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On March 06 2013 02:05 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 01:44 Hapahauli wrote:On March 05 2013 22:10 Vivax wrote:
I'm FoSing you Artanis.
Your play looks forced. Huh wait. Since when do you FoS people? Last I played with you (Normal Mini IV), you weren't afraid at all to throw your vote around on people you wanted answers from in the early game. I don't remember seeing it in other games either. It doesn't seem like you're scared to throw around your vote in general (due to your "joke" vote on Jay)... On March 05 2013 16:32 Vivax wrote:
It's abut 8:30 AM here and I'm about to move out. I support a jay lynch for the time being until I see something that convinces me otherwise.
##Vote jaybrundage
Best mislynch NA ... so what gives? You're voting someone for mysterious policy reasons, and pursuing your scumreads elsewhere. It doesn't look like you care about your vote, and your FoS looks like a neutered version of the pressure I've seen from you as town. I like this post and it was something that escaped me the first time I saw him post. It seems he realized it too after doing it since he moved his vote to me a bit later despite nothing really having changed since then. ##Vote: VivaxRegarding Promethelax: I'm not liking it either. Not reading the thread can be explained as both town and scum, but given the detail of his questions, they're fairly specifically formulated. Generally when you know what you're looking for, you can find it in a thread if it's there. I still like the Vivax point more, though.
This post got buried too quickly for my taste. I want everyone's thoughts on Vivax, specifically the thing Hapa pointed out.
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Prome, comment on Vivax please.
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On March 06 2013 04:17 Promethelax wrote:
Artanits: comment on Thrawn please.
Tunneling you but not extremely hard, though it isn't necessary as you're getting plenty of pressure from the thread already. His aggression weighs up to this and ranks him at a null, but I'd like to hear him about people that aren't you.
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On March 06 2013 04:25 Promethelax wrote:
So Art: you have thrawn as null but follow up on. Besides Vivax do you see another scum candidate?
Nothing at first glance, but when we have people like jaybrundage who haven't said anything worthwhile yet there's still plenty of time. I like Hapa and I'm currently not interested in lynching you with your activity level right now. Helvetica is off limits for obvious reasons though I'd like him to chime in as well. Being near-confirmed town doesn't mean you get to sit on your ass and contribute nothing. I'm leaning town on Dandel Ion, and I'm null on thrawn, cheesecake.
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On March 06 2013 04:30 Vivax wrote:
Huh. Me scum for not voting someone but then doing it? That's interesting... Meta sucks when you don't know how to use it.
You're scum for FoSing me which is something you apparently never do whilst you were happy to vote on someone as a joke earlier in the thread. When you realized this leap in logic, you quickly voted for me despite nothing having changed that could make you go from FoS to an actual vote.
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On March 06 2013 04:42 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 04:34 Hapahauli wrote:On March 06 2013 04:30 Vivax wrote:
Huh. Me scum for not voting someone but then doing it? That's interesting... Meta sucks when you don't know how to use it.
I'm not too sure between jay and Prome currently but Prome just did something that I don't think I would see him doing as mafia. Jay instead is rather lurky that's not good. It makes sense to be scared to post as scum from his perspective.
My top priority remains Artanis as of now, I don't like how he hooked onto a bad argument to vote for me and his start into the game remains scummy. List 'o questions: 1) What is the rationale behind your Jay policy lynch pre-game? 2) Since when do you FoS players? 1) The only rationale was: I just finished reading the game, had no real scumread and threw down a vote on a guy who didn't post in the game yet before going to uni. Don't think he posted before since the game started. 2) You think someone is scum or not scum for pressuring with a FoS instead of a vote? What is the difference between FoS and a vote except for the function of hammering a vote brings with it? I bet you will try to skip this question.Feel free to answer this question if you like but even talking about this seems so stupid I will just leave that as optional for you. Since when? When I feel like pressuring people, problem amigo?
Because it's a massive difference in psychology. A FoS is vastly different from a vote in terms of confidence. A FoS indicates you don't really want to vote them yet, but are suspicious of them. A vote indicates a greater degree of certainty. The fact that you went from a FoS to a vote with nothing happening in between shows that you realized your lapse of logic in the meantime and tried to salvage the situation by voting on me and hoping no one would notice. It's a subconscious thing.
I just checked if you used it before. You did so once, when you were scum., and once when you were town. The difference is, in the scum game you changed your mind an hour and a half in. In the town game, you changed your mind over the course of two days and didn't even end up voting for the guys you FoSed. Your current meta matches up with your scum game, and not your town game.
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On March 06 2013 05:05 Vivax wrote:
Oh shit doublepost sorry BH have mercy please please.
Well that makes it more iampy doesn't it. I had to lend iamp's power for this one.
To add something more substantial to this: I'll make a recap of what I found scummy about artanis.
[*] Enters the thread first joking then immediately going serious mode on Hapa.
[*] Posts something about Hapa that actually made him likely town in my eyes and calls it buddying, not giving out townreads.
[*] You can only call it buddying when you think/know the people he gave townreads to are town. In totes, I disliked the whole buddying argument.
I did not read my alignment yet before these points. I also don't consider them anti-town. I entered the thread jokingly, then realized a bunch of people had already posted and people might react negatively to me for it. Regardless of your alignment, you do not want to get lynched so I started to actually read after that. Also, when you post town reads, in my eyes you're buddying up to them. Look look how townie I think you are do you think I'm townie too please say yes
[*] He reacted strongly defensive to a simple FoS and my following posts and didn't actively tried to persuade me that Hapa's actions were scummy.
I'm a defensive player. You were in Fruity Mafia, you saw how much time I spent looking as confirmed as possible. I was town.
[*] When asked about his stance on Hapa he didn't want to commit and I read that as fearful. Why does he ask Hapa questions about something if he doesn't think it's scummy?
I thought it was strange at first, that's why I brought it up. Later, I realized that posting something like that this fearlessly weighs up to the buddying.
[*] He sheeps Hapa's bad argument against me "Oh I didn't see that point before"-style, that looks convenient and not like he sincerely reads me as scum.
That it's a bad argument is your opinion. I think it's a strong one, and I'm not the only one that sees it that way. What a surprise that the person whose being accused things his accusation is poor.
Will post arguments for why I think Hapa is town where Artanis said he saw buddying and also why the way of Artanis attacking that post was scummy when I feel like and when I got enough feedback on Arta.
What are you even saying here?
In the meantime, discussing whether a FoS is a massive difference in psychology like Artanis wants me to is so abysmal I refuse to do that. He confirmed by himself I used that as both alignments and
[*] Bends that to his purposes of calling me scum by noticing irrelevant differences.
Yeah, because those timings are completely irrelevant. They are key differences and show the difference in mindset between the two games. You're showing the mindset you had in the scumgame in this game.
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wut
I'm going to have to process this jump and place it somewhere first. I just
wut
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On March 06 2013 05:34 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 06 2013 05:27 Hapahauli wrote:For the record, I would bet my left nut that Artanis is town at this point. Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 04:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On March 06 2013 04:42 Vivax wrote:On March 06 2013 04:34 Hapahauli wrote:On March 06 2013 04:30 Vivax wrote:
Huh. Me scum for not voting someone but then doing it? That's interesting... Meta sucks when you don't know how to use it.
I'm not too sure between jay and Prome currently but Prome just did something that I don't think I would see him doing as mafia. Jay instead is rather lurky that's not good. It makes sense to be scared to post as scum from his perspective.
My top priority remains Artanis as of now, I don't like how he hooked onto a bad argument to vote for me and his start into the game remains scummy. List 'o questions: 1) What is the rationale behind your Jay policy lynch pre-game? 2) Since when do you FoS players? 1) The only rationale was: I just finished reading the game, had no real scumread and threw down a vote on a guy who didn't post in the game yet before going to uni. Don't think he posted before since the game started. 2) You think someone is scum or not scum for pressuring with a FoS instead of a vote? What is the difference between FoS and a vote except for the function of hammering a vote brings with it? I bet you will try to skip this question.Feel free to answer this question if you like but even talking about this seems so stupid I will just leave that as optional for you. Since when? When I feel like pressuring people, problem amigo? Because it's a massive difference in psychology. A FoS is vastly different from a vote in terms of confidence. A FoS indicates you don't really want to vote them yet, but are suspicious of them. A vote indicates a greater degree of certainty. The fact that you went from a FoS to a vote with nothing happening in between shows that you realized your lapse of logic in the meantime and tried to salvage the situation by voting on me and hoping no one would notice. It's a subconscious thing. I just checked if you used it before. You did so once, when you were scum., and once when you were town. The difference is, in the scum game you changed your mind an hour and a half in. In the town game, you changed your mind over the course of two days and didn't even end up voting for the guys you FoSed. Your current meta matches up with your scum game, and not your town game. When I mentioned the Vivax "FoS" thing, he went through all his games and found all the instances of that in Vivax's meta. That's far too much :effort: for scum. Scum would accept my allegation as 100% true rather than such a specific filter dig. That's incorrect, I do things that show effort as scum too, I dig up meta and post notes and shit. What we see here is just an effort to ride on an awful points trying to imply I'm scum based on a time difference between a FoS and a vote which is so ridiculous I don't want to discuss the basic flaws of it like Artanis wants me to.
It's not just the time difference, it's that nothing changed between the FoS and the vote yet you changed from a FoS to a vote, which collaborated with your scum game which played out very similarly, yet not with your town game. That you don't grasp this simple concept is beyond me, and using the "it's so dumb I won't even address it" argument is not going to work for you here.
I still have no clue how to read the sudden change.
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Also in case Vivax flips green, since we can't talk at night anymore and I might get killed, I'd want Promethelax looked at next in case I get shot.
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And I'm gonna play the new ME3 DLC now, might read up before I go to bed but don't expect any more posts until tomorrow.
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On March 06 2013 05:54 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 04:31 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On March 06 2013 04:25 Promethelax wrote:
So Art: you have thrawn as null but follow up on. Besides Vivax do you see another scum candidate? Nothing at first glance, but when we have people like jaybrundage who haven't said anything worthwhile yet there's still plenty of time. I like Hapa and I'm currently not interested in lynching you with your activity level right now. Helvetica is off limits for obvious reasons though I'd like him to chime in as well. Being near-confirmed town doesn't mean you get to sit on your ass and contribute nothing. I'm leaning town on Dandel Ion, and I'm null on thrawn, cheesecake. This is Art's last stated opinion on me. So I am interested in what changed for him. I'm also interested in why he thinks he is a better nk target than the good doctor.
I said I wasn't interested in seeing you lynched today because there are better candidates as well as less active ones. I see a much better target in Vivax and more inactive players in Jay for example. That doesn't mean I liked all of your posts today.
I think I'm a better target than the doctor because I'm playing the game and he hasn't made a post in quite some time. If he goes afk, why would he be shot? I even mentioned that he's afking in the post you quoted, surely you can extrapolate the logic from that.
And now I'm really going to play.
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Morning.
Jay looks awful. It makes little sense that he'd resign this easily while contributing absolutely nothing. Since there's no vigi possible in any of the setups and we can be pretty sure scum won't shoot him when he isn't scum we'd have this question roaming around town until we decide to lynch him. I want to give Jay one last chance to come up with his own reads before anyone hammers him though. The lynch is going very easily, but it could be a bus so eh.
Regarding Vivax:
I still think the post I made on him regarding the FoS thing is strong, and it's still a cause for concern. However, his posting as of late has been good and that can't be overlooked. I'm not willing to lynch him right now after the interactions he's had with Promethelax especially, in which I'd say the latter didn't look as good. He seems suspicious of everyone, is throwing his votes around and commenting on a lot of things. If he's scum, I should be able to find something other than the nugget I had. I haven't yet. Prome's case on him feels weak.
Regarding his case on me:
He keeps stressing the point about me calling out Hapa on his town reads and calling it buddying. I found it suspicious that he was happy to call people townie for such little reason, which presumed me to believe he was trying to gain favour from people. Furthermore, I hadn't even read my role yet so there was little reason for me to pursue scum agenda there. I didn't even make reads on the guys he called green yet, I just saw that post, had read the posts before and thought "what, how can you say that after this little content" after which I posted the comment I did.
Regarding Helvetica's post:
His vote post is so wishy washy that it's obviously just a pressure vote rather than actually suspecting me. His main argument is that I'm noncommital; I'm always noncommital. I'm an honest person in character and find it difficult to overexaggerate things or try to mislead people, so I don't do those things. I push people as strong as my case is, and my case on Vivax rested on the meta argument I provided before. I don't pretend to be more confident then I am. As for the argument that Prome is playing different from his meta: I haven't digged into it yet. You can't expect me to meta read every single player in the game before making statements about them.
Tl;dr I'm not willing to lynch Vivax anymore until I get more evidence that he is scum and I'm good with a jay lynch unless he suddenly improves strongly. I still want to give him a chance to reply though.
## Unvote
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Oh and I'm going to look into Prome and his meta later.
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I want to lynch Jay if he doesn't strongly up his game. Prome is my second suspect but I still need to do more research for that which I'm too lazy to do right now but will get to later.
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Great, now we're not allowed to post and hosts are probably sleeping 
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It's hard to post when you're asleep Hapa. I'll work on a big post in a minute. Ask me anything and I'll include it in there.
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On March 07 2013 09:02 Vivax wrote:
I just read jay's filter it makes me confident in Artanis being scum and Prom actually town. This isn't definite but I'm willing to lynch Artanis over Prom currently.
No mentioning of Artanis whatsoever except for once where he called me scummy for attacking Artanis and then backing off him.
Prom say goodbye to your relationship and be prepared for my ranting about you attacking me in such scummy and dishonest ways if you are indeed town.
##Unvote
##Vote Artanis
I think Vivax is town now.. At this point, people were suspecting Prome a bit but no one was really questioning me. Given Prome's tunneling on Vivax he could easily have gotten away with continued tunneling on Prome, yet he didn't and changed his opinion, albeit on something retarded.
Jay didn't mention me, no. He didn't even answer the question I asked him. Why would a scum master plan include an unanswered question? He also never discussed me because by the time there was actually some suspicion on me not from you, he already went into resignation mode. All he did until then was answer about whatever was the town's main suspect. He has almost no content in his filter about anything else. I've already commented on the rest of your reasons for calling me scum. As to anyone calling me scum for not being super duper convinced about people: Check my meta. I never am. I'm also not a veteran, I've just been around for a long time. That doesn't mean I've played a lot of games.
Regarding the town PM claim thingy; I made sure to check the OP to see if it's in there before I said anything as I didn't want to cheat.
Just checked out Promethelax' meta. Unfortunately it's inconclusive as the last scum game he's played has been a while ago. In this game, he's sheeped my opinions at the start, also commenting on Hapa calling other people town quickly, though he stepped off of it about as quickly as I did. His interactions seem to be suspicious of everyone, but overly so. Vivax indicated that he didn't like both my, your and Jay's posting. Continuously going on about the order of it feels disgenuine. He calls Vivax scum for not actually wanting to get his scumreads lynched despite the fact that he's been hammering on me all game for a 180 when he asked me to lynch you. I've finally decided that I lean town on that; it feels too ballsy and spontaneous for scum. The rest of Prome's filter focuses nearly entirely on Vivax, calling him scum with nigh every post. Fuck, despite that some things feel off in his filter I can't reconcile this idea with Prome being scum. If he is indeed scum and gets Vivax lynched as green, he'd look terrible and definitely not survive two more lynches. He also looks to be genuinely wanting a Vivax lynch.
With Hapa claiming to be the other named VT, he's obviously town but I already felt that way about him. That leaves Dandel Ion, Thrawn, and Mr. Cheesecake . Dandel Ion seems to be a massive troll that likes posting a bunch of oneliners that mean nothing. In his scum game though he was a lot more serious, as was the case in his first scum game. Even in his accusatory posts as town, he's more jovial than as scum. His current game fits his meta as town.
Thrawn has played a mildly active game at best. In his most recent scum game he got caught on day 1. The other scumgame he played he also had a short 8-page filter in a 200 page game. In this town needs guns, he was more active, though still not as much as others. Thrawn has been more active this game. His hammer of Jay felt premature but I don't think it's a scumtell.
Cheesecake's activity has been depressingly low and his filter is awful. He's doing nothing, but it doesn't line up with both his town and scum meta so it's not alignment revealing. In his godfather scum game he played a very pandering game, trying to stay on everyone's good side. The scum game's a few months back so it could be that he's learned from then. Cheesecake's played a poor game so far. What's weird is how he formulated his reads. First he said he wants to lynch Vivax/Jay/Prome with me as a maybe, then he indicates I'm now his main suspect with Promethelax and Vivax also being good candidates. His hammering on Jay could be a bus, and it's the only serious pressure he's given anyone. Also.
On March 06 2013 02:13 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Just to give a scummy little list here I think Hapa, Dr.H, Dandel, Artanis and myself are town. Thrawn kinda null but he's cool atm.
I'll lynch me a Vivax, Prom, or Jay today. I'll throw a dart at a board and see which one I hit.
On March 06 2013 13:37 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I'll be happy with any lynch that is Vivax / Jay / Artanis (maybe?) / Prom. Basically half the thread, which is cool. Jay is the optimal starting point.
On March 07 2013 10:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Artanis has a good chance to flip scum imo. I also think prom and vivax are good candidates for today.
What's changed in these times? You've made a full 180 and you haven't said why. You haven't contributed to town other than telling your reads when prompted, you've been a lot less active than you have in your previous games, and your filter is pretty bad. Given I don't see scum elsewhere Cheesecake is my current top suspect. No reasoning for read changes, and is playing a jovial game which contradicts his recent town game.
##Vote: Mr. Cheesecake
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EPT
