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Hydra Mini Mafia II - Extra Nuke Edition - Page 6

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 20:20 GMT
#963
Just because he's not lying about what he's doing doesn't make it any more excusable that neither of them have honestly scumhunted this entire fucking game.
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 20:26 GMT
#970
On April 15 2013 03:42 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Here's my problem with WoC.

1. Wave joked around exclusively even when shit got serious. This is not behavior that I remember much of from Wave in any game yet. When I went and looked at Ego Mini, The Game and LX, none of those had much joking at all. As a matter of fact he gets into the think of things in all of those games. In this game he's just seemed to take a complete wait and see approach. This looks like a mentality shift to me from being town to being new scum.
2. In looking at how Wave tends to post in Ego and The Game, you get almost a series of Short Post-Short Post-Long Post that repeats itself. It's almost like he does that sort of posting unconciously. It's something he does from almost the beginning of the game. Yet here, he doesn't look to actually ever 'catch' into that typical town rhetoric from him. This to me looks like he's trying to be careful and not posting naturally.
3. Wave made a meta case. Wave tries to avoid meta cases like the plague. What's the point in him making a meta case? Either as a newer player or as a player who has often expressed his feelings about meta cases, who is going to listen or pay attention to it? No one. This is an easily dismissable case in addition to it being out of character for Wave. + Show Spoiler +
On April 14 2013 14:14 WaveOfCheesecake wrote:
I don't have the time for this now; if I feel it's appropriate I will post the meta case I have on Mocsta tomorrow. I can't be drawin into a million-hour discussion with Mocsta atm; I have too much work to do. The whole point of CC's discussion with Mocsta (for me) was to keep him talking so I could find out more. I don't care what the rest of town thinks about that conversation; the two of us know what we're doing.

And where the fuck are you getting that I have to check everything through with CC? All I said was I don't know why he finds Rayn scummy because we never discussed it.



Actually fuck it, I'll post the short form without proof atm; that'll have to be enough for now. If my meta reads are still shit then they're shit but that's why I wanted to hear more from GK---I'm not 100% cemented on my scumread/meta read and I was hoping GK could confirm in for me one way or another, which it hasn't.


In short, two things. At the time of be making my meta case, Mocsta had already posted a ton without calling anyone scummy; just making careful posts and not giving a solid read on anyone. This is indicative of his early game scum play from both NMM 37 and Hydra I. As town he throws out reads left and right constantly and ACTUALLY MAKES CASES to follow up with his reads and endless lines of questioning, which he hasn't done here. He votes for us here without actually even calling us scum---obviously amounts to the same thing but rubs me the wrong way.


Another random interesting meta tidbit to mention is Mocsta often enters a thread with much fanfare and hysteria, regardless of alignment (though MORE likely to do so as town.)
Hydra mini I (scum) - was there when the game started, lots of trolling, lots of joking around.
The Game (town) - replaced sandro after a day or so, lots of joking, calling people scum, whatnot.
Nomination (town) - jovial lighthearted posting style, throwing votes and shit around at game entry.
NMM 37 (scum) - Enters the thread with lighthearted tone and RNG fluff.

This game he was not around when the game started, and you'll notice he did NOT joke around at all, rather he got supersrs right from the get-go. I believe this is because entering a game late as scum, he missed the 'permissible first few hours joking-around period' and doesn't want to start fooling around when people are actually having discussion for fear he will look scummy for trying to derail. NOTE: He had NO problem joking around in the middle of The Game when he entered because he was town and had no reason to be afraid or look guilty.


Make of this case what you will for now. I might be able to expand on it further with better proof (especially since people are unlikely to go sifting through his meta themselves). CC was asking me to post this much earlier when the discussion was happening but I didn't want to derail trying to learn what I could at the time. I figure it's better out than in right now especially given thread sentiment. I'm going to attempt to study then go to bed but I might be able to check back on the thread a couple more times.
The only viable point in the whole case is perhaps the Mocsta not giving reads freely; in my memory, Mocsta was very willing to give reads in NMM37 (as for Hydra mini I don't remember as I read that game but wasn't terribly invested in it). One of his major points is that Mocsta didn't instantly enter joking around but in 3/4ths of the games he posted Mocsta joked around heavily in. This is not and was not a case made to be appreciated or noticed. It was a case to be made just get pressure off of him and nothing else.

I don't see why more people can't hop on the Geript Wagon of Justice (TM). Wave isn't approaching things from a towny aspect and isn't showing himself to be consistent with his town meta (no scum meta yet available). He also isn't approaching things in any sort of natural towny mentality or mindset. He's totes scum brahs

Seriously did you guys read this at all? Just because Yamato isn't making the points doesn't mean that you should ignore this. Go back and look at http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&user=66004 or The Game or LX. Is my read of him off? Do you see me mischaracterizing his early play or how he posts? WoS doesn't put much stock in meta and then he up and comes with a meta case that is other than one minor point in the middle totally non-sensical and looks as if it's a "SEE HOW MUCH EFFORT I'M PUTTING IN HERE" post. That's not towny.
<--not yamato
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 20:27 GMT
#971
On April 15 2013 05:25 VIVAX420 wrote:
i give a shit it's just that there are a bunch of people who could easily be scum. Except because of the votes it is now very unlikely that one of those people is FMB. Yet people are still voting for him...

Because a lynch is better than no lynch.

You're not helping in finding a new lynch candidate, you're just fucking around.

You scum? Vivax being townish isn't going to excuse you fucking off for too long.
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 20:31 GMT
#979
Honestly, at this point I'm not going to lynch Prom.

Vivax420/NSB/WWoC

Pick one, bros.
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 20:31 GMT
#981
On April 15 2013 05:24 ShotgunBiceps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2013 05:19 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
On April 15 2013 05:17 ShotgunBiceps wrote:
Your WoC suspicions are more that he's playing bad rather than scummy. I'm not pleased with his play either, but I think it's townie. Again, his vote post on FMB is very genuine.

No. I clearly showed how he's acting differently and posting differently from his normal town self. On top of that, he's not following any normal town thought processes (think scum -> pressure -> vote). Instead it's (think scum -> mindlessly argue -> flail).


That's kinda how town-CC plays =/

My point is that much of their filter IMO isn't CC but WoS. Not all of it granted, but WoS is acting differently. Even how he responds to pressure has been different. In the Game he became far, FAR more involved after cases were levied against him. In Hydra, once he was on the chopping block he started trying to actively push someone else because he was both blue and town. This game, I don't get that. I don't see him actually trying to get MA lynched at all. Even if you say that's because he's busy, then look at his meta case... would you ever think that's effective at pushing agenda? Honestly? That's not a weak case from a weak player; that's just a bad case. It has 1 good point in the middle of it which gets the least time and he spends most of that time deciding whether or not to even post his thoughts. NOT TOWNY. WoS is SCUM
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 20:36 GMT
#984
LYNCH WAVEOFCHEESEACKE
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 20:42 GMT
#988
On April 15 2013 05:36 ShotgunBiceps wrote:
Hydra 1 was a fairly different situation no? Like he was the leading lynch candidate, and not a fringe one.

Anyway I'll read his filter again. I still think his FMB vote was very genuine.

To some extent all 3 situations are different. In Hydra 1 I think he gained lots of hate and pressure on N2 after the VE/OO lynch and that's when he really started getting active. In the game it wasn't until D2 where he had a ton of pressure and was setup as the mislych du jour with 2-3 cases on him when he got super invested so to speak and had a terrible coming out claim. In LX he and Dr.H got into it late game and went back and forth both being really active and shit-throwing etc. The point is that how he responds to pressure is alignment indicative; when he feels pressured, he gets his ass in gear. In this case he seems to have no investment in shifting into 3rd gear.
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 20:44 GMT
#991
On April 15 2013 05:42 VIVAX420 wrote:
ok fine if it's not allowed by the rules. that would make sense because it would be a huge town tell to have a normal looking hydra qt.

Why is WoC town?
Last couple posts in his filter show town mindset of trying to figure shit out. Also he puts A LOT of effort into metaing.

No he doesn't. He played in all of those games. He's summarizing them and from my memory misrepresenting them at points. He put actual effort in explaining why the things are alignment indicative. MOST OF ALL HE BELIEVES HIS META READS ARE SHIT AND DOESN'T USE META!!!!!! How is that not a red flag for you?
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 21:07 GMT
#1008
I prefer NSB to Rayn based on activity alone.
<--not yamato
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 21:18 GMT
#1020
##unvote
##vote raynmaster

not quite sure how I feel about it but unless Yam corrects it, I'm fine with it.
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 21:26 GMT
#1027
Still need 2 for a majority. I think I'm really starting to hate majority lynch idea.
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 21:34 GMT
#1039
On April 15 2013 06:30 John Matrix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2013 06:27 FiveTouch wrote:
It feels like one of those gutty townreads he gets...I don't like ignoring those. I have reasons for being suspicious of rayn and he hasn't commented on them at all. He likes the push on Hapa, but doesn't explain why it has to be town motivated when sentiment was against Hapa anyway (imo).

But he's not often wrong about townreads. Hence, I'm waiting to discuss it with him.


Beer goggles

-DP

I approve of this post.
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 21:34 GMT
#1040
<-- not yamato
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 21:40 GMT
#1049
I'll be honest, I'm here and reading the thread and I see this lynch moving on to Rayn/Oats

I haven't even read their posts, lol.

I have a bad habit of doing that.
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 21:41 GMT
#1051
He's making a joke VE. You are allowed to laugh. It's funny. You and Marv seem to disagree about Rayn. He's lower on my list of prefered lynches but at some point we settle for an acceptable lynch. Any thoughts on a different preference?
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 21:41 GMT
#1053
<--not yamato
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 21:45 GMT
#1059
On April 15 2013 06:43 ShotgunBiceps wrote:
Where did Syllo go in all of this?

It is pretty nice to notice who actually cares about finding a good lynch, no?
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 21:48 GMT
#1064
Calm down, Palmar.
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 21:50 GMT
#1072
On April 15 2013 06:49 John Matrix wrote:
Remember that sammy is scum. Vivax is town because of something I know syllo would definitely consider a strong towntell, yet he's willing to lynch vivax.

never forget.

Mind explaining this we still have 8 minutes.
InsertSmurfHere
Profile Joined March 2013
288 Posts
April 14 2013 21:52 GMT
#1077
I don't understand how that works for how you guys read people at all. I'm really going to have to do more hydra/shadowing because your guys trains of thought are fucking confusing at times.
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