EPTHi! :D
Edit: If this hasn't started yet, ofc. I feel like I've missed it XD
Doctor Who Mafia
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Hi! :D Edit: If this hasn't started yet, ofc. I feel like I've missed it XD | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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I don't have any unique insight to add. I'm not really ready to place a vote, and I don't feel like I've seen anything I could point at and say, "Yes, I find this scummy." My D1 vote is probably going to the person who I have least reason to believe is town, but I won't be able to actively participate and figure out who that is until I'm done with my last exam in a few hours. Oh, as for mechanics, etc. I'm down with the "reveal our movements shortly before the daypost" plan. It definitely seems best to at least find where we all are on the map, try to decrease the information advantage of the angels. | ||
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mkfuba07
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Dunno, people seemed concerned as to what was going on with me, so I figured I'd fill you in. And my options were just being honest and saying that no one sticks out to me thus far as incredibly scummy, not saying anything at all until I pop in with a vote a few hours before the night post, or elaborating thoroughly on my thought process while reading 13 pages of mafia. I assure you, you don't want to know everything that goes through my head while I'm reading mafia threads (and anyway, instead of considering what I said useless, it would all be considered "fluff"). On May 16 2013 19:29 Oatsmaster wrote: yes. 13 pages. And he has no reads. Like where is the town motivation for posting this post? It does not help town at all. At all. So he says he has reads. But oh man I dont really wanna share them cause they are MINE, MINE!!!!!!. Also he overexplains his acceptance of the obviously great plan. Having played with me before, expecting me to have any confident reads D1 even without exams and projects due over the first two days of a game is expecting a bit too much. The motivation for the post was that I know exactly what happens when I enter a thread after lurking/being inactive for a while, that I don't handle it well, and that it's much better to take care of it without an imminent night post looming a short while away. It helps town to not have a player jump into the game within an hour of the deadline and plop a vote down on someone with little reasoning. It helps town to let me get this load of "fluff" out of the way before we have to make a final decision for D1. Oh, and I thought I under-explained myself regarding the plan, so I'm glad I didn't go into more detail o.O (You also say that I say I both have, and do not have reads. You should really decide what I've said before you say I said it.) On May 16 2013 20:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Um nope, mafia are known for posting a good looking/longish post not saying anything cause they dont actually need to scumhunt. That looks a lot like a scum first post after not being there. Good thing I posted a pretty short, "useless" post, then. And if you can find anyone in this thread that thinks that post was "good looking", then I'll vote for myself right now (though that's probably against the rules...). This post, however, is pretty longish, and has fancy quotes in it, so you might even consider it good looking. Oh god, am... am I an angel? Anyway, I'm gonna try intruding into other peoples' discussions now, because I still have no idea how to scumhunt without someone else getting the ball rolling. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On May 16 2013 21:38 phagga wrote: Vivax, Oats, what do you guys think of fferyltt? I know I'm not vivax or oats, but fferyllt's agreement with BH was one of the few things that caught my attention earlier. The fact that he agreed without any reasoning from BH (who I assumed had some kind of meta-related knowledge) and without providing any reasoning himself (when he, himself, has said that he has no meta knowledge yet) felt like trying to participate without actually participating. And while zephirdd and marv saw his last post as enough to alleviate suspicion of him, I saw it much the way you did. I have two problems, though. The first is that he does come from mafiascum (I believe) and I once tried playing on other forums and the play just felt distinctly different than it is here. Makes me wonder if it's scum avoiding participating or new town (on TL) not knowing how to participate. The second is more of a personal one, since I probably allow my interpretation of tone to interfere with logic more than I should, but the way he nonchalantly responded to Zephirdd's post (here) makes me feel like he's town, simply because I feel an angel would be more concerned with his own survival. Especially as the player with arguably the least knowledge of other players in the game. At least, were I in his position, I'd probably feel less... aloof? That's probably not the right word, but I think it gets the point across. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On May 16 2013 22:16 Vivax wrote: I don't have anything concrete for them, I was trying to start some general musing about strategy. There might be a pattern to use to maximize the effectiveness of people being close to each other, the movement they make, the direction they face. And by pattern I mean, something everyone can agree on using, maybe cause there is a constellation on the board that encourages the use of a specific common strategy. If we try to use a pattern (i.e. all use similar movements in order to manipulate B and J into some potentially favorable position), then we won't know who everyone is tomorrow, as we will all have used the same movements. The only way I could see this seeming superior to the original plan was if you already know where everyone is and it slipped your mind that the rest of us didn't. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On May 16 2013 22:26 Oatsmaster wrote: fferyllt. Lets see, his only contribution so far is echoing BH's zeph read. And posting a list post. I like that list post though, he points out that UoN is whiteknighting him, something I think scum wouldnt say. Why attack someone who is defending you? So yeah town side of null. About Phagga, I really am liking his recent attacking dudes, asking questions, getting fucking off talking about setup. I could see scum pointing out any action that a townie could accidentally take that would make him appear scummy to others. Actually, it's pretty much their main source of "scumreads". | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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On May 16 2013 22:41 Oatsmaster wrote: well no, no one really looks at 'whiteknighting' here. Like if it was a legit defense, fine. If not, SMASH YOUR FACE IN. Yeah. And sentinel didnt really get pressured on that. Think of the mindset. A townie wants to find scum. 'hey this dude defended me for no reason. Why? I think its scummy' Scum wants to stay alive. 'Oh good someone thinks im town'. Yeah. I guess I just see too many possibilities, and can't decide which are more likely than the others. I follow your reasoning, but I don't think it necessarily invalidates mine. Like, I've seen enough people called scummy for "defending" someone only to have those people flip town, that I think if I were scum it would occur to me to call out a townie for "defending" me. | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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It also potentially outs puppets for making Angel favoured moves, or making improper reports. What are the improper reports you're referring to? | ||
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mkfuba07
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Pre-edit: Ugh, I apparently did my vote-checking wrong. I don't want a no-lynch either, though I have few thoughts on deconduo aside from the fact that his case on ghost did seem like low hanging fruit. I'll vote decon to avoid the no-lynch, but I would definitely prefer vivax... ##Vote: deconduo | ||
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mkfuba07
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and do we post our moves now, or after the deadline? | ||
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mkfuba07
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Anyway, can we post our moves still? | ||
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mkfuba07
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gg marv, vivax~ | ||
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mkfuba07
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On May 17 2013 06:27 Blazinghand wrote: I'm E, since E moved forwards 2 and sc;utted crabwise 3 Didn't E move forward 3 and left 2? | ||
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mkfuba07
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Yeah, my bad. His second one had them backwards, so I got confused. | ||
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mkfuba07
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B = oats or sharrant C = phagga E = Blazinghand F = Sentinel G = Zephirdd H = ghost I = mkfuba K = fferyllt L = oats or sharrant Here's my updated list, in case anyone doesn't have it done already. I didn't see any crumbs or mention of oats or sharrants' movements, so I couldn't piece those together myself. The only not-straightforward movement afaik is my own (backwards, forward 1, left 2, forward 1, left 1; I apparently immediately turned and walked face first into a wall not once, but twice. This left me with an effective backwards, left 3). My flashlight appears out because I'm still facing the wall, and G's is out because of what I can only assume is angelcraft. Did anyone get a PM? On May 17 2013 06:36 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Regarding this post and Vivax's side in the argument, does this imply that the angels don't know all of the players' movespeeds? I wouldn't feel confident trying to draw anything regarding scum knowledge from that discussion. It would get too WIFOM-y for my taste. One think I will note is that I don't think they have a QT, since one wasn't mentioned in the role PM. Since we almost know who and where everyone is, and we know that the puppets also act to slow the angels in their line of sight, I think it's a good time to start gathering up in a corner, or something. ABCF and EHIKL seem pretty close together, so I propose bundling those groups together, and then either working towards the bottom left corner (if we want to have everyone together for maximum visibility) or ABCF goes to the top left and EJIKL goes to the bot right (if we want to maximize distance between groups to make the angels split up). Oh, I guess G could come with EHKIL if he wants  Any thoughts regarding this plan? Preferences between the two options? | ||
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mkfuba07
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##Vote: Oatsmaster | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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I'm still kind of iffy on oats. I'm gonna say why by responding to one of BH's posts: On May 18 2013 20:01 Blazinghand wrote: Just... look, I'm sorry, I need to go to bed, this is it for tonight, but i'll lay it out more simply, okay? imagine oats is town and he's telling the truth. He PMed the hosts and was like "I move up 3 spaces and left 2 while looking up" or something. for this to be true, all this requires is oats glossed over a post or two in the thread and the host saying "ok, I understand what he sent me, no need to send him a snarky PM requiring him to re-send in his movement". This is pretty easy to imagine. I bet this is what happened. now imagine oats is scum and this is a legit slip. he pmed the hosts saying "move my dummy up 3 spaces and left 2" because this is how scum move their dummies. for this to be true, hosts have to be running two different ways of keeping track of movement, which seems needlessly complicated, and use both of those for moving dummies around. and then there's the same assumption that oats glossed over soem of the thread, but this time as scum instead of town. since both scenarios require oats not paying attention to the post, the fact that he did in fact not realize how to move is not the part that's different between our two potential outcomes. Both outcomes assume oats glossed over this post. You guys ugh, you guys good night. vote deconduo. His town oats scenario is what's bothering me. In that situation, the hosts saw that oats didn't follow the movement rules that were emphasized twice in the thread, and allowed him to use movement rules that were different than everyone else in the game. Contrary to what BH thinks I believe, I don't think that the hosts actually implemented different move schemes for each alignment. I think that either: the hosts made a mistake, or they simply allowed it because oats already knew where he was. As a matter of fact, when BH says "...all this requires is oats glossed over a post or two in the thread and the host saying 'ok, I understand what he sent me, no need to send him a snarky PM requiring him to re-send in his movement'", I feel that that more accurately depicts what would happen in the case of scum oats. Scum oats gains absolutely nothing from them using his instructions, while town oats is being allowed to move in a cardinal direction without knowing his location on the map (the very thing vivax was caught trying to convince us to do). It's true that both situations require oats to have glossed over those clarification posts, but only the scum situation explains why the hosts would allow him to use those move instructions - because he already knew where he was, and asking him to change his instructions would just result in him ending in the same location. I'm open to switching my vote to someone who's not oats or deconduo, but I'd have to be convinced. Sharrant was looking particularly shady to me after his defenses of vivax, but marv did seem to be coming around to him(though marv didn't get a chance to comment after vivax's flip). He's where my focus would have been if all of this hadn't happened with oats, but I haven't gone too in-depth through his filter. Also, the timer in the voting thread says that we have about 35 minutes left to the deadline, but I think we're supposed to have two hours on top of that. Which one do we use? | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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My flashlight is out (obviously), but G's is back on, so that effect must only work for one turn. | ||
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mkfuba07
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Zephirdd said he killed sharrant before the nightpost. | ||
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mkfuba07
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I don't doubt your claim, and I agree that phagga seems pretty townie. I also trust deconduo's claim. That leaves me with oats, sentinel, and ghost. | ||
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mkfuba07
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##Vote:Ghost_403 | ||
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Phagga, why vote sentinel over oats? | ||
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mkfuba07
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On May 21 2013 06:25 mkfuba07 wrote: Dear god, hope you're alright, sentinel! :o Phagga, why vote sentinel over oats? | ||
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mkfuba07
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On May 15 2013 23:37 GreYMisT wrote: You can recognize a weeping angel, you cannot discern puppets from players. Yes Nothing, that player would be told that something crossed their vision during the night. This is the post he's referring to, I believe. Everyone visible on the board is a puppet or a townie. A flashlight, when shown on an actual angel (not the puppet of an angel) will reveal it as an Angel in that location, but will not say which letter the angel corresponds to. | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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On May 21 2013 14:48 phagga wrote: Sentinel and Oats, if decon is scum and I am town, you guys are either suspecting each other for the last scum or mkfuba. Which is it and why? mkfuba, what is your take on all of this? I'm trying to reign in my overactive imagination at the moment. Possibilities are flying through my mind, and I don't know which one I think is more likely. I'll try to put down my thoughts in words, but they'll probably be somewhat rambling, incredibly fluffy, and wishy-washy. Anyone who's seen some of my cases from previous games knows how I let myself get carried away, wishfully thinking I've cracked some grand plot. First, just some things to keep in mind: it's lylo. Not only that, but for the angels to win they actually have to feed on us the next two nights (not kill us, and not just let us lynch ourselves to death). Because of this, I feel incredibly stupid for moving towards Zephirdd, especially when he was apparently a tempting target last night. Considering that it's possible neither of the alignments could win led to me thinking about the possible 3rd party, and the fact that we supposedly had 4 blue roles out of 9 townies with only 3 angels. I doubt deconduo's claim very little (maybe 10% or something), since I feel it would have been very brave to fakeclaim a DT role when there might be one on the other team, but I do question whether or not he's actually blue. Next, given that I (pretty much) believe deconduo's claim, why in the hell is he alive? Sure, killing a confirmed townie in Zephirdd is good, but killing a DT that can still make checks seems better. So this leaves a few options: either deconduo is scum (which I doubt), scum were willing to throw away oats for almost nothing (also doubt - they had two entire nights to kill deconduo if they felt it necessary), or they gained something from this check. This brings me around to why phagga felt it would be better to get oats AND himself checked in the same night. This comes down significantly to whether or not you believe deconduo has the power he claims to have. From a town phagga perspective, what does town gain when both of them are checked? If oats is town, then we know they're both town (though little suspicion was on phagga in the first place). If oats is scum, then phagga knows oats is scum, and the rest of the players are left knowing that one of the two is scum, but are still unsure of which. Compare this to if oats was checked alone, and we see a 100% confirmation of oats's alignment. Phagga gains just as much knowledge as he would have otherwise, and the rest of us are left without that doubt left by the 50/50 check. So why do it in the first place? It doesn't help you, it doesn't help town. It does, however, help a lot if phagga is scum. As scum, he knows that they only need one more mislynch (after ghost) to win the game and they have no reason to doubt deconduo's claim. They know that most of the people in the game are willing to vote oats if they can be tipped in that direction, but they also know that deconduo is going to give oats a green check once he finally reaches him. What's one way that they can clinch the game in their favor? By giving deconduo that one red check he needed. It doesn't matter if phagga gives himself away as an angel after the oats flip, because after we lynch oats, the angels have the phone box (sorry, I really wanted to say that). I previously said that this depends significantly on whether or not you believe deconduo, but in retrospect, it doesn't. It comes entirely down to phagga's reasoning when he made this decision, and I see far more scum than town there. ##Vote: phagga | ||
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mkfuba07
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My case on phagga was a possibility that I saw, and felt like sharing because it answered all of my questions and also pretty much guarantees a win for the angels if it goes through. I don't want to lose to such a plan, if it exists, so I made it known. Since no one else (aside from possibly oats?) saw it as viable, then I might have let my imagination get away from me. I just want to make sure that everyone's taken it into consideration, because I've still seen nothing that invalidates it (aside from phagga playing a townier game than oats, which iirc doesn't seem like the hardest thing to do). In response to deconduo, I wouldn't say that I think oats has played a townier game than phagga. I guess I'm always just expecting some kind of major, overarching game plan from scum, even though that goes against my experience with the game. Based entirely on their play this game, I'd say phagga is town, oats is scum (assuming you're telling the truth about both your power and last night's check). The problem is, I've felt that most of us (excluding oats) played a townier game than ghost did, and he flipped town. Somewhat same for ffreyllt, though with her it was more of a "deal with it now or deal with it later" kind of thing. Chains of mislynches like that make me think that we're looking in the wrong place, so I tried looking where no one else appeared to be. I've lost at least two games of mafia in which I've made it to the end because I've decided that "that person couldn't possibly be scum". I think it was marv in deathnote mafia (for which I feel really stupid XD), and darthpunk in acme. I just don't want that to happen again. So, all of that being said, I will give in to the general consensus that I'm wrong (since you can't all be scum, right?). ##Vote: Oatsmaster | ||
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mkfuba07
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On May 22 2013 11:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I never thought phagga was scum. I fell into the sheephole and when you presented your justification of "I wanted to move here" I realized you were in a similar position I fell into by defending feryl. That's when I realized the error of my ways. I pushed for Dec but that one was harder to prove at the moment so I went for ghost. Although ghost flipped town, I gathered more scum play from the dec camp. Why are you not scum? Because Dec is, and for either of you to bus each other at lylo would be so idiotic I would make it a duty to policy lynch both of you from now on. Mkfuba is scum because he fluffs like a mofo and cherrypicks evidence. He believes dec's claim wholeheartedly yet votes to lynch you due to a scumslip and questionable meta. That's playing blind to so many facets of what's transpiring here, its obvious he is trying to sheep you simply because the alternative would be to bus Dec. It is for this reason I will not strive to convince him for he cannot be convinced as scum, but phagga can. See, that's my problem when I play mafia. I can't keep everything everyone's said in my head at all times. I can't go through everyone's filters nonstop because it takes me an eternity. It takes me hours to write almost any post because it's like I see literally every possibility, and can't finish a thought without another one second-guessing what I've already written. If I try to play like everyone else (as everyone else seems to play similarly, though with different attitudes and with different skill levels), I'm fluffy and wishy-washy. So I try to focus on individual actions. It's why I wanted to vote for vivax earlier, and it's why I had more to say about oats's "scumslip". It's why I latched onto phagga's suggestion to check two people, when it gains us literally nothing other than the doubt I find myself in now. The fact that everyone else here (oats excluded, probably) seemed to have had very similar thoughts before the nightpost (oats likely scum, phagga likely town), makes me wonder why the hell no one sees exactly what I do. THERE WAS NO REASON TO CHECK PHAGGA! We all pretty much thought he was town! If I were in phagga's place, even if I considered that I could be checked at the same time, I'd leave it be because THERE WAS NO POINT. Add to that the fact that IF oats is town, and IF phagga is scum, this situation leads to an almost guaranteed win for scum, and the argument seems stronger. We already thought oats was scum. A green check (which decon would provide if it was an oats-only check) on oats would ruin that mislynch. What goes on to secure it? Adding a scum check that can either be attributed to oats or phagga, with obvious results. Keep in mind that this was before you mentioned your case against deconduo. At that moment, if it came simply down to oats vs phagga as scum, you know who you would choose, and I argue that that's what scum was counting on. ##Unvote Anyway, all of that being said, maybe I was taking deconduo's claim for granted. Do you not feel like fakeclaiming like that would be dangerous as scum at that point in time? Is it not risky to fakeclaim when there's the possibility of you being lynched, when being caught in a fakeclaim will guarantee it? Would you fakeclaim the DT role even though the Doctor would seem like a pretty good DT candidate himself (and you can't use his name, because there's definitely a Doctor out there)? These are some thoughts that keep me believing deconduo, so if you want me to vote for him, convince me I'm wrong. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On May 22 2013 13:49 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Dec had nothing to lose. Sure enough, he could've passed himself as the third blue and pretended to be a DT. Zeph was one who would've pointed out that he too was a blue and there were an awful lot of blues in the game. But otherwise it would've been insanely hard to bust Dec or anyone on a simple claim. Imagine you were the real detective and someone else claimed - both of you haven't been able to secure a position next to someone to check , whether on purpose or accident. With your word against his, it would be impossible to root him out as scum. The rest of the players would suspect one of you is blue and the other red, but nothing more. I'd argue that in a counter-claim situation, it would be ridiculous for the person countering the claim to be scum, since that person would have intentionally outed himself as scum by counter-claiming a legit DT claim. i.e. if deconduo claimed DT, and you then claimed to be DT, it would be really ridiculous for you to be scum because you (as scum) would know that deconduo was telling the truth, and despite that you fakeclaimed, knowing full well that deconduo, at least, will know you're lying (and if we ended up lynching deconduo in that situation, we'd all know you lied when he flipped). Similarly in this case it is my word against dec's. I have attempted to lay out points that strengthen the notion that he is scum, and he has done the same to defend himself. I'm just claiming that my points make more sense in context than him. That might be true, but the convenience of this situation (at least in my case) is that his alignment can be narrowed down to a single criteria: whether or not he fakeclaimed. If he fakeclaimed, he's scum. Otherwise, he's town (or a 3rd party, but at the very least not scum). Some may call it cherrypicking, some may call it lazy, but I see it as a valid way of looking at the situation, narrowing it down in a way I can handle. TL;DR Fakeclaiming isn't as dangerous as you think it is. Still feels pretty dangerous, tbh. I still don't see it as likely that he fakeclaimed, given the guaranteed lynch if he did get counter-claimed. I'll take another look at what was going on around the time of his claim, but at the moment I'm not convinced. | ||
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On May 22 2013 15:07 Oatsmaster wrote: This is really hard for me, for 1 thing, phagga is playing like town, IE he looks like town for me , The other thing, how this copcheck thing went down, it makes a lotta sense for phagga to be scum. How about, since there must be 2 scum, we discuss a lynch between mkfuba and Sent and figure out the cop check thing later, IE if dec stays alive, he is totally scum. Whenever you say something like "if he's still alive at this point, then he's scum", it gets really hard to take you seriously... Like, all scum has to do at that point to get dec lynched is not kill him... On May 22 2013 15:13 Oatsmaster wrote: For me, I think its mkfuba. I agree that some of his stuff has looked good as I said, but scum have an easy time speculating on stuff so that isnt all alignment indicative I realize. Considering that I have a scumread on Dec, and that he switched between both of them day 1, whoever got lynched would look good for him. Further more, it seems like he has been following the boat and not rocking it, like all of his reads are in line with town sentiment, and his one outlier, read on phagga, he dropped after it wasnt supported by anyone other than be briefly. Other than that, all ive seen was a few long posts and no bursts of sustained activity I feel. ##Unvote Vote: mkfuba I've picked up my case on phagga again. As evidenced by the fact that I unvoted you and reiterated my entire case against him. I'm also opposing the two of you recently voting for deconduo (which since you think I'm scum is simply more "proof" for you, but if you consider me as town becomes more "boat rocking"). It's new for me. I've never "rocked the boat" before, aside from some kinda ridiculous cases in previous games, so I'm not sure why you would expect it from me in the first place. And long posts are what you get when I sleep for unnaturally large amounts of time. I'm also bad at putting my thoughts into words, so that's probably some more of it. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On May 22 2013 15:31 phagga wrote: Look, I'm not even debating that in hindsight it was useless to let decon check me as well, it was just something that came into my mind 5 minutes before deadline and then there was no time left to discuss it. Yes, I agree it could have been a plan by scum, but the point is that in both cases it did not make much sense to let that check happen. Also, as I said earlier, if I was so inclined on getting Oats misslynched, why would I kill all the people that support an Oats lynch? (mainly Zeph). Would it not be much easier to kill deconduo instead and then push an Oats lynch with Zeph? The plan you are implying is so highly convoluted that it would get a small chance of success for scum. If I was indeed scum, I would have had so many easier ways to push a misslynch than what you are proposing. Look, let's line this out: For your theorie to work, you have to make these assumptions:
For my explanation to work, you need to make these assumptions:
If you look at it like this, it should be obvious that while your theory is not impossible, it is very improbable. If I was indeed scum, why would I come up with such a complicated and risky-to-execute plan when I could have had it so much easier with the same chance of success? What scum gains from this wouldn't be that simple, and what I need to assume for this plan to work is far, far more than scum would have to. In my scenario, scum don't simply gain a mislynch on oats. They kill a confirmed, experienced townie (zeph), avoid allowing deconduo to make oats a confirmed townie, almost guarantee a mislynch on oats, and in turn win the game because it's lylo. Those are a LOT of gains when the alternative is letting deconduo confirm the most lynchable townie. And as for the assumptions scum would have to make in that scenario, they know everyone's alignment already, they didn't need to come up with a last minute plan, just unveil it at the last minute, and the rest of those assumptions are just implicitly part of the plan that they would have formed. Your list of town phagga assumptions is right though... And I just now understood what you really said about my assumptions. I'm wondering if I've been Sherlocking it (that's what I've decided to call it when I find a scum plan that I think fits so perfectly that I can't believe it's not the truth). The ease with which I feel a scum phagga could have developed this plan is at odds with how I would otherwise feel about your alignment. I'll have to think on it a bit more, possibly set myself straight. In any case, I do still believe deconduo, which means that either you or oats is scum (but not both). That leaves only Sentinel as the last scum. ##Vote: [UoN]Sentinel Oh, and as for oats's plan... I'm kind of against it. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
If the plan was simply to choose between sent and I, I guess I'm for it? I mean, you know my decision in that case XD | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On May 22 2013 21:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: HOLD THE FUCK UP You're telling me that you don't know whether phagga or Oats is town because Oats refuted your plan, so by that logic I'm the scum? No. I'm saying that given that I still believe deconduo isn't fakeclaiming, that means one of oats/phagga is scum, leaving one scum left between me and you. Since I know I'm not scum, that only leaves you. It's not the best argument for convincing others, but it's logic that I am comfortable with. (I also don't remember oats refuting my plan... but that's neither here nor there) phagga, will you absolutely not vote for sent today? You've said already that you think he's the final scum (unless you've changed your mind after the filter dives). Is the problem that oats is also voting for him? In any case, I'll be here until the deadline. I know it's lylo, and I will avoid a no-lynch no matter what. You know where my vote will go if it comes down to it. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Hmm... actually, maybe not... I could just be sherlocking again, but something's occurred to me that I hadn't considered before, for some reason. Not enough time to look into it/explain it now, but I'm willing to vote for oats. Hopefully I haven't just talked myself into a mislynch, but I'm feeling pretty good about it. ##Unvote ##Vote: Oatsmaster | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
And I'm glad you guys persuaded me XD | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Looks like today is gonna be another low-talk kinda day. I don't see dec bussing oats as very likely, so I feel the same way sentinel does, but reversed. Everything's in deconduo and phagga's hands, I guess. ##Vote: Sentinel In response to phagga's post above: I'm not really sure how much we can infer from what's gone on with kills, angel sightings, etc. It might be reasonable to assume that the angels (assuming they all have similar role PMs) have used all their "stalks" (again, assuming they can only use the power once, each). That would explain why none of them apparently ended up next to a townie last night. Or, I should say, the one remaining angel didn't. I mean, on top of that, we don't really know when all of the actions are resolved. Maybe oats was lynched before he was going to feed. Maybe, as I said earlier, no angels ended their turns next to townies. Maybe they decided not to feed last night for some reason (I can't really imagine why... but it's one of the possibilities). There's also little we can infer about the final angel's current position. Yes, sentinel says he saw something last night, but without knowing the lynch/move order we don't know which angel (the one near you guys, or the one near me) died. But, again, we can't really say. Some of these questions have a more likely answer (I'd imagine lynches occur before movement/feeding/killing), but idk, it's a lot of unknowns to get lost in. I've got time to talk today if anyone's here. Not sure how much there is to talk about, but I'm available XD | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Anyway, all of that being said, maybe I was taking deconduo's claim for granted. Do you not feel like fakeclaiming like that would be dangerous as scum at that point in time? Is it not risky to fakeclaim when there's the possibility of you being lynched, when being caught in a fakeclaim will guarantee it? Would you fakeclaim the DT role even though the Doctor would seem like a pretty good DT candidate himself (and you can't use his name, because there's definitely a Doctor out there)? These are some thoughts that keep me believing deconduo, so if you want me to vote for him, convince me I'm wrong. These are the reasons I gave for believing decon didn't fakeclaim. What has changed for me is my understanding of the events around the time of his claim. I'm crap at organizing my cases into easy-to-follow paragraphs and steps, so I'll just lay out everything that's led to this change of heart. D1, the two most likely lynch candidates were vivax and deconduo. Also note that oats+vivax weren't holding back against each other starting almost instantly D1 (a willingness to bus early and pretty hard). At the time of deconduo's claim, the top candidates were oats, deconduo, and sharrant. Given that oats WAS scum, we know that his movement claim WAS a scumslip. Scum knew that *at the time*. So, at this point, they've lost one angel already, one made a pretty significant scumslip that half the players jumped on the wagon for(and that the angels KNOW was a scumslip), and the last (assuming I am correct) was the runner up for the previous day's lynch as well as the current player whose wagon is gaining momentum. THIS is a situation in which almost all of the points I raised in my D4 post are invalidated. There was MUCH more pressure on scum than I previously understood. D2, with two scum on the chopping block the day before, with the last two on the block today. At that point, how he came up with an unused name for an unused role is somewhat less important (though it's just occurred to me that Amelia Pond wasn't actually IN the episode that contained Billy Shipton, the companion at that time was Martha [the implication from this being that it was unlikely to find both Billy and Amy in the same episode, so it was probably not a name already in use]; also as someone pointed out previously, scum has all the information it needs to act as a DT). So, given that I believe it's completely viable for deconduo to have fakeclaimed in that situation, and given that vivax and oats were so ready to bus each other, I don't see it as unreasonable for deconduo and oats to do so, in turn. So what makes him scum? Most of the stuff that Sentinel previously mentioned. What is most convincing for me is that many of his comments are either asking questions (many of which have already been answered/I somehow knew the answer already so I didn't see why it needed to be asked) or observations that are also readily apparent. When I think of his contributions this game, aside from his supposed role his questions are in the forefront. In addition, there are two people who I felt would be pretty concerned about today's lynch: deconduo and phagga. For Sentinel and I, we only had one real option. Phagga has shown some concern and effort, and I expect we would have seen more if anyone else in the game showed interest in discussion. But the only other person who really needs to figure things out is deconduo, and we've heard nothing from him but an assurance to find set up a computer soon. Even if he couldn't see the board, he could have read the thread (it's grown by like, 6 posts or something since the day started) and posted more. And now that I think of it, he could have tried to set up a check on sentinel last night, and he would have supposedly known who the final scum was. He didn't do that either. He's basically showing a complete lack of interest in the outcome of today, when I'd expect him to be one of the most concerned. Also note that we know that he's at least seen both phagga and sentinel saying that he's town, and wouldn't have bussed oats. If that doesn't lull a fakeclaiming scum into a sense of security, I don't know what would. ##Unvote ##Vote: deconduo | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
And since the deadline is in 10.5 hours, I'm gonna try to get some sleep. I'll set my alarm for... I'll say 4 hours before the lynch. I'll probably hit snooze for at least an hour, though. Guys, make the right decision. Look at how the claim and the promise of a check has helped them (two mislynches between oats's scumslip and his actual lynch). Try to see the situation from scum's point of view at the moment of deconduo's claim. It's completely reasonable for deconduo to "bus" oats because it wasn't even really a bus. It was damage control. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On May 24 2013 21:37 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I'm convinced mk is town but I haven't the foggiest who the last scum is. Mk could you justify why dec and oats would bus each other? assuming they are both scum First, the scumteam that has been revealed so far shows no signs of being afraid to bus each other. That's not all of it, but it certainly helps the thought process along. Then, there's the fact that with one scum dead N1, another one made a convincing scumslip that half the players in the game jumped on him for. Note that as opposed to the rest of town, they KNEW it was a scumslip. I imagine it's far more convincing for them than it was for us, given that they KNEW he was scum. Then, the remaining scum was the next in line to be lynched D1, as well as the "current" (at the time) lynch candidate after his own scumpartner, and tied with Sharrant. At that point, I would either be really scared, really desperate, or just generally not care all that much (would have given up) if I were scum. Any and all of these could provide motivation to fakeclaim and bus. And as I said, it was barely even bussing. It was pointing out that someone who not only slipped hard, but was also called scum by almost every dead townie in the game, was in fact scum. It was more like damage control. There are other reasons that I believe get more into sherlocking. Such as their "oops, we both tried to occupy the same space! Guess we'll have to wait another turn to check oats!" *ohyou.jpg* Considering that we "couldn't" lynch oats until the check on him was complete, and we "couldn't" lynch deconduo because he was a claimed DT, it would have been literally impossible to lynch scum if these two were scum together. If they considered this, and deconduo understood the rules better than he appears to in the thread (which I imagine he does) then even that could have been planned. But this entire second paragraph is unnecessary. It felt very speculative, so I left it out in my first post. Also, he still hasn't posted anything else in the thread. Maybe he just really wants to wait until he can see the board for some reason. Maybe because he can't formulate a fake PM from the hosts saying that phagga is town without knowing that he is, in fact, actually next to phagga, and only phagga. Maybe my questions earlier in this day have actually come to some use after all. But, again, really speculative. It does explain why he doesn't post only because he can't see the board, though. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Then I remembered that that would mean deconduo was lying, too. I'm so paranoid around lynch time...  | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
GG, either way. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I really didn't want this to be a repeat of Deathnote mafia, and it wasn't! (by that, I mean I get myself all worked up over an idea and end up being completely wrong) I liked the flavor, liked the concept, had fun thinking about the board. I can't really comment on balance all that much though, so I'll leave that up to people who know more of such things XD GG everyone! | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On May 25 2013 06:47 Zephirdd wrote: Being the host of DN mafia made months ago, I feel proud that people still remember it. I'll surely remember the DrWho one  I loved the game, just hated being wrong in the first game I got to lategame in. Especially because marv was the last scum, and he did naught things to my corpse... | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Yeah >: | | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On May 25 2013 06:56 marvellosity wrote: Seriously, thank fuck for fuba, if I were alive I'd have killed Sentinel because I'd have reasoned randomly claiming cop was just too insanely risky for mafia to do. Awwwww, thanks <3 | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
As for playing through scenarios, that's almost all I do when I play mafia. I don't think I actually know how to play like the rest of you. I mean, I'd think it would pretty much be the same, but most of you have seen my typical cases, and it's things like that that are flying through my head all game. That's why I really want to play a hydra game at some point, and get some insight into players' thoughts over the course of a game (anyone know if another one is starting anytime soon?). | ||
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