EPT
On April 04 2013 22:24 Oatsmaster wrote:
And if we know the roles in the game, how does that help us?
Info is a lazy answer dude.
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 22:23 Mocsta wrote:
In my humble opinion; the two events are trying to achieve different outcomes.
mass Roleclaim: as far as I understand it, is an attempt to solve the game setup; and establish individuals as confirmed town/scum.
Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum.
I see a clear dichotomy.
On April 04 2013 22:13 Oatsmaster wrote:
???
So why dont we all roleclaim at the start of the game then?
On April 04 2013 22:12 Mocsta wrote:
because its information.
just because we have it now, doesnt mean we need to process it now.
its something that can be stored away, and pulled out post flips, or watever.
im really surprised we have to comment about basics of mafia play here?
On April 04 2013 22:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
How?
On April 04 2013 22:10 Mocsta wrote:
Seriously, your starting to piss me off.
Find where I state I will believe the claim?
I am saying it is a tool that can be used to catch liars blah blah later down the track.
On April 04 2013 22:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
My point is exactly that. You can't know. How are you going to figure that out?
On April 04 2013 22:04 Mocsta wrote:
Are you a knob head or something?
You are the one who said, #3 who tries for CPR outs the town CPR at #1 or #2.
I was pointing out the fallacy in your logic. i.e. could be town or scum.. not just town.
On April 04 2013 22:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So you just argued against yourself?
As i said there is no way of knowing who is telling the truth and who isn't and all you are doing by vanilla claims is give scum information about town roles.
On April 04 2013 21:58 Mocsta wrote:
[quote]I dont see a point debating this.
Its a role either alignment can want; perhaps even moreso as a personal preference.
[quote]I dont see a point debating this.
Its a role either alignment can want; perhaps even moreso as a personal preference.
So you just argued against yourself?
As i said there is no way of knowing who is telling the truth and who isn't and all you are doing by vanilla claims is give scum information about town roles.
Are you a knob head or something?
You are the one who said, #3 who tries for CPR outs the town CPR at #1 or #2.
I was pointing out the fallacy in your logic. i.e. could be town or scum.. not just town.
My point is exactly that. You can't know. How are you going to figure that out?
Seriously, your starting to piss me off.
Find where I state I will believe the claim?
I am saying it is a tool that can be used to catch liars blah blah later down the track.
How?
because its information.
just because we have it now, doesnt mean we need to process it now.
its something that can be stored away, and pulled out post flips, or watever.
im really surprised we have to comment about basics of mafia play here?
???
So why dont we all roleclaim at the start of the game then?
In my humble opinion; the two events are trying to achieve different outcomes.
mass Roleclaim: as far as I understand it, is an attempt to solve the game setup; and establish individuals as confirmed town/scum.
Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum.
I see a clear dichotomy.
And if we know the roles in the game, how does that help us?
Info is a lazy answer dude.
On April 04 2013 23:48 Oatsmaster wrote:
How in the world does stating setup information help town? What?
Thats saying why GF is a good role. WHAT IS THE POINT?
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 23:44 austinmcc wrote:
And for Oats, because I WOULD like to see most people state 3 powerful roles and WHY they want to deny those from mafia.
(1) CPR doc - In mafia hands this is a multi-shot vig but without accountability (america = multi-shot nuker but has to publicly out self). Doubles mafia KP, but secretly.
(2) Assassin - See above. Mafia knows all alignments, therefore this is a multi-shot vig without accountability.
(3) Janitor - Information from flips good for town. Lack of that information for town bad. LOTS of KP roles in this game, good chance that some townies will be firing as well as mafia maybe getting extra KP, so there's the chance to hide multiple flips.
(4) Role swapper/copy cat - These are dangerous only in that they can be used to get dangerous roles. Role swapper somewhat prevents town from denying mafia a role, but power still out of mafia hands for a night and the town role swapper then basically can DT check someone (if they've claimed, see if they're lying. If not, can you tell whether they've used their role, and in a townie/scummy way?). Copy cat another way to try and get a strong power passed down.
Roles that I considered but dont' think are as strong as they look:
(1) Hooker - Multi-shot vig without accountability. Stronger than the above because you CAN infect multiple targets. Weaker than the above because can be medic protected off. Also weaker than the above because, HOPEFULLY, if a townie knows he's going to die next cycle, he can be very vocal and is trustworthy/semi-confirmed-town (given that town hookers shouldn't be hooking willy-nilly, so we can assume he was targeted by a mafia hooker).
And for Oats, because I WOULD like to see most people state 3 powerful roles and WHY they want to deny those from mafia.
(1) CPR doc - In mafia hands this is a multi-shot vig but without accountability (america = multi-shot nuker but has to publicly out self). Doubles mafia KP, but secretly.
(2) Assassin - See above. Mafia knows all alignments, therefore this is a multi-shot vig without accountability.
(3) Janitor - Information from flips good for town. Lack of that information for town bad. LOTS of KP roles in this game, good chance that some townies will be firing as well as mafia maybe getting extra KP, so there's the chance to hide multiple flips.
(4) Role swapper/copy cat - These are dangerous only in that they can be used to get dangerous roles. Role swapper somewhat prevents town from denying mafia a role, but power still out of mafia hands for a night and the town role swapper then basically can DT check someone (if they've claimed, see if they're lying. If not, can you tell whether they've used their role, and in a townie/scummy way?). Copy cat another way to try and get a strong power passed down.
Roles that I considered but dont' think are as strong as they look:
(1) Hooker - Multi-shot vig without accountability. Stronger than the above because you CAN infect multiple targets. Weaker than the above because can be medic protected off. Also weaker than the above because, HOPEFULLY, if a townie knows he's going to die next cycle, he can be very vocal and is trustworthy/semi-confirmed-town (given that town hookers shouldn't be hooking willy-nilly, so we can assume he was targeted by a mafia hooker).
How in the world does stating setup information help town? What?
Thats saying why GF is a good role. WHAT IS THE POINT?
am i misreading? or does he seem to be more speculative/planning in PYP?
