outweigh, so I would caution people against mason ing super strong town reads. Instead I think we should use our masons on either Avon reads or null reads to try to better understand people; if they become town reads because of the Pam's then you can discuss the game in secret, and it they become scum reads then awesome lynch them.

In that vein I'm strongly considering mason ing oatsmaster. His first posts seem quite scummy to me. The pressure on hapa to produce scum reads like seven posts into the game seems manufactured. However, I'm aware that I have a history in two or three or more games of going after oatsmaster when we are actually both town; I'm not always wrong about him I think, and each game it's a different behavior of his that I find scummy, and every time I feel like it's for a good reason, but sometimes I'm wrong. The only pause I have is that oatsmaster seems like he's already been masoned by several people, and if one town person becomes a huge mason nexus then they're an easy target for scum to disrupt our communication. So I'll think about that.

One other thing - these newbies are being pretty weirdly aggressive, not sure why. Kolly is apparently voting drh because of a policy disagreement, not sure how serious this is. If he sticks to this read I'd say it seems manufactured, but it's possible he thinks he's doing a "pressure vote". I want to see how this develops, if he backs off then how he justifies it will be very important. As for malongo, he has like three posts so well have to see where that goes, but ATM there's little reasoning for his vote, which makes me suspicious as well; plus the fact that he's throwing his limited posts around with little content.

I also think the scum reads on sloosh are wrong, or at least premature. I actually agree with him that a dead thread is bad for town and something worth avoiding. It can make it easier for scum to hide from the majority of the thread. Fooling one or two people is much easier than fooling a whole group IMO. I disagree with sloosh's conclusion that we should avoid using our pms though; I think we just need to understand that as townies it's important for us to see the thread as the main part of the game and use pms to help that, and to pressure people who don't. I don't like that his post is only about setup rather than reads, but hopefully in his next 19 posts he will fix that up.

I also want to call out VA and ask for some discussion of reads rather than setup. That's the best way IMO to tell apart whether he's actually scum hiding from pms as some believe or if he's a stubborn townie with a cause.

Also question for discussion: should we save some pm choices for later in the game? When we have more developed reads and pushing people for information and discussing the game outside the thread will probably be more useful?

(1/20)
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
July 16 2013 15:54 GMT
#238
On July 16 2013 14:00 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 13:48 slOosh wrote:
Hey guys.

If people are unsure about how to mason, they should just avoid using it. Worst thing we can do is have all the discussion going on in PM land and nothing to go off of someone's alignment other than their mason's read on them.

On July 16 2013 13:26 Hapahauli wrote:
Masoning strong town-reads can be a pretty bad idea under certain circumstnaces. For example, if one of your strong town-reads is a newbie without much scum-hunting clout, there's no point in masoning him. Similarly, you want to avoid a situation where everyone masons one player thereby wasting a whole bunch of town's resources.

How do you propose building up scum-hunting circles otherwise? Or was that a semi-joke?

Circles don't have to necessarily form around one player. That being said, everyone masoning someone like a town Sandro probably wouldn't be all that bad. I'd have to think about this some more.

I don't think they shouldn't form around one player, it's too easily countered and dangerous if they are scum. I was thinking wheels of, say three players, and then linking the wheels slowly.

Still don't understand how you can build circles by masoning only scum reads though.


On July 16 2013 14:05 FirmTofu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 13:48 slOosh wrote:
Hey guys.

If people are unsure about how to mason, they should just avoid using it. Worst thing we can do is have all the discussion going on in PM land and nothing to go off of someone's alignment other than their mason's read on them.

While Vayne made a personal choice not to mason, you seem to be directing people to avoid using it. Do you have an inherent motivation to discourage people from masoning? A discussion in "PM land" doesn't prevent discussions from happening in thread. I can't see why you would recommend people not to mason at all.

What?

I said if people are unsure, they should avoid it because it can cause more problems than be of benefit. How am I making a "concerted effort to discourage people from using PMs"?

On July 16 2013 20:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 14:05 FirmTofu wrote:
On July 16 2013 13:48 slOosh wrote:
Hey guys.

If people are unsure about how to mason, they should just avoid using it. Worst thing we can do is have all the discussion going on in PM land and nothing to go off of someone's alignment other than their mason's read on them.

While Vayne made a personal choice not to mason, you seem to be directing people to avoid using it. Do you have an inherent motivation to discourage people from masoning? A discussion in "PM land" doesn't prevent discussions from happening in thread. I can't see why you would recommend people not to mason at all.


I actually second this. Sloosh answer.
This is really stupid, everyone should mason. There is no reason not to. Why do you think there is?
##Vote: slOosh

Show me where I said no one should mason.
gumshoe
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada3602 Posts
July 16 2013 16:02 GMT
#239
On July 17 2013 00:08 Oatsmaster wrote:
You give me more credit than I deserve Gumshoe, this supposed plan of mine is brilliant for wasting posts.

From what you have seen of how I play, is this consistant of my town or scum play Gumshoe?

Also
Show nested quote +
D.H, Im really going to be wary of people who try to spend alot of there posts early in the day cycle, which Dh has, not being able to fight back is a great excuse and paints the accuser as a villain, im sure at least one or two scum will attempt something of this vien before the games through. His commenting on pming is fine, neither her nor there, its setup stuff to get the ball rolling but the point is hes getting the ball rolling. Which is townie to an extent. What I also really like is that he pressed Tofu and then backed off when he was satisfied with tofus response people please do not leave accusations hanging in the air, they will burn posts and actively hurt town, this interaction (Tofu posts, dh pressures, tofu explains, dh absolves) is the model for how interactions should go between townies if they have a grievance with one another. I think Dh's behaviour here strikes me as a townie trying to get the most out of as little as possible, so he reads green to me for now.

This post is completely full of crap. This is Tofu's last post and DrH didnt post after that.
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 15:14 FirmTofu wrote:
On July 16 2013 14:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Oh I found his post, yeah he's not saying no one should mason nor is he saying he is refusing to mason which is a really dumb thing to do. Now you're defending Vayne by using misdirection/misinterpretation! Interesting!
a
slo0sh - don't use mason if you don't know what you're doing. I disagree but there have been terrible consequences for this (coagulation claiming medic to me day 1 of Salem Mafia, me outing every single blue to the godfather in the same game, etc.)

slo0sh is in the SAME post talking about how PMs are invaluable for forming scumhunting circles which is a townie way of looking at it. A single sentence in a single post being a "concerted effort to discourage PMing" is really REALLY misrepresenting what sloOsh is saying in a completely obvious way.

I have so many problems with this post. It is a completely disproportionate reaction to my prod.

Let's address the points first.
You say I'm defending Vayne. This is not true. I was pointing out the inconsistencies in your behavior. You accuse Vayne, but you aren't addressing a similar scum-tell in another player. This indicates that you are picking and choosing your targets, instead of actually scumhunting.

My point had nothing to do with the topic of PM's, I was addressing your behavior specifically and how you are specifically ignoring the slOosh while pursuing Vayne for reasons that should implicate both of them.

This post of yours is digging you into a deeper hole. You made a sarcastic post saying you never even read slOosh's post, but you come back and vehemently say he is a town read for you. If you never actually read slOosh's post, why do have such an aggressive, belligerent response to my question? As someone who had never read slOosh's post, you sure sound like you formed a very strong position on him.

I find this all too convenient. I think you lied about not having read his post. Am I correct?

I dont see how is this resolved in the slightest. I assume you think FT is town, is that right from this quote.
Show nested quote +
this interaction (Tofu posts, dh pressures, tofu explains, dh absolves) is the model for how interactions should go between townies if they have a grievance with one another.

So talk about how my response to FT's post is wrong please.

Show nested quote +
On July 16 2013 17:23 Oatsmaster wrote:

FT's post is totally bullshit.

On July 16 2013 15:14 FirmTofu wrote:
I have so many problems with this post. It is a completely disproportionate reaction to my prod.

Let's address the points first.
You say I'm defending Vayne. This is not true. I was pointing out the inconsistencies in your behavior. You accuse Vayne, but you aren't addressing a similar scum-tell in another player. This indicates that you are picking and choosing your targets, instead of actually scumhunting.

My point had nothing to do with the topic of PM's, I was addressing your behavior specifically and how you are specifically ignoring the slOosh while pursuing Vayne for reasons that should implicate both of them.

This post of yours is digging you into a deeper hole. You made a sarcastic post saying you never even read slOosh's post, but you come back and vehemently say he is a town read for you. If you never actually read slOosh's post, why do have such an aggressive, belligerent response to my question? As someone who had never read slOosh's post, you sure sound like you formed a very strong position on him.

I find this all too convenient. I think you lied about not having read his post. Am I correct?

FT says he isnt defending Vayne but slams DrH for the exact same thing he himself is doing.???
He seems overly concerned about people lying. Scumtell because no one intentionally lies and its easier to attack town on a supposed lie and not actual content.
Also, he is saying that vayne and sloosh are saying similar things. They arent by far. Sloosh is saying dont use it if you dont know how to. Vayne is saying he WONT use it. Nope, totally different. One is intentionally playing badly(vayne), One is possibly bad advice but with limited masoning, Im inclined to agree with sloosh.


Adressing the bolded parts.

1: We have never played together im a game where your were scum, or in a game with limited posts, your meta has nothing to do with the pattern I brought up which may or may not be real. Unless your telling me your too stupid period to play in a way that makes sense as scum in this unique setup, which I'm just not going for. I have seen you play intelligently, you have established that capacity and therefore I cant dismiss anything on account of meta.

2: I used the resolution argument to defend Drh, not Tufo, Drh's last point was an effort to resolve a thread he deemed closed, in this setup I find that townie, Tufo's own actions be they wise or unwise have nothing to do with that argument.

3: Similarly I found Drh town based on that interaction not Tofu, as for Tofu hes null to me, I just find the argument that he prewrote a first post therefore scum to be dumb, his decision to post something that I found helpful is the reason I might find him town at all.

In general if you are town Oats I ask that you focus your questions, this shotgun approach wastes both your own and everyone else writing space. Also if they dont adress a question you ask, please follow up as opposed to moving on to the next dozen questions. Because when you do go back and point out how somebody hasn't answered you, they can just say that no one has, and you've asked so many questions its easy to have missed one or that because you asked so many you have devalued thier adressal value.

gumshoe bullshitting at 120%~~Prplz
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21972 Posts
July 16 2013 16:03 GMT
#240
Sgt. Vivax and his lickspittle constable Guido arrive in a car. Two bodies lay covered by tarpaulins in the sandy mediterranean dunes. A group of people are shouting at each other.

"What's all this mess about, sarge?"

"Somebody killed RoL, we are looking for the killers"

"But sarge, they have no reason to hide."

"Well, they also killed Ver, and they want to kill us and each of these shouting idiots."

"That changes everything then. What's the course of action sarge?"

"Do you see what these people are doing? They hold onto every little bit of evidence they can find, always looking for anything that could be interpreted as scummy, and the longer it takes them to find something they can use against someone else, the more laughable their accusations become, until eventually, a poor soul gets lynched for being the loudest and most passionate about his wish for vengeance."

"Wow sarge that's so interesting, what do you call it when they do that?"

"Day one, idiot. We should start observing people closest to the scene of the crime. Look over there, do you see that dirty Hippy?"

"What about him?"

"He is trying to be helpful, wants to invite people to his trailer to talk with him privately, and claims that it's dangerous to talk to the killers."

"But sarge, pulling the killers into a conversation is exactly what we want."

"Precisely, the hippie thinks of avoiding threats, not finding the killer. Note him."

"Done; sarge, who is that shouting guy?"

"Seems like a Doctor, tryhard, and innocent, he clearly wants to find the killer. We shouldn't bother about what he wrote so far and keep going our own ways, that guy is not one of them."

"The hippie and kholly seem to be of different opinion."

"More is foul about the hippie than just his smell. Kholly speaks of a trap, I don't know what he means and he doesn't explicate it. Write down."

"Aye, sarge. Look, there's a stoner among them too."

"Jesus, not that guy again. He's always so hard to rule out among the suspects. I just hope that he'll try to be useful during this case. Might want to take him out tonight."

"I'd never have imagined you were into stoners, sir."

"I'd never have imagined you were a brain amputee. I mean to kill him. Don't ask."

"Sir.."

"Shut up, I skipped the others, look, right on the last page, there's the guy who thinks he's Rambo, he talks in a lengthy way about his intentions, apologizes for his future absence. He claims that the guy with the huge amount of cookies is a killer and wants to talk to him privately, but he doesn't directly ask him questions there. He rather uses it to justify his choice to invite him to a private discussion, and the scumread takes a secondary spot in his post."

"I agree. It looks like he's simply trying to find something to talk about rather than stick to what should be important, had he the intention to find the killers.
I got it. During the day we take out the hippie and especially the Rambo and the special squad will get rid of that pesky stoner."

"Standard police work, Guido. But remember who gives the orders here."

##Vote StrongAndBig
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