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TL Mafia LX - Page 19

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DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 11 2013 01:10 GMT
#4215
The situation is only desperate assuming there is a bartender which if that's the case, he has basically already won. If it is 1 scum versus 4 town there is at least one more chance to get it right. There's always a chance at an armorer or vet so it could even be another day after that.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 11 2013 01:19 GMT
#4216
It's also really weird that you seem to be trying to win my trust or prove to me that you're legitimate when you think I'm scum you shouldn't care about either of those things since those things mean nothing to scum, all that matters is the mislynch
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 11 2013 01:22 GMT
#4218
Why do we have to assume there is a bartender
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 11 2013 01:31 GMT
#4221
Oh, I for some reason though the bartender had to ignite in thread like a dayvig
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 11 2013 01:31 GMT
#4222
*thought
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 11 2013 01:36 GMT
#4225
Because I thought the bartender ignited people with a Ignite because I didn't read the role. Something that happens in literally every game I've played, I almost never read OPs. As scum or town. I just don't do it because it's not something that interests me. I don't think I've ever pushed for a lynch based on how night actions resolved. The way MilkSuckler took Vivax apart is something I would and could never have done in a mafia game.

Explain how that is a scumtell though
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 11 2013 01:36 GMT
#4226
i think people were alerted to me not caring by me saying i dont care and not posting a long time ago

tell me why not caring translates into scum in my case and why this means i am mafia instead of just bored
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 11 2013 02:23 GMT
#4228
My inactivity is 2/3rds the fact that I'm usually at work during the majority of the days discussion and filter diving has become really unattractive in a game that I would have conceded days ago if I were scum.

It's not beyond my reach but it's not something I ever do. Different people scumhunt in different ways. I limit myself to looking strictly between the lines because it's the thing I think I'm best at. It's why my Day 1 reads are so good and then my game takes a dive after that because I try to branch off with my analysis into things I'm not very good at doing. Some people like to catch scum by thinking really hard about the setup/night actions and laying traps or catching people in impossible logic/bad roleclaims. Those players fill that role pretty well and I don't because it's not the thing about mafia I find interesting, I just want to look at the behavior side of things. Some people like to ask lots of questions, some people like to rely on association reads, some people like to conspiracy theory, etc.

I don't do any of those games. I swear to you I've gone 3-4 days into a game as town without even realizing there was a certain role in the game. Someone starts talking about the mad hatter and I didn't even know there was a mad hatter. I don't care because it's not really relevant to the way I analyze things. It's an aspect of my game I absolutely should improve on though, I'll give you that.

If I was assuming mafia had 3 KP how would I make that assumption if I were scum? That's a point +100000 for how lazy I'm playing but has nothing to do with my alignment. I figured mafia killed MilkSuckler after learning his bombs weren't on any of them and the fourth KP I didn't really pay attention to but you're right, it must be the bartender.

I would tell you this though, as scum I take things very seriously and if I stopped caring about the game I'd at least ask for a replacement out of respect for my teammates. I wouldn't just tank and stop caring like I am now because I figured town had won a long time ago. Do you watch sports? It's like when an elite team plays against some scrub team not even going to make the playoffs and gets owned because they underestimate their opponents and don't even try. That's what I've done in this game. I won't make any promises that I will care a lot later but if I'm the last scum in this game, I would throw in the towel the right way which is a PM to GreYMisT.

What I have learned to trust is my Day 1/2 analysis when I was caring about this game and I'm trying to get back in touch with what I was thinking then and put the rest of events into perspective. Vivax had absolutely no response to my case and after some weak confusion about the night actions there wasn't much of a defense except for people who wanted jcarlsoniv dead instead. It's not just that you had soniv as a higher scumread than Vivax (I'm dubious about that because I think I nailed him pretty hard on Day 1 but just got sidetracked whereas Jcarls at least put surface effort into scumhunting and was more townie about the way he acted by far) but you seemed to be legitimately upset that Vivax would be lynched at all. Now MilkSuckler is gone.

So far you've managed to demonstrate that I've lacked interest and effort in this game - as is true for every game I play in - but now can you demonstrate why that makes me scum and what my scum motivations are for not even reading what happens? So I can reference my disinterested town meta that you have no idea about since it's been almost a year since I've been active? So I can make a meta defense (which I hate doing) against people who don't know me? That's a conspiracy theory at best.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 11 2013 02:42 GMT
#4232
I'm the bartender who doesn't even know what the bartender does until now

oh i see
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 11 2013 02:43 GMT
#4233
I'll have you know, I at least read my own role. I'm not that lazy.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 11 2013 02:44 GMT
#4234
And to clarify (no agenda in this post, just purely meta talk) - by scum I mean all non-town factions. Town has to lynch third-party to win so bartender/mutant in this case would be included in scum as well as the mafia team.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 12 2013 00:20 GMT
#4290
Can you post the Day post asap (as soon as you get actions) because this could be endgame if 1 town and either scum or bartender die tonight which is likely.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 13 2013 00:22 GMT
#4383
I'm pretty upset at my play in this game. I can blame it as much as I want on inactivity and losing interest after a great 2-3 days but I need to get out of this habit of abandoning my good reads that come up early in the game and just sheeping other people because I'm too lazy to keep up the activity level. If I could play the way I play Day 1 throughout a whole game, I'd be a much better player. But I never do.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 13 2013 00:24 GMT
#4384
On March 13 2013 08:44 WaveofShadow wrote:
GG guys! I'm really sad we fucked up due to inactivity but I'll try harder to make more cases lategame nest time.
Any specific criticisms anyone has for me? (Aside from less WIFOMing myself and conspiracy theories?)

More focus. Spend more time thinking about your top reads and tunneling on those. Try to parse out what scumtells worked for you in this game and which ones didn't and go back through scum filters and really look at the behavior over anything else. In general, just increasing your focus and ability to communicate your reads more concisely to the town will make you a better player. I felt like you were kind of all over the place with what you were posting about and pretty much everyone can benefit from trimming the fat and working on their scumhunting
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 13 2013 00:30 GMT
#4390
On March 13 2013 08:28 layabout wrote:
1) why did you modkill toad and not hassy when hassy told toad stuff about the game??

2) why the hell did y'all think toad was mafia???

3)can anybody tell why they found me so scummy?

1) I personally wouldn't modkill a player for a slip like that, I'd talk to both of them in private and make sure that none of them ever brought it up in the thread. Toadesstern did the right thing by not going after hassy in that regard. Toades used outside information to push his own alignment and that's definitely intentional cheating imo, I was the one who brought it to the attention of the mods.

2) I have a better sense of his personality now. I just found it extremely convenient that he was that confident about a read 2 hours into the first day, tbh I don't think Prom's RNG stuff would have been incredibly problematic if he had improved his play later instead of basically scumclaiming. He used the rest of the day to push his town cred and insult everybody else and I just didn't see the townieness in it. I don't understand why he went off to say that the people that pushed Prom were basically confirmed town either and then martyred himself on top of all of that. It was very disappointing to me when he flipped.

3) Your interest in the game seemed really passive and I guess that's just the kind of player you are. I don't pay enough attention to the metagame/personality of particular people and it throws my reads off but I never really pushed you anyway.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 13 2013 00:32 GMT
#4391
On March 13 2013 09:24 TestSubject893 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2013 09:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'm pretty upset at my play in this game. I can blame it as much as I want on inactivity and losing interest after a great 2-3 days but I need to get out of this habit of abandoning my good reads that come up early in the game and just sheeping other people because I'm too lazy to keep up the activity level. If I could play the way I play Day 1 throughout a whole game, I'd be a much better player. But I never do.


I had convinced myself you were scum sometime around day 3, but was too afraid of the spotlight to say anything.

Scum either left me alive to push a late mislynch or they could feel my interest level/reads were poor enough that I wasn't a threat. My play was great Day 1, I stand by that, but when you don't read the thread for yourself it's easy to get swayed by mafia. I think by the time it was close to LYLO, I hadn't been interested in the thread for a while and there just wasn't enough time to really catch up and put all the pieces together. Funnily enough, I was reading the WoS lynch about an hour before it happened at work, locking up trailers, and the first thing I thought was "I really think I should have pushed TestSubject today". An hour later, WoS flips settler.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 13 2013 00:34 GMT
#4394
On March 13 2013 09:29 Mocsta wrote:
Dr.H/anyone:

Can i please have some constructive feedback?

I thought you played pretty well. Read Ver's guide, look at your reads in this game and just tighten up your play. It's important to look at the instances you were right and why you were right, the instances you were wrong and why you were wrong, and then come to some kind of evaluation about what you contributed. Look through your filter and try to check off the kind of posts you made that didn't add anything productive and all of that.

I thought you did an excellent job as far as sticking to your reads and you seemed pretty confident. That's a plus.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-13 00:34:57
March 13 2013 00:34 GMT
#4395
On March 13 2013 09:32 Toadesstern wrote:
where did I use outside information to push my own alignment?

Posting IRC/Whatever logs about you talking with another player about how town you were

Saying you were talking with other people on skype and how they all knew you were town and thought we were stupid

That's not ok. In fact I was going to quit the game if you weren't modkilled for it.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 13 2013 00:36 GMT
#4397
I'm also changing my policy of avoiding lurkers. I've always felt that lurkers are extremely hard to deal with and early in the game it's easy for mafia to deflect the lynch onto town lurkers versus their own but I don't care anymore. When you get to crunch time and there's nothing to analyze because half the surviving players have 1 page filters or 3 page filters full of nothing that's a terrrrrrible situation to be in
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 13 2013 00:37 GMT
#4398
On March 13 2013 09:35 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2013 09:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
On March 13 2013 09:29 Mocsta wrote:
Dr.H/anyone:

Can i please have some constructive feedback?

The vets don't jerk each other off - but you have to understand that some people listen to others more than they're gonna listen to you no matter how well reasoned you are (or perceive yourself to be). It's a byproduct of being more familiar with someone's playstyle, or having a better read on someone than on you, or something else usually. It has nothing to do with "newbie hate" or "vet circle-jerking" or whatever you perceive it to be. It's just playing the game of Mafia with people who know each other better than they know you. Give it time - you'll be one of the people listen to more than others soon enough.


To be fair, this is a sentiment that was fostered early on by Vivax...but whatever, I felt like I needed to say it to you because that's something you bought into.

I basically forgot about my case on Vivax (lazy) but after he flipped blue in BEM I was pretty much 99.999% he was mafia in this game.
RIP Aaliyah
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