|
On April 22 2013 01:38 getmoript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:16 Hopeless1der wrote: I don't see it as particularly telling of either alignment as it was Vivax's first post. I read it and just kind of shook my head. I can follow not wanting to lynch him based on being reckless, though not with the certainty that Palmar has suggested. I'm specifically interested in the bolded. I think there's a reasonable value oddly enought to the Vivax conjecture. Anyone who posted early is more likely, as a general rule, to be town as scum are more likely consult a QT for direction and coordinate first. The problem with the heuristic is quite simply that it doesn't work for everyone equally; as a general rule, I think it's likely to be true, but without applying it to the specific people that posted early makes it more of a generally worthless statement. Sylencia -- As far as I know he is a noob, so I'm guessing more likely town then yamato--I am unaware of his scum tendencies, but don't think that posting early is indicative either way oats--AFAIK he's a vet, in the least he's towards the spammy aggressive side which makes posting early non-alignment indicative WoS--he always rolls scum so there's that I guess geript--Clearly an egotistical maniac and posted in The Game early as scum, so again non-alignment indicative Shaio--No clue as to experience, wanting to kill BM is more likely town Vivax--I'm not familiar enough with his meta, but the odd statement alone makes me think he's more likely town as I don't think he's crazy enough to spout that as scum So far, the list of people that I'm not interested in lynching today: Sylencia Vivax Shaio Palmar
As much as I loathe to admit it, I think this post was made by a townie. I think everyone can see how objectively scummy this post is, but the following post reads townie enough that I don't think he's a good lynch at this point.
On April 22 2013 01:48 getmoript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 01:25 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On April 22 2013 01:23 kushm4sta wrote: WE knew that's what VE meant because we are town. Scum prob didn't know what he meant. Now you just explained it to them. Why wouldn't scum know what he meant? They had to do the exact same thing, the only difference is they had a QT in their PM. They still have to look up if they are framer,rber,godfather or whatever. Literally every person has to reference the op for their role, regardless of alignment. How would you even know this? Are you scum? Did you receive a QT in your PM? Did you receive the QT in the same pm or a different pm? You are treading on highly suspicious ground for me because as a hydra I received my hydra QT in the same PM. You aren't a hydra clearly. How would you know that?
I don't think he's faking this. I think at this point in the game he earnestly thinks he just nailed one of the mafia in a slip up. I read someone who is a little paranoid, but excited because he's sure he just bagged the day 1 lynch in town's favour.
The other thing is that even with how objectively scummy the first post is, he follows the exact same train of thought that I did regarding Vivax's alignment based solely off of that post. I don't think he puts nearly as much stock in it's reflection on Vivax as I do, but he definitely comes out on the right side of this one by saying that it makes Vivax look townie.
|
Bill Murray, please get in the thread. Right now almost every single read in this thread runs back to the incident that you sparked, so you best get back into the thread and tell us if you were serious about your claim or not so we can start working things out.
|
On April 22 2013 10:44 ShiaoPi wrote:@ObviousOne: Which post are you referring to? This one: + Show Spoiler +On April 20 2013 14:20 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 13:56 Ace wrote: *looks at player list*
*shakes head in a bored way knowing he will lynch Bill Murray with ease Day 1* but but....he is EVIL??!!! or this one: + Show Spoiler +On March 25 2013 17:59 ShiaoPi wrote:I actually wanted to /in but then I saw grush and BM in the playerlist.....not again...never again.../obs or if you want a cohost with an East asian timezone, I'd be up for that too Still got shittons of catching up to do, just saw that as I scrolled over the last page
ShiaoPi, at your earliest possible convenience I would like you to tell me how you feel about Raynepelikoneet, TheRavensName, Hopeless1nder, and one person of your choosing.
I'll accept as low as one sentence on the first 3, but whoever you choose I'd like you to write something of decent size about.
|
On April 22 2013 10:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sharrant what do you think of my & GiygaS' exchange of posts i nthe last two pages?
Truth be told, I haven't got really strong feelings about it one way or the other. I am concerned he did not notice that Hopeless was doing the same thing that he found another person scummy for, but his reaction to being called out on it wasn't particularly telling to me. I will say that at this point it seems likely that the two of you cannot both be mafia.
Is there something you find particularly telling in your exchange that you would like me to think about?
I would like you to pick someone from the player list for us to talk about in any case.
|
Oatsmaster, who are your top 2 lynch candidates today and why?
|
Also, same thing with Yamato, which two people would you lynch right now?
|
Yep! I'm here. What's on your mind?
|
On April 22 2013 11:54 ShiaoPi wrote:Sooo....more or less caught up now. Let's first clarify my stance on BM: I was curious if anyone would just jump on it without too much reasoning. Now on BM in general I loathe his play as it is fucking terrible as town, look at the endgame of LVII for more details. Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 10:56 Sharrant wrote:On April 22 2013 10:44 ShiaoPi wrote:@ObviousOne: Which post are you referring to? This one: + Show Spoiler +On April 20 2013 14:20 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2013 13:56 Ace wrote: *looks at player list*
*shakes head in a bored way knowing he will lynch Bill Murray with ease Day 1* but but....he is EVIL??!!! or this one: + Show Spoiler +On March 25 2013 17:59 ShiaoPi wrote:I actually wanted to /in but then I saw grush and BM in the playerlist.....not again...never again.../obs or if you want a cohost with an East asian timezone, I'd be up for that too Still got shittons of catching up to do, just saw that as I scrolled over the last page ShiaoPi, at your earliest possible convenience I would like you to tell me how you feel about Raynepelikoneet, TheRavensName, Hopeless1nder, and one person of your choosing. I'll accept as low as one sentence on the first 3, but whoever you choose I'd like you to write something of decent size about. Raynepelikoneet: Nothing to see here. TheRavensName: Just some noobing around. Hopeless1nder: Also nothing of note here. There you go, one sentence each. You also asked to have something on someone else with decent size? I CHOOSE YOU SHARRANT! In all seriousness, I do not like the direction your posting is going to: You begin by heaping suspicion on TRN with some crap arguments and drop you vote. I would not take offense if this was just used in terms of pressuring someone who's play you think is lackluster. However you do not even refer to him again as scummy as soon as other people said that they thought he was noob. TRN is absent during this time but even after he returns you seem to have conveniently forgotten his existence when you saw that nothing was sticking. I mean you do not even take into account the post TRN made after he popped back in: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2013 10:32 TheRavensName wrote:Thank you for directing me to the podcast. I ended up listening to it while I did some work and read the thread before having to run off to do some errands. Huge help in making me understand a little bit more. Still not sure I understand how spam is town, but apparently the expliantion is spam is townie... Since basically they said if your really active no one will want to kill you and that seems like good scum motivation too. + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2013 04:56 Sharrant wrote: @TheRavensName Who would you like to lynch right now?
Could you please link me to any games you have played on TL or elsewhere?
Do you think Oats is more likely scum, or more likely town?
Since I was asked, I have been in the last 3 NMM games in a row, your free to find them yourself (Isn't there a big database of games?) but I don't really think I can read into how I playbecause I ended up playing differently all three games. I don't know how Oats plays so I dunno if he really just spams that much at the start, so I will ignore that. I like how he points out the thing about Palmer's town read and trying to act like it was super awesome when it didn't do much so yea.... I feel like its a good point and its the only thing of any real substance in his filter. So, I would like to see something that seems more useful; I don't want to make a judgement off of basically one real point repeated a few points. I would be against lynching Rayn. In one of the Newbie games we played together we were in a similar situation and he took the opportunity to rip through me and just tunnel the entire game, so I think if he was scum this would be unlike him and I feel like I could have been a pretty easy push if he wanted to since he managed to basically do it before off less, even if there are much better people here who could see through it. (Unless he wantsto be my budy. dun dun dun.) In the same vain, I think Sharrant started out by taking a really easy way out of attacking me right out the gate and then just focuses on me and pushes around till hearing a few people saying that I was at least not scum, and then hops on Rayn without any real expliantion besides that hes going after BM for the miller soft claim and the fact that BM seems to be being useless, but that makes Ray more scummy then BM or someone else when Ray is actually being fairly active? So based off what I can figure out, I dislike Sharrant. He was convinced I was vote worthy, then hoped off before I got a chance to respond, but doesn't want to make a comment on BM til lBM shows up. Seems sketchy for me, and would probably be my vote target at the moment, but there is plenty of reading to be done and lots of time for more things to read. Now if I recall correctly your potential scumlist right now should read something like: Rayne, TRN, Sylencia ? Soooo what happened to your read on TRN?
Oh, no, I have been paying close attention to TRN.
But I would like you to be somewhat explicit here before I answer. Are you calling me scum?
Because you've given yourself an out in your post, and I don't like that. Tell me that you think I'm scum, or tell me that you think I'm a townie whose posts you dislike, because right now you've only said you dislike how my posts are going.
|
On April 22 2013 11:59 ShiaoPi wrote: Oh if you have paid close attention to TRN then what is your stance on him now? I am calling you scummy
That he's fairly unimportant in the grand scheme of things, and most likely town.
|
On April 22 2013 11:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:Did you take a look at WoS? You asked me to give us someone to talk about, i responded: Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 11:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah, that and the fact that he didn't vote for Oats in the first place (when he posted last time - his three point post). Suddenly Oats has become a good enough candidate to vote for now, when he has not posted between those posts. I'm interested in knowing what made him change his mind.
Let's talk about WoS. Just read his filter and he is not really seeming to have any strong opinions about anything, just commenting on stuff. What do you think?
WoS is someone I'm not particularly confident in either way. I like that he seems to be stepping on a lot of toes, and getting into a lot of clashes with people. His attitude strikes me as quite carefree, which is usually a town trait, I'd have to look into more games of his to confirm that as I only briefly read him in Hydra II (I think he was with Mr Cheesecake and was town).
I don't like that I feel that I have to read between the lines to figure out who he thinks is scum, and who he thinks is town. I would feel more comfortable with him explicitly stating his reads, as I believe we agree on several town reads.
I do not think he is a good lynch today, most likely not on day 2 either. However if his play continues to skirt around issues I would be more interested in lynching him.
|
On April 22 2013 12:07 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 12:05 Sharrant wrote:On April 22 2013 11:59 ShiaoPi wrote: Oh if you have paid close attention to TRN then what is your stance on him now? I am calling you scummy That he's fairly unimportant in the grand scheme of things, and most likely town. What made you change your mind? This response is terribly lacking....
He realized that Rayn could be setting him up to give him town cred when he flipped. When Rayn stepped in to defend him I was sure TRN was either lynchbait, or one of Rayn's teammates. It seems more likely at this point he is lynchbait. TRN only had a small chance of actually being mafia, but a very good chance of attracting mafia attention either by virtue of A) being a weak player which they can use as town credit or to manipulate or B) was a weak mafia player who they could protect while looking like they're just trying to help out the new player.
Rayn came in with a town read on him whose strength did not match what I had read in TRN's filter, so he was the person I was looking for.
I find it interesting you see nothing at all to discuss between Rayn and Hopeless.
|
On April 22 2013 12:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Wait what Sharrant.. Are you seriously saying that i'm trying to gain credit from town!TRN lynch on D1 as mafia? That's your conclusion?
It was part of the thought process that got me to look at you in the first place. Obviously TRN is not getting lynched so there is no credit for you to gain from it anymore. It is even, apparently, something you told TRN that you would do as mafia (though you did not state you would do it specifically to him).
On April 22 2013 12:32 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 12:24 Sharrant wrote:On April 22 2013 12:07 ShiaoPi wrote:On April 22 2013 12:05 Sharrant wrote:On April 22 2013 11:59 ShiaoPi wrote: Oh if you have paid close attention to TRN then what is your stance on him now? I am calling you scummy That he's fairly unimportant in the grand scheme of things, and most likely town. What made you change your mind? This response is terribly lacking.... He realized that Rayn could be setting him up to give him town cred when he flipped. When Rayn stepped in to defend him I was sure TRN was either lynchbait, or one of Rayn's teammates. It seems more likely at this point he is lynchbait. TRN only had a small chance of actually being mafia, but a very good chance of attracting mafia attention either by virtue of A) being a weak player which they can use as town credit or to manipulate or B) was a weak mafia player who they could protect while looking like they're just trying to help out the new player. Rayn came in with a town read on him whose strength did not match what I had read in TRN's filter, so he was the person I was looking for. I find it interesting you see nothing at all to discuss between Rayn and Hopeless. At least more content than your last answer. If TRN only had a small chance of actually being mafia, why did you vote him? Isn't that fulfilling your own conclusion that you are mafia, by virtue of going after the lynchbait? What the fuck dude? Now what do you make of all the others who also defended TRN? All team mafia?? What do you say about Ace and others who also had a townread (or at least null) on TRN?
You seem to be misinterpreting my definition of small chance. Small chance of being mafia still meant a greater chance than anyone elses actions in the thread. At that point I figured he probably had about a 40 percent chance of being mafia, if I were to assign a value to it. A small chance, but still greater than I felt anyone else had.
So I went after him because he was the strongest scum read I had. When Rayn made these two posts:
On April 22 2013 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 05:48 ObviousOne wrote: One more filter then I'm going to go level my Priest some more.
Oh. My. God. Tube is in this game. LOL. HI TUBE! (we played in a newbie together, my first game! He hasn't posted anything so skipping for now.)
Raynpelikoneet, sorry to pick on you again for like the third straight game in a row together. You want to lynch the "claimed miller" Bill Murray, you have made your stance on lynching millers abundantly clear, but I don't see anything that looks like it's developing into an actual scum read. Why are you leaning so heavily on your policy lynch when there are mafia to be lynched? Also, assume BM isn't here for a moment, who do you lynch? I read BM's post as a miller claim. If it wasn't, he needs to explain this: - What was the purpose of making that post? There is no reason for a townie to say anything that does not lead into finding scum or proving their towniness. I don't see that post achieving either of those things. If the claim was actually real, i want BM to explain why he thought it was a good idea to claim miller D1. Millers should not claim. All it does is that it tells the thread that they will give out a red result if checked by a cop. Why would you be a good cop check in the first place if you are town? You should prove you are town by your actions so that there is no reason for anyone to assume you are mafia, and the cops should check suspicious people instead. Claiming miller on D1 is extremely suspicious because it already shows you are afraid of being checked by a cop. If you are a miller, and are checked, so what? Tough luck, then you claim and town will believe you or not. But the place to claim is not the start of D1. This is not a policy lynch, BM's miller claim post is scummy.
About Sharrant. Sharrant accuses TRN of things. The case in itself is not scummy and i could see someone seeing TRN's posts in that light, i just don't get the same feeling from TRN's posts. Having played with him on NMXXXIX, i can tell that he has no idea how to act in the start of the game. Here he seems to be trying to figure out things and share his thoughts about stuff he is asked about. Fine, why is Sharrant scummy? - He's discussing the "policy lynch BM" matter but does not reach any kind of a conclusion that points towards this particular situation. - Asks TRN about his last games. It's not TRN's job to find those games to him. It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN wasting time on telling him about his last games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that.
On April 22 2013 06:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:43 Vivax wrote:On April 22 2013 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 22 2013 05:48 ObviousOne wrote: One more filter then I'm going to go level my Priest some more.
Oh. My. God. Tube is in this game. LOL. HI TUBE! (we played in a newbie together, my first game! He hasn't posted anything so skipping for now.)
Raynpelikoneet, sorry to pick on you again for like the third straight game in a row together. You want to lynch the "claimed miller" Bill Murray, you have made your stance on lynching millers abundantly clear, but I don't see anything that looks like it's developing into an actual scum read. Why are you leaning so heavily on your policy lynch when there are mafia to be lynched? Also, assume BM isn't here for a moment, who do you lynch? I read BM's post as a miller claim. If it wasn't, he needs to explain this: - What was the purpose of making that post? There is no reason for a townie to say anything that does not lead into finding scum or proving their towniness. I don't see that post achieving either of those things. If the claim was actually real, i want BM to explain why he thought it was a good idea to claim miller D1. Millers should not claim. All it does is that it tells the thread that they will give out a red result if checked by a cop. Why would you be a good cop check in the first place if you are town? You should prove you are town by your actions so that there is no reason for anyone to assume you are mafia, and the cops should check suspicious people instead. Claiming miller on D1 is extremely suspicious because it already shows you are afraid of being checked by a cop. If you are a miller, and are checked, so what? Tough luck, then you claim and town will believe you or not. But the place to claim is not the start of D1. This is not a policy lynch, BM's miller claim post is scummy.
About Sharrant. Sharrant accuses TRN of things. The case in itself is not scummy and i could see someone seeing TRN's posts in that light, i just don't get the same feeling from TRN's posts. Having played with him on NMXXXIX, i can tell that he has no idea how to act in the start of the game. Here he seems to be trying to figure out things and share his thoughts about stuff he is asked about. Fine, why is Sharrant scummy? - He's discussing the "policy lynch BM" matter but does not reach any kind of a conclusion that points towards this particular situation. - Asks TRN about his last games. It's not TRN's job to find those games to him. It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN wasting time on telling him about his last games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that. Where does TRN try to figure out things? Tbh I kinda have you both as scummy along a few others, so your defense of TRN strikes me especially. I don't really see anything that could give me a reason to think he's town, but if you're so kind, could you point it out? Particularly this post of his: + Show Spoiler +On April 21 2013 23:19 TheRavensName wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 23:09 Vivax wrote:On April 21 2013 23:01 TheRavensName wrote:On April 21 2013 22:52 Vivax wrote:On April 21 2013 22:48 TheRavensName wrote:On April 21 2013 22:42 Vivax wrote:On April 21 2013 22:38 TheRavensName wrote: Huh... I was curious to see how big boys start playing the game... and less then a page's worth of posting totals I see an OMGuS. I feel somewhat surprised; apparently the way newbies open mafia games is the right way?
PS: Bill Murray yelling indoors is really mean. Oooo, an omgus, interesting. Are you okay with the way Oats is playing the game? I'm not a 100% sure what hes doing, but if you want to call it playing then... maybe? Truth be told the fact that palmer just randomly takes offense to a baseless acucsation in a game that just started doesn't make a lot of since to me. He's asking for a base to the accusation, precisely. Do you have any ideas to get some discussion started? Your entrance kinda looked like you tried to downplay what's going on in the thread, which in turn makes me think you're trying to communicate reasons for not doing anything. Do you think this description fits your play or did your posts have other purposes? I thought it just genuinely showed disapointment. I've always had difficulty understand what to do at the start of day 1, and I see that there really is no good way to start day 1 in a purely productive way. So I suppose your right, I'm trying to downplay what happens because it doesn't seem productive, unless of course we need to know why Yamato has many weapons that arn' t guns..... And I think its more suspicious to ask in that way rather than, just ask.... seeing as how he didn't even vote baselessly or hasn't made an ssue out of it yet. If we went after everyone who accused someone day 1 just kinda in passing, we'd never get anything resembling a case or something. I don't think Oats would answer even if Palmar just asked, cause Oats rather seems to be trolling and careless about getting something productive out of this day. P said he would vote for him until he heard a proper motivation from Oats to call him scum, nothing followed, so Oats seems to oppose discussion and doesn't want to show his townieness through cooperation. The question is: How do we handle people who don't want to cooperate? Do we threaten Oats with a lynch? Do we ask him nicely to play like someone that puts thought into his posts? /shrug And what will we get out of threatening him at all? What does either lynching him for not liking a posted policy(? (Thats what that was right?)) or becase he just decided to troll actually accomplish (I think this one is more likely)? These are literaly the only responses he could make (That make any logical since and any others should count as trolling really) and I just don't see how either could prove guilt or innocense. But if you feel so strong on making him talk, why arn't you voting for him since apparently one vote isn't going to cut it? I didn't mean he is trying to find mafia. I meant he is trying to find out how to play @ the game start, what to look for and what to call people out for. If you read his exchange with yourself, you should easily figure out he has no clue how to act in the beginning of the game. This does not make him 100% town but i doubt he would be openly expressing his thought about that matter if he was mafia, i think he would be far more cautious about what he says. What makes me scummy in your eyes?
That was a lot more effort than anyone took to explain TRN. Everyone that commented on him, or I asked to comment on him, just stated they thought he was a noob town, but generally people had to be prodded into action.
Rayn came in attacking me with a very weak case because of my case on TRN. At this point, I am very happy because I am sure I have at least one mafia in these 2 players. I am sure after that attack and defense that Rayn is mafia either defending a mafia to deflect a bandwagon before it can start, or defending someone he sees will be lynched later and thus he would be able to go "Hey look, I knew he was town allt he way back then and I defended him!" regardless of whether he was lynched today, or tomorrow, or a week from now. At this point I am 100% sure of Rayn, and 50/50 on TRN.
When TRN came in and said that he had a town read on Rayn despite the inconsistincies myself and others had pointed out, I had TRN down as very likely to be scum. But when he later mentioned how Rayn had told him that he planned to do this exact same thing as scum before, and subsequently moved him to a null read, that was when I was pretty sure that TRN was town.
At this point I am less sure about Rayn being scum than I was then, because his conversations with other players has generally been good since that time, but he's still in my top 3 to lynch. I just haven't decided if there's someone I'd rather lynch more, like say Hopeless.
Any more questions?
|
On April 22 2013 13:26 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 00:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:Sup guys. On April 22 2013 00:08 Vivax wrote: Not sure what to make of BM "claiming" snape like that. If I were to make a crazy guess, he's checking whether the real snape shows up contesting the claim, then say he posted some random shit cause he was drunk (cause that's what his posts look like ). And if the real snape doesn't show up, he will claim he's snape.
That'd be pretty ballsy, but effective scumplay. Let's see what BM has to say regarding this. What's in your opinion the point of doing this as we can't know how many of each roles are in the game? If there is someone who claims snape, why can't BM be another one? TRN and Palmar are probably town. i was making a joke about his stupid sounding name it wasn't a serious claim whatsoever this is why the internet is not good for tone.
And with that, I'm going to bed... Good night, everyone.
|
It's a good try, Rayne, but no.
Let's get this out of the way quickly because I have to leave, and there's more important things to do when I'm back.
The reason I looked into you is because of your chainsaw defense of TRN. That fit exactly what I was looking for, so I went through your filter.
I am not trying to lynch you on the merit of you defending TRN, get that through your head. I am going to get you lynched because you are scum. You claim that after posting several times about how miller claims should be a policy lynch, you say that it's not a policy lynch you're pushing on BM. The closest you come to make to a case is "This isn't a miller lynch policy, I'm lynching him because he claimed miller which is scummy" which is exactly the same as saying "No, this isn't a lurker lynch, I'm just lynching because his low activity is scummy". It's just attempting to disguise that you were trying to policy lynch him.
The post I voted for you details exactly why I have you as a scum read. The possibility that you were a townie who made some crazy defense on TRN went out the window when I read through your filter.
If you can't understand that, I can't help you.
|
Okay, let's get this started with the most important part:
Clarity should be lynched tomorrow, a few people have made cases on why, and they're quite right. He apparently spent 4 hours reading the thread and came up with not even half a case on me, and refused to comment on the lynch that was happening right in front of his eyes all the while flip flopping on the amount of time and effort he supposedly put in.
He's obvious enough at this point that everyone should be on board with his lynch, I don't think there's more that needs to be said about him.
Responses to cases and stuff:
@Clarity There's nothing in your case to respond to. You obviously just skimmed my filter and tried to pick out what you could skew to look mafia oriented, and you failed miserably at that.
@Rayne
+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2013 15:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:About Sharrant:First he makes a case on TRN. The case in itself is not bad if you have never seen how TRN plays. But there is this question: I call him out for this question which i find to be scummy. Sharrant's answer is: Show nested quote +The last part of your case is even weaker, I don't think it even needs to be touched upon. Sharrant later on calls me out for saying; "So you say TRN is actually not attempting to discern who in the thread are the mafia, but you still have a town read on him. Townies should scum hunt, yes?". This is correct, mainly because Sharrant and Vivax both attacked TRN early on in the game, after that TRN went defensive and answered their questions. Sharrant is even adding more fuel into the fire by asking TRN to point him to his games on TL. Why do you think it is TRN's (or anyone other than yours) job to guide you into his past games? And why do you call me out for poining out the fact (as i have witnessed it myself) that TRN is easy to sidetrack from what he is supposed to do -> find mafia?Next thing. Sharrant's case on me. His points against me are; BM-policy lynch discussion (understandable as i failed to explain myself clearly enough) and that i called him scummy for asking TRN to point him to his last games. Which i still think is scummy. Next i explain him my BM vote, he is pleased with my answer, at least that reads so to me. + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2013 08:40 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 08:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:Sharrant:What is your exact reasoning for voting for BM. Give me one paragraph, with your thought process. If it's policy, tell me it's policy and the exact policy. If you have other reasoning for it, please detail that reasoning to the best of your ability. I think there is no reason for a townie to claim miller for the reasons i explained before. If BM was not in fact claiming miller, he should have a damn good reason why he decided to post what he did, because posting (joking?) that as town does not make any sense. I see. I'll wait until Bill Murray is back in the thread before I say anything more about this then, if I feel the need to say anything more.Let's give ourselves another topic then. Pick a player who you would like to discuss with me, and I will read their filter while I cook and eat. I would suggest Mr. Cheesecake, but I would prefer it if you picked the candidate for discussion. In the same quote he asks me to pick a player to discuss. Why do you want me, your scumread to pick a player to discuss? If i thought you were scum i would be damn sure i wanted to pick the people we discuss (other scummy people).After that we discuss WoS and GiygaS. I also ask him about geript. I am the one asking all the questions. Note that Sharrant would have liked to discuss Mr.Cheesecake. If i am your scumread, why do you allow me to drive the discussion between us? Why do you not want to find out my scumbuddies when talking with me?Then Sharrant suddenly changes his scumread on TRN into null/leaning town. The reason is TRN saying i have told him i would use weak townies as town-credit-collectors by defending them. Sharrant takes this at face value. TRN was your scumread at that time, why didn't you take any action to figure out if he was telling the truth or not, as he wasn't?Then comes in his theory (based on what TRN said) about me trying to gain town-credit for TRN's lynch. The theory is ridiculous in the first place, if people can't see why idk what to say. He also makes a big post about it: + Show Spoiler +On April 22 2013 13:26 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 12:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Wait what Sharrant.. Are you seriously saying that i'm trying to gain credit from town!TRN lynch on D1 as mafia? That's your conclusion? It was part of the thought process that got me to look at you in the first place. Obviously TRN is not getting lynched so there is no credit for you to gain from it anymore. It is even, apparently, something you told TRN that you would do as mafia (though you did not state you would do it specifically to him). Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 12:32 ShiaoPi wrote:On April 22 2013 12:24 Sharrant wrote:On April 22 2013 12:07 ShiaoPi wrote:On April 22 2013 12:05 Sharrant wrote:On April 22 2013 11:59 ShiaoPi wrote: Oh if you have paid close attention to TRN then what is your stance on him now? I am calling you scummy That he's fairly unimportant in the grand scheme of things, and most likely town. What made you change your mind? This response is terribly lacking.... He realized that Rayn could be setting him up to give him town cred when he flipped. When Rayn stepped in to defend him I was sure TRN was either lynchbait, or one of Rayn's teammates. It seems more likely at this point he is lynchbait. TRN only had a small chance of actually being mafia, but a very good chance of attracting mafia attention either by virtue of A) being a weak player which they can use as town credit or to manipulate or B) was a weak mafia player who they could protect while looking like they're just trying to help out the new player. Rayn came in with a town read on him whose strength did not match what I had read in TRN's filter, so he was the person I was looking for. I find it interesting you see nothing at all to discuss between Rayn and Hopeless. At least more content than your last answer. If TRN only had a small chance of actually being mafia, why did you vote him? Isn't that fulfilling your own conclusion that you are mafia, by virtue of going after the lynchbait? What the fuck dude? Now what do you make of all the others who also defended TRN? All team mafia?? What do you say about Ace and others who also had a townread (or at least null) on TRN? You seem to be misinterpreting my definition of small chance. Small chance of being mafia still meant a greater chance than anyone elses actions in the thread. At that point I figured he probably had about a 40 percent chance of being mafia, if I were to assign a value to it. A small chance, but still greater than I felt anyone else had. So I went after him because he was the strongest scum read I had. When Rayn made these two posts: Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 22 2013 05:48 ObviousOne wrote: One more filter then I'm going to go level my Priest some more.
Oh. My. God. Tube is in this game. LOL. HI TUBE! (we played in a newbie together, my first game! He hasn't posted anything so skipping for now.)
Raynpelikoneet, sorry to pick on you again for like the third straight game in a row together. You want to lynch the "claimed miller" Bill Murray, you have made your stance on lynching millers abundantly clear, but I don't see anything that looks like it's developing into an actual scum read. Why are you leaning so heavily on your policy lynch when there are mafia to be lynched? Also, assume BM isn't here for a moment, who do you lynch? I read BM's post as a miller claim. If it wasn't, he needs to explain this: - What was the purpose of making that post? There is no reason for a townie to say anything that does not lead into finding scum or proving their towniness. I don't see that post achieving either of those things. If the claim was actually real, i want BM to explain why he thought it was a good idea to claim miller D1. Millers should not claim. All it does is that it tells the thread that they will give out a red result if checked by a cop. Why would you be a good cop check in the first place if you are town? You should prove you are town by your actions so that there is no reason for anyone to assume you are mafia, and the cops should check suspicious people instead. Claiming miller on D1 is extremely suspicious because it already shows you are afraid of being checked by a cop. If you are a miller, and are checked, so what? Tough luck, then you claim and town will believe you or not. But the place to claim is not the start of D1. This is not a policy lynch, BM's miller claim post is scummy.
About Sharrant. Sharrant accuses TRN of things. The case in itself is not scummy and i could see someone seeing TRN's posts in that light, i just don't get the same feeling from TRN's posts. Having played with him on NMXXXIX, i can tell that he has no idea how to act in the start of the game. Here he seems to be trying to figure out things and share his thoughts about stuff he is asked about. Fine, why is Sharrant scummy? - He's discussing the "policy lynch BM" matter but does not reach any kind of a conclusion that points towards this particular situation. - Asks TRN about his last games. It's not TRN's job to find those games to him. It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN wasting time on telling him about his last games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that. Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 22 2013 06:43 Vivax wrote:On April 22 2013 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 22 2013 05:48 ObviousOne wrote: One more filter then I'm going to go level my Priest some more.
Oh. My. God. Tube is in this game. LOL. HI TUBE! (we played in a newbie together, my first game! He hasn't posted anything so skipping for now.)
Raynpelikoneet, sorry to pick on you again for like the third straight game in a row together. You want to lynch the "claimed miller" Bill Murray, you have made your stance on lynching millers abundantly clear, but I don't see anything that looks like it's developing into an actual scum read. Why are you leaning so heavily on your policy lynch when there are mafia to be lynched? Also, assume BM isn't here for a moment, who do you lynch? I read BM's post as a miller claim. If it wasn't, he needs to explain this: - What was the purpose of making that post? There is no reason for a townie to say anything that does not lead into finding scum or proving their towniness. I don't see that post achieving either of those things. If the claim was actually real, i want BM to explain why he thought it was a good idea to claim miller D1. Millers should not claim. All it does is that it tells the thread that they will give out a red result if checked by a cop. Why would you be a good cop check in the first place if you are town? You should prove you are town by your actions so that there is no reason for anyone to assume you are mafia, and the cops should check suspicious people instead. Claiming miller on D1 is extremely suspicious because it already shows you are afraid of being checked by a cop. If you are a miller, and are checked, so what? Tough luck, then you claim and town will believe you or not. But the place to claim is not the start of D1. This is not a policy lynch, BM's miller claim post is scummy.
About Sharrant. Sharrant accuses TRN of things. The case in itself is not scummy and i could see someone seeing TRN's posts in that light, i just don't get the same feeling from TRN's posts. Having played with him on NMXXXIX, i can tell that he has no idea how to act in the start of the game. Here he seems to be trying to figure out things and share his thoughts about stuff he is asked about. Fine, why is Sharrant scummy? - He's discussing the "policy lynch BM" matter but does not reach any kind of a conclusion that points towards this particular situation. - Asks TRN about his last games. It's not TRN's job to find those games to him. It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN wasting time on telling him about his last games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that. Where does TRN try to figure out things? Tbh I kinda have you both as scummy along a few others, so your defense of TRN strikes me especially. I don't really see anything that could give me a reason to think he's town, but if you're so kind, could you point it out? Particularly this post of his: + Show Spoiler +On April 21 2013 23:19 TheRavensName wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 23:09 Vivax wrote:On April 21 2013 23:01 TheRavensName wrote:On April 21 2013 22:52 Vivax wrote:On April 21 2013 22:48 TheRavensName wrote:On April 21 2013 22:42 Vivax wrote:On April 21 2013 22:38 TheRavensName wrote: Huh... I was curious to see how big boys start playing the game... and less then a page's worth of posting totals I see an OMGuS. I feel somewhat surprised; apparently the way newbies open mafia games is the right way?
PS: Bill Murray yelling indoors is really mean. Oooo, an omgus, interesting. Are you okay with the way Oats is playing the game? I'm not a 100% sure what hes doing, but if you want to call it playing then... maybe? Truth be told the fact that palmer just randomly takes offense to a baseless acucsation in a game that just started doesn't make a lot of since to me. He's asking for a base to the accusation, precisely. Do you have any ideas to get some discussion started? Your entrance kinda looked like you tried to downplay what's going on in the thread, which in turn makes me think you're trying to communicate reasons for not doing anything. Do you think this description fits your play or did your posts have other purposes? I thought it just genuinely showed disapointment. I've always had difficulty understand what to do at the start of day 1, and I see that there really is no good way to start day 1 in a purely productive way. So I suppose your right, I'm trying to downplay what happens because it doesn't seem productive, unless of course we need to know why Yamato has many weapons that arn' t guns..... And I think its more suspicious to ask in that way rather than, just ask.... seeing as how he didn't even vote baselessly or hasn't made an ssue out of it yet. If we went after everyone who accused someone day 1 just kinda in passing, we'd never get anything resembling a case or something. I don't think Oats would answer even if Palmar just asked, cause Oats rather seems to be trolling and careless about getting something productive out of this day. P said he would vote for him until he heard a proper motivation from Oats to call him scum, nothing followed, so Oats seems to oppose discussion and doesn't want to show his townieness through cooperation. The question is: How do we handle people who don't want to cooperate? Do we threaten Oats with a lynch? Do we ask him nicely to play like someone that puts thought into his posts? /shrug And what will we get out of threatening him at all? What does either lynching him for not liking a posted policy(? (Thats what that was right?)) or becase he just decided to troll actually accomplish (I think this one is more likely)? These are literaly the only responses he could make (That make any logical since and any others should count as trolling really) and I just don't see how either could prove guilt or innocense. But if you feel so strong on making him talk, why arn't you voting for him since apparently one vote isn't going to cut it? I didn't mean he is trying to find mafia. I meant he is trying to find out how to play @ the game start, what to look for and what to call people out for. If you read his exchange with yourself, you should easily figure out he has no clue how to act in the beginning of the game. This does not make him 100% town but i doubt he would be openly expressing his thought about that matter if he was mafia, i think he would be far more cautious about what he says. What makes me scummy in your eyes? That was a lot more effort than anyone took to explain TRN. Everyone that commented on him, or I asked to comment on him, just stated they thought he was a noob town, but generally people had to be prodded into action. Rayn came in attacking me with a very weak case because of my case on TRN. At this point, I am very happy because I am sure I have at least one mafia in these 2 players. I am sure after that attack and defense that Rayn is mafia either defending a mafia to deflect a bandwagon before it can start, or defending someone he sees will be lynched later and thus he would be able to go "Hey look, I knew he was town allt he way back then and I defended him!" regardless of whether he was lynched today, or tomorrow, or a week from now. At this point I am 100% sure of Rayn, and 50/50 on TRN. When TRN came in and said that he had a town read on Rayn despite the inconsistincies myself and others had pointed out, I had TRN down as very likely to be scum. But when he later mentioned how Rayn had told him that he planned to do this exact same thing as scum before, and subsequently moved him to a null read, that was when I was pretty sure that TRN was town. At this point I am less sure about Rayn being scum than I was then, because his conversations with other players has generally been good since that time, but he's still in my top 3 to lynch. I just haven't decided if there's someone I'd rather lynch more, like say Hopeless. Any more questions? At the end of that post he also says his scumread on me has weakened. After that i vote for Sharrant. This is his answer to the case: + Show Spoiler +On April 23 2013 00:02 Sharrant wrote: It's a good try, Rayne, but no.
Let's get this out of the way quickly because I have to leave, and there's more important things to do when I'm back.
The reason I looked into you is because of your chainsaw defense of TRN. That fit exactly what I was looking for, so I went through your filter.
I am not trying to lynch you on the merit of you defending TRN, get that through your head. I am going to get you lynched because you are scum. You claim that after posting several times about how miller claims should be a policy lynch, you say that it's not a policy lynch you're pushing on BM. The closest you come to make to a case is "This isn't a miller lynch policy, I'm lynching him because he claimed miller which is scummy" which is exactly the same as saying "No, this isn't a lurker lynch, I'm just lynching because his low activity is scummy". It's just attempting to disguise that you were trying to policy lynch him.
The post I voted for you details exactly why I have you as a scum read. The possibility that you were a townie who made some crazy defense on TRN went out the window when I read through your filter.
If you can't understand that, I can't help you. Now, suddenly i am 100% scum again. But no more is my town-credit-gaining a reason why i am scum. It's all back to the point that i "disguised my policy lynch vote on BM into something else". But he was already okay with my answer. Hell, he does not even answer anything to my case. Why did you make a big post about the theory of me trying to gain credit from defending town!TRN, if it isn't even part of the case against me, what's the point? TLDR;1) Why did you not answer me clearly when i asked you why should TRN point you to his past games? And he never did, why didn't you follow it up in any way, if you think that was scummy from him? 2) Why did you say you were pleased with my answer on the BM matter and later on said your whole case against me is based on that? 3) Why did you not want to find out who my "scumbuddies" are when we were discussing people, and why did you let me drive the discussion? 4) Why did you take TRN's words about my "scum strategy" at face value as at that time he was your scumread? 5) Why did you even discuss your theory about me trying to gain credit from TRN when it had apparently nothing to do with your scumread on me and was based on false premises in the first place which you were too lazy to check out and which came from you scumread? And for the record this is basically everything Sharrant has done this game besides one post where he answers Vivax about Hopeless and couple of posts questioning people with no follow ups at all. I don't see how this is anything near townie behaviour. 1. It's laughable that yous till think that asking for games is a scum tell, but run with it if it makes you happy. He did point me to his games, just not linked them. Not as helpful as I would have hoped he would have been, but he didn't mention any games off site which was the concern.
2. I never stated I was pleased with your answer. I asked you to restate so everyone would see that your answers still did not match up with what you had said earlier in the thread. Pushing that singular point any more would just make the thread more of a mess than it was starting to be, and the whole point would get lost and thus once I had you restate it again clearly there was no more value to be gained from going after you on that point at that time. So instead, I wanted to move you onto topics that would be helpful regardless of whether I was wrong or right about your alignment.
3. The choice of who to talk about is as telling as the choice of who not to talk about, I'll learn more about your alignment from you picking who you want to discuss then I will from giving you the topics I want you to discuss. It tells you too much about how I already lean on those topics, and having you drive the discussion lets me get a better feel for you.
4. I'm really surprised you don't get this part. Lots of newer scum buddy people, especially people that defend them. Here he shows that he's suspicious of the fact that you defended him, regardless of whether the fact he stated was misremembered (apparently someone else in that game had said it) he showed that his thought process went "Hey! This guy has taken up a shield for me" -> "Wait, why did he do that?" When as a new scum scared to be in his first big game would have been more hesitant to put any tarnish on his knight's armour.
5. You're mixing up your time periods so bad that this question is just a jumble of words. Your staunch defense of him got me to check out your filter. His subsequent "Hey, why are you defending me?" moment made him more than likely town.
@WaveofShadows
On April 24 2013 06:27 WaveofShadow wrote: Hey Sharrant, where you at bro? Any thoughts on yamato/Oats since you seem to have conveniently missed it entirely? Updated thoughts on Rayn/Shiao?
I think Oats was a good lynch because of how useless he was being, it's a shame he turned out to be town, but at least he was a non-self aware miller. That said, I think there were better lynches for that day, Clarity and Rayne being two I think would have been better lynches.
Yamato is almost definitely town, everything about his posts on the second half of day one scream town yamato in a way I don't think he knows how to replicate as scum. Last time I played with him when he was scum I caught him (but was not able to get him lynched before I was killed) because of how glaring the difference is between him being the townie, headstrong Yamato and him trying to emulate the townie headstrong Yamato.
I hope that satisfies your curiousity.
If there was one or two things in particular that lead you to have such a strong town read on me, what would they be?
I'm going to be around for a while doing some filter diving in, so I'm available for questions. It is very likely that I will be unavailable for Thursday, and possibly some or all of Friday (excepting phone posting which I hate hate hate doing). There will be 0 posts from me between midnight tonight, and Thursday night.
|
Is there anyone around who feels like chatting? I don't want to put up any large posts until it's just about daybreak (which I think is in about 2 and a half hours if someone could confirm).
|
On April 25 2013 01:28 Sylencia wrote:CC - Kush Town Voted Getmoript due to wishy washyness Unvoted due to incident. Leaned towards oats based on effort. Wants to lynch ShiaoPi Sharrent Town read Note: Mentions being town billions of times WaveOfShadow: VE Town Read Voted Getmoript due to answer dodging Unvoted due to incident. Becomes a bit suspicious of VE due to lack of posting. Sharrant town read Suspicious of ShiaoPi due to attack on Sharrant Reinforced Sharrant town read grush: bandwagons yamato suspects gigyas due to bandwagon. a lot of off topic comments Note: I'm suspicious of grush here for his hypocritical reasoning: Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 04:42 grush57 wrote: Gigyas
He literally reposts what others say a page later and contributes jack shit to get on a bandwagon between 2 town players, yamato and oats. He also screams scummy through the power of starsenses. Yet his bandwagon: Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 05:01 grush57 wrote: I guess I didn't because I'm not sure yet of who to lynch and who would get lynched. I would glady do it though. When asked about whether he would vote Yamato. Tube: ??? Drazak: Has posted, but has never returned since. Giygas: Suspected Oats due to attitude and lack of posts. Hopeless not suspected as scum Sharrant town read Would've supported yamato lynch if hammertime. Sylencia: Semi-suspected TRN due to the rayn defense provided Suspects Rayn due to inconsistent statements about miller lynch / scum suspicion of BM Wagoned on Oats due to lack of town contribution from Oats. VisceraEyes: Early on uneasy about Palmar. Voted getmoript for bad case against yamato (?) Suspected yamato due to "Oh well you know my posting was INTENTIONALLY bad". types of posts voted BM due to his response to BC (quote is below) Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 07:51 Bill Murray wrote: first off, i was just scum with him, and i don't think he's scum this game what makes the bolded so bad? i don't see it. that's actually when it started getting a more lilting tone, and felt like he was trying to be big-papa-bear, to me Note: I don't see what is so bad about this post in general, apparently it comes off as antagonistic. Switches to yamato a few hours later without ever mentioning BM again, despite already getting a response from him and being responded to with a request for an explanation. Says he can get behind an Oats lynch. Only now does he decide to actually read yamato's filter. (Vote was originally pure omgus) switches to oats for original suspicion of oats (2 points above) Note: Reading the filter and looking at some of the points in context such as the argument for BM has made me feel rather suspicious towards VE. Now, I will continue going through everyone's filters for their suspicions and other points tomorrow if I am still alive (public holiday hooray), but from what I have seen as of so far, I would like opinions on VE and grush (am I missing something about grush gameplay here?) Also, I fully know well that filter dive posts doesn't show anything about alignment, so no need to mention that too thx
Hey, Sylencia, glad to see you around. It looks like you put in a lot of work going through filters, but I don't see a lot of reads, just a lot of summary. Is this a list of your top suspects or just a collection of players? Because at one point you actually mention yourself on your list, and that just seems a little strange to me.
I can tell you've got a scum read on VE, and at least a bit of a scum read on Grush, does this mean the other players are also suspicious in your eyes or are they town or null? I'm just having a bit of trouble making heads or tails of it all.
|
On April 25 2013 01:34 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 01:29 Sharrant wrote: Is there anyone around who feels like chatting? I don't want to put up any large posts until it's just about daybreak (which I think is in about 2 and a half hours if someone could confirm). Night 1 ends in ~ 2,5 hours at 19:00 GMT (+00:00)! Please remember to get in all night actions to Blazinghand and all 3 co-hosts!
Thank you!
On April 25 2013 01:32 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 01:29 Sharrant wrote: Is there anyone around who feels like chatting? I don't want to put up any large posts until it's just about daybreak (which I think is in about 2 and a half hours if someone could confirm). I'm sort of around, yes. Was about to fire up some D3 for unmitigable demon slaughter for a few but if you have something you want to talk out bring it up before I go fullscreen!
Are you one of the people that believes in hosts attempting to balance player skill between scum and town teams?
|
On April 25 2013 01:38 WaveofShadow wrote: Let's chat about how useless kush and Sylencia's posts are. Like...why even post?
Kush is so town it's not even funny. Sylencia I'm really sure about, I want him to explain that post more.
|
EBWOP: Sylencia I'm not really sure about*
|
|
|
|