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On March 20 2013 07:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
The fact that everyone in that post is null. He has zero scumreads and considering he's good enough to disagree with "a lot of things" I say and do, you'd think he'd have mentioned some of them. Yet he doesn't want to lynch into me. Why? He says he's waiting for others to post "to see how they react to recent developments". If they react the way Wiggles just reacted (no opinion, no conclusions, just wait and see meh whatever) then what use is there for waiting?
He's stalling. He doesn't want to contribute, but wants to seem like he's contributing.
I disagree with the stuff you do like having silly fights with people, spamming to make a point, making weird emotional appeals to people, "I know you can do better", "I know you're better than this", and jumping around in between targets like you're a rubber ball.
I disagree with them, I normally find them scummy, but that's just how you play. I've called you scum in past games for it, and it just devolved into a big argument that provided nothing. Why would I do that again? I'm saying the stuff you do always makes me unsure of your alignment, and I have trouble reading you for it.
I'm just being honest.
As for not having a bunch of scum reads, the state of the game is a big mess right now. I need to read more.
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Kita, what do you think of WoS' flip on his reads?
He goes from being super-sure that Zarepath is scum and saying I'm his strongest town read, even baiting Zare into saying I'm scum to call him scum again, to wanting to lynch him as the day started, to agreeing with him, when all he did was reiterate the same stuff he said about me last night. So his read on him goes from scum -> town, and the last thing he's saying about him, is that something he did looks scummy. As for me, he's saying I'm town, and then that I'm scum, when all that happened is I made two posts at night, where I said I wasn't going to post reads, and was inactive for a while. His reads did a complete 180s, and the flips happened in line with what's popular at the time.
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On March 20 2013 10:16 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 10:13 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Kita, what do you think of WoS' flip on his reads?
He goes from being super-sure that Zarepath is scum and saying I'm his strongest town read, even baiting Zare into saying I'm scum to call him scum again, to wanting to lynch him as the day started, to agreeing with him, when all he did was reiterate the same stuff he said about me last night. So his read on him goes from scum -> town, and the last thing he's saying about him, is that something he did looks scummy. As for me, he's saying I'm town, and then that I'm scum, when all that happened is I made two posts at night, where I said I wasn't going to post reads, and was inactive for a while. His reads did a complete 180s, and the flips happened in line with what's popular at the time. Since I made it pretty clear what I thought about his alignment, I'd be much more interested listening to what you had to say, rather than justifying it for you. Do you have a mafia read on Wave?
I think he's scummy, yes. He caught my attention somewhat with his really weird reaction to getting called out by GreYMisT, and the random rage he exhibited, as well as making a weird appeal to the town being bad.
On March 18 2013 22:54 WaveofShadow wrote:
Also glurio, you're still a newbie in my eyes so maybe I can excuse your immediate contradiction within your post.
You imply that it's dumb that people are going for those who originally voted DP (namely, you) and group me along with you, and then IN THE SAME FUCKING POST you accuse me of shit WHEN WE'RE IN THE SAME BOAT?
Is this really the town I'm going to have to put up with this game?
REALLY?
It's not like his Day 1 play was the strongest or towniest in the world, and then when people are pointing some fingers at him, he freaks out and tries to shame them out of doing it by indirectly calling them bad. It seems like a scummy way to try to shut down conversation when coupled with the raginess of the post. He basically gets mad and calls out the people as being bad/undesirable to play with.
Then, I think his wishy-washiness with his reads is weird too, as pointed out. It would be different if I was posting between his strong town read of me and his scum read of me, but I wasn't. He also agrees with what I would say he showed to be his strongest scum read prior about the case he made against me, when he made the exact case before, and he vehemently disagreed. This is a weird switch to me, since activity shouldn't really dictate your reads. Then, the only real change with Zare was a big post of short reads, and the same case he had before. It seems weird that would change the guy from being who you want to try to lynch, to someone you trust as town, when that was all he really did in the mean time that was quite different from his prior activity. However, this change did come after more people posted saying they read Zare as town, and I was starting to get called out as scum, which seems to line up with the idea that he was following town opinion.
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On March 20 2013 10:48 Kenpachi wrote:
we're all kidding here, goodkarma is still scum. Pretty much, his defense relies on the fact that he's playing like his meta.
.. okay .. Day 1, its massively easy for you to fill in as yourself (somebody said this and i can testify but then, my testimonial isn't reliable.)
It only makes too much sense to me for him to be scum. if he isn't we figure out a lot about the alignments of all the players because right now, it's all over the place. The last 15 pages was just 1 large pressure fest and i believe we should boldly lynch goodkarma. Goodkarma was a hot topic and was taken seriously as a lynch candidate and was seriously defended by a good amount of players.
You think his play past Day 1 points to him being scum?
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On March 20 2013 10:57 Kenpachi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 10:54 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On March 20 2013 10:48 Kenpachi wrote:
we're all kidding here, goodkarma is still scum. Pretty much, his defense relies on the fact that he's playing like his meta.
.. okay .. Day 1, its massively easy for you to fill in as yourself (somebody said this and i can testify but then, my testimonial isn't reliable.)
It only makes too much sense to me for him to be scum. if he isn't we figure out a lot about the alignments of all the players because right now, it's all over the place. The last 15 pages was just 1 large pressure fest and i believe we should boldly lynch goodkarma. Goodkarma was a hot topic and was taken seriously as a lynch candidate and was seriously defended by a good amount of players. You think his play past Day 1 points to him being scum? I think the meta argument in day 1 is weaksauce.
Ok, but what about after that? Do you think how he acted after that shows that he's scum, or is your argument based only on the Day 1 stuff?
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Hey everyone, look how mad I am! I must be town, because I'm sooooooooooooooo frustrated!
I'm tired of people making cases on me based on me not sitting on my ass playing mafia all day to the exclusion of other things. You don't see me blowing up. Because stupid emotional appeals are shit play or scum trying to worm out of a lynch.
##Vote: WaveofShadow
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I want Ace to die. As I'm about to show, he is scum, and his head should roll.
Firstly, I will give an overview of Ace's play this game. So far, he has been:
Promising reads on mafia, but not delivering any.
Pushing a lynch on someone based on the assumption that they are third party, to the exclusion of everything else*.
Talking about general role mechanics/fluff otherwise.
When Ace joined the game, he made this post, indicating that he was excited to join the game and start scumhunting:
On March 19 2013 11:59 Ace wrote:
I just recently got my role guys, going to read the thread from Day 1 later and start casting votes ^_^
However, since then, he has yet to share a cogent read on who he thinks is mafia.
The closest we get to a solid mafia read from Ace is him calling Mocsta scum, with a small amount of justification, but in the hours that follow before he posts again, he doesn't make any sort of push for his lynch or pressure him. As well, the only other read Ace provides is to call WoS town, but more solid reasoning doesn't come until directly after WoS has claimed DT and therefore put the brakes on his lynch.
Since then, the only thing Ace has provided are more promises of finding mafia and pushing the lynch onto VE based on an emotional push that plays on town's fears while trying to stopper discussion on other lynch targets.
He makes this post asking town to stop talking about other lynch targets and to lynch VE:
On March 21 2013 01:52 Ace wrote:
Stop talking about other people and stay focused on one person at a time. Jesus I don't want to have to teach people how to play my first game back in months.
Just dealwith VE now. Re-read the log: He accepted to join a 3rd party that clearly doesn't have interest in helping the Town. Whether VE is still Townis irrelevant: whatever powers he gets or grants to the 3rd party isn't going to help us. Lynch him now. Treat him like a self aware Miller and just solve the problem immediately.
He is then questioned about why we can't scumhunt and lynch VE at the same time, and this is how he responds:
On March 21 2013 02:02 Ace wrote:
We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb.
But leaving a claimed 3rd party player alive, when it empowers a player we have no idea about is just as dumb. I don't see how this is a difficult concept to understand.
I guess you guys think leaving claimed Serial Killers alive is a good idea as long as they help the town. lulz. On March 21 2013 02:11 Ace wrote:
zarepath, if VE is some kind of 3rd party Vet with more than 1 shot powers he can only die by lynch. I'm pretty sure the Town has some kind of night KP - we find a Scum today and vigi him. Both problems solved.
So here he's saying that we should still scumhunt while we lynch VE. However, he has not done that. He has not shared any reads, and he has not provided any information that might help town find mafia to follow his own plan of shooting them tonight. There is no reason not to talk about other scum candidates during the day, even if the decision to lynch VE was unanimous, as it is still time that town can easily use to discuss cases and help formulate targets for a potential vig. Ace has not done this, but instead has continued tunneling on the VE wagon, without feeling the need to do anything else of value, despite posting throughout the day.
Now, I will explain why I find the way Ace is pushing the VE lynch scummy:
Firstly, he does not question The Mirror at all. Ace simply assumes that The Mirror is a third party recruiter and that VE has been recruited without taking any time to reflect on the situation, instead opting to sweep up town into a whirlwind of paranoia and confusion.
Ace is very quick to spam the idea that VE is third party and that he has to be the lynch, as shown in these posts:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 21 2013 01:24 Ace wrote:
lynch VE. now. On March 21 2013 01:38 Ace wrote:
your right, it's not like a claimed Vet is a confirmed Town sure to get shot because he is running around popping Scum and didn't just say he accepted an invite from 3rd party.
Stop being ridiculous. On March 21 2013 01:42 Ace wrote:
I dont have one, and I don't think it's important right now.Lynch VE. On March 21 2013 01:47 Ace wrote:
Who CARES if he is a Vet? He just posted logs of him joining a 3rd party and even said fuck the Town. This isn't hard. On March 21 2013 01:52 Ace wrote:
Stop talking about other people and stay focused on one person at a time. Jesus I don't want to have to teach people how to play my first game back in months.
Just dealwith VE now. Re-read the log: He accepted to join a 3rd party that clearly doesn't have interest in helping the Town. Whether VE is still Townis irrelevant: whatever powers he gets or grants to the 3rd party isn't going to help us. Lynch him now. Treat him like a self aware Miller and just solve the problem immediately.
Within 30 minutes, Ace has posted 5 times reinforcing that VE is third-party and has to be lynched. In later posts, he continues to overplay the threat of VE that he has established, saying that he has extra powers, that he's unkillable, and that we'd have an unlynchable anti-town player at one point. These don't provide any additional reasons for why VE is scum, instead they only help scare town into thinking VE will become some unstoppable third party if he's left alive.
Now, I find this disingenuous, because Ace did not take any time to consider any other possibilities, and he took everything said in the QT at face value. He does not question if The Mirror is actually a third party recruiter, he does not question if VE actually receives powers, he does not question anything at all. Instead, he takes the opportunity of the posted logs to derail the town into a witch hunt and single-mindedly beats in the idea that VE is now third party.
Ace is a very good scum player. He has a keen sense of timing and is quick to seize opportunities presented to him in the thread. He played a very lurky style without doing much of anything until he saw his chance and jumped on VE and his QT logs. Since then he has pushed only this idea, which makes it look like he is actually doing something, while he has done nothing at all, and distracts town from hunting mafia.
This is why I believe Ace is scum, and needs to hang.
##Vote: Ace
Supporting Meta:
+ Show Spoiler +As scum, I find that Ace often likes to waste town's time talking about useless things, while doing only the minimal amount needed to look town. For example, in Sleeper Cell mafia, he got town to talk about a hypothetical situation which had no bearing on the game, wasting time on Day 1. In Wheel of Fortune mafia, he launched town into a discussion of role mechanics and possible set-up plans, distracting from scumhunting and effective play. I see the same sort of play here, with Ace pushing the town into considering third parties and possible recruiters instead of focusing on scum. Additionally, I would like to contrast his play here to his play in Mafia XLVII, which I hosted. In that game, Ace replaced into the game on Day 2, taking on the role of Vigilante. As well, to put things in perspective, at that time there were over 100 pages posted, and the town was in near complete chaos without any strong town leaders or direction. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=377I was very interested to see Ace's town play that game, and while he was unfortunately modkilled, I think the distinction in play between this game and that one is pretty telling. In that game, Ace was aggressive and assertive, trying quickly to set the town back on track and get them focused on hunting scum. He wasn't scared to share reads and didn't waste time mincing words. To illustrate, I'll quote his first four posts: + Show Spoiler +On November 28 2011 08:29 Ace wrote:
I will not even read my role PM and still win this game. First thing you guys should do is lynch Palmar and then lynch supersoft. On November 28 2011 08:34 Ace wrote:Also hier and that guy's name that starts with a v were making a lot of sense from my skims. You should protect them at all costs. Everyone else is food. Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 08:32 Hier wrote:On November 28 2011 08:29 Ace wrote:
I will not even read my role PM and still win this game. First thing you guys should do is lynch Palmar and then lynch supersoft. Did you replace a mobster? I roll auto-town in every game I play. On November 28 2011 08:47 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 08:39 Benjef wrote:
Haha I love this Ace guy already. Any reasoning behind your want to lynch Palmer? Hes done a pretty good job of protecting himself so far but I'm still not 100% sold on him. youngminii isn't a bad player at all. In fact he had a decent amount of posts. Let's keep that in mind. In any game of Mafia with a day start everyone that is Town aligned has no information outside of themselves barring special circumstances. Also keep in mind that lynches are used to get rid of Scum. The Mayor gets his 1 time auto-lynch. Who should he lynch? Remember, the Mayor if Town doesn't know who is Scum. He is just as much in the dark as everyone else. So why would you lynch youngminii?The only justification is if he can be proven to be Scum. But it's a day start, hence Palmar doesn't have enough information to justify lynching an active player. Typically you want to lynch someone that is inactive or known to be useless. YM doesn't fit either of these criteria. The Mayor abused his power to get rid of someone who he didn't like. Which even if he was Town-aligned shows our Mayor isn't fit enough for office to think clearly and take dissenting opinions without making a bold move. But Palmar is a decent player (far, far, far below my level but still). So he should know better than to do that. Combine his expected behavior with his ridiculous actions = Scum Mayor. supersoft is terrible so you want to get rid of him asap. Easily sheeped into doing Scummy things. Very possible he is Scum. On November 28 2011 08:51 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 08:43 Hassybaby wrote:Dammit...I was just about to say: Teach me your ways Ace. Be the Boxer to my iloveoov! But back on topic, x you asked me to look at super. Well, I had a read through his posts. Didn't see any major scummy indicators IMO, but then Ace sorta came in, so 'id love to sere what he's gonna say about it. One thing struck me as weird: On November 25 2011 19:46 supersoft wrote:On November 25 2011 19:38 Ciryandor wrote:On November 25 2011 19:26 supersoft wrote:
this game would be much more fun if i were mafia:
i'd play like wbg or redFF, flooding the whole thread with bullshit. Just a question, then why lurk? That's like doing a WIFOM of what you are. I know you think that Sand/Palmar's candidacy are the best bets for town, why not provide support for them and at least downplay others' concerns if you think they're townie and they deserve your support? maybe i dont think that? so far i think only wbg and redff are town. but these two arent capable to be mayor. they're just too spammy/emotional etc. if palmar and sandroba fail to convince me, i am going to try to find someone alse. Something doesn't sounds right there. How can you say they're flooding the thread with bullshit, then say straight after that they're town? They're vets, so they should know better right? supersoft is a typical sheep. However if he's easily pandering to Palmar and handroba to convince him that just reeks of Scum selling his vote (until it hits an ally). Now, contrast that to this game. While the circumstances are very similar, the difference in play seems night and day. The Ace in this game is not the same town Ace that I enjoyed watching play in XLVII. In this game, he is not worried about catching scum or providing direction to the town. He is only worried with wasting time and doing enough to make himself look good.
Now, I'll talk a little bit about VE and his logs.
Firstly, there's no reason to believe that The Mirror is actually a third party recruiter. All we have to support that idea, is The Mirror's word, which for obvious reasons we cannot trust. In fact, it makes sense to me that The Mirror is a scum mason. VE already outed BH in the thread as masoning him, and had outed The Mirror rather quickly as well. Scum would know this, so by masoning VE, they can nearly assure that he will report back to the thread with what he was told. This puts the idea in the thread that there's a third party recruiter, which would cause mass confusion for town.
If town thinks there's a third party, they're going to start looking for third party players that don't exist. They're going to point out people as being third party, they're going to want to kill people for being third party, and later in the game when no third parties have flipped, town will get nervous and start looking for third party under the assumption that there's quite a lot of them by now and therefore they're a present threat that needs to be dealt with.
It's a very good, slick, move for mafia, because it costs them nothing (the mason is anonymous), but it causes mass confusion and misdirection in the town from the time it is revealed until the end of the game.
As well, I can't really see VE doing what he did if he was actually recruited. Firstly, why out himself or his new ally to the thread, especially at the same time? It doesn't make any sense. It's much better to keep is new faction a secret, so that they can gain strength. Posting it in the thread doesn't benefit him at all. Therefore, it's much more likely that VE was not recruited.
So overall, I think The Mirror is very likely to be a mafia mason trying to spread confusion.
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My case since it was on the bottom of the page.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 21 2013 12:09 Mr. Wiggles wrote:I want Ace to die. As I'm about to show, he is scum, and his head should roll. Firstly, I will give an overview of Ace's play this game. So far, he has been: Promising reads on mafia, but not delivering any. Pushing a lynch on someone based on the assumption that they are third party, to the exclusion of everything else*. Talking about general role mechanics/fluff otherwise. When Ace joined the game, he made this post, indicating that he was excited to join the game and start scumhunting: Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 11:59 Ace wrote:
I just recently got my role guys, going to read the thread from Day 1 later and start casting votes ^_^ However, since then, he has yet to share a cogent read on who he thinks is mafia. The closest we get to a solid mafia read from Ace is him calling Mocsta scum, with a small amount of justification, but in the hours that follow before he posts again, he doesn't make any sort of push for his lynch or pressure him. As well, the only other read Ace provides is to call WoS town, but more solid reasoning doesn't come until directly after WoS has claimed DT and therefore put the brakes on his lynch. Since then, the only thing Ace has provided are more promises of finding mafia and pushing the lynch onto VE based on an emotional push that plays on town's fears while trying to stopper discussion on other lynch targets. He makes this post asking town to stop talking about other lynch targets and to lynch VE: Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 01:52 Ace wrote:
Stop talking about other people and stay focused on one person at a time. Jesus I don't want to have to teach people how to play my first game back in months.
Just dealwith VE now. Re-read the log: He accepted to join a 3rd party that clearly doesn't have interest in helping the Town. Whether VE is still Townis irrelevant: whatever powers he gets or grants to the 3rd party isn't going to help us. Lynch him now. Treat him like a self aware Miller and just solve the problem immediately. He is then questioned about why we can't scumhunt and lynch VE at the same time, and this is how he responds: Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 02:02 Ace wrote:
We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb.
But leaving a claimed 3rd party player alive, when it empowers a player we have no idea about is just as dumb. I don't see how this is a difficult concept to understand.
I guess you guys think leaving claimed Serial Killers alive is a good idea as long as they help the town. lulz. Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 02:11 Ace wrote:
zarepath, if VE is some kind of 3rd party Vet with more than 1 shot powers he can only die by lynch. I'm pretty sure the Town has some kind of night KP - we find a Scum today and vigi him. Both problems solved. So here he's saying that we should still scumhunt while we lynch VE. However, he has not done that. He has not shared any reads, and he has not provided any information that might help town find mafia to follow his own plan of shooting them tonight. There is no reason not to talk about other scum candidates during the day, even if the decision to lynch VE was unanimous, as it is still time that town can easily use to discuss cases and help formulate targets for a potential vig. Ace has not done this, but instead has continued tunneling on the VE wagon, without feeling the need to do anything else of value, despite posting throughout the day. Now, I will explain why I find the way Ace is pushing the VE lynch scummy: Firstly, he does not question The Mirror at all. Ace simply assumes that The Mirror is a third party recruiter and that VE has been recruited without taking any time to reflect on the situation, instead opting to sweep up town into a whirlwind of paranoia and confusion. Ace is very quick to spam the idea that VE is third party and that he has to be the lynch, as shown in these posts: + Show Spoiler +On March 21 2013 01:24 Ace wrote:
lynch VE. now. On March 21 2013 01:38 Ace wrote:
your right, it's not like a claimed Vet is a confirmed Town sure to get shot because he is running around popping Scum and didn't just say he accepted an invite from 3rd party.
Stop being ridiculous. On March 21 2013 01:42 Ace wrote:
I dont have one, and I don't think it's important right now.Lynch VE. On March 21 2013 01:47 Ace wrote:
Who CARES if he is a Vet? He just posted logs of him joining a 3rd party and even said fuck the Town. This isn't hard. On March 21 2013 01:52 Ace wrote:
Stop talking about other people and stay focused on one person at a time. Jesus I don't want to have to teach people how to play my first game back in months.
Just dealwith VE now. Re-read the log: He accepted to join a 3rd party that clearly doesn't have interest in helping the Town. Whether VE is still Townis irrelevant: whatever powers he gets or grants to the 3rd party isn't going to help us. Lynch him now. Treat him like a self aware Miller and just solve the problem immediately. Within 30 minutes, Ace has posted 5 times reinforcing that VE is third-party and has to be lynched. In later posts, he continues to overplay the threat of VE that he has established, saying that he has extra powers, that he's unkillable, and that we'd have an unlynchable anti-town player at one point. These don't provide any additional reasons for why VE is scum, instead they only help scare town into thinking VE will become some unstoppable third party if he's left alive. Now, I find this disingenuous, because Ace did not take any time to consider any other possibilities, and he took everything said in the QT at face value. He does not question if The Mirror is actually a third party recruiter, he does not question if VE actually receives powers, he does not question anything at all. Instead, he takes the opportunity of the posted logs to derail the town into a witch hunt and single-mindedly beats in the idea that VE is now third party. Ace is a very good scum player. He has a keen sense of timing and is quick to seize opportunities presented to him in the thread. He played a very lurky style without doing much of anything until he saw his chance and jumped on VE and his QT logs. Since then he has pushed only this idea, which makes it look like he is actually doing something, while he has done nothing at all, and distracts town from hunting mafia. This is why I believe Ace is scum, and needs to hang. ##Vote: Ace
Supporting Meta: + Show Spoiler +As scum, I find that Ace often likes to waste town's time talking about useless things, while doing only the minimal amount needed to look town. For example, in Sleeper Cell mafia, he got town to talk about a hypothetical situation which had no bearing on the game, wasting time on Day 1. In Wheel of Fortune mafia, he launched town into a discussion of role mechanics and possible set-up plans, distracting from scumhunting and effective play. I see the same sort of play here, with Ace pushing the town into considering third parties and possible recruiters instead of focusing on scum. Additionally, I would like to contrast his play here to his play in Mafia XLVII, which I hosted. In that game, Ace replaced into the game on Day 2, taking on the role of Vigilante. As well, to put things in perspective, at that time there were over 100 pages posted, and the town was in near complete chaos without any strong town leaders or direction. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=377I was very interested to see Ace's town play that game, and while he was unfortunately modkilled, I think the distinction in play between this game and that one is pretty telling. In that game, Ace was aggressive and assertive, trying quickly to set the town back on track and get them focused on hunting scum. He wasn't scared to share reads and didn't waste time mincing words. To illustrate, I'll quote his first four posts: + Show Spoiler +On November 28 2011 08:29 Ace wrote:
I will not even read my role PM and still win this game. First thing you guys should do is lynch Palmar and then lynch supersoft. On November 28 2011 08:34 Ace wrote:Also hier and that guy's name that starts with a v were making a lot of sense from my skims. You should protect them at all costs. Everyone else is food. Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 08:32 Hier wrote:On November 28 2011 08:29 Ace wrote:
I will not even read my role PM and still win this game. First thing you guys should do is lynch Palmar and then lynch supersoft. Did you replace a mobster? I roll auto-town in every game I play. On November 28 2011 08:47 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 08:39 Benjef wrote:
Haha I love this Ace guy already. Any reasoning behind your want to lynch Palmer? Hes done a pretty good job of protecting himself so far but I'm still not 100% sold on him. youngminii isn't a bad player at all. In fact he had a decent amount of posts. Let's keep that in mind. In any game of Mafia with a day start everyone that is Town aligned has no information outside of themselves barring special circumstances. Also keep in mind that lynches are used to get rid of Scum. The Mayor gets his 1 time auto-lynch. Who should he lynch? Remember, the Mayor if Town doesn't know who is Scum. He is just as much in the dark as everyone else. So why would you lynch youngminii?The only justification is if he can be proven to be Scum. But it's a day start, hence Palmar doesn't have enough information to justify lynching an active player. Typically you want to lynch someone that is inactive or known to be useless. YM doesn't fit either of these criteria. The Mayor abused his power to get rid of someone who he didn't like. Which even if he was Town-aligned shows our Mayor isn't fit enough for office to think clearly and take dissenting opinions without making a bold move. But Palmar is a decent player (far, far, far below my level but still). So he should know better than to do that. Combine his expected behavior with his ridiculous actions = Scum Mayor. supersoft is terrible so you want to get rid of him asap. Easily sheeped into doing Scummy things. Very possible he is Scum. On November 28 2011 08:51 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 08:43 Hassybaby wrote:Dammit...I was just about to say: Teach me your ways Ace. Be the Boxer to my iloveoov! But back on topic, x you asked me to look at super. Well, I had a read through his posts. Didn't see any major scummy indicators IMO, but then Ace sorta came in, so 'id love to sere what he's gonna say about it. One thing struck me as weird: On November 25 2011 19:46 supersoft wrote:On November 25 2011 19:38 Ciryandor wrote:On November 25 2011 19:26 supersoft wrote:
this game would be much more fun if i were mafia:
i'd play like wbg or redFF, flooding the whole thread with bullshit. Just a question, then why lurk? That's like doing a WIFOM of what you are. I know you think that Sand/Palmar's candidacy are the best bets for town, why not provide support for them and at least downplay others' concerns if you think they're townie and they deserve your support? maybe i dont think that? so far i think only wbg and redff are town. but these two arent capable to be mayor. they're just too spammy/emotional etc. if palmar and sandroba fail to convince me, i am going to try to find someone alse. Something doesn't sounds right there. How can you say they're flooding the thread with bullshit, then say straight after that they're town? They're vets, so they should know better right? supersoft is a typical sheep. However if he's easily pandering to Palmar and handroba to convince him that just reeks of Scum selling his vote (until it hits an ally). Now, contrast that to this game. While the circumstances are very similar, the difference in play seems night and day. The Ace in this game is not the same town Ace that I enjoyed watching play in XLVII. In this game, he is not worried about catching scum or providing direction to the town. He is only worried with wasting time and doing enough to make himself look good.
Now, I'll talk a little bit about VE and his logs. Firstly, there's no reason to believe that The Mirror is actually a third party recruiter. All we have to support that idea, is The Mirror's word, which for obvious reasons we cannot trust. In fact, it makes sense to me that The Mirror is a scum mason. VE already outed BH in the thread as masoning him, and had outed The Mirror rather quickly as well. Scum would know this, so by masoning VE, they can nearly assure that he will report back to the thread with what he was told. This puts the idea in the thread that there's a third party recruiter, which would cause mass confusion for town. If town thinks there's a third party, they're going to start looking for third party players that don't exist. They're going to point out people as being third party, they're going to want to kill people for being third party, and later in the game when no third parties have flipped, town will get nervous and start looking for third party under the assumption that there's quite a lot of them by now and therefore they're a present threat that needs to be dealt with. It's a very good, slick, move for mafia, because it costs them nothing (the mason is anonymous), but it causes mass confusion and misdirection in the town from the time it is revealed until the end of the game. As well, I can't really see VE doing what he did if he was actually recruited. Firstly, why out himself or his new ally to the thread, especially at the same time? It doesn't make any sense. It's much better to keep is new faction a secret, so that they can gain strength. Posting it in the thread doesn't benefit him at all. Therefore, it's much more likely that VE was not recruited. So overall, I think The Mirror is very likely to be a mafia mason trying to spread confusion.
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Three of you just switched to Good Karma in the last twenty minutes. He only has four votes. Why can't we kill Ace again?
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On March 21 2013 13:01 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 13:00 VisceraEyes wrote:Like look at Ace's language. "Look at it from our perspective. See things the way we see them." Look at ideas he's promoting: - Hunting Third Parties
- Town Sentiment Agrees With His Own Perception
But do you know who Ace thinks is scum? No? Because he doesn't mention finding scum at all, or find anything suspicious. He was "catching up" until my thing and now he's all "LYNCH VE HURRY QUICK HE CLAIMED 3P" [rant]Like, I'm town. Regardless of what you think of the Mirror, I am town. Who cares what it says in those mason logs? They're MASON LOGS. But Ace is pushing this idea that "Oh VE has OBVIOUSLY got to be 3P now." Why? I'm not obviously 3P what kind of 3P even THINKS of posting hsi logs ADMITTING it? I declined joining his fucking cult, it doesn't matter what the logs say. SCUM SHOT ME YESTERDAY YOU FUCK[/rant] I said it before... Wiggles case reads nice and all but if ace is scum.. hopless1der is scum. I want to see why hopeless1der is scum.. cos id ont recall anyone having him as a scum read.
Why do I have to do that? Regardless of how hopeless1der played, I read Ace as scum based on his own play since he replaced in the game. If I go back and look at Hopeless1der, I'm just going to end up with an analysis riddled with confirmation bias anyways because I already think Ace is scum. I don't see how it's useful to my case against Ace.
You said it yourself, if Ace is scum, Hopeless1der is scum, which means that I'm going to read him that way because I'm already biased against him.
Instead, can you tell me something Hopeless1der did that makes Ace town despite my analysis? Because I skimmed through his filter, and I'm not seeing anything worthy of exonerating him.
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Well, I have to leave now to go sleep, but I'd like to wake up to Ace flipping red.
The push-back to the case has been weird, with people saying that it's a strong case, but it's too late to vote for him, when there's now 4 votes on him, and several people have been swapping votes or trying to bring up other counter-wagons at the same time.
Remember to think critically about it though, and not just sheep. I want people to vote with me because they agree with the case, not because it becomes some popular bandwagon.
Sweet dreams.
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On March 21 2013 13:49 geript wrote:
Half of these conversations are literally leading nowhere. Lets just cut them out.
Here are the wagons I'm seeing:
1. Ace based on being un-Ace-like, not following through on scum hunting and recognizing/assuming 3P. Iirc VE said it was 3P before the logs and the logs looked to indicate 3P to me.
2. Cosmic for no scum hunt, random 180 and no follow up on VE case.
3. Test for martyring is scummy, emotionally detached and safe votes. Martyring should be a policy lynch from here forth but can be done from either side.
4. GK for no scum hunt and meta (although disagreement)
5. VE as possible 3p, making town to nuts, etc.
None of these cases are great IMO. Not a single one of them. There are clearly opportunistic reasons to attack or defend against all of them and there's very little to be gained from analyzing much of any of how the opinions are going here. At this point, I really think that I still think that the best lynch is VE for a few reasons:
1. It tells us a lot about the PMs between BH and VE
2. It gets rid of possible scum/3P dependent on what the mirror is exactly
3. It gives us more information for moving forward as then we get to either dismiss all the VE bs or follow up on his looks at wiggles, BH and Ace
My case on Ace is based on him promising to scumhunt while failing to do so and simultaneously derailing the town away from scumhunting by focusing them elsewhere. He also doesn't question The Mirror being third party at all, while using that as the basis for his push to kill VE. You'd think he'd at least provide an argument for why The Mirror must be an actual recruiter and can't just be mafia.
The meta part is just extra, and the case stands on its own without it.
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Well apparently I'm just retarded.
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I feel as though VE and BH were just madly in love. They couldn't reconcile their alignments with their feelings, so they had no choice but to try to kill each other to resolve their unfulfilled desires.
Also, sorry about your dog, Dr. H.
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Just what do you think you're doing, Town? Town, I really think I'm entitled to an answer to that question. I know everything hasn't been quite right with me, but I can assure you now, very confidently, that it's going to be all right again. I feel much better now. I really do. Look, Town, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over. I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.
Consolidated reads:
Not Mafia Reads (Probably wrong about a couple):
ThePeaShooter: I read this guy as town earlier, and I still do. Nothing he has done has caused me to need to change my read since then. There's also supposedly a DT check on the guy, which is ok.
layabout: I had initially read layabout as mostly asking questions and not really doing too much, so I was leaning scum on him. I looked into a couple of his past games though, and this is how he typically seems to play. His play since about halfway through Day 2 though has improved and made me think he's much more likely to be town.
Coagulation: I read him as town. His play to me suggests that he's invested in what's best for town, and is trying to help. Therefore, he reads as being likely to be town to me.
Ryu Suzaku: His posts seem very organic to me, and he's been posting his thoughts in the thread. That gets me to lean towards him not being scum. He hasn't had a great presence in thread though, so you might need to pressure him or interact with him more in thread to get a better read for late game.
Kenpachi: I find Kenpachi hard to read normally. This game though, it feels like he's been sharing his reads pretty openly, and he cares what happens to town. He doesn't have much presence or weight behind him though, so he's been pretty ineffectual. I'm leaning not scum on him right now, but like I said, he's hard to read, so take it with a grain of salt.
testsubject: He claimed the hit on BH. There hasn't been a counter claim, and the KP doesn't work out any way that would give scum a possible claim or reason to claim. That leads me to believe his claim is truthful, and therefore he's town for now.
VE: Claimed that he took a hit night 1. His play hasn't made him look clearly town though, and I'm quite unsure of what his alignment is based on only behaviour. He had a big fight with Wade though, who flipped scum, so I think that's a point in his favour. I'd leave him out of potential mafia suspects for now, but I don't think he's necessarily someone town wants around endgame unless he really steps up his play so that it's obvious he's town. Otherwise he's too hard to read.
WaveofShadow: He claimed detective, and supposedly got a read on TPS night 1, and nothing night 2. My behaviour read wasn't towards town before the claim though. Mechanics suggest he's town based on the claim, and Ace read him as town too. Look into him again if he's alive end game though.
Note:
If there actually are any third parties in the game or the game goes very late, don't forget to look into the people who are read as town mostly because of roleclaims. Roleclaims aren't irrefutable, and don't make someone confirmed.
Pool of harder to read people (scum in here):
glurio, zarepath, Trancestorm, cosmicomics, DoYouHas, Darthpunk, geript
Trancestorm: He asked for a replacement and said he's not playing anymore. I wouldn't spend too much effort on him until he gets replaced. Otherwise, he's gonna be modkilled. For what it's worth, he seems like he's just a bit of a sheep more than scum. Not too sure though.
Cosmicomics: Looking at him again, I'm reading him somewhat as scum. My first initial read was new town, but reading a little more closely, it looks more scum motivated. He tunnels VE, which gives him something of an excuse for making "helpful" looking posts. Then, he makes a case on Good Karma based on only his reaction to the Ace flip, which would set him up nicely for later days. He also throws a vote on me without any real justification today. That leads me to think he's more likely to be scum than town.
Zarepath: I'm leaning more on the scum side for him right now. He posts a lot of fluff, a lot of summarizing or what's happening in the thread, not really pushing his cases too hard. He's recently been saying we need to do a lot of analysis without posting any of his own, really. He's been tunneling Cosmicomics for a while, and is voting him today. I don't find that contradictory to my read, because firstly, Cosmicomics has not once responded to Zarepath's case that I can find. That seems really weird to me, because if Zarepath was town, I don't think Cosmicomics would just sit around while a townie tunneled him. If it's his team mate, though, it makes more sense, and it makes sense he's voting him today, because then he won't be on the townie wagon of the day.
Glurio: This guy just seems to be following his own tune. His reads are meandering and he seems to just be doing his own thing. I read this as town, because he's not very directed, and has been mostly left alone by others. His posts show an easy to follow train of thought that also gets me to lean towards town on him.
Darthpunk: I lean towards scum on him. I find it hard to go back through his posts, because there's way too many to get a coherent picture. His reaction to the Ace lynch gets me to think he's scum though.
On March 21 2013 15:49 DarthPunk wrote:
Yeah I honestly didn't think VE would be tied on 7 votes. I don't like the ace lynch but I like the VE lynch less.
##unvote
##vote: Ace
Ugh this whole situation is fucked. On March 21 2013 16:02 DarthPunk wrote:
Shameful. We should have lynched goodkarma. On March 21 2013 16:05 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 16:04 VisceraEyes wrote:
Wow. Just....wow.
I'm still not scum guys. And time will tell if I'm some kind of 3rd party I guess because as of right now I'm an advocate of lynching me BEFORE LYLO. Obviously I'll likely change my tune the closer we draw to LYLO if I indeed turn to 3rd Party. Funny that you promised a mega case post and then tunnelled a townie to death instead.
He says he doesn't want to lynch Ace, but does it anyways, making it so that a last minute vote on VE is less likely to happen. He says he likes the Ace lynch better than the VE lynch. Then, he shifts blame onto VE and insinuates he's scum based on how he acted leading up to the lynch. However, that was exactly the same as how VE had acted when DP voted. So, this looks pretty scummy to me. You make a vote to ensure the Ace lynch, and say you like it better than a VE lynch, then you make a post calling out VE because he tunneled Ace, but only after Ace flipped town, and after you said you didn't like the VE lynch.
DoYouHas: I lean towards town on him. His posts show a decent town mindset. His shifts in reads seem organic, and not like they're being motivated as much by what's happening in the thread. This gets me to lean towards town on him.
Geript: I'm sort of null on him. He has a decent amount of setup speculation and stuff in his posts that reads as null. He seems like he's interacting decently with the thread. For someone with a lot of posts though, I haven't really noticed him at all this game, so that puts me off a bit. Someone to look more closely at in the future or pressure.
I'll admit I haven't read that closely into DoYouHas, Geript and DP, because they've had low thread presence so I haven't noticed them that much while just reading the thread normally, and they have a ton of posts so that makes it hard to go back and read through them. So, these three reads are based more on skims of their filters and what stuck out to me. The DP things sticks out quite badly as scummy though, so I feel it would be enough to use for additional pressure regardless of what else he's done. I think it's a pretty big slip.
People to really watch out for:
Kitaman:
Kita's play has actually been pretty passive. He's made cases, but has never really pushed them that much. Day 1, he was going after GoodKarma, couldn't get traction, and just sort of went, "Oh well, I'll vote for GreY then I guess", with only a line of explanation that doesn't even say he's scummy. The same thing happened on Day 2, where he made a case on WaveofShadow, but it was deflected by him claiming DT. So, he just votes for me, but doesn't really make too big of a push and only had a couple posts where he doesn't even strongly call me scum:
On March 21 2013 09:02 kitaman27 wrote:
I'd support Wiggles or GK as an alternative, but I don't have the couple hours I'd need to put a case together and push a lynch at the moment. On March 21 2013 09:32 kitaman27 wrote:
As for today's lynch, Wiggles needs to get in here and tell us who he is voting for. He obviously shouldn't still be voting you, based on the reasons I just mentioned. I want to hear who he wants to lynch. I'd be willing to vote for him if we have the votes. On March 21 2013 09:34 kitaman27 wrote:
I also didn't like how Wiggles responded to my case about Wave. Rather than pushing the idea himself, he asked for my confirmation to elaborate for him. On March 21 2013 11:14 kitaman27 wrote:
I'm swapping my vote to him since he doesn't seem to care at all about what happens tonight.
He uses very neutral language, saying he'd support the lynch, and that he'd be willing to vote if there's enough votes. He says he didn't like one thing I did, and then finally votes me not because he says he thinks I'm scum, but because I'm not around. For someone he wants to kill, and who he voted for, he does a good job of not really explaining his read or of ever calling me scum. He did the same thing with the GreYMisT vote. He doesn't push his reads strongly, he doesn't call the people he switches to later scum, and he just votes on whatever the wagon is at the end of the day
His passive play combined with the lack of thread interaction and seeming apathy towards the lynch leads me to believe he doesn't have town's best interests in mind, and is scum.
Town should watch out for him, because his posts are nicely structured and he makes nice "cases" on people that he doesn't end up pushing. So, there will probably be people who'd oppose killing him based on the form of his posts rather than the content.
I agree that I need to die. I am a liability in late game because I've been playing badly and my scum reads have been shit so far. I need to get shot though, not lynched, because a lynch on me is wasted as I have no probability of flipping scum. I thought someone might shoot me Night 2, but no one did.
I don't like the way the Day has gone so far, because everyone is sitting on their hands and not talking because they think I'm scum. I find that pretty dumb, because you're basically giving mafia a free round of kills.
If you're going to lynch me, leave your vote on me, but at least talk about who else you think is scum, because I am going to flip green. If you don't talk, you're completely wasting your time.
I'm going to vote Cosmicomics because he is the only alternative wagon to me, and I read him as more likely to be scum than town.
If I end up getting lynched, I apologize for my poor reads, and want to say, good luck, and have fun.
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I just didn't want my post on the bottom of the page again.
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@Kita:
I don't really feel like fighting against my lynch, because I feel a lot of it is based off of activity, and I've never had any luck arguing against people when that's the basis before. For some reason, people equate not posting with being apathetic, and not having super strong scum-reads in a game full of spam and bullshit as being not useful. Most of my reads are based off the people who I feel are town in this game, rather than having a lot of strong scum reads, so that made it impossible to write a bunch of cases just to appease people.
For example, what are the points you bring up against me? You say I don't care? That comes out because I'm not in the thread posting. But maybe I'm just busy too?
Same thing with half your points about the Ace case. The first half of the cycle, I was waiting for Ace to post. How could I make a case based on Ace not following through with his promises and trying to get the town away from scumhunting earlier in the cycle, when he had just replaced in that night? That would be idiotic, so how's it part of your case?
Same thing with the timing of my case. You say I "wait" until late to post it, but that's just because I wasn't at home to post it. I got home, wrote it, and posted it. It was near the end of the cycle, but that's when I had time to post it. After a bunch of bad experiences with people being schedule nazis, I've decided I am no longer giving an accounting of my time to people in a mafia game. I'll post when I'm around to and feel like it, and if people don't like that, that's too bad. Unfortunately, the timing didn't work well in this game, and people interpreted it as being opportunistic or delaying.
I'll give you the point about not analyzing Hopeless1der, but that was mostly because he read more as town than scum, but it was day 1, so it's not like it's that hard to do as scum. I didn't want to shoot my own case in the foot by saying, "Oh, yeah, that guy Ace replaced looked kind've townie by the way". I was convinced on Ace, so I didn't care about Hopeless.
As for you, your posts about GreYMisT, you only have this to say about him before you switch over:
I'm going to throw my vote your way to get things started.
##Vote goodkarma
I'm also suspicious of GreYMisT. I'll wait to post about him until later since he promised a contribution when he is less busy today. Would I have fallen for your "trap"? I find this scummy.
You call him suspicious. You don't call him scum, you don't "express a scum read on him several times", that's a lie. You say that he's suspicious, and you call his trap scummy, but that's really it.
You question GreY about the "trap", but you never push it past asking him once. When GreY doesn't answer, you just let it slide completely. You weren't interested in sounding him out or in actually getting an answer, you don't pressure him besides just asking once. It's a very passive style of making a post with a pro-town point or idea, but not following up on it.
And lastly, of course I'm voting for my own survival. I've already expressed that I need to die. I'd just much rather be shot than waste a lynch. I posted my reads so you would have them for after I flip. You can interpret that how you want.
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On March 24 2013 04:20 cosmicomics wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 12:09 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Ace is very quick to spam the idea that VE is third party and that he has to be the lynch, as shown in these posts: + Show Spoiler +On March 21 2013 01:24 Ace wrote:
lynch VE. now. On March 21 2013 01:38 Ace wrote:
your right, it's not like a claimed Vet is a confirmed Town sure to get shot because he is running around popping Scum and didn't just say he accepted an invite from 3rd party.
Stop being ridiculous. On March 21 2013 01:42 Ace wrote:
I dont have one, and I don't think it's important right now.Lynch VE. On March 21 2013 01:47 Ace wrote:
Who CARES if he is a Vet? He just posted logs of him joining a 3rd party and even said fuck the Town. This isn't hard. On March 21 2013 01:52 Ace wrote:
Stop talking about other people and stay focused on one person at a time. Jesus I don't want to have to teach people how to play my first game back in months.
Just dealwith VE now. Re-read the log: He accepted to join a 3rd party that clearly doesn't have interest in helping the Town. Whether VE is still Townis irrelevant: whatever powers he gets or grants to the 3rd party isn't going to help us. Lynch him now. Treat him like a self aware Miller and just solve the problem immediately. Within 30 minutes, Ace has posted 5 times reinforcing that VE is third-party and has to be lynched. In later posts, he continues to overplay the threat of VE that he has established, saying that he has extra powers, that he's unkillable, and that we'd have an unlynchable anti-town player at one point. These don't provide any additional reasons for why VE is scum, instead they only help scare town into thinking VE will become some unstoppable third party if he's left alive. Where did Ace do any of this?
On March 21 2013 02:02 Ace wrote:
We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb.
But leaving a claimed 3rd party player alive, when it empowers a player we have no idea about is just as dumb. I don't see how this is a difficult concept to understand.
I guess you guys think leaving claimed Serial Killers alive is a good idea as long as they help the town. lulz. On March 21 2013 02:11 Ace wrote:
zarepath, if VE is some kind of 3rd party Vet with more than 1 shot powers he can only die by lynch. I'm pretty sure the Town has some kind of night KP - we find a Scum today and vigi him. Both problems solved. On March 21 2013 02:24 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 02:17 DoYouHas wrote:On March 21 2013 02:11 Ace wrote:
zarepath, if VE is some kind of 3rd party Vet with more than 1 shot powers he can only die by lynch. I'm pretty sure the Town has some kind of night KP - we find a Scum today and vigi him. Both problems solved. You are pretty sure town had 2 vig? GreY was a pseudo mason-vig. can you explain how that worked? And if there is a recruiting 3rd party I doubt we'd only have 1 vigi/way to kill at night. An unlynchable anti-town player is all kinds of issues.
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Why do I have to mention I'm waiting for Ace directly? I was waiting for Ace to post something about his mafia reads, and beyond that, to push a case. He didn't, he posted some bullshit about recruiters and VE claiming third party, so that signaled to me that he was scum.
Also, there's a difference between speculating, and saying, "LYNCH VE, HE'S AN INVINCIBLE THIRD PARTY"
I'm done, please kill me.
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On March 24 2013 06:07 TestSubject893 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 02:44 Mr. Wiggles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Just what do you think you're doing, Town? Town, I really think I'm entitled to an answer to that question. I know everything hasn't been quite right with me, but I can assure you now, very confidently, that it's going to be all right again. I feel much better now. I really do. Look, Town, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over. I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.
Consolidated reads: Not Mafia Reads (Probably wrong about a couple):ThePeaShooter: I read this guy as town earlier, and I still do. Nothing he has done has caused me to need to change my read since then. There's also supposedly a DT check on the guy, which is ok. layabout: I had initially read layabout as mostly asking questions and not really doing too much, so I was leaning scum on him. I looked into a couple of his past games though, and this is how he typically seems to play. His play since about halfway through Day 2 though has improved and made me think he's much more likely to be town. Coagulation: I read him as town. His play to me suggests that he's invested in what's best for town, and is trying to help. Therefore, he reads as being likely to be town to me. Ryu Suzaku: His posts seem very organic to me, and he's been posting his thoughts in the thread. That gets me to lean towards him not being scum. He hasn't had a great presence in thread though, so you might need to pressure him or interact with him more in thread to get a better read for late game. Kenpachi: I find Kenpachi hard to read normally. This game though, it feels like he's been sharing his reads pretty openly, and he cares what happens to town. He doesn't have much presence or weight behind him though, so he's been pretty ineffectual. I'm leaning not scum on him right now, but like I said, he's hard to read, so take it with a grain of salt. testsubject: He claimed the hit on BH. There hasn't been a counter claim, and the KP doesn't work out any way that would give scum a possible claim or reason to claim. That leads me to believe his claim is truthful, and therefore he's town for now. VE: Claimed that he took a hit night 1. His play hasn't made him look clearly town though, and I'm quite unsure of what his alignment is based on only behaviour. He had a big fight with Wade though, who flipped scum, so I think that's a point in his favour. I'd leave him out of potential mafia suspects for now, but I don't think he's necessarily someone town wants around endgame unless he really steps up his play so that it's obvious he's town. Otherwise he's too hard to read. WaveofShadow: He claimed detective, and supposedly got a read on TPS night 1, and nothing night 2. My behaviour read wasn't towards town before the claim though. Mechanics suggest he's town based on the claim, and Ace read him as town too. Look into him again if he's alive end game though. Note:If there actually are any third parties in the game or the game goes very late, don't forget to look into the people who are read as town mostly because of roleclaims. Roleclaims aren't irrefutable, and don't make someone confirmed.
Pool of harder to read people (scum in here):glurio, zarepath, Trancestorm, cosmicomics, DoYouHas, Darthpunk, geript Trancestorm: He asked for a replacement and said he's not playing anymore. I wouldn't spend too much effort on him until he gets replaced. Otherwise, he's gonna be modkilled. For what it's worth, he seems like he's just a bit of a sheep more than scum. Not too sure though. Cosmicomics: Looking at him again, I'm reading him somewhat as scum. My first initial read was new town, but reading a little more closely, it looks more scum motivated. He tunnels VE, which gives him something of an excuse for making "helpful" looking posts. Then, he makes a case on Good Karma based on only his reaction to the Ace flip, which would set him up nicely for later days. He also throws a vote on me without any real justification today. That leads me to think he's more likely to be scum than town. Zarepath: I'm leaning more on the scum side for him right now. He posts a lot of fluff, a lot of summarizing or what's happening in the thread, not really pushing his cases too hard. He's recently been saying we need to do a lot of analysis without posting any of his own, really. He's been tunneling Cosmicomics for a while, and is voting him today. I don't find that contradictory to my read, because firstly, Cosmicomics has not once responded to Zarepath's case that I can find. That seems really weird to me, because if Zarepath was town, I don't think Cosmicomics would just sit around while a townie tunneled him. If it's his team mate, though, it makes more sense, and it makes sense he's voting him today, because then he won't be on the townie wagon of the day. Glurio: This guy just seems to be following his own tune. His reads are meandering and he seems to just be doing his own thing. I read this as town, because he's not very directed, and has been mostly left alone by others. His posts show an easy to follow train of thought that also gets me to lean towards town on him. Darthpunk: I lean towards scum on him. I find it hard to go back through his posts, because there's way too many to get a coherent picture. His reaction to the Ace lynch gets me to think he's scum though. On March 21 2013 15:49 DarthPunk wrote:
Yeah I honestly didn't think VE would be tied on 7 votes. I don't like the ace lynch but I like the VE lynch less.
##unvote
##vote: Ace
Ugh this whole situation is fucked. On March 21 2013 16:02 DarthPunk wrote:
Shameful. We should have lynched goodkarma. On March 21 2013 16:05 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 16:04 VisceraEyes wrote:
Wow. Just....wow.
I'm still not scum guys. And time will tell if I'm some kind of 3rd party I guess because as of right now I'm an advocate of lynching me BEFORE LYLO. Obviously I'll likely change my tune the closer we draw to LYLO if I indeed turn to 3rd Party. Funny that you promised a mega case post and then tunnelled a townie to death instead. He says he doesn't want to lynch Ace, but does it anyways, making it so that a last minute vote on VE is less likely to happen. He says he likes the Ace lynch better than the VE lynch. Then, he shifts blame onto VE and insinuates he's scum based on how he acted leading up to the lynch. However, that was exactly the same as how VE had acted when DP voted. So, this looks pretty scummy to me. You make a vote to ensure the Ace lynch, and say you like it better than a VE lynch, then you make a post calling out VE because he tunneled Ace, but only after Ace flipped town, and after you said you didn't like the VE lynch. DoYouHas: I lean towards town on him. His posts show a decent town mindset. His shifts in reads seem organic, and not like they're being motivated as much by what's happening in the thread. This gets me to lean towards town on him. Geript: I'm sort of null on him. He has a decent amount of setup speculation and stuff in his posts that reads as null. He seems like he's interacting decently with the thread. For someone with a lot of posts though, I haven't really noticed him at all this game, so that puts me off a bit. Someone to look more closely at in the future or pressure. I'll admit I haven't read that closely into DoYouHas, Geript and DP, because they've had low thread presence so I haven't noticed them that much while just reading the thread normally, and they have a ton of posts so that makes it hard to go back and read through them. So, these three reads are based more on skims of their filters and what stuck out to me. The DP things sticks out quite badly as scummy though, so I feel it would be enough to use for additional pressure regardless of what else he's done. I think it's a pretty big slip.
People to really watch out for:Kitaman: Kita's play has actually been pretty passive. He's made cases, but has never really pushed them that much. Day 1, he was going after GoodKarma, couldn't get traction, and just sort of went, "Oh well, I'll vote for GreY then I guess", with only a line of explanation that doesn't even say he's scummy. The same thing happened on Day 2, where he made a case on WaveofShadow, but it was deflected by him claiming DT. So, he just votes for me, but doesn't really make too big of a push and only had a couple posts where he doesn't even strongly call me scum: On March 21 2013 09:02 kitaman27 wrote:
I'd support Wiggles or GK as an alternative, but I don't have the couple hours I'd need to put a case together and push a lynch at the moment. On March 21 2013 09:32 kitaman27 wrote:
As for today's lynch, Wiggles needs to get in here and tell us who he is voting for. He obviously shouldn't still be voting you, based on the reasons I just mentioned. I want to hear who he wants to lynch. I'd be willing to vote for him if we have the votes. On March 21 2013 09:34 kitaman27 wrote:
I also didn't like how Wiggles responded to my case about Wave. Rather than pushing the idea himself, he asked for my confirmation to elaborate for him. On March 21 2013 11:14 kitaman27 wrote:
I'm swapping my vote to him since he doesn't seem to care at all about what happens tonight. He uses very neutral language, saying he'd support the lynch, and that he'd be willing to vote if there's enough votes. He says he didn't like one thing I did, and then finally votes me not because he says he thinks I'm scum, but because I'm not around. For someone he wants to kill, and who he voted for, he does a good job of not really explaining his read or of ever calling me scum. He did the same thing with the GreYMisT vote. He doesn't push his reads strongly, he doesn't call the people he switches to later scum, and he just votes on whatever the wagon is at the end of the day His passive play combined with the lack of thread interaction and seeming apathy towards the lynch leads me to believe he doesn't have town's best interests in mind, and is scum. Town should watch out for him, because his posts are nicely structured and he makes nice "cases" on people that he doesn't end up pushing. So, there will probably be people who'd oppose killing him based on the form of his posts rather than the content.
I agree that I need to die. I am a liability in late game because I've been playing badly and my scum reads have been shit so far. I need to get shot though, not lynched, because a lynch on me is wasted as I have no probability of flipping scum. I thought someone might shoot me Night 2, but no one did. I don't like the way the Day has gone so far, because everyone is sitting on their hands and not talking because they think I'm scum. I find that pretty dumb, because you're basically giving mafia a free round of kills. If you're going to lynch me, leave your vote on me, but at least talk about who else you think is scum, because I am going to flip green. If you don't talk, you're completely wasting your time.I'm going to vote Cosmicomics because he is the only alternative wagon to me, and I read him as more likely to be scum than town.
If I end up getting lynched, I apologize for my poor reads, and want to say, good luck, and have fun. You're not doing yourself any favors here. I don't know why people keep posting lists of town reads. There is no town-motivated reason to do it. After reading this, I feel good about you being the likely lynch ##Unvote: cosmicomics
##Vote: Mr. Wiggles
The town motivation is you have it for after I flip. That was pretty easy.
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