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On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
I first want to say that this thread is spammed up to almost the point of unreadable... This is not how Town wins games. Secondly, out of the current lynch candidates, here are my opinions:
VisceraEyes: I was leaning scum before and he hasn't really done anything to change my mind besides participating a little bit more. To be on the safe side, I'll say null with a red tinge.
Keirathi: Null atm, nothing pointing him at being scum, but don't want to say definitely townie so soon. I just played in RTP with him and he seems to be playing rather similarly, so if I had to pick I'd say town.
Restraining Order: Very difficult to read, so I'll wait to see more of him and on him.
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
##Vote: StrongandBig
Safe side of what?
If you're town, why do you need to be on the safe side of ANYTHING? Just state your opinion, and then either reevaluate when necessary or be wrong. Its scum who are worried about how their reads make them look.
You scum?
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EBWOP:
Oh, what the fuck.
On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit.
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On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all.
So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle.
And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.)
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On April 07 2013 15:33 Shelvocke wrote:I don't really think rayn is mafia. His play does look different from those town quotes you had, but it doesn't look like that mafia game either. The only part of that game where he just suddenly jumps is the part where he votes for Krefla and even then he has a reason because Krefla just came in right before the deadline. The fact that he seems a lot more impulsive in this game than he has been before is something that points to him being town. I feel he would be a lot more careful and safe as mafia. The plan switch looks kind of strange, but his overall attitude makes him more likely town.
I've thought about it from that angle as well. But I run into a problem:
On March 30 2013 10:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 10:21 marvellosity wrote:
Apparently rayn is mafia in XXXIX
this makes me think considerably worse of him here (sorry man)
see you all tomorrow wow, a meta case on me. I play the same as town or mafia, believe or not, jsut that my intentions are different. But go on and expand this, you have been willing to do this a while anyways. I'm willing to hear that.
On April 01 2013 05:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 03:57 Keirathi wrote:On April 01 2013 03:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:I'm feeling a bit better about Rayn now that he's decided to talk more about his role. His shots make me want to yell at him though, but I'm not sure if I want to lynch him for it yet. You srsly think there is a possibility that i am scum and shot my teammate? To be fair, I think there is a *possibility* that you did. However, I don't find it *likely* that you did. But Acro was dead either way. If you are scum, you might as well shoot him and get town cred to ride to the easy win. The question really comes down to "Does scum rayn have the balls to pull it off?" I can tell you that scum!rayn would have the balls to do stuff like that. Don't you think it would be a bit OP for mafia to have an incredibly powerful vote-rigger (given that Palmar had the double lynch power) and a multi-shot anonymous vigi?
Those are some more quotes from Red Team. Which leads me to believe that rayn is incredibly confident in his own scum play, and therefore wouldn't necessarily play careful or safe and that he would take risks that helped him win.
I dunno though. I'll think about it some more, and see what he has to say.
For now, I'm going to sleep though. G'nite!
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@gonzaw:
I just don't find your case all the convincing, tbh. I think the strongest point you make is the one about the needless complaining about the thread (and maybe a bit about the geript case), but I don't think that is enough to lynch him on. Most of your other points are just comparing him to other players, which is useless and futile. Artanis is not yamato, or rayn, or Sharrant, or me, or VE, or whoever else you compared him to. He's Artanis, and will play like Artanis, not anyone else.
And about the "fake" aggression, I just flat out disagree with that whole section. I took a look back at British since people were talking about it, and he does that same kind of thing as town. Calls out a post, then antagonizes people for disagreeing with him or not commenting on it. Then moved on or keeps pressuring it, as appropriate.
Overall, I'm not particularly interested in lynching Artanis today.
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On April 08 2013 05:02 geript wrote:
Keirathi, how do you feel about VE not really pushing himself to the forefront at all?
I already said what I thought about VE. That, at least up until this point, he isn't doing one of his tradition scum tactics. Until he does, I have no interest in lynching him.
Not pushing himself to the forefront can be a combination of tons of things that aren't alignment indicative; being busy, uninterested, etc. And hell, even scum VE tries to push himself into the forefront of (most) games.
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On April 08 2013 05:23 geript wrote:
Ok Kei, how well do you know Caller.
I don't know Caller at all. Never played with him, or read any game that he played in. All i know about him is that he hosts games that never end :o
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@gonzaw:
I don't think there's anyone worth shooting right now. Not with 28 hours still left in the day.
So you still think Artanis is a good lynch? Do you not agree with my counterpoints?
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@rayn: good, you're back
First: ##Unvote
Now, let's talk a bit:
On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend.
What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement.
On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself?
You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently.
You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder.
Let's look at the progression, exactly:
On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc.
On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5.
On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then:
On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles.
geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here.
On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part..
Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!"
YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off.
On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are.
It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different?
On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now.
Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out.
On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them.
I already addressed that.
No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind.
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On April 08 2013 08:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why are you unvoting me me if my answers do not please you?
BECAUSE I'M THE MOTHERFUCKING JUGGERNAUT, BITCH.
No, but in all seriousness, it's because (as I alluded to earlier in the post when I unvoted), I wanted to have a logical conversation. I didn't want you to be on your back foot, so to speak, so that you wouldn't be defensive/etc. I wanted genuine explanations, in short, to decide if I could believe them or not. Not half-ass explanations because you are scared of what you say.
I like that post much more, btw.
Looking elsewhere for now.
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On April 08 2013 11:25 ObviousOne wrote:
Woah are you guys accusing me of thinking? You give me too much credit.
Why are you just brushing those points against you off?
Particularly the one where you tell people not to spam, then proceed to spam yourself. Explain, please.
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On April 08 2013 12:36 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 12:26 Keirathi wrote:On April 08 2013 11:25 ObviousOne wrote:
Woah are you guys accusing me of thinking? You give me too much credit. Why are you just brushing those points against you off? Particularly the one where you tell people not to spam, then proceed to spam yourself. Explain, please. I am so terribly bored. Caller was exciting for a few minutes I guess. Why should I respond to any of the cases against me? Is it a requirement? My response to them is: lol This is a normal ass normal game. I expected nukes and day-KP and general chaos. Zero fun to be had. So adieu I'm going to watch a movie. I've voted and posted and fulfilled my contractual obligations for day 1. Later.
Fuck that attitude. So much.
Why are you doing something (in this case, laughing off a case) that you believe is scummy?
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On April 08 2013 12:49 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 12:46 Mocsta wrote:On April 08 2013 12:45 Sharrant wrote:
I'm pretty much 100% sure that that was an assassin kill. Gonzaw pretty much gave away his role earlier when he was figuring that he could withhold his shot today and have any possibility of surviving until the next day and being able to shoot. This makes Sinani look worse for fishing for his role now that it is fairly likely that scum have an assassin.
It is possible that he was day vigi'd, but that is much much less likely in my opinion. Day-Vig requires something typed into thread. The thing is.. so many roles have day vig america russia dayvig jack i dunno. i find it unlikely the assassin was willing to risk getting the role wrong.. (cos that will make the power void) i might look through gonzaw filter for crumb. because right now.. i suspect NRA is much higher the question then becomes.. who did he try to kill... artanis or VE Are you 100% sure that Day vigs have to claim their shot in the thread? Do dayvigs have to claim in the thread?Please be around the thread for the next couple minutes, Mocsta, it's very important to me.
They do. It says so in the OP.
During the day you may type ##Kill: Player in the thread. That player is going to die and the day goes on. You can only shoot once.
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So yea, Mocsta is (kinda) right.
America, Russia, and Day-Vig are ruled out.
I don't see Assassin gambling his power on gonzaw unless he found a lock tight crumb. And, if there is a solid crumb, that (maybe?) opens up the possibility of a BloodC0bbler too.
NRA would make some sense, but gonzaw was claiming that he wasn't shooting even as the shot post came up. And who knows how long ago the shot was actually sent in and it took BC to get here and post the death.
Meh.
Looking back through filters a bit.
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Oh hmm. I guess you are right Sharrant. It specifically says that Jack skills are bound by the same rules as its regular counterparts.
I honestly hadn't thought about it, and assumed that Jack sent in day kills silently, since his night vig kills would be silent.
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On April 08 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:03 Keirathi wrote:
Oh hmm. I guess you are right Sharrant. It specifically says that Jack skills are bound by the same rules as its regular counterparts.
I honestly hadn't thought about it, and assumed that Jack sent in day kills silently, since his night vig kills would be silent. Keirathi, pls comment on my reversal of sharrant, where he knew that the assassin was the logical choice. Yet didnt even know how day-vig worked etc.
I admit it's weird.
On April 08 2013 13:10 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:On April 08 2013 13:03 Keirathi wrote:
Oh hmm. I guess you are right Sharrant. It specifically says that Jack skills are bound by the same rules as its regular counterparts.
I honestly hadn't thought about it, and assumed that Jack sent in day kills silently, since his night vig kills would be silent. Keirathi, pls comment on my reversal of sharrant, where he knew that the assassin was the logical choice. Yet didnt even know how day-vig worked etc. I feel like you're trying to put suspicion on me, there's a reason I asked in the thread if day vig had to claim his shot. I was unaware of that restriction so thought dayvig could have been in play, but you said it couldn't have been because of the claim. So when Keirathi showed you were indeed correct, it showed that there was only one possible way he could have died, and you had enough information to know that too but you came to the wrong conclusion. Perhaps it was an earnest oversight on your part, but you should have known immediately. The fact you had referenced it so recently but failed to take it into consideration is suspicious. That you're trying to turn this around on me like that makes it doubly so to me.
Then why are you not pressuring me? I also said that NRA was a possibility, and I'm the one that told you that day-vig had to type it in thread.
But that's mostly irrelevant. The bigger question is why were you thinking so hard about what gonzaw's role was in the post you quoted?
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On April 08 2013 13:24 Sharrant wrote:
IE Knowing that Gonzaw could not have been dayvigged because there was no shot in the thread, but not knowing that Gonzaw could not have shot because he did not write it in the thread. But you never stated anything similar
What? That's exactly what I said, in not so many words.
I thought NRA was a perfectly possibly explanation for why gonzaw was dead, meaning that I thought gonzaw shot and hit NRA. You're right, I didn't think about gonzaw having to use a Jack day-vig in the thread, but I said basically the exact same thing mocsta did.
On April 08 2013 13:24 Sharrant wrote:
And to answer your question, that was not thinking very hard. It was just fairly obvious as soon as he stated he would most likely withhold his shot. If he had no protection or night shot then he was forced to shoot today or have wasted his role. I think it's pretty simple to deduce from that post.
Meh, whatever. This point is hard to argue, I just think it's weird that you put enough thought into it to correctly deduce that he was Jack. Because when I saw all his posts claiming to have day KP, I didn't care at all about what his role was. I personally spent some time trying to figure out if I thought he was town or not, and once I decided that he probably was I quit thinking about his role because it didn't concern me.
Just weird. Mental bookmark for later, if needed.
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Not interested in Oats at all.
Sometime I learned from the last 2 games where Oats was town and I lynched him (or at least, really wanted to): when Oats is in your face and every post he makes is annoying and you want to e-punch him, he's probably town.
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Bleh, I got drafted into helping my mom in the garden today. So I probably wont be around for a few more hours. Some quick comments:
1) Artanis: His recent play feels more townie, and I thought he was a coinflip at best even before gonzaw died. Not sure why Caller (apparently) killed him. I (still) don't like him as a lynch candidate today even if Caller didn't kill him.
2) Caller: I hate everything about his play, but the fact remains that if Caller is Showtime! and used it now, on Artanis or all people, just doesn't make much sense from scum. Possible, but not likely scum IMO.
3) VE: He still hasn't done his classic scum tell that I mentioned, but he's also not done ANYTHING. With geript claiming that NRA was taken already b spot 6, VE is a valid option for having chosen it (Shelvocke too, since he's obviously a smurf of someone who is at least familiar with older games). I'm just not sure about him at all...if he did take NRA as scum, his play would make a lot of sense. Maybe we lynch him.
4) Shelvocke: MZ + austin had good points. I could get behind a Shelvocke lynch.
5) Sinani: Very possibly scum. I pointed out his weird "playing it safe" quote, and also how he described S&B as trying to direct the thread to justify his vote. He then came back to neither answer my questions nor expound on anything else (including his own reads), just to ask gonzaw his role and tell gonzaw to shoot BM. If not lynch today, then tomorrow.
Anyways, be back in a few hours.
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EPT
