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On February 26 2013 00:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Cora, you are picking up on the smallest of things, and things that dont even exist?
Iamp gets slammed almost every game for being too free with his town reads, I thought it was funny and I dont think he thought I was attacking him.
Well why can Yamato get away with stuff but Iamp can't? You have to admit that it's a little unfair. It's not being consistent. Why is it when you attack Iamp for making town reads and not attack Yamato for the same thing? If you think it's a scummy action, it's at least slightly scummy everytime someone does it. It's not scummy when Iamp does it and not when Yamato does it.
It can be scummier due to metas, but you can't let Yamato get off scot free with it.
What is the point of this post other than defend zare for nothing and attacking me for nothing?
And giving advice? Its day 1, difficult to glean understanding of someones alignment if you only look at day 1 alone.
Look and LIX, Marv pointed out me and Prp with META, its not useless and if used properly really useful. Also look at hapa and Thrawn, with the same info and different outcomes, due to their knowledge of Iamps meta, is a good point that could mean that one of them is scum. Or not. We will see.
That's why I'm going to re-read the thread and see if I can sort all of these attacks out.
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On February 26 2013 00:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
I am not attacking Iamp.
Then you are giving him advice, which you just told me not to do...
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On February 26 2013 04:50 Snarfs wrote:
Also adding this so I don't forget later:
Right up until page 20 when a few more people showed up in the game, lots of talk was on Hapa but Corazon completely ignored that discussion and went after Oats, if I recall correctly. I'm a little rusty on how to interpret that, but it seemed noteworthy.
Are you serious? I went after the fact that Oats was being inconsistent. What I said had nothing to do with the back and forth and forth and forth between all the experienced vets (which I will get to reading right after I post this). That was a really weak point to bring up, and I'm really surprised that you've decided to focus on that instead of everything else that has gone on.
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On February 26 2013 00:13 cDgCorazon wrote:
3. When I get home from school (in a few hours), I am going to re-read the pages with the whole go around between the TL veterans (basically everyone but the lurkers, me, Adam, Yamato, and Dieno).
Maybe you haven't read the thread enough...
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Anyways, I read through the back-and-forth with all of the vets.
Hapa's attack on Iamp did not have very good grounds to start with. Hapa said that Iamp's posts have not been sensical and the fact that Iamp is going to defend Yamato "till the end" just because he has a town read on him now. While I agree with the concern over Iamp's attitude towards Yamato (especially because he went on to say that reads can change. Pretty contradictory), I don't think all of Iamp's posts up to that point were nonsensical. He had made a couple of good points and Hapa only made mention of the bad ones.
Hapa and Iamp have their little back and forth and Iamp basically besides to become all egotistical and say that his abilities to scumhunt are paralled by none.
On February 25 2013 11:51 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:46 Acrofales wrote:On February 25 2013 11:41 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:41 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:40 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:38 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:34 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:30 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:25 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:22 Hapahauli wrote:
[quote]
I can finally get to work since players not named Marv, Yamato, or Corazon are finally starting to post.
As for you, what the hell have you done that's useful? I see a lot of random name-dropping and not much of substance. You've championed "Yamato is Town, I will defend him 'till the end," yet everything else in your filter is completely unexplained and or nonsensical. Case in point:
[quote]
[quote]
did you find dino and snarfs entry to be town entrances?????????????? as for the thrawn thing we have history bro and i dont think he is stupid. How the fuck are those first-posts allignment indicative? Thrawn read still makes zero sense given that he gave you a scumread when you'd made like 2 inconsequential posts in several hours. yo bro you can question my logic all you want. im just telling you what i think i caught thrawn in our last game together. he attacked me after lurking i dont think as scum he would be stupid enough to go after me again. but if this is all your going to be doing hapa your scum in my eyes. Naw man. This game is coming way too easily to you right now. Especially the bolded: not once have you explained why you think those posts (by Snarf and Dieno) are scummy. You just name-drop and move on. You're telling us plenty of what you think, but nothing about why you think so. Y u so scummy iamp? lol i have to explain why dino first post was scummy to you??? how about you go read it. Newbie player makes wishy-washy newbie post. Your turn. dino was so easy to read in chrono checkmate That's a complete misrepresentation of dino in that game and you know it. Dieno's claim to townhood was making a plan which was ridiculous and coming up with a crazy campaign for team leader. He also claimed in order to get included in the party. All-in-all, it was enough for a town read on a complete newbie. Dieno is no longer a complete newbie. Also, Dieno was mislynched in Parallel Universe for his wishy washy opening post and not delivering afterwards. If you're trying to say Dieno is scum for not living up to CT, you need to do better than that and read his other games as well. So far I have no clue about Dieno's alignment, but the meta you just plonked in here is completely wrong. not really everybody else needed that stuff i had him pegged as town after two posts. didnt read parallel
Another issue I have in this whole argument is this post:
On February 25 2013 11:41 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:40 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:38 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:34 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:30 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:25 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:22 Hapahauli wrote:On February 25 2013 11:06 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 11:03 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Yamato + Cora
Can you both take a breather and calmly explain who your scumreads are and why? Both of you are at the throat of every person who accuses you, and I can't keep track of it for the life of me. hey you ive been looking at you. you haven't said a god damn thing yet (you can check your filter its all policy and useless stuff) you have just kind of been here with your pretty looking posts and your playing peace keeper why you not putting anything original in the thread you scum dog? I can finally get to work since players not named Marv, Yamato, or Corazon are finally starting to post. As for you, what the hell have you done that's useful? I see a lot of random name-dropping and not much of substance. You've championed "Yamato is Town, I will defend him 'till the end," yet everything else in your filter is completely unexplained and or nonsensical. Case in point: On February 25 2013 10:12 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 10:07 marvellosity wrote:
Snarfs is not scummier than thrawn after that abomination of a post. Dunno what you're smoking, iamp he attacked me means he is probably town since i hadn't mentioned him at all. scum thrawn should no better than to attack me On February 25 2013 10:28 iamperfection wrote:
the answer is snarfs or dino man corazon. did you find dino and snarfs entry to be town entrances?????????????? as for the thrawn thing we have history bro and i dont think he is stupid. How the fuck are those first-posts allignment indicative? Thrawn read still makes zero sense given that he gave you a scumread when you'd made like 2 inconsequential posts in several hours. yo bro you can question my logic all you want. im just telling you what i think i caught thrawn in our last game together. he attacked me after lurking i dont think as scum he would be stupid enough to go after me again. but if this is all your going to be doing hapa your scum in my eyes. Naw man. This game is coming way too easily to you right now. Especially the bolded: not once have you explained why you think those posts (by Snarf and Dieno) are scummy. You just name-drop and move on. You're telling us plenty of what you think, but nothing about why you think so. Y u so scummy iamp? lol i have to explain why dino first post was scummy to you??? how about you go read it. Newbie player makes wishy-washy newbie post. Your turn.
Hapa goes and basically plays the noob card for Dieno. I know that it's scummy enough to play the noob card for oneself, but the fact that Hapa used it to defend Dieno is scummy as well. However, it did fit into his later logic that reads should not be made off of one post and that he had a null read on both.
How this argument ended was ridiculously silly. Once it looked like Hapa was not going to gain anything else with this, he basically used Iamp's answer to get out of pressuring him. I, like others, do not understand how saying "because I felt like it" is an automatic town tell? Yamato hit the nail on the head for why I think Hapa ended the argument:
On February 25 2013 12:24 yamato77 wrote:
No, it's just Hapa finding a reason to get off iamp once he figures out that the thread isn't following him.
I don't know if it's a pride issue or whatever with Hapa, but he could've handled this way better that how he did. That had to have been the worst possible way to end an argument. I don't understand the reasoning, and I'm starting to get a scummy vibe from Hapa.
This is what I see. I'm going to make another post with a few other small things to say as well, but here is my 2 cents on Hapa.
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A few other things I would like to point out:
Oats' play so far has been a bit shaky for me. I already pointed out the fact that he is being inconsistent towards Iamp and other players, but he hasn't made any clear effort to scumhunt. Most of his filter has been directing discussion and debates with others, but he hasn't brought in any clear direction with his posts. He has made several hints to him thinking players are scummy:
On February 25 2013 20:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
Acro is also somewhat scummy, cant really pin down what it is though :/
On February 26 2013 01:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Welcome to scumland Zarepath, at least in my book :D
The points where he has shown doubt and suspicion on another player (and not their arguments) have been thrown out there, but he hasn't put anything behind them. The one time where he expanded on one of these points:
On February 25 2013 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I get a different feeling in this game than LIX.
He is not really stepping up here, even in LIX he didnt run for mayor until half of the first cycle was gone.
So therefore, I dont really think marv is helping town so far. So therefore he is scummy.
Acro's response basically explains how I feel about this:
On February 25 2013 12:13 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I get a different feeling in this game than LIX.
He is not really stepping up here, even in LIX he didnt run for mayor until half of the first cycle was gone.
So therefore, I dont really think marv is helping town so far. So therefore he is scummy.
This is completely contradictory. In LIX Marv didn't step up until later. He was town there. In this game, Marv has not stepped up in the first 4 (or so) hours of the game. Therefore Marv is scummy this game. This makes no sense to me. Oats, your reads so far make no sense. You scum throwing shitty cases around and trying to discredit strong players?
The moment after Oats makes this illogical statement, he tries to get everyone to not think about it:
On February 25 2013 11:26 Oatsmaster wrote:
Anyway its pointless to pursue this further on this point, I dont think its a very strong scumtell for marv, but it isnt a towntell. Which makes me suspicous.
Also hapa get in the game, thrawn and marv just beat you to the exact same point.
And when he gets challenged on the point, he tries to throw the discussion elsewhere:
On February 25 2013 11:50 Oatsmaster wrote:
Thrawn I didnt say it wasnt a scumtell, I said it wasnt a strong scumtell.
Anyway stop discussing Marv, its getting nowhere.
Acro do you have any reads?
He's trying to dodge the fact that he made an illogical argument. To me, that is a strong scum tell. He refuses to elaborate on why Marv playing like his town meta makes him scummy because he knows it is a bad argument. Why would scum try to avoid this? They need to make up arguments that are not true so that the town will not vote them off. Why would he make this silly argument in the first place if he wasn't scum? Why would he not own up to his mistake and take the blame for a bad argument and instead try to sidestep it? These are the questions I would love to see Oats answer.
On a final note, Sylencia's play seems a lot like his scum game from NMM XXXIV. He seems perfectly content with hiding in the shadows and letting everyone else destroy each other and not have to do any scumhunting himself.
If I had to choose who to duel right now, it would be Hapa and Oats. Sylencia would be a close third. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.
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On February 26 2013 06:12 Alderan wrote:
Ok guys, I'm here. Thought I was getting back from vacation the night of the 24th but only getting back today due to some travel issues. Sorry for the inactivity, that shouldn't be an accurate representation of my play going forward. Having lurkers sucks so I'm going to try and get my ideas out about as many topics as quickly as possible, and if you have any specific questions for me let me know. Im in the library for the next our and a half or so, should be enough time to get something going.
Hello!
Being a bit late to the party, there are things that we all might have missed in the heat of the moment. Is there anything that you have found from the pervious discussion that you want to point out or that you want to discuss more?
If you had to have two people duel each other right now, who would it be and why?
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On February 26 2013 06:57 Acrofales wrote:
@Cora and Zarepath: you just got out of a game mislynching Sylencia. Nevertheless, you both seem quite convinced he's scum. What puts his play apart from his early play in NMM 37?
Good question. The main factor is that he's done nothing to change his town play. If he was town, he would be trying to learn from his mistakes and avoid being mislynched again. He would be a lot more proactive in his playstyle than if he were scum. He's just trying to take advantage of the fact that we have been at our throats and has decide to take a step back and lurked. When WB, Mocsta, and I were at each other's throats last game, Sylencia came in and at least made an interjection about the possibilities of WB's claim. Here, he's made little contribution towards the discussion, and has already tried to get me emotionally charged at him and make a distraction.
@Syl: I lynched you last game for not having reads...care to share some thoughts now?
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@Acro: I wouldn't count Sylencia as a newbie anymore. He's played at least 5-6 games on TL (most likely a few more than that). You shouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt over anything. If he hasn't learned to not lurk as town by this point, I'm seriously doubting that he is town.
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On February 26 2013 07:59 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 07:55 iamperfection wrote:On February 26 2013 06:07 zarepath wrote:I'm going to be mostly AFK for the rest of the Night so here are some reads/suspicions for the moment. HapaThe very first thing he does is claim town, which I really dislike. Proposes a policy. Suggests that all Cora wants to do is call Sylencia a dick... stoking the flames The 180 on iamp with not a lot of justification In the end he makes a fairly good defense (last post in his filter). The iamp 180 does look awful, but I can see the reasoning behind it. OatsSuper spastic. Tons of questions. The other game I've played with Oats, this is how he played Day 1 in order to get information/discussion flowing. I am pretty sure that is his tactic now. But if literally zero cases or reads come out of it, his behavior is going to look scummy in retrospect. KeirathiSomebody else who soft-claimed town immediately, a thing I hate. Supposedly caught up with the thread but hasn't made his presence known in any substantial way. He needs to have opinions or something. DienosoreI feel like he is the stuffed animal of this game of mafia. He is cute and friendly and makes sweet pictures and hard to hate, but when night strikes he turns into an Agent of Evil and creepily plots our demise. Okay, so not really. His picture is potentially helpful/useful, and I like his tone, but he has really gone out of his way to talk about how friendly he is, which strikes me a little bit of Stranger In An Unmarked Van syndrome. He opts to be the nice welcoming guy to Cora when everyone else is finding excuses to hate him, and it just makes my heart swell. Then in his defense of his defense of Cora, he mentions multiple times how friendly he is. Why is he so concerned with looking friendly? Town doesn't need to worry how they look, just what they accomplish. Note that he also went out of his way to express how he is NOT good at catching scum. Why would town advertise that? Don't they want their arguments to hold sway? I want to see more of his conclusions from his mapping; undoubtedly several occur to him while he does the research. AdamWhat does Adam think about people not named Dienosore? Hard to tell. SnarfsUnless Snarfs has been mafia a million times in a row, his first line was a super annoying soft-town-claim that is not justified, in my opinion. Now that he's caught up I wonder what his other thoughts are. SylenciaI mentioned this earlier, but Sylencia looks the scummiest right now of all of the players. Others have contributed less/none, but the few things Sylencia has popped in to post fall easily under the Scum Motivated category. He has more work to do to stop looking scummy than anybody else. Just check his filter and the case makes itself. iamperfectionHis player list comment (assuming town will have the good players for some reason) sounds awful but when looked at, I can understand how it's simply just saying that there are so many good players we're bound to have at least one as town. His logic fails to account for the fact that mafia will also have good players, so it's not like town will now have it easy  . He calls someone town REALLY early in the game, which something you can usually only do with confidence when you are scum. He calls Snarfs scummy also very early in the game, then tells other people to discuss it. I think this is kind of null, but worth bringing up because it was a unique read. He goes out of his way to answer for corazon, tell him who is scum. I don't know that I can see scum acting this... forwardly. He is unforgiving in his opinions and doesn't really bend at all to town, and he just has this weird vibe. I get a sense of unique thoughts coming from this man. He gives a bunch of town reads, which is apparently something he just does. This man is a Wild Card. I think I like him. (And I can also understand how someone would be certain that he's scum and then suddenly decide he's no longer scum.) this post is scummy as fuck at the top he says these are reads and suspicions but they aren't. 1. all he does is sum up what people did with no real conclusions 2. wishy washy as fuck( sums up several players actions..ie me hapa dino kier) but then has no conclusion on those players alignments one way or the other. This is scummy because hit is a good way to look like your contributing when you are in fact not 3. says stuff that doesn't make sense. ie hapa's 180 looks awful but he can see the reasoning behind it..... (then it is not awful) anybody agree with me here?
After reading Zare's post again, I do think you have a point. I also think this post is full of ideas that have been said already. It really just looks like an unfocused list of his reads based on what others have said.
If I may be so bold Iamp, would you like to reciprocate and give me some feedback on my suspicion towards Oats?
+ Show Spoiler +On February 26 2013 06:17 cDgCorazon wrote:A few other things I would like to point out: Oats' play so far has been a bit shaky for me. I already pointed out the fact that he is being inconsistent towards Iamp and other players, but he hasn't made any clear effort to scumhunt. Most of his filter has been directing discussion and debates with others, but he hasn't brought in any clear direction with his posts. He has made several hints to him thinking players are scummy: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 20:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
Acro is also somewhat scummy, cant really pin down what it is though :/ Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 01:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Welcome to scumland Zarepath, at least in my book :D
The points where he has shown doubt and suspicion on another player (and not their arguments) have been thrown out there, but he hasn't put anything behind them. The one time where he expanded on one of these points: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I get a different feeling in this game than LIX.
He is not really stepping up here, even in LIX he didnt run for mayor until half of the first cycle was gone.
So therefore, I dont really think marv is helping town so far. So therefore he is scummy.
Acro's response basically explains how I feel about this: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 12:13 Acrofales wrote:On February 25 2013 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I get a different feeling in this game than LIX.
He is not really stepping up here, even in LIX he didnt run for mayor until half of the first cycle was gone.
So therefore, I dont really think marv is helping town so far. So therefore he is scummy.
This is completely contradictory. In LIX Marv didn't step up until later. He was town there. In this game, Marv has not stepped up in the first 4 (or so) hours of the game. Therefore Marv is scummy this game. This makes no sense to me. Oats, your reads so far make no sense. You scum throwing shitty cases around and trying to discredit strong players? The moment after Oats makes this illogical statement, he tries to get everyone to not think about it: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:26 Oatsmaster wrote:
Anyway its pointless to pursue this further on this point, I dont think its a very strong scumtell for marv, but it isnt a towntell. Which makes me suspicous.
Also hapa get in the game, thrawn and marv just beat you to the exact same point.
And when he gets challenged on the point, he tries to throw the discussion elsewhere: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:50 Oatsmaster wrote:
Thrawn I didnt say it wasnt a scumtell, I said it wasnt a strong scumtell.
Anyway stop discussing Marv, its getting nowhere.
Acro do you have any reads? He's trying to dodge the fact that he made an illogical argument. To me, that is a strong scum tell. He refuses to elaborate on why Marv playing like his town meta makes him scummy because he knows it is a bad argument. Why would scum try to avoid this? They need to make up arguments that are not true so that the town will not vote them off. Why would he make this silly argument in the first place if he wasn't scum? Why would he not own up to his mistake and take the blame for a bad argument and instead try to sidestep it? These are the questions I would love to see Oats answer.
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On February 26 2013 08:09 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 08:06 cDgCorazon wrote:On February 26 2013 07:59 iamperfection wrote:On February 26 2013 07:55 iamperfection wrote:On February 26 2013 06:07 zarepath wrote:I'm going to be mostly AFK for the rest of the Night so here are some reads/suspicions for the moment. HapaThe very first thing he does is claim town, which I really dislike. Proposes a policy. Suggests that all Cora wants to do is call Sylencia a dick... stoking the flames The 180 on iamp with not a lot of justification In the end he makes a fairly good defense (last post in his filter). The iamp 180 does look awful, but I can see the reasoning behind it. OatsSuper spastic. Tons of questions. The other game I've played with Oats, this is how he played Day 1 in order to get information/discussion flowing. I am pretty sure that is his tactic now. But if literally zero cases or reads come out of it, his behavior is going to look scummy in retrospect. KeirathiSomebody else who soft-claimed town immediately, a thing I hate. Supposedly caught up with the thread but hasn't made his presence known in any substantial way. He needs to have opinions or something. DienosoreI feel like he is the stuffed animal of this game of mafia. He is cute and friendly and makes sweet pictures and hard to hate, but when night strikes he turns into an Agent of Evil and creepily plots our demise. Okay, so not really. His picture is potentially helpful/useful, and I like his tone, but he has really gone out of his way to talk about how friendly he is, which strikes me a little bit of Stranger In An Unmarked Van syndrome. He opts to be the nice welcoming guy to Cora when everyone else is finding excuses to hate him, and it just makes my heart swell. Then in his defense of his defense of Cora, he mentions multiple times how friendly he is. Why is he so concerned with looking friendly? Town doesn't need to worry how they look, just what they accomplish. Note that he also went out of his way to express how he is NOT good at catching scum. Why would town advertise that? Don't they want their arguments to hold sway? I want to see more of his conclusions from his mapping; undoubtedly several occur to him while he does the research. AdamWhat does Adam think about people not named Dienosore? Hard to tell. SnarfsUnless Snarfs has been mafia a million times in a row, his first line was a super annoying soft-town-claim that is not justified, in my opinion. Now that he's caught up I wonder what his other thoughts are. SylenciaI mentioned this earlier, but Sylencia looks the scummiest right now of all of the players. Others have contributed less/none, but the few things Sylencia has popped in to post fall easily under the Scum Motivated category. He has more work to do to stop looking scummy than anybody else. Just check his filter and the case makes itself. iamperfectionHis player list comment (assuming town will have the good players for some reason) sounds awful but when looked at, I can understand how it's simply just saying that there are so many good players we're bound to have at least one as town. His logic fails to account for the fact that mafia will also have good players, so it's not like town will now have it easy . He calls someone town REALLY early in the game, which something you can usually only do with confidence when you are scum. He calls Snarfs scummy also very early in the game, then tells other people to discuss it. I think this is kind of null, but worth bringing up because it was a unique read. He goes out of his way to answer for corazon, tell him who is scum. I don't know that I can see scum acting this... forwardly. He is unforgiving in his opinions and doesn't really bend at all to town, and he just has this weird vibe. I get a sense of unique thoughts coming from this man. He gives a bunch of town reads, which is apparently something he just does. This man is a Wild Card. I think I like him. (And I can also understand how someone would be certain that he's scum and then suddenly decide he's no longer scum.) this post is scummy as fuck at the top he says these are reads and suspicions but they aren't. 1. all he does is sum up what people did with no real conclusions 2. wishy washy as fuck( sums up several players actions..ie me hapa dino kier) but then has no conclusion on those players alignments one way or the other. This is scummy because hit is a good way to look like your contributing when you are in fact not 3. says stuff that doesn't make sense. ie hapa's 180 looks awful but he can see the reasoning behind it..... (then it is not awful) anybody agree with me here? After reading Zare's post again, I do think you have a point. I also think this post is full of ideas that have been said already. It really just looks like an unfocused list of his reads based on what others have said. If I may be so bold Iamp, would you like to reciprocate and give me some feedback on my suspicion towards Oats? + Show Spoiler +On February 26 2013 06:17 cDgCorazon wrote:A few other things I would like to point out: Oats' play so far has been a bit shaky for me. I already pointed out the fact that he is being inconsistent towards Iamp and other players, but he hasn't made any clear effort to scumhunt. Most of his filter has been directing discussion and debates with others, but he hasn't brought in any clear direction with his posts. He has made several hints to him thinking players are scummy: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 20:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
Acro is also somewhat scummy, cant really pin down what it is though :/ Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 01:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Welcome to scumland Zarepath, at least in my book :D
The points where he has shown doubt and suspicion on another player (and not their arguments) have been thrown out there, but he hasn't put anything behind them. The one time where he expanded on one of these points: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I get a different feeling in this game than LIX.
He is not really stepping up here, even in LIX he didnt run for mayor until half of the first cycle was gone.
So therefore, I dont really think marv is helping town so far. So therefore he is scummy.
Acro's response basically explains how I feel about this: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 12:13 Acrofales wrote:On February 25 2013 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I get a different feeling in this game than LIX.
He is not really stepping up here, even in LIX he didnt run for mayor until half of the first cycle was gone.
So therefore, I dont really think marv is helping town so far. So therefore he is scummy.
This is completely contradictory. In LIX Marv didn't step up until later. He was town there. In this game, Marv has not stepped up in the first 4 (or so) hours of the game. Therefore Marv is scummy this game. This makes no sense to me. Oats, your reads so far make no sense. You scum throwing shitty cases around and trying to discredit strong players? The moment after Oats makes this illogical statement, he tries to get everyone to not think about it: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:26 Oatsmaster wrote:
Anyway its pointless to pursue this further on this point, I dont think its a very strong scumtell for marv, but it isnt a towntell. Which makes me suspicous.
Also hapa get in the game, thrawn and marv just beat you to the exact same point.
And when he gets challenged on the point, he tries to throw the discussion elsewhere: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:50 Oatsmaster wrote:
Thrawn I didnt say it wasnt a scumtell, I said it wasnt a strong scumtell.
Anyway stop discussing Marv, its getting nowhere.
Acro do you have any reads? He's trying to dodge the fact that he made an illogical argument. To me, that is a strong scum tell. He refuses to elaborate on why Marv playing like his town meta makes him scummy because he knows it is a bad argument. Why would scum try to avoid this? They need to make up arguments that are not true so that the town will not vote them off. Why would he make this silly argument in the first place if he wasn't scum? Why would he not own up to his mistake and take the blame for a bad argument and instead try to sidestep it? These are the questions I would love to see Oats answer. oats hasnt bugged me at all i think he is town
So do you feel like my points are not scum tells? Or that they are not strong enough to sway you from your current read of Oats?
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@Syl: You played the same type of game in NMM 33,34 and NMM 37. Why are you complaining that we expect people to play the same exact style when you do so every single game?
In NMM 33, you won as town because your teammates did all of the work for you (plus I was the only active scum).
In NMM 34, you won as scum because you just stood back and watched the town tear each other apart.
In NMM 37, you were lynched for the same behavior and was one of the many reasons that the town lost.
Based off of the results of the following games, this is how I would expect your game to change:
If you rolled town:
You would try to play a bigger role in the town discussion to both help the efforts of the scum hunt and to avoid getting mislynched again. The best thing you can do as town is to look pro-town. Even if you weren't on the right track when it came to your reads, everyone would see that you are putting in effort to the scumhunt and that you are trying. In other words, you would try to change your meta.
If you rolled scum:
Since your meta is the same for each game, you could just point out that you played mostly the same as town in other games. You would sit to your same old strategy of sitting back and letting the town kill each other off, just like in NMM 34.
So far, the fact that your meta has not changed is pointing more towards the latter theory than the former, which does not spell good for my read on you. If you want to prove to everyone that you are town, you need to be trying to play a better town game, which you have not shown any effort to do so thus far.
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EBWOP: Lol I mixed up the colors on the town/scum point.
I'm so stupid.
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On February 26 2013 08:54 Oatsmaster wrote:
Cora, is your scum meta the same as your first game as town meta?
I wouldn't like to think that. While I lasted a long time in my first game as scum and was killed N1 in my first game as town (both expressing that I had a pro-town vibe, whether that was true or not), I used a lot more misdirection and was a lot more aggressive in my first game as scum than I was in my first game as town.
NMM 33 was not Syl's first game. His first game was NMM 32 (which I did not read so I did not mention it).
Where are you going with this?
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On February 26 2013 09:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
My point is that regardless on how someone plays, they are not scum because their meta matches their previous town game.
They are scum because either their meta is different from their town meta in a scummy way, or similar to their scum meta.
Syl, your activity and contribution to this game has been lackluster at best, please step it up if you are town :D
First of all Oats, you said the same thing that makes Syl town made Marv scum (matching town meta = scum), which just makes it hilarious that you're backtracking on that now.
Anyways, my point is not that Syl is scum because his meta is the same as his town game. In all honesty, his performances as town have been really crap. Here's his record at mafia, copied and pasted from his profile:
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXII - Endgamed as VT
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXIII - Won as VT
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXIV - Won as Mafia Roleblocker
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXVII - Lost as VT
Themed Game Mafia - Lost as Rubick, the Grand Magus
This Town Ain't Big Enough Mafia - ???
Town Record: 1-3
Mafia Record: 1-0
My point was that in the three games that he has played with me, his town play has been very weak. It reflects in his record: 1-3. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, his lurky style is not beneficial towards town. So why does he continue to do it? That's what I do not understand. Wouldn't he be taking matters into his own hands to play better?
However, if you look at his scum play, it revolved around the same type of game as his town play. He won in his one game as scum. Why would he not do anything different if he was scum? If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?
The fact that he continues to show the lurky, useless playstyle he has always shown points towards him being scum.
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And while we are on the topic of your suspicion towards Marv, would you like to reply to this?
+ Show Spoiler +On February 26 2013 06:17 cDgCorazon wrote:A few other things I would like to point out: Oats' play so far has been a bit shaky for me. I already pointed out the fact that he is being inconsistent towards Iamp and other players, but he hasn't made any clear effort to scumhunt. Most of his filter has been directing discussion and debates with others, but he hasn't brought in any clear direction with his posts. He has made several hints to him thinking players are scummy: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 20:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
Acro is also somewhat scummy, cant really pin down what it is though :/ Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 01:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Welcome to scumland Zarepath, at least in my book :D
The points where he has shown doubt and suspicion on another player (and not their arguments) have been thrown out there, but he hasn't put anything behind them. The one time where he expanded on one of these points: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I get a different feeling in this game than LIX.
He is not really stepping up here, even in LIX he didnt run for mayor until half of the first cycle was gone.
So therefore, I dont really think marv is helping town so far. So therefore he is scummy.
Acro's response basically explains how I feel about this: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 12:13 Acrofales wrote:On February 25 2013 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I get a different feeling in this game than LIX.
He is not really stepping up here, even in LIX he didnt run for mayor until half of the first cycle was gone.
So therefore, I dont really think marv is helping town so far. So therefore he is scummy.
This is completely contradictory. In LIX Marv didn't step up until later. He was town there. In this game, Marv has not stepped up in the first 4 (or so) hours of the game. Therefore Marv is scummy this game. This makes no sense to me. Oats, your reads so far make no sense. You scum throwing shitty cases around and trying to discredit strong players? The moment after Oats makes this illogical statement, he tries to get everyone to not think about it: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:26 Oatsmaster wrote:
Anyway its pointless to pursue this further on this point, I dont think its a very strong scumtell for marv, but it isnt a towntell. Which makes me suspicous.
Also hapa get in the game, thrawn and marv just beat you to the exact same point.
And when he gets challenged on the point, he tries to throw the discussion elsewhere: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 11:50 Oatsmaster wrote:
Thrawn I didnt say it wasnt a scumtell, I said it wasnt a strong scumtell.
Anyway stop discussing Marv, its getting nowhere.
Acro do you have any reads? He's trying to dodge the fact that he made an illogical argument. To me, that is a strong scum tell. He refuses to elaborate on why Marv playing like his town meta makes him scummy because he knows it is a bad argument. Why would scum try to avoid this? They need to make up arguments that are not true so that the town will not vote them off. Why would he make this silly argument in the first place if he wasn't scum? Why would he not own up to his mistake and take the blame for a bad argument and instead try to sidestep it? These are the questions I would love to see Oats answer.
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On February 26 2013 09:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
Win rate has nothing to do with how good a player you are.
I refused to elaborate because it was too early to actually talk about it, I needed more posts from marv to solidify that read as either town or scum.
Why did you only ask to change the subject when the fallacy in your logic was discovered? Why have most of your reads been only suspicions and nothing concrete? Come on, you know that that was not my whole argument. Are you trying to dodge again?
You need to answer the core of my argument, not just the outside of it.
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On February 26 2013 09:38 Oatsmaster wrote:
What is the core of your argument, it looks to me like it was my backing down off marv in a suspicious way, in your eyes.
Another part of my argument was the fact that you called some people scum or said you have suspicion of them and then did not elaborate on it (Acro, Zare).
"Not having anything else to say" or "I need Marv to post more to get a better read" would've been a better way of saying it. The fact that you say it now instead of when you were pressured for it is scummy but you obviously have no choice here, so I won't hold it against you.
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I don't mean to change the topic but I'm looking through the last couple of pages and saw that everyone was considering having Thrawn duel. I looked back at his filter and through the arguments against him, and I see the merit in them.
I know I have been a hipster with a few of my scum reads (Syl, Oats), and I also know that if I want to get any of my reads pushed out to the forefront, part of that requires listening to others' reads as well.
I would support a Thrawn duel, but I also think that whoever we select to duel should be allowed to select their opponent in the duel. I think this would make it so we would prevent confirmation bias and allow for Thrawn's (or whoever we choose to duel) voice to still be heard even though he/they is/are on the chopping block. Does anyone else have a problem with that?
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On February 26 2013 11:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
why Cora? So they can choose lynchbait and get themselves off that way?
If they do that we will all know they chose lynchbait and it will make them look even scummier.
If you want to ask your top two scumreads to duel, go ahead. Remember that they have to pull the trigger and if they don't, we can't lynch them. That's the dilemma provided to us by the set-up.
It's all just set-up speculation. None of us know how this process is going to go. I feel like there is no fair way to go about this whole "dueling" thing, but forcing one person to duel and letting them choose the other seems like the fairest way to go about things.
Of course if you don't want to do it fairly you need to convince the town on two scum reads, which seems a lot harder than what I proposed. Do you have any alternatives?
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EPT
