EPTEgo Mini Mafia - Page 15
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
gg guys. gl. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Less sorry about Ace because it didn't matter  well played dp/sci/iamp etc. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
this all over. i played more restrained last game in Red Team, but cmon, the name's Ego mafia. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 11 2013 09:14 Ace wrote: wish you lived to Day 2 - I had an army of gifs ready for you pretty sad I missed that tbh ^^ | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 11 2013 17:55 Palmar wrote: hey at least I voted scum 2/3 days, and to be honest killing you was fun enough to make it worth it. Sure I may have been off a lot, but at least I'm not marv. at least I actually caught one, dear | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 11 2013 20:18 Oatsmaster wrote: The point of this is that our team had very little thread influence(Not activity based, like skill based), like marv HAD to push wrong lynches for us to win. All of us cant spearhead a lynch, we need someone to take our ideas and kill dudes with it. Which takes a lot of power out scum's hands again, which I didnt like. yeah oats is completely right here. 3 mafia were dead by the middle of day 3. not even because the mafia themselves individually played badly or anything, but none of them have any thread impact to control things. Despite mistakes from townies like me and Palmar (wos/sci early, ace/oats) it didn't even matter one bit because there were lots of other townies with good ideas. This game shows precisely why teams need to be balanced, not the opposite, DP. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 11 2013 20:35 sciberbia wrote: I'm strongly in favor of true RNG. I don't think you can argue that scum played as well as town in this game. Good scumplay is defined per the win condition as not dying. All 3 scum died. It's not like it's not within their power to not die. If they had all played the towniest games of their lives they would surely have won. Not saying it's easy but I'm saying the better team won. Mafia is a team game. As long as the setup is such that the better team will usually win that is fair in my book. In most team games you can make fair teams for every game but a key feature of mafia is that knowing who is on your team ruins the game. I think it takes away a lot of the spirit of the game if marv knows going in that either palmar or ace must be scum. edit: another reason I don't like it is that it puts newer players at a completely unfair disadvantage. All the vets know what teams would be considered balanced but newer players may not. It also unfairly advantages players who personally know the host and what he would be likely to do. imo it is much more fun to try to figure out whether someone is scum by analyzing their filter and interactions with other players than playing guess-what-the-host-thought-would-be-fun. Just a terrible argument all round really. Extreme example: you put 6 chess grandmasters against 6 amateurs. Chess is a game of complete information, so as long as each team has 3 whites and 3 blacks, the match is completely balanced. But of course it isn't, because experience and ability plays a large factor, and the grandmasters will win every time. Much the same in this particular setup; I bet if you ran a simulation of this game 100 times, this town team would at least 80% of the time. Town ran over mafia despite Palmar and I pushing 2 wrong lynches day 1 and despite the fact i was hard defending a mafia. Almost things couldn't have gone worse for town this game and yet it was still totally one-sided. I'm sure this game was "fun" for town with its totally RNG element, but realistically mafia didn't really have a chance. It's a simple fact that mafia teams need people with thread impact. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
no it doesn't. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
This might sound like I'm bashing on the skill of the mafia but it's not how it's meant to come across. None of the people on the mafia-team have a history of large thread impact in a game and that's just a fact. This game was always going to be a town win. If you're happy for a game to be one-sided for the sake of some silly RNG concept, then fine, but you'll get games where mafia basically can't win like this one. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 11 2013 21:11 sciberbia wrote: you're chess example is correct in principle but it's obviously an exaggeration. Most rng's will be somwhat fair. This one just happened to be particularly bad for scum and that is unfortunate but imo it is still better than the alternative. If you ran a simulation for a penant game between the braves and the marlins the braves would probably win 80 percent of the time AND everyone knows that going in but for any player it is nearly as exciting as if the teams were balanced. Playing for the upset is fun. Most RNGs will skew abilities far more than a balanced team. By definition practically, RNG will lead to much larger disparities in ability between two teams. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 11 2013 21:16 Dandel Ion wrote: RNG es #1. And if the game was normal deadline lynches, I'd argue the scumteam would have been mighty fine. You're all overexaggerating the people-balance thing, and none of the "vets" had that big of an impact or "thread influence" or whatever. It was a solid all-around town performance, and town happened to pick up bigtime after 48 hours of day1 were over. ...precisely, it was a solid town performance because town was so stacked and *mafia* didn't have the thread influence, which is completely the point. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 11 2013 21:19 wherebugsgo wrote: that's mafia's fault, not the fault of the host or the player distribution. People have certain abilities and strengths, it's pointless saying it's the fault of the players for not having it when they were already known to not have it. Stupid. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 11 2013 21:24 wherebugsgo wrote: So no one gets better at the game? So you should just GG out at the beginning of the game if you're scum and you even think your team is inferior? What a fucking defeatist attitude. That's not what I said, way to know how to read! | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 11 2013 21:26 wherebugsgo wrote: You say it's not the player's fault for not having an ability when they are "known" not to have it. What the fuck? How can you know a person's ability in this game? There are no reliable indicators of skill level in mafia when they change even between games. Not even winrates are that useful because the sample sizes are too small, and the games are team-based, not individual based. You can't tell who's a good player and who's not so good? Seriously? Are you unable to assess players' strengths depending on the numerous games you've seen from them? Are you that unaware? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 11 2013 21:36 wherebugsgo wrote: this times 1 million. What happens when two new players come along and you balance their team of 3 players by putting a vet like Ace on that team to balance it, but those two new players turn out to be really good at scum? What happens when you have a game with 6 vets, but only one of them is actually good at scum? Do you condemn that guy to playing on scum? What happens when every host thinks the same way you do? That guy will end up playing nothing but scum. You're taking a way simplistic view when it should be obvious that it's not one I advocate. Can you give me a single example of the Ace + 2 newbs playing amazing scumgames happening? I bet you can't. There are monumentally few players who take to mafia like a fish to water. Since I've been playing, I can think of me, Acro, probably DP too - and that's about it. Tunkeg has never played mafia before and Axle has played mafia once. The funny thing about this game is that Oats *did* play much better than he played as mafia before, so he got caught properly day 3 instead of day 1. Teams shouldn't be handpicked with massive scrutiny and eye to detail, but if you put 3 mafia players with 3 scumgames between them and no previously indicated ability as mafia together, then you get a game like this. That's just how it is. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
While mafia as a game is more volatile than most, generally speaking experience and learning plays a massive aspect as it does in almost any game. For example I don't understand why Tunkeg would be offended at the suggestion of playing with a vet mafia; Tunkeg has never played mafia before, so reasonably speaking it's silly to expect he'll be as good as someone who's played mafia multiple times. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
... you're an idiot. I already referenced the very few players who take to mafia as an exception, and you're obviously one of them. | ||
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