nevermind. but 3rd parties should be lynched just as fast as "Scum". Reminds me of Townies letting claimed Serial Killers live because they "promise to help the side of good"

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 01:38 GMT

#3171

How were you planning to use 3rd party? lol? If they can recruit players they'd just allow you to lynch Mafia and tell you to kick rocks when you somehow ask them to vote "with the Town". That isn't going to happen.

There are two anti-town factions in the game: Let's stop pretending here and deal with facts. No one had a surefire Scum lynch at that point of the day when VE claimed. So saying "lets lynch Mafia" is being dishonest about the situation at best. I even outlined this in the thread: If you believe VE is actually a Town Veteran then you lynch him anyway as he will be converted. You don't stop looking for Mafia either: you just vigi them that night. The town will secure the possible night kill invincible 3rd party, and you kill the most Scummy person at night. There - you've solved both problems with the resources you've been given and you don't need to appeal to either of the factions for help you won't even get, not to mention you don't even know WHO to talk to.

But you didn't read this in the thread when I said it did you?

On March 31 2013 10:37 layabout wrote:
oh and lynching cosmic was silly because for all town new a mafia lynch would have reduced KP, they had a big pool of players that in all likelihood were not mafia (cosmic, VE, test, WoS probably TPS), and lynching him would put them at lylo or, if i was town and the 3p dying killed us both would have given mafia the win then and there.

cosmic's case on kitaman was in my opnion the strongest case in the game and if you overlooked it i would like to know why.

That's all nice and dandy except...the Town doesn't know the number of Mafia in the game and it's not even Day 3. Lets deal with reality here.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 01:52 GMT

#3173

Then there's a problem with the game if that is allowed. Players don't get to turn down recruitment. VE "being" Town after being talked to/recruited by 3rd party recruiter should be impossible.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 02:03 GMT

#3177

DP then you'd have to prove that Kita and Ryu are Scum. Based on the state of the game - that seemed to be a mountainous task. Scum played it well and made it difficult to happen. Can't complain about it.

Sure there are situations where you've got to play the odds and try to get help - but once again let's be realistic here. All the Town players are posting in public. Even if you somehow got to the situation where "ok guys, CC is on our side for now, let's lynch our top collective Scum reads and buy time" isn't going to work. The Scum team has perfect information and can easily screw with this. The 3rd party recruiter CC is only going to help you as far as he needs to live another day: he'll recruit the most protown player/confirmed town the next night and screw you. Both factions can see your moves and you have no way of stopping them from doing their actions.

To top it all off yes reducing Scum KP is an admirable goal but the Town has no clue of the KP formula, the possible roles (as 3rd party Recruiter pops out of nowhere), nor does it know the total number of Scum in the game. Your plan isn't a bad idea on the surface but that is a lot of information missing if you want to take a long shot.

Also DoctorH in the future if you're going to mess with converting roles, don't allow them to recruit Mafia. There are ways around it but this is one of the reasons we try not to deal with recruiters.

On March 31 2013 10:56 layabout wrote:
The mechanic worked around being masoned for a certain length of time* and whoever was masoned could end it whenever they choose.

+ Show Spoiler [*] +

Does anybody else think it's funny that Dr.h uses cylce to mean a day or night and everyone else uses it too mean day and night cycle?

So what was the difference between you and VE? Just you got recruited by being masoned longer and VE gets to "dodge" recruitment?

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 02:09 GMT

#3180

Well then you've got to give the Scum team credit for claiming Scum and avoiding the lynch wagon. Then scream at the Townies who let it happen

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 02:37 GMT

#3186

oh god that's all kinds of bad :/

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 03:55 GMT

#3207

depends on what they post

3 posts from Fishball are worth about 20 posts from Bill Murray

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 04:04 GMT

#3211

This might be relevant discussion on policy lynches:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25832&start=25

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 06:20 GMT

#3245

eh? I did no such thing and if it came across that way, oops. I dont know how many times I need to repeat myself but your lynch was based on the Vet claim + you being Scum lying/being Town recruited and the fact you WERE apathetic towards Town. If you want to refute any of these you're more than welcome.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 06:41 GMT

#3249

And I've already said your plan made no sense: trying to "trick" someone and then posting you're tricking them IN PUBLIC plays on the assumption that player does not know how to read. What response from CC were you looking for? Sounds more to me that you were stumbling and had no clue what you were doing.

And no, it doesn't change the fact that you weren't third party but it does NOT excuse the way you played. The Vet claim was bad, the Mason thing was foolish, and you yourself even hopped on my wagon when I had no case on me until Wiggles showed up. If you were trying to get something out of CC then I don't see how I had anything to do with it. You're lying

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 06:45 GMT

#3251

I just like pointing out when people's logic don't match their actions. Sue me.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 07:01 GMT

#3254

Recruiter gets notified their conversion failed not knowing why (Priest type roles that block conversion or trying to convert Mafia)

or

Recuiter dies the night they try to convert Mafia. If this happens they either get a new recruiter picked from the existing ones in the faction (broken for obvious reasons) or the better but more controversial way: everyone in the faction dies when the leader dies.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 07:16 GMT

#3256

lol @ zerg scum.

we'll have to wait on Dr.H to chime in on what he wanted to accomplish. I don't think it was that bad as the game was still fun, and I don't think it outright ruined the game (and layabout seemed to like it, dont know if CC was really that upset either). Just something for the future when dealing with recruitment/cult roles and the potential pitfalls.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 07:24 GMT

#3258

hmm? If you mean 48hour day/24 hour night cycles I think that was the standard for a long time.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 08:25 GMT

#3269

that should probably be the default night mechanic for the forum

Ace

United States16096 Posts

March 31 2013 19:17 GMT

#3285

I knew I saw Night Action Resolution Period before! Shoulda guessed it was iGrok.

@sciberbia: What you described is just one of the few issues with Cults that make it hard to design around. Closed Setups + Cults is asking for even more drama when people get Win Conditions switched, and Town is actually playing correctly (lynching Anti-Town players) but ends up losing anyway when the hidden faction outnumbers them. Lots of rage incoming unless you just so happen to have players that don't mind that level of surprise.

Dr.H still mia but when he comes back maybe he'll chime in on it.